Survivor (Big) Survivor: Starhome

[Duskfall98]

ya know I said I was locking my vote earlier cuz I dont feel great and trying to decipher some of these messages when I havent played the game in like months is literally giving me a headache. But based on my skim I liked alot of your guys' answers to voopers questions (great questions btw). And also kind of related but I was thinking about it tommy and you kind of have a point, for me personally I easily vote any of torin, clouds, zach if they make ftc. Its easy to say you should have gotten all of them out starting f8 but the honest truth is I have no clue what the game was like at that point, its all just hearsay. If this game was truly about figuring out who played the best I probably shouldnt have a vote in first place Im literally just guessing and talking to like half the jurors only since we dont have a place to discuss in the main server.

apricity rssp1

You didn't give them a jurors channel? What is the point in having all these long speeches even?

 

[Psypsypsypsypsythe]

we did have a jury channel! its just closed right now

ALSO DO I REALLY ALWAYS START WITH THE D KEY

 

[Duskfall98]

Feel like no jury channel currently is a humongous flaw in this game tbh, especially if you want to run f4 because it's obvious that vote splits are a huge problem that people will need to consider and discuss who the front runners are

 

[Pidge]

just make a rogue server, invite everyone, and discuss the vote at the last hour, just like old times :cate:

 

[Duskfall98]

Yea I think this is boiling down rn for me on whether I value someone having more, stronger cards in their hand and playing them in a sub optimal order or someone who had less, weaker cards but they were played better

if that last paragraph is directed towards me I hope you know I don’t think this one bit

this is genuinely an extremely competitive FTC and you all are amazing ppl and players

I appreciate you giving us all our props, but I think Eli really had no actual cards to play at all. The fact that janzen has even come out and said clouds torin Zach were all people he would've voted for if they made ftc, imo, also shows that I did have threat level awareness and I did use my position to take out the top tier threats.

Edit: the other bit wasn't directed at you but it was expressed by some jurors and I think it did tie in too.

 

[Pidge]

awesome tysm esp for doing this answer basically twice

more specific question time then:

the biggest thing that turns me off from voting you right now is my perception of how your social game was with people who weren’t me (cause obv we have talked to each other a ton before). Can you name one thing you learned about each jury member as a person during this game? This can be as in-depth as you want it to be, anything from fun facts to something vague about a serious topic (I’m not expecting you to expose personal shit about people dw, this is just a question I ask on the jury a lot and find helpful)

this is such a cute question

 

[Pidge]

for jurors and finalists: if the person you want to be voted here at FTC was named Anonymous, as well as their opponents, and their game was the exact same, but their out of game reputation was completely not a factor, would they still be worthy of your vote?

this has a lot to do with the 'perceived threat' thing

 

[Duskfall98]

Hello! Although this forum is incredibly hard to read, I enjoyed reading the initial statements and a some answers to questions. After thinking and reading my decision is probably between ryo, tommy, and eli. Although, I am leaning a certain way at the moment. I want to ask the three of you what you think the best aspects of the other two people's game was. I'm looking more for how you answer, but the actual answer is still important too. I know it's late in the FTC period, but if you would like to answer I would appreciate it. Congrats on FTC!

Thanks Torin.

Tbz: I think tbz played pretty good social game, he wasn't in a strong spot on loyalists but he made the connections he wanted to get to endgame. He has told all of us, including eli now that he doesn't care about winning and reaching ftc was his goal. This actually is contrary to what he told me before because he thought he could win throughout our talk and even made plays to try win jurors votes by not voting them. I think if tbz achieved his goal with a good enough social game to make f4 but never win, then well there is not much more for me to say. Up to jury to decide if this is moral or not but just to be clear tbz always told me he was trying to win, and personally am adamantly against using people/sheep to play for my own wincon because it feels like cheating. It was not my intention for tbz to not try, but apparently he set out what he aimed to do so gg I guess.

Ryo: Ryo had a really good social game everyone he spoke to seemed to love him, he had lots of options and I think that says a lot. Had ryo had more game awareness and taken out eli and/or me, I think he probably wins at ftc and that says a lot because I have a high opinion of my own game! Ryo had the power to win based on incredible social and positioning, if he played his cards right.

For eli, obviously is it no secret I don't rate his game highly compared to what else is on offer to vote. That being said when eli was offered plays he usually took them, doing zoa vote with me was obviously a good idea even if he relied on me for a flip. That being said, I think the one thing eli had over me was probably the realisation that his name could carry him. I have argued a lot about how my gameplay exceeds his, and I stand by this. But if eli truly realised that myself or ryo having more control and he could just backseat to win on his name, then he had a better understanding of how juries work than me. Maybe I was naive in believing that I could convince the jury based on my gameplay alone.

 

[Duskfall98]

for jurors and finalists: if the person you want to be voted here at FTC was named Anonymous, as well as their opponents, and their game was the exact same, but their out of game reputation was completely not a factor, would they still be worthy of your vote?

this has a lot to do with the 'perceived threat' thing

I really do think on a level of complet neutrality where no names come into it I would win this game. I understand you must play around the pregame somewhat and it is obviously a dynamic that always existed, but it is pretty much impossible to not have someone gaining pregame votes on this ftc, regardless of how you play or who you are.

I also think that in an f4 ftc, even one or 2 friends tunneling you as a lock vote means the world, as oftentimes people will have to just vote safe to ensure "one" of their favourites wins. If someone thinks myself and eli, or myself and ryo played the best game, but eli or ryo already have a free pregame vote, then they are likely to vote ryo or eli because they are stacking numbers and making it more likely that at least one of us wins.

In this f4 I think you absolutely need someone to build the early momentum on you to put you in contention to be first or second, and then the other votes will follow. My realisation at this point is; both ryo and eli probably have a friend who is willing to do this for them, and so even if someone does think I am deserving, they probably have to make a hard choice to great a third poll and risk the vote split.

Honestly, I understand it is part of the game, and I also understand that pregames always existed and I never wanted to play to this. But I hope if someone backed ryo and eli as a friend and believed in them wholey, that at least one juror did to me. Not trying to get atey but if we are returning to pregame names then I am also a big pregame name as a THREAT, but with less people who consider me one of their best friends. I do feel like this often is something that hurts me in orgs in general, and I feel it coming again and that is hard for me not just on a gameplay level, but on a personal level.

 

[Pidge]

you should have known that the jury would view eli as the winner if he made it there. One of the only true things yall heard about me was that I mentioned Eli as one of the biggest threats, along with Clouds who the other s16ers brought up, in a vc at the very start of merge. You simply can't let that person make it to ftc if you want to win. Congrats again guys, I know I'm nitpicking your games here but that's just the nature of the job. I think any juror would be well within reason to vote for any of you three.

i know you said you unlocked your vote already, but i'm just responding to other potential Eli voters, because i feel like the biggest thing he has going for him are perceived threat and f10.

yeah perceived threat versus ACTUAL threat is a thing to consider, but it's also something that can be cleared up to the jury at FTC. so that's what Tommy and Ryo have been doing, and i can really see their point about him sorta coasting and playing the third best game. i was on every tribe with Eli, except 1. he was obviously very busy, and i really got the impression he was very carefree about this game and was not able to put himself fully into it and play it to his full potential. maybe that all changed after my elimination? i don't know for sure because I wasn’t in the game, but there is a slight hint. he literally didn't have a speech ready at the start of this FTC. we were on Survivor break for 10 days! i don't fault anyone for doing stuff IRL with family and holidays stuff, but don't use that as an excuse. 10 days is a lot to have something ready, especially for someone that has to write papers all the time for school. to me that just exemplifies how he viewed and played this game.

 

[RyoDio]

for jurors and finalists: if the person you want to be voted here at FTC was named Anonymous, as well as their opponents, and their game was the exact same, but their out of game reputation was completely not a factor, would they still be worthy of your vote?

this has a lot to do with the 'perceived threat' thing

I dont think I can answer this well because the person I want to be voted here at FTC (me) essentially did come into bigvivor as “anonymous”. I will add though that I definitely would have a major advantage if nobody knew the other two either(especially Eli)

If Eli was a new name coming into Starhome then I think it’s possible that he probably would have a threat level due to his flash game prowess, but his game wouldn’t be respected at FTC.

With Tommy honestly it could benefit him more because in an anonymous game he doesn’t misplay his cards with Eli and honestly a lot of times throughout bigvivor Tommy was metagamey even though I don’t think you can blame him much like you can’t blame Eli at FTC.

I would def be partying though if they were both anon

 

[RyoDio]

Thanks Torin.

Tbz: I think tbz played pretty good social game, he wasn't in a strong spot on loyalists but he made the connections he wanted to get to endgame. He has told all of us, including eli now that he doesn't care about winning and reaching ftc was his goal. This actually is contrary to what he told me before because he thought he could win throughout our talk and even made plays to try win jurors votes by not voting them. I think if tbz achieved his goal with a good enough social game to make f4 but never win, then well there is not much more for me to say. Up to jury to decide if this is moral or not but just to be clear tbz always told me he was trying to win, and personally am adamantly against using people/sheep to play for my own wincon because it feels like cheating. It was not my intention for tbz to not try, but apparently he set out what he aimed to do so gg I guess.

Ryo: Ryo had a really good social game everyone he spoke to seemed to love him, he had lots of options and I think that says a lot. Had ryo had more game awareness and taken out eli and/or me, I think he probably wins at ftc and that says a lot because I have a high opinion of my own game! Ryo had the power to win based on incredible social and positioning, if he played his cards right.

For eli, obviously is it no secret I don't rate his game highly compared to what else is on offer to vote. That being said when eli was offered plays he usually took them, doing zoa vote with me was obviously a good idea even if he relied on me for a flip. That being said, I think the one thing eli had over me was probably the realisation that his name could carry him. I have argued a lot about how my gameplay exceeds his, and I stand by this. But if eli truly realised that myself or ryo having more control and he could just backseat to win on his name, then he had a better understanding of how juries work than me. Maybe I was naive in believing that I could convince the jury based on my gameplay alone.

This may sound rude but Its Kind or hypocritical for you to say that abt my late game, I feel that I’ve provided great elaboration on why I made my late plays whenever asked, while you’ve struggled to gain support for shielding the challenge threat->attempting to goat him at FTC

I don’t think you’re wrong abt Eli but I definitely think your game would be less sus if he also wasn’t here(I cut my shield)

As for cutting you idt I needed to or that any juror thinks I should have so it’s unfair criticism, I don’t think anyone was telling you that you *needed* to cut me either

 

[Duskfall98]

This may sound rude but Its Kind or hypocritical for you to say that abt my late game, I feel that I’ve provided great elaboration on why I made my late plays whenever asked, while you’ve struggled to gain support for shielding the challenge threat->attempting to goat him at FTC

I don’t think you’re wrong abt Eli but I definitely think your game would be less sus if he also wasn’t here(I cut my shield)

As for cutting you idt I needed to or that any juror thinks I should have so it’s unfair criticism, I don’t think anyone was telling you that you *needed* to cut me either

Sorry I didn't mean to sound rude, I think if you cut Eli you would have won. It is jury's greatest criticism of you. I think if I cut Eli you also won which is one the main reasons I was so unwilling to cut him.

I think you believe your play was right and that's fine, but that being said I think if Zach was here instead of Eli your chances of winning boost a lot more than mine do.

 

[RyoDio]

Sorry I didn't mean to sound rude, I think if you cut Eli you would have won. It is jury's greatest criticism of you. I think if I cut Eli you also won which is one the main reasons I was so unwilling to cut him.

I think you believe your play was right and that's fine, but that being said I think if Zach was here instead of Eli your chances of winning boost a lot more than mine do.

You think I win if I cut Eli and keep torin?… that’s just not true

1. Eli was your shield not mine

2. Torin played better than Eli and we actually seem to be in the majority with that opinion

It would have been better directly for you if you cut Eli, but that’s what you’re supposed to do when in the type of partnership you were in

At f6 you should’ve been trying to cut Eli and I shouldve been trying to cut Torin that seems pretty accurate.

I agree if Zach was here I likely would’ve just outright won, but I knew Eli+Torin had the highest odds to win F5 and preferred battling Eli’s perception than Torin’s truth at this FTC

 

[Duskfall98]

You know ryo, thinking about this again I really didn't want this to come across as rude so I want to elaborate on what this means.

Obviously, I believe I played the best game here at ftc, as do you believe you did, this isn't news. That being said, the biggest criticism of my game is that eli is still here. This is what jury says is my biggest misplay, though they said similar for you. That being said, if we both take each other and not eli, only one of us truly had made the moves to win the game but subjectively and objectively.

I think it says a lot and should be taken as a compliment that while jury are telling us both that we should not have taken eli, I am telling you that in a jury without eli, I think you had the best chance of winning. Eli's argument doesn't really change and in fact worsens for me if zach is here instead, but that is not the case for you as you played very distinct games from both eli and zach, whereas my argument relies on the fact eli didn't do anything outside our dynamic and overly relied on me.

Without this argument, you probably just win and can beat me in the tbz tommy ryo zach f4. This is also one of the many reasons why I believe taking eli was the best call for me, if I am truly playing to win as f1.

 

[Duskfall98]

You think I win if I cut Eli and keep torin?… that’s just not true

1. Eli was your shield not mine

2. Torin played better than Eli and we actually seem to be in the majority with that opinion

It would have been better directly for you if you cut Eli, but that’s what you’re supposed to do when in the type of partnership you were in

At f6 you should’ve been trying to cut Eli and I shouldve been trying to cut Torin that seems pretty accurate.

I agree if Zach was here I likely would’ve just outright won, but I knew Eli+Torin had the highest odds to win F5 and preferred battling Eli’s perception than Torin’s truth at this FTC

To be clear I am assuming zach is here and not torin, if torin was here instead of eli he obviously just wins the game.

 

[RyoDio]

To be clear I am assuming zach is here and not torin, if torin was here instead of eli he obviously just wins the game.

Yeah I think torin *is* here if he survives at f6 though which people seem to not understand that much (I could elaborate on how I saw the challenge going but yeah)

 

[Duskfall98]

Yeah I think torin *is* here if he survives at f6 though which people seem to not understand that much (I could elaborate on how I saw the challenge going but yeah)

I don't know the whole game changes, I don't think it is fair to assume that torin wins the small percent chance of a challenge like, it is in no way guarenteed and I am not sure there is any strong basis to assume that torin wins a trivia challenge like that.

 

[RyoDio]

You know ryo, thinking about this again I really didn't want this to come across as rude so I want to elaborate on what this means.

Obviously, I believe I played the best game here at ftc, as do you believe you did, this isn't news. That being said, the biggest criticism of my game is that eli is still here. This is what jury says is my biggest misplay, though they said similar for you. That being said, if we both take each other and not eli, only one of us truly had made the moves to win the game but subjectively and objectively.

I think it says a lot and should be taken as a compliment that while jury are telling us both that we should not have taken eli, I am telling you that in a jury without eli, I think you had the best chance of winning. Eli's argument doesn't really change and in fact worsens for me if zach is here instead, but that is not the case for you as you played very distinct games from both eli and zach, whereas my argument relies on the fact eli didn't do anything outside our dynamic and overly relied on me.

Without this argument, you probably just win and can beat me in the tbz tommy ryo zach f4. This is also one of the many reasons why I believe taking eli was the best call for me, if I am truly playing to win as f1.

You phrased this really well imo, I will say getting yourself into that position is really unfortunate from someone with as much power throughout merge you claimed to have.

I ofc understand the merit of hoping to expose Eli at FTC and I made a similar decision when I chose to take out Torin

 

[Duskfall98]

Not saying I think torin would lose immunity - I just don't believe it is set in stone like you seem to believe, though I do accept that it is your belief regardless of if it is true or not. Realistically we will never know if torin would win final immunity.

 

[Duskfall98]

You phrased this really well imo, I will say getting yourself into that position is really unfortunate from someone with as much power throughout merge you claimed to have.

I ofc understand the merit of hoping to expose Eli at FTC and I made a similar decision when I chose to take out Torin

Thanks I genuinely meant it as a good thing lmao. That being said while you are comparing eli to me as torin is to you, I assume we can both agree that torin played the merge far better than eli did?

 

[RyoDio]

I don't know the whole game changes, I don't think it is fair to assume that torin wins the small percent chance of a challenge like, it is in no way guarenteed and I am not sure there is any strong basis to assume that torin wins a trivia challenge like that.

You purposely sit out of challenges, TBZ and I are idiots LOL, and then the one thing I didn’t foresee was that Zach managed to be even slower than me and TBZ.

my decision at f6 was weighed on me vividly imagining Torin winning the trivia challenge just like I did for Eli.

It’s unfair to say “well nobody couldve known that” when in the short time I’ve *known* torin I could tell hed be really great at that type of challenge. Iirc I told you torin had a good shot at winning f5 as well

 

[RyoDio]

Thanks I genuinely meant it as a good thing lmao. That being said while you are comparing eli to me as torin is to you, I assume we can both agree that torin played the merge far better than eli did?

Yes we both do but we also believe we played the merge far better than Eli did yet Eli I still seems to be the favorite (that being said he seems to be less of the favorite the more questioning ensues)

 

[Duskfall98]

Don't really want to go back forward on if torin would win f5 because it's redundant, I do think he had a good choice but obviously no one knows.

That being said the only reason I didn't try for final immunity was I felt anyone but Eli winning damaged my game except myself. I felt like I could obliterate him in ftc at time based on his gameplay compared to mine. Had it been torin instead with a chance to just win ftc (as perceived) at the time, I obviously would have competed. Not that I'm saying I would have won or been a favourite, but an extra number comepeting is obviously big.

 

[Duskfall98]

So I just had a thought, and idk if this is going to go down well or not but it is on the topic of perception so here we go: who were people worried about at f8 and just how much were people concerned about eli directly:

1) Torin felt he was the best in the game and felt he could beat eli or anyone, according to his final words

2) Clouds knew he was number one threat and priority vote out, I am going to assume he felt he could beat eli

3) Obviously I felt I could beat eli

4) Ryo felt like he could beat eli, though he wanted him out it was a secondary wish

5) Tbz also had eli as secondary preferring clouds and torin, he spoke to me about trying and beleiving he could pull votes in my ideal f4 and have a chance. Although he didn't actually contest this ftc, at the time he seemed to believe he could beat eli.

6) I am not sure zach believes he could beat eli, but clearly some jurors believe he had a shot, for example janzen said he would have vote him or brandon if he was here now instead of eli. I am not quite sure what zach's perception was but considering he actually could beat eli, I am going to give a half point.

7) Psy, I don't know how he felt honestly so I will say maybe he didn't think he could beat eli, though that could be wrong but for benefit of the doubt I will say he saw eli as a threat to be fair.

That being said, some people in the game at f8 may have seen eli as a bigger threat than others, perhaps ryo or me or tbz, but 5.5/7 people believed they could either beat him or had an actual good shot of beating him regardless of his overinflating threat level on jury.

So to end this comment I will say; I don't think eli was really a priority boot beyond people worrying he is against them, or seemingly an easy vote who couldn't defend themself. For the most part everyone perceived that they, if push came to shove, could beat eli. Of course you can call people dumb or whatever for their perception, but this is the truth of people's feelings in game at f8 I believe. If I am wrong about anything here, feel free to correct me.