NOC Bigvivor Mafia Game Thread Day 5

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Texas Cloverleaf Kind of curious on your read on me. IMO from what we’ve played together you always seem to… get me. But you’re walking out of this read saying I’m mainly NAI off of Day 1 and that’s it? I don’t think I’ve ever been described like that by you before

I guess I’m not gonna ask you for your meta tells or whatever but can I get more on this?

That's the weird thing for me like I've been unconsciously sorting you as town in my head just based on general thread interaction but when I actually looked back and read your posts the things I had been reading that sorted you that way didn't actually town spew the way I'd been sorting them, had to reevaluate my position on you and right now I'm not really sure where you stand.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

If you’re interested in solving this look for potential agenda (or absence of agenda) aka - why this is happening and why is it the focal point of thread compared to other things

a bit lost and frankly would rather try to hit in my other scumreads. will read this more when it’s not 5 am but just quickly bc it’s possible I will wake up to hammer

-texas tone good rn, content a little wack and it’s very easy to see him as town usually when he posts so if he slumps again it’s not good. Claim is not clearing but super unlikely to be S/S with Haruno
-Haruno might just be town regardless since nobody’s really paying attention to him during this? Like why is the focal point Texas rn. Can anyone involved talk about their read on Haruno? Celever Texas Cloverleaf M2H UncleSam
-celever good volume and active, but currently a bit lost on some progression things that I want answers to
-not super following why the reacted push is m2h atm, convince me? Esp since it’s not like he was the only one on Texas. Only hang up against M2H is they’re feeling nervous in reaction to this which matches their energy when I last played scum w them. But thread turned on him so quickly and his biggest defense is in his heroes… unclesam and laurel LOL so yeah anyway. Can’t meta run the game I wanted to rn but forgive me for being on mobile just one time ig

short version is haruno spent the large majority of his iso talking about setup spec, then tried to use his role to get town credit where i have my own role knowledge that confirms his claim, and where i dont see worlds where he acts the way he did in regards to his role as 3p/scum, just doesnt make sense to have gone about it in the fashion he did of suspecting the partner could be a 3p, i think he's just town

m2h has been continually pushing me for very bad reasons, continually building a push over inactivity across day 1 then trying to seriously push a lynch on me for inactivity again several hours before the period i'd precommitted time to this game. they've been trying to push a mislynch on me since day 1 and i think they're doing it because they're scum trying to get out someone they know can be a threat

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Vote Sificon

i want m2h dead tomorrow

 

[Celever]

did you see my post on why celever scum slipped by voting me instead of texas? I called him out and he instantly changed.

He basically said that i slipped and called texas mafia rolecop but then voted me…. Was super weird so i do agree with unclesam that i see these two as a pair. That doesn’t mean sam isn’t mafia -i doubt it if texas/celever both are.

I hope you don't believe this

 

[Celever]

Celever After Texas walked into the game, what’s your current read on Haruno?

Haruno has been much solvier and useful today. They had a bad D1 but independent of Texas etc. they have contributed more. Certainly their emphasis has been on their role thing, but outside of that they have had a reasonably town mindset

My holdup is whether or not trying to solve their role actually is a town mindset. They've claimed that they're a vt once they open a mason chat with Texas. I don't see why their top priority is opening that mason chat as town as a result. It's certainly more fun for them to have it, but not to the extent of pubclaiming for no reason and having a significant degree of pressure applied to them. TBQH I'm not sure I buy Haruno that they don't have a locked ability, but that's somewhat unnecessary speculation. It prob comes out to NAI but I'm still cautious

I also don't really understand Texas' analysis of Haruno that led him to think they were towny on D1 but that's not disagreeing with it, I just don't understand it. But I think Texas is town so :shrug:

 

[UncleSam]

Uh two things
1. No I am not going to post a full reads list where half of my takes are 'literally don't remember a post by this person'. I've posted reads on every active player I'm pretty sure but if you're in the dark on my take on anybody feel free to ask me about that player
2. I'm probably mostly inactive until the end of the day because I have work and a thing after work

It's wild to me that Celever and Texas have been hard buddied this entire day and Celever still has the gall to claim it is a 'fabrication' to say so. Outside of that observation I'm kinda just praying scum kills me tonight because I'm nearly certain 2/3 of the remaining villagers are AFK AF and unlikely to get less so. Probably one or two idle scum in the group of ten who are barely posting as well, though my impression is that there's a lot of bad pushes and buddying happening amongst the actives so it's fine to focus on that group for now.

- Friendly hydra

 

[UncleSam]

Oh and Haruno I think is the most likely to be town of the Texas / Haruno / Celever / Caffeine buddying group. I am a bit sus on the whole 'T/S twin pair' idea though, I think it a lot more likely they're same alignment and we need to figure out what that alignment is. I think in any situation where there is one T and one S in the pair, however, NOC GOAT Haruno is the T.

- Friendly hydra

 

[Celever]

Celever Approximately what was the point when you started scumreading M2H? Can you rerun your progression to me as far as you remember? You townleaned him earlier but I feel like when Texas started voting M2H you shifted towards making your suspicions more clear. Like were you sold by the case?

It was kind of a steady regression in town cred I guess? I said early D2 that I felt M2H was scummiest of the active posters and IIRC was the only one noted as a townlean in that readslist I made, and that was before M2H backed up Sam's terrible case (though M2H says the sequencing is wrong on that and I'll read into that at some point). I still see M2H's push on Texas as opportunistic but they've explained it was more so meta-based? Which I still think is opportunistic regardless of that bc Texas literally stated they didn't have much time to invest and I feel like that's a statement that should be taken at face value. Reading the first few pages, it also does look like M2H was trying to pocket Caffeine somewhat, which I note M2H hasn't defended since no one prompted him.

M2H is a valid shot if we wanted to take out one of the more active players and he provides us with a lot of information, so I was happy to go for that wagon. I stand by that it's a valid option moving forward. But also we all knew Sificon died today so going for other pushes for pressure was about the most useful thing we could do. That Whydon push is my favourite thing to happen so far.

 

[Celever]

Uh two things
1. No I am not going to post a full reads list where half of my takes are 'literally don't remember a post by this person'. I've posted reads on every active player I'm pretty sure but if you're in the dark on my take on anybody feel free to ask me about that player
2. I'm probably mostly inactive until the end of the day because I have work and a thing after work

It's wild to me that Celever and Texas have been hard buddied this entire day and Celever still has the gall to claim it is a 'fabrication' to say so. Outside of that observation I'm kinda just praying scum kills me tonight because I'm nearly certain 2/3 of the remaining villagers are AFK AF and unlikely to get less so. Probably one or two idle scum in the group of ten who are barely posting as well, though my impression is that there's a lot of bad pushes and buddying happening amongst the actives so it's fine to focus on that group for now.

- Friendly hydra

I don't believe that you don't understand temporality. It was a fabrication at the time because no buddying had ever happened. Once Texas arrived we buddied bc we were both here, Texas feels like town, and Texas thinks I'm town. Your case was still absolute BS, however.

 

[Celever]

Uh two things
1. No I am not going to post a full reads list where half of my takes are 'literally don't remember a post by this person'. I've posted reads on every active player I'm pretty sure but if you're in the dark on my take on anybody feel free to ask me about that player
2. I'm probably mostly inactive until the end of the day because I have work and a thing after work

It's wild to me that Celever and Texas have been hard buddied this entire day and Celever still has the gall to claim it is a 'fabrication' to say so. Outside of that observation I'm kinda just praying scum kills me tonight because I'm nearly certain 2/3 of the remaining villagers are AFK AF and unlikely to get less so. Probably one or two idle scum in the group of ten who are barely posting as well, though my impression is that there's a lot of bad pushes and buddying happening amongst the actives so it's fine to focus on that group for now.

- Friendly hydra

Also provide reads on:

Nuxl
Caffeine
Spiderz
Clouds
Psy

These are the "towncore" players (pseudo-towncore, sorta just spewed towncore) who I don't recall your position on.

Also provide reads on:

Dyo
Dave
DLE
Vizh

These are the players with most widespread vote equity moving into D3 I think. DLE is acc townread by a few people and scumread by a few others.

 

[Celever]

Tho it kinda feels like Texas S -> Celever S agenda wise where as Celever S doesn’t necessarily mean Texas S

no clue what to make of the ppl standing behind M2H though that feels completely independent

I want to add onto this that having slept on it, I think the M2H wagon is less appealing due to the possibility of it being T/S. If it's T/S, I think Sam is the scum. Provided M2H's sequencing of events is correct, Sam hopped on M2H's bad push instead, and ultimately I think the primary scumtell from this is who was being opportunistic.

 

[realiti]

Also provide reads on:

Nuxl
Caffeine
Spiderz
Clouds
Psy

These are the "towncore" players (pseudo-towncore, sorta just spewed towncore) who I don't recall your position on.

Also provide reads on:

Dyo
Dave
DLE
Vizh

These are the players with most widespread vote equity moving into D3 I think. DLE is acc townread by a few people and scumread by a few others.

Clouds how do you do it. teach me your ways

 

[CaffeineBoost]

We're approaching EOD and I don't think I'll be around for it.

Thoughts remain unchanged. During night I'm going to look into a few things and see what I think about them (all of the buddying accusations, see if I can validate some people's thought processes, also one player's posting activity because I've got a small theory I wanna check).

While we're here, let me leave you with this thought. "omgus" looks a little bit like "amogus". I hope I have ruined this term for you all.

 

[CaffeineBoost]

I'll probably look into Clouds some more since I'm not sure where I stand on them atm.

 

[UncleSam]

Also provide reads on:

Nuxl
Caffeine
Spiderz
Clouds
Psy

These are the "towncore" players (pseudo-towncore, sorta just spewed towncore) who I don't recall your position on.

Also provide reads on:

Dyo
Dave
DLE
Vizh

These are the players with most widespread vote equity moving into D3 I think. DLE is acc townread by a few people and scumread by a few others.

Nuxl: Everyone seems to be TRing them and I kind of agree, but with caveats. I don't love that this slot hasn't seemed to be in confrontations with anybody thus far, and although I do think the content generated by this slot has been of extremely high quality, it's puzzling to me that so few people seem to want to push back on any of it. Maybe there was something I missed where Nuxl got into a spat with someone, but if so I totally missed it. Slight TR but I don't love that everyone is giving them a complete pass. Also I just realized I'm kind of a hypocrite because I also haven't pushed back on any of it because I've generally agreed with Nuxl's takes, but I just think it is odd that EVERYBODY seems to agree. Idk maybe I'm overthinking this one.
Caffeine: I already said he is in the buddying group that I think is super sus. Scum lean, less so than Celever / Texas but more than Haruno
Spiderz: I seem to recall thinking he was kinda posting bad content on D1 but...from a towny perspective? I haven't seen him do anything of note D2 but I'm pretty sure this is just a townie who had some bad takes but was trying to figure things out. I want to see a lot more out of him D3 though and the sudden drop-off in content is surprising, he kinda fell off the face of the earth.
Clouds: Haven't seen much from this person but what I've seen has seemed pretty opportunistic. Slight scum lean but more in the null category pending more information.
Psy: Second most towny player after M2H. Wish they were posting more on D2.

Dyo: I literally do not remember him posting a single thing of substance, but he has kind of been active lurking a bit? Scum lean, seems like he is trying to stay out of the limelight.
Dave: Null, he has done next to nothing, especially on D2.
DLE: I said already that I thought his D1 was scum!DLE and his D2 is town!DLE, though he hasn't posted a ton either day outside of maybe the start of D2. I'm leaning town for him for now.
Vizh: I think Vizh had some weird wording in replying to something I said earlier which Caffeine jumped on but like...very half-heartedly. I could see that being a scum pair in retrospect. I didn't think what he said in that instance was that odd but I did hate some of his play on D1 and had been mildly SRing him before that, and his somewhat-active lurking since that hubbub is super sus. The more I think about it the more I read this slot as scum, I actually think this is a great D3 push as a way to get a new angle on things outside of the me + M2H vs. you + Texas dynamic.

It is at this point in the post I realize I'm reading like 8 people as scum rn. I guess that's why this game feels so hopeless. I do think I'm at least half right in those takes but also think that getting the idlers to get back into the game is going to be key to success for town on D3 (and also that maybe I need to try to start refining who is just posting badly and who is actually scum).

Alright I'm out for the day now, if you send me more questions I'll try to respond on D3 if I'm not dead. But hopefully I'm dead so I can ignore this shitshow of a thread with a clean conscience.

- Friendly hydra

 

[Duskfall98]

link to last votecount

Day 2.3 Votecount
Sificon (11): UncleSam, shadowpea, M2H (2), RyoDio, Haruno, Celever, Da Letter El, Nuxl, Clouds, Texas Cloverleaf
Celever (1): realiti
Clouds (1): Laurel
Dyo (1): Whydon
Laurel (1): Spiderz
Spiderz (1): Ayia

Not Voting (7): CaffeineBoost, dave, Drookez, Dyo, Sificon, Vizh, Psypsypsypsypsythe

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to hammer.

 

[Duskfall98]

I think it has been hammered locking thread to double check

 

[Duskfall98]

Nvm im dumb

 

[Celever]

Nuxl: Everyone seems to be TRing them and I kind of agree, but with caveats. I don't love that this slot hasn't seemed to be in confrontations with anybody thus far, and although I do think the content generated by this slot has been of extremely high quality, it's puzzling to me that so few people seem to want to push back on any of it. Maybe there was something I missed where Nuxl got into a spat with someone, but if so I totally missed it. Slight TR but I don't love that everyone is giving them a complete pass. Also I just realized I'm kind of a hypocrite because I also haven't pushed back on any of it because I've generally agreed with Nuxl's takes, but I just think it is odd that EVERYBODY seems to agree. Idk maybe I'm overthinking this one.
Caffeine: I already said he is in the buddying group that I think is super sus. Scum lean, less so than Celever / Texas but more than Haruno
Spiderz: I seem to recall thinking he was kinda posting bad content on D1 but...from a towny perspective? I haven't seen him do anything of note D2 but I'm pretty sure this is just a townie who had some bad takes but was trying to figure things out. I want to see a lot more out of him D3 though and the sudden drop-off in content is surprising, he kinda fell off the face of the earth.
Clouds: Haven't seen much from this person but what I've seen has seemed pretty opportunistic. Slight scum lean but more in the null category pending more information.
Psy: Second most towny player after M2H. Wish they were posting more on D2.

Dyo: I literally do not remember him posting a single thing of substance, but he has kind of been active lurking a bit? Scum lean, seems like he is trying to stay out of the limelight.
Dave: Null, he has done next to nothing, especially on D2.
DLE: I said already that I thought his D1 was scum!DLE and his D2 is town!DLE, though he hasn't posted a ton either day outside of maybe the start of D2. I'm leaning town for him for now.
Vizh: I think Vizh had some weird wording in replying to something I said earlier which Caffeine jumped on but like...very half-heartedly. I could see that being a scum pair in retrospect. I didn't think what he said in that instance was that odd but I did hate some of his play on D1 and had been mildly SRing him before that, and his somewhat-active lurking since that hubbub is super sus. The more I think about it the more I read this slot as scum, I actually think this is a great D3 push as a way to get a new angle on things outside of the me + M2H vs. you + Texas dynamic.

It is at this point in the post I realize I'm reading like 8 people as scum rn. I guess that's why this game feels so hopeless. I do think I'm at least half right in those takes but also think that getting the idlers to get back into the game is going to be key to success for town on D3 (and also that maybe I need to try to start refining who is just posting badly and who is actually scum).

Alright I'm out for the day now, if you send me more questions I'll try to respond on D3 if I'm not dead. But hopefully I'm dead so I can ignore this shitshow of a thread with a clean conscience.

- Friendly hydra

Cool reads thanks

Just gonna confirm the sequencing wrt Vizh was acc M2H jumping on it and Caff piggybacking that for posterity. Means Vizh is still linked to this power war dynamic.

Which btw is kind of a dynamic crafted by Caff and if he’s scum there’s a case to be made that he turned that into a narrative in order to make 4 townies fight each other. It’s not a metanarrative and was happening, but I also don’t think it’s towny to put it in direct terms as Caff chose to do

 

[Celever]

Unvote

L-1 is bad we’ll go for 2 til we’ve reached a natural conclusion

Which granted might be rn but I’ll let Caff decide since he was afraid of hammer

 

[Haruno]

If possible I'd like to get some potential night actions out for what are potential roles we might have. Have like 40 minutes before deadline, so ideally we get this done and are able to get some results to nab some scum. ty

 

[Haruno]

Ideally from the various interested parties so we can get a clear idea of who we can give shit to later on.

Celever Laurel UncleSam CaffeineBoost Nuxl

 

[Celever]

If possible I'd like to get some potential night actions out for what are potential roles we might have. Have like 40 minutes before deadline, so ideally we get this done and are able to get some results to nab some scum. ty

According to the countdown in the OP we have 3 hours and 35 minutes. I can see that being wrong though since idk why Tommy would put deadline at midnight for himself

Ideally from the various interested parties so we can get a clear idea of who we can give shit to later on.

Celever Laurel UncleSam CaffeineBoost Nuxl

I'm not totally sure what you're asking. ATM I feel like investigative roles are pretty clear (target inactive players if it's role / alignment cop, target essentially Eli if you're a watcher / your most inactive scumread if you're a tracker since they get the faction kill)

The more we discuss the more the scum can work around right?

 

[Laurel]

ratio vote laurel

Gotem

 

[Laurel]

I have a suspicion that the mafia is heavily a combination of experienced players. bleh

Like nuxl/texas/celever/sam all mafia

i wish i could see texas flip.. would give me a very good

i also don’t have good vibes from shadowpea

I mean maybe texas is town and that spot is just DLE and celever is buddying a town texas for town cred?

then mafia is like nuxl/celever/sam/shadowpea