Blaziken [4F]'+

[Erazor]

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/blaziken

[SET]
name: Mixed (Priority) Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Vacuum Wave / Stone Edge
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild / Rash
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is designed to take advantage of Blaziken's great offensive stats and break down most of the walls in UU. The strategy is simple - send Blaziken in on a support move or a weak attack, such as Spiritomb's Will-O-Wisp or Stealth Rock from Registeel or Steelix. After this, proceed to hit the inevitable switch-in with Fire Blast or Hidden Power, and then finish them off with Superpower, or Vacuum Wave if they outspeed Blaziken.</p>

<p>Fire Blast will be your main attack, and Hidden Power is for the common Water-type switch-ins. Both Hidden Powers get the important 2HKO on bulky waters like Slowbro and Milotic, who fall to a Fire Blast followed by Hidden Power, and Superpower followed by Hidden power respectively (Milotic has a very small chance of survival with the most defensive EV spread), as long as Stealth Rock is in play. Other walls such as Registeel and Regice are dispatched by any of Blaziken's STAB attacks, and Chansey is easily OHKOed by Superpower, which lets another special sweeper dominate. Vacuum Wave helps Blaziken become a fairly decent revenge killer as well, nearly OHKOing dangerous Pokemon such as Omastar and Kabutops (if it does not carry Aqua Jet) in the rain.</p>

<p>Another option is to put Stone Edge over Vacuum Wave to hit Altaria, who is the only Pokemon who can safely switch into this set. Vacuum Wave is generally a better choice though, taking into account Blaziken's mediocre Speed and Vacuum Wave's revenge killing power.</p>

<p>With these EVs, Blaziken manages to outspeed quite a few threats, notably Absol, and ties with other neutral-natured base Speed 80 Pokemon. Special attack is maxed so that Fire Blast deals as much damage as possible, and Chansey is still OHKOed by Superpower. It should be noted that this EV spread does not allow you to KO Milotic with a combination of Superpower + Hidden power, though.</p>

<p>A perfectly viable alternate EV spread of 240 Atk/252 SpA/16 Spe is also recommended for this set. Blaziken becomes one of the best stall breakers in UU with this spread, as it can OHKO or 2HKO almost every Pokemon in UU. The speed EVs let you outspeed minimum speed Milotic, who would otherwise counter Blaziken very well, while giving you a higher chance of taking it out with Superpower followed by a super effective Hidden Power. Some bulky waters like Gastrodon and Omastar fall to a Fire Blast followed by Superpower, and the standard Lanturn is now OHKOed by Superpower assuming Stealth Rock is in play. Note that this spread is better used with Hidden Power Electric. Using this slower EV spread will net you more clean OHKOs against stall teams in case you can't accumulate residual damage, at the cost of being revenge killed by a couple of extra threats that fall in Blaziken's speed tier. Blaziken is one of few Pokemon that can pull off a power for speed trade, so either spread will benefit your team greatly.</p>

<p>The choice of nature does not affect the set too much; it depends on your preference. Mild is suggested for the sole reason that Blaziken makes a very good Spiritomb and Houndoom switch-in. Rash helps you live through other priority users' attacks, such as Arcanine, Hitmontop, or Ambipom. Either of the natures is perfectly fine.</p>

<p>This Blaziken is a great Pokemon to break your opponent's walls such as Registeel, Chansey, and Slowbro, who may cause significant trouble for your sweepers. Mismagius and Espeon make great teammates for Blaziken, because with Registeel and Chansey out of the way they can set up a couple of Calm Minds and sweep the opponent's team. Pokemon such as Swords Dance Drapion can take advantage of a possible Steelix or Regirock kill as well, as they are its major counters.Azumarill is a good choice with Blaziken too, because with Slowbro out of the way, Azumarill can sweep more effectively.</p>

<p>Defensively, Roserade is a great Pokemon to use alongside Blaziken, as it can take the Water-type attacks aimed at Blaziken, while dealing with the bulky Water-types that Blaziken may have trouble with. It is also recommended that you carry an Ice-type attack on your team when you use Blaziken, because Altaria severely hinders Blaziken's wall breaking power, as it walls the entire set. Stealth Rock is also needed to take advantage of this set. Someone to take Ground-type attacks is appreciated as well, so Mismagius makes a nice partner. It also combines well with Blaziken offensively, as Blaziken blows through Registeel, one of Mismagius's best counters. Espeon can eliminate Hariyama, who may otherwise give Blaziken problems with Thick Fat and great bulk.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Rash
evs: 192 Atk / 252 SpA / 64 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>An oft-heard complaint about Blaziken is that while it hits hard, it lacks the speed to actually sweep. This is remedied by utilizing Agility to take Blaziken's speed to a whole new level, and is one of its best shots at sweeping.</p>

<p>Fire Blast will be your main sweeping attack, and it really leaves its mark coming off of base 110 Special Attack. Superpower deals with what Fire Blast cannot, and the drops in attack are not very important as you should be sweeping primarily with special moves. Finally, Hidden Power Electric is used for coverage against bulky waters and Flying types. Most importantly, it allows you to beat Moltres if Stealth Rock is up.</p>

<p>Naturally, Blaziken draws out its counters, but what is remarkable about Blaziken is that it can actually beat its counters before setting up its sweep. The EVs reflect this, allowing you to KO Milotic with Hidden Power followed by Superpower, assuming Stealth Rock in play. Maximum Special Attack allows Fire Blast to outright annihilate most things that do not resist it. 64 Speed EVs outspeeds Adamant Torterra before an Agility and Choice Scarf base 90s such as Roserade and Moltres after an Agility.</p>

<p>The item choice is slightly tricky. Life Orb is preferred because of the damage output against neutrally-hit Pokemon such as Hariyama, but Expert Belt lets you bluff a Choice Scarf or Choice Specs set before you use Agility, and you take no recoil damage. A Rash nature is used over Mild because this set needs as much protection against priority attacks as possible.</p>

<p>This set works a lot like the previous set, but without priority; instead, it increases its Speed. Since this variant of Blaziken is a stand-alone sweeper (as in it breaks walls for itself), this set only has trouble with Pokemon like Altaria, Slowking, and Hariyama, who wall this set with their resistances and bulkiness. A Pokemon who can deal with Altaria is a must. Someone like Scarf Glaceon, Rock Polish Torterra, or Rhydon do well in this regard. Stealth Rock also helps, taking away 25% from Altaria every time it switches in. Honchkrow makes a perfect partner with Blaziken as well, beating Hariyama with its STAB Drill Peck, trapping Slowking with its STAB Pursuit, and getting free switches on Earthquakes aimed at Blaziken. Even though this set functions fine without any other boosts, it can benefit greatly from Calm Mind boosts from Espeon, who can Baton Pass to Blaziken on any Bug or Dark-type attack aimed at Espeon.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Focus Blast / Focus Punch
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Vacuum Wave
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Blaziken can forgo wall breaking for a Specs set, and it uses it efficiently. The most attractive thing about this set is that you have a very powerful priority move in Vacuum Wave. This allows Blaziken to function as a late game priority sweeper, and even though it doesn't have Technician, it has a very respectable Special Attack stat to work off.</p>

<p>Focus Blast always gets the 2HKO on Milotic and Chansey, and Blissey in OU, as well as the OHKO on Clefable, and is a very powerful secondary STAB attack. The 70% accuracy is a bit of a turn off, though, so Focus Punch is also an option. Focus Punch always gets an OHKO on Chansey and Clefable, even with a hindering nature.</p>

<p>There are other options for the Hidden Power slot with this set, such as Hidden Power Rock, which hits Moltres and Charizard, who are otherwise some of the safest switch-ins to this set. Hidden Power Ice can be used if you find Altaria (another safe switch-in to this set) walling you too often, since Blaziken's Fire Blast has a very good (97%) chance to 2HKO Slowbro with Stealth Rock up anyway. Using those Hidden Power types means you need to rely on Focus Blast's 70% accuracy to take out Milotic in two hits, though.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Choice
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Superpower
move 3: ThunderPunch
move 4: Stone Edge / Blaze Kick
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Blaziken can be a powerful sweeper with its superior Attack stat and movepool. With two 120 base power STAB attacks coming off a base 120 Attack stat, many Pokemon will think twice before switching into this monster. ThunderPunch is an excellent move for Blaziken on this set, as a Choice Band boosted ThunderPunch always 2HKOs Milotic, which is one of the safer switch-ins to the other sets. The sheer power of a Choice Band boosted Flare Blitz can OHKO a good portion of the metagame on its own, such as Crobat. It also 2HKOs most defensive Pokemon as well. Altaria, who would otherwise commonly switch in to any of the other sets, is 2HKOed with Stealth Rock in play, and a predicted Stone Edge will even OHKO the poor dragon. The main disadvantage of using this set, however, is that Slowbro can switch into it all day, with ThunderPunch barely missing out on the 2HKO.</p>

<p>With a Choice Scarf, Blaziken is a more powerful revenge killer than the mixed set, but it will not last as long due to recoil and may be set up on by a physically defensive Pokemon.</p>

<p>The reason Blaze Kick is an option on this set is because Flare Blitz comes with a price, recoil. However, Blaziken can use this recoil to its advantage and sweep teams late game with a Blaze boosted Blaze Kick, which has a nice 127.5 base power after Blaze is activated.</p>

<p>This Blaziken variant takes out many of the Pokemon that the Life Orb and Choice Specs sets cannot, such as Altaria, but gets walled by Pokemon such as Slowbro. As such, Blaziken benefits from a Pokemon who can easily switch in on Slowbro and threaten the opponent's team. A Pokemon like Roserade or Venusaur, similar to the other sets, can switch in on Slowbro and threaten it with a STAB Grass attack.</p>

<p>Special attacking Pokemon in general appreciate the fact that Blaziken can take out many of the special walls with this set. Pokemon such as Espeon, Mismagius, and many other special attackers benefit from Altaria going down, as well as the other Pokemon taking their special hits with ease.</p>

<p>This set is walled by Donphan unless you use Flare Blitz. Again, Roserade makes an excellent partner for Blaziken, as it can OHKO Donphan with a STAB Leaf Storm, leaving Blaziken free to sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed Choice Scarf
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Superpower
move 3: ThunderPunch
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Rash / Mild
evs: 84 Atk / 184 SpA / 240 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Blaziken's brilliant offensive stats are often offset by its mediocre Speed. This can be remedied by a Choice Scarf, which gives Blaziken a break from its usual wall breaking duties to becoming a good revenge killer and sweeper. With a Choice Scarf, Blaziken reaches 384 Speed, which outspeeds max Speed base 125s such as Swellow. Blaziken also boasts a STAB Fighting-type attack in Superpower, which always OHKOs Chansey and Clefable.</p>

<p>The advantage of using a mixed set over a purely physical set is that it broadens Blaziken's revenge killing spectrum, though it is slightly lower in power. With this set, Blaziken can open with a STAB Fire Blast to deal a lot of damage to whatever it is attempting to revenge kill, and it works well as an opportunity to scout your opponent's Blaziken counters. With "BoltBeam" coverage alongside its STABs, there are few Pokemon that Blaziken will not hit for super effective, which is important for a choice set. After its revenge killing job is completed, Blaziken can utilize whatever residual damage it has taken and use a Blaze boosted Fire Blast to sweep your opponent.</p>

<p>This set is best used with a team that needs some revenge killing and late game sweeping power. Choice Scarf Blaziken works great offensively with Pokemon such as Swords Dance Drapion or Rock Polish Torterra, being able to outspeed and OHKO many of their counters.</p>

<p>Defensively, Blaziken needs something to sponge hits from the Pokemon who can take a hit while also hitting Blaziken for a KO back. With the lack of an attack boosting item, Water-types will be more common switch-ins to this set. Pokemon such as Roserade can easily force them out and will greatly appreciate the free turn to set up (Toxic) Spikes for your team. Dugtrio can come in on ThunderPunch and KO Blaziken, so Azumarill and Choice Scarf Roserade make good partners as well.</p>

[SET]
name: Reversal
move 1: Reversal
move 2: Blaze Kick
move 3: Substitute / Endure
move 4: Swords Dance
item: Salac Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With two nice STABs and Blaze, as well as the rarity of Hail and Sandstorm, Blaziken has the capability to pull off a Reversal set. At one HP with a Swords Dance under its belt, Blaziken OHKOes almost all of the metagame with SR in play with a 200 base power Reversal and a 127.5 base power Blaze Kick. To start, you send Blaziken in on a Pokemon who cannot break its Substitute or is forced out by Blaziken, and then use Substitute. After your opponent switches, if the Pokemon sent in is faster, use Substitute until Salac Berry activates, and if it's slower, use Swords Dance, then Substitute down until you get your Speed boost. Endure can work as well, if you Swords Dance on a Pokemon that can not OHKO you, and then Endure the hit that would otherwise KO. However, Substitute is preferred as you are blocked from status moves.</p>

<p>This set needs a Pokemon which can lure out priority attackers such as Hitmontop, Ambipom and Azumarill. Hitmontop will be seen on almost every team with Moltres, so if you have a Pokemon who can use Stealth Rock and Explode, that's exactly what you need. Registeel, Regirock, and Steelix can do this quite well, as they can all survive one Fighting-type attack, and Explode. The flaw with this strategy, however, is that Hitmontop may Rapid Spin before an Explosion, so it's best to land Thunder Wave on Hitmontop beforehand. Claydol with Psychic also hurts Hitmontop, so it's a good bet as well. Ambipom is rather difficult to isolate and destroy, because it has a fast U-turn and often switches out. Your best bet is to throw attacks at it early in the game with set up Pokemon, because Ambipom will likely Taunt them to prevent set up. Azumarill is also quite tricky, but your best bet here is to use Venusaur or Slowbro, who both handily deal with Azumarill.</p>

<p>This set has the potential to be a very dangerous late game sweeper, but it can only work effectively if all your opponent's priority attackers are gone, and Sandstorm or Hail are not in play. It is significantly harder to pull off than the others, but if you do set it up, then you are almost guaranteed a sweep.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Due to Blaziken's offensive nature, any teammate who can set up Stealth Rock reliably will be greatly appreciated, as it turns some 3HKOs into 2HKOs against common switch-ins, such as Milotic and Moltres. With Stealth Rock up, a general all out attacking Blaziken (such as the mixed Life Orb set, Choice Specs, or Choice Band) can 2HKO every Pokemon in the UU metagame, barring set specific counters (such as Hariyama, Altaria, and Slowbro).</p>

<p>The previously mentioned Blaziken sets all punch holes in the opponent's team and often allow your other sweepers to pull off a sweep. Since Blaziken is adept at taking out special walls such as Registeel and Chansey, it makes a great teammate for special sweepers such as Mismagius, Espeon, and Shaymin, who otherwise have trouble getting past these walls. Blaziken can also take out Physical walls, such as Steelix and Regirock, which gives Pokemon such as Drapion, Hitmonlee, and Swellow an easier time to sweep.</p>

<p>Blaziken's Choice Scarf and stat boosting sweeper sets (such as Swords Dance and Agility sets) can have a fair bit of trouble sweeping early in the game with your opponent's bulky Water-types in play, such has Milotic, Slowbro, Slowking, Azumarill, and the like. You can deal with these Pokemon by utilizing Roserade, Venusaur, or Magneton. The "BaitLix" variant of Steelix does an excellent job of luring in Water-types, and Exploding on them. Pokemon such as Magmortar also do this job nicely, as Milotic may think it's switching into a Fire Blast, but can instead be severely crippled by a Life Orb or Choice Specs boosted Thunderbolt. Blaziken itself draws out the aforementioned bulky waters, so Roserade will have a great time wreaking havoc against them.</p>

<p>Defensively, Blaziken appreciates Pokemon who can take attacks from any faster Pokemon who threaten to KO it. Pokemon such as Swellow, Drapion, Espeon, Charizard, and the like are common threats to Blaziken, and Pokemon such as Registeel or Steelix can handle most of them, minus Charizard, obviously. Regirock is also a good Pokemon for backing up Blaziken, because it can handle Charizard, taking little damage from Earthquakes, Fire Blasts, or Flying attacks. Roserade is a great Pokemon for taking the attacks of the Water-type Pokemon who commonly switch in on Blaziken. Poliwrath is as well, taking advantage of its Water Absorb ability.</p>

<p>Fortunately, Pokemon that Blaziken is adept at taking out are rarely seen with Hariyama, but Milotic is seen often with Steelix and can pose a threat to Blaziken if sent in on a Fire Blast. Another bulky Water-type, Azumarill, is often seen with Grass-types such as Venusaur and Roserade to cushion Fire attacks, and with Aqua Jet it can pose a serious threat to any type of Blaziken. Unfortunately, Altaria is also seen from time to time with Registeel, so it would be a good idea to carry an Ice-type move on your team.</p>

<p>Blaziken is one of those Pokemon who can be stuck on nearly any team and do its job, but to utilize it to its fullest potential, there are many strategies one can use. One of the most effective late game sweeping strategies is to use a Calm Mind passing Espeon with an Agility sweeping Blaziken. Once Espeon gets a couple of Calm Minds, it can quickly Baton Pass to Blaziken, who resists Bug and Dark-type attacks aimed at Espeon. After an Agility and a couple of Calm Minds, Blaziken is definitely a force to be reckoned with, and it may end the game right there. Another strategy for using Blaziken is to have a Choice Specs user (why exactly does it have to be Choiced? CM / BP Espeon would work find, wouldn't it?), such as the previously mentioned Espeon, that has Baton Pass or U-turn and can easily lure out Chansey and Registeel. Using those moves to switch to Blaziken on the same turn gives Blaziken a free turn to do whatever it wants, as neither of these special walls will want to stick around to get hit by a STAB Fighting attack. With Registeel, Regirock, or Steelix on your team, foe Ambipom leads will usually be forced to Taunt and U-turn right away to stop Stealth Rock and get out of battle. Blaziken can then use its Bug resistance to it's advantage and switch into the U-turn, which will keep your opponent from setting up as they need to U-turn to their Blaziken counter.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Due to Blaziken having so many viable sets, there is some more ground to be covered here, as there are a few sets that Blaziken could run that are not mentioned above.</p>

<p>Flamethrower can replace Fire Blast on any set if you dislike Fire Blast's accuracy, but there is a significant drop in power. Blaziken can use a basic Swords Dance set with Sky Uppercut and Flare Blitz, but Blaziken's low Speed lets it down. On the note of Sky Uppercut, Blaziken can replace Superpower with it on almost any of the sets if you dislike the stat drops from Superpower, but you lose many important KOs such as Milotic on the mixed Life Orb set. Blaziken can also run a purely physical Agility set, with the same attacks as mentioned for the Swords Dance set. It can sweep in the same fashion that the mixed Agility sweeper can, but the fact that Fire Blast does not have recoil and that it can effectively use Superpower without lowering its main attacking stat makes the mixed set superior in most cases. Overheat can go over Fire Blast in some places for the extra power, but it will only work effectively on the mixed Choice Scarf set, and the Choice Specs set due to being more "hit and run" oriented.</p>

<p>With some commonly used UU Pokemon able to learn the move Gravity (such as Chansey and Clefable), Blaziken can run a powerful Gravity abusing sweeper set. 100% accurate Focus Blasts and Fire Blasts can tear through most teams, with the former OHKOing Pokemon such as Regirock, who can survive a Superpower with a small amount of HP left. With an Agility under its belt, Blaziken can pull off a quick sweep.</p>

<p>Blaziken can also play the role of a Baton Passer, capable of passing Swords Dance, Agility, and Bulk Up, along with a Substitute. It's actually very good at doing it, because Blaziken forces a lot of switches, which allows you to use Substitute and then pass along the stat boosts.</p>

<p>Blaziken can effectively pull off an Agility SubPetaya set, similar to Empoleon in OU, but you might as well use Reversal if you are going to get that low on health.</p>

[Hidden Power]

<p>With many of Blaziken's sets using Hidden Power, it is important to know which ones to use and why.</p>

<p>Hidden Power Grass is one of the two Hidden Power types that hit Water-type Pokemon. It is important on many sets to hit Pokemon such as Omastar for a OHKO, who can otherwise survive and get a layer of spikes up. It also hits the odd Gastrodon and Quagsire, who can take a couple of Superpowers and be a general annoyance to Blaziken. However, with Blaziken's STABs, Hidden Power Grass leaves you open to Altaria, Moltres and Charizard.</p>

<p>Hidden Power Electric also hits Water-type Pokemon, but they each have different uses. Hidden Power Electric hits Charizard and Moltres, who otherwise wall Blaziken and force it out. It also hits Omastar for super effective, but a defensive Omastar can survive and either KO Blaziken with Surf or set up Spikes. Hidden Power Electric leaves you open to Gastrodon and Quagsire, as well as Altaria. The Pokemon hit super effectively by Hidden Power Electric can also be dealt with by simply using Stealth Rock, as they are both easily 2HKOed by a combination of Fire Blast and Vacuum Wave after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

<p>Hidden Power Ice has pretty much one use in UU for Blaziken: OHKOing Altaria. Without Stone Edge, Blaziken needs Hidden Power Ice to have any chance of breaking through Altaria who resists both of Blaziken's STAB attacks, and has great Special Defense with a recovery move to boot. This leaves you painfully open to Water-types, however, so it is only recommended if you have those Pokemon covered some other way. It also leaves you open to Charizard and Moltres. The reason it's used on the mixed Choice Scarf set is because it is used in conjunction with ThunderPunch, which hits these Flying and Water-type Pokemon super effectively.</p>

<p>The last viable Hidden Power option is the Rock-type version. Hidden Power Rock hits Moltres and Charizard for OHKOs, but also dents Altaria. Again, the issue is that it Blaziken needs to be able to hit Water-types hard, as they are the most common switch-ins. Stone Edge is often a better option unless it's on the Choice Specs set.</p>

[EVs]

<p>The mixed attacking set can run an alternate spread of 240 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 16 Spe. This spread is especially suggested if you opt to use Hidden Power Electric, as it allows Blaziken to KO Gastrodon, Omastar and Quagsire with Fire Blast followed by Superpower. It also gives Superpower more oomph, but the general rule of thumb is that Speed is more useful on a sweeper. The 16 Speed EVs still allow you to outrun minimum speed Milotic, which is important, as Milotic is otherwise one of Blaziken's primary counters. Using all of that Attack power allows Blaziken to be one of the best wall-breakers in UU, at the expense of being a bit easier for your opponent to revenge kill.</p>

<p>On the Choice Specs set, Blaziken can sacrifice some speed EVs for bulk, due to Vacuum Wave and the fact that the Pokemon it comes in on are generally slow walls. Safely, the lowest Speed that Blaziken should be at is 201 (Modest with 20 Speed EVs), which outspeeds Milotic and max Speed Azumarill. With the remaining 152 EVs in HP, and 84 EVs put into Defense, Blaziken can survive a Choice Band boosted Aqua Jet and 2HKO Azumarill. The bulkier EV Spread looks like this: 152 HP / 84 Def / 252 SpA / 20 Spe.</p>

<p>With the Choice Scarf sets, only the physical set can take advantage of a Jolly nature to outspeed Torterra after a Rock Polish because the mixed Choice Scarf set has its EVs split up already, so the sacrifice in power is not worth it. Without a boosting nature 384 Speed outruns base 125s, mainly Swellow.</p>

<p>For the Agility set, it has 64 Speed EVs to outspeed Adamant Torterra, who can otherwise hinder Blaziken's sweep with the threat of STAB Earthquake(of course, it can't switch in).</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Blaziken is arguably the best wall breaker in the UU metagame, with its base 120 Attack and base 110 Special Attack. With a Fighting STAB to take out the special walls of the metagame, and a powerful Fire STAB to deal major damage, Blaziken is definitely a force to be reckoned with. Blaziken alone is the reason that Chansey is not used as a primary special wall as often as it should.</p>

<p>The main thing holding Blaziken back is its Speed coupled with poor defenses. Speed is very important for sweeping, and the fact that Blaziken can be easily revenge killed holds it back from sweeping effectively; Blaziken will ideally knock out one Pokemon, then be forced out or trapped by Dugtrio.</p>

<p>However, Blaziken's offensive nature makes it very appealing for any team that needs something to break stall and balanced teams alike, while also providing some decent revenge killing power for offensive teams. Which brings up another advantage Blaziken has - it's a very versatile Pokemon with so many viable options. With so many possibilities, no one can ever be sure of what set it is running until it attacks.</p>

<p>In the OU metagame, Blaziken is generally outclassed by Infernape because of the latter's superior Speed and movepool, but Blaziken's role in the UU metagame can only be filled by a select few Pokemon, though none of them are as versatile. Nidoking can be used as a wall breaker with its superior Speed and movepool, but it lacks the brute force that Blaziken brings. Magmortar can also be a good wall breaker, but it bears a weakness to Stealth Rock and lacks the physical STAB Fighting attacks and priority to pull it off as effectively as well, though it hits a little harder than Blaziken from the special side. Blaziken has the benefit of having a secondary STAB that is enhanced by Blaze for Reversal sets, an advantage over Pokemon such as Medicham and Hitmonlee. For its Agility set, an advantage over other Agility users such as Moltres is that it has a STAB Fighting attack to dispose of Chansey and Clefable. Moltres, however, is much more durable and hits a little harder from the special side.</p>

<p>If you need a Pokemon to break down walls, revenge kill, or sweep late game, definitely consider Blaziken for a slot on your team with one of its many viable sets.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Blaziken is one of those Pokemon who can dish out damage from both ends of the spectrum, meaning it's hard to switch any Pokemon in safely. That being said, safe initial switch-ins include bulky Water-types such as Milotic, but they need to watch out for Hidden Power, as it lowers them into KO range from Superpower.</p>

<p>Altaria is probably the best all around switch-in to Blaziken, as it can take any attack except for Hidden Power Ice and Stone Edge. Resisting both of Blaziken's STABs, it is probably your best bet if you want to safely switch into Blaziken. Similar to Altaria, Moltres can switch in on many attacks except for Stone Edge and Hidden Power Electric as long as Stealth Rock is kept off the field.</p>

<p>Slowking is a very good counter to the Mixed Priority and Agility sets, as it takes Fire Blasts and Hidden Powers better than Slowbro due to its good Special Defense, while Blaziken suffers Life Orb recoil damage.</p>

<p>Dugtrio serves as a good check to most Blaziken sets, as it can trap and KO Blaziken with STAB Earthquake, while Blaziken can only muster around 60% with a Life Orb Vacuum Wave, and a bit more with a Specs Vacuum Wave. </p>

<p>Blaziken's main weaknesses are its low Speed and defenses. With mediocre Speed, Blaziken can be easily revenge killed by anything with a super effective attack that has decent attack strength. Pokemon such as Drapion and Yanmega can be taken out by a Fire Blast, but they outrun Blaziken and OHKO with Earthquake and Air Slash respectively. The key to eliminating Blaziken is by predicting an obvious Fire Blast or Superpower and then taking advantage of the fact that it's slow and fragile by either forcing it out or easily revenge killing it. For example, Pokemon such as Azumarill or Kabutops can switch in on a Fire Blast, then threaten to KO it with Aqua Jet or Waterfall respectively.</p>

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notes -
I would like the damage calcs for both EV spreads for the mixed priority attacker.
Is an Agility SubPetaya set deserving of an analysis? I haven't tested it much, so I would like some input on this matter.
edit: since i only got a couple of opinions, i'm adding it to OO.

 

[Heysup]

Hey well thanks for the "heysup deserves most of the credit" part. At least a cool person is still doing it :P.

Now I wrote up a long post, but I accidentaly hit "back"....so i'm not re-typing it all (most of it was calcs, which can be given upon request).

Basically I was saying that Once I cooled down I talked to Jrrr, Twash, and LR who didnt think it was a bad idea to have two sets. I mentioned to LR (who actually explained to me specific examples where the 72 Atk set was better, allowing me to be more at ease, knowing that its actually a "good" spread which didnt happen in the other thread >.>). So I explained that the old set with high attack allowed Blaziken to more reliably take out stall with superpower, unlike the new set (I mentioned examples from LRs team, and other common stall teams).

Superpower allows Pokemon such as Drapion and Shaymin to switch in when used by the "new" set, while also not allowing it to safely use Superpower on Omastar, giving Crobat another Free switch in on HP Grass. While with the old set, the only Pokemon Blaziken loses to when it uses superpower against a stall team is Crobat versus Crobat, Omastar, Drapion and Shaymin on with the new set. So basically the strong points of the old set are that it:

a) has more reliability against the "common stall team" with superpower
b) isnt forced to use HP Grass (Which gives Crobat a switch in, so that actually matters alot) to deal with Omastar / Gastrodon / Quag / Relicanth / Etc.
c) Beats random Pokemon such as Azumarill that the 72 atk doesnt.
d) has more reliability against the "common walls" (Registeel, Regirock, Umbreon, and "arguably" Milotic).

So my proposal is:

-LR suggested, that if we add new sets we could possibly just put one of the sets over the Agility sweeper, and just Slash Agility in.

-Take HP Electric off of the set, as its arguably a "worse" 236 Atk set with HP electric over grass.

-Add a new set, called "Mixed (Priority) Wall Breaker. It will emphasize how it can use Superpower safely and more often. Emphasizing how its more efficient vs the "common stall team", and "common walls". Also mentioning stuff like Azumarill, and general damage output. Mentioning its disadvantage against common semi-fast Pokemon, but not emphasizing it much, because its job is to deal with "walls", and "stall".

The set should look like this:

[SET]
name: Mixed (Priority) Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Vacuum Wave
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild / Rash
evs: TBA (high (200s) likely) Atk / 252 SpA / TBA (low (30s-60s) Spe

LR basically suggested that I wait for the new "Standard Milotic" spread to come out, because my EVs might be outdated in the first place (it was only as awesome as it was because it actually did beat every Milotic except for the odd 36 spe ones).

I am not allowed to actually post the write ups, so Jrrrr (or Gay Dolphin??) has agreed to look at my suggestions that I PM'd him, and he will look at them, likely edit them (mostly the 72 Atk spread write up, as I hadnt talked with LR about the "actual" advantages of the 72 Atk spread till after I wrote it) and possibly post them here.

Im not here to be "difficult", im here to ensure that we have the best possible Blaziken analysis, regardless of who writes it.


Before finalizing any set, we should wait for Milotic's spread. If there is a significant amount of Special Defense, then the 236 atk spread MAY be needed to KO the standard Milotic (making it as, maybe slightly more effective than the 72 Atk at that point). In any event, we should just consider that before we finalize a spread.

Note: Calcs can be given upon request, I just dont feel like re-doing all of them atm because they got deleted :(.
---------------------------------------------------

@ the SubPetaya set:

I tested it, and its pretty cool. However its basically a worse Reversal set, losing power and accuracy.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Just noticed some inaccuracies too:

<p>Fire Blast will be your main attack, and Hidden Power is for the common Water-type switch-ins. Both Hidden Power get the important 2HKO on bulky waters like Slowbro and some Milotic, who fall to a Fire Blast followed by Hidden Power, and Superpower followed by Hidden power respectively (space) (Milotic has a very small chance of survival with the most defensive EV spread (252 HP / 252 Defense with a Bold nature)), as long as Stealth Rock is in play. Other walls such as Registeel and Regice are easily dispatched by any of Blaziken's STAB attacks, and Chansey is easily OHKOed by Superpower, which lets another special sweeper dominate. Vacuum Wave helps Blaziken become a fairly decent revenge killer as well, nearly OHKOing dangerous Pokemon such as Omastar and Kabutops (if it does not carry Aqua Jet) in the rain.</p>

@ Milotic stuff. You need to fix this a bit because it is no longer true with the current EV spread. Basically, the 252/252 spread is "common", not "most", or "few", just "common". So, you should just say that you get the important 2HKO on some Milotic, because there are a good amount that you cannot beat (not just the 252/252 ones), such as the max Speed, and specially defensive set. I'd change the bold italics bit to something like:

"(A significant portion of Milotic will survive most of the time. For example, with the most defensive EV spread (252 HP / 252 Defense with a Bold nature) or a variant running high Speed (usually lack of Leftovers recovery is an indicator of this), Milotic will either survive the Hidden Power and Superpower combination, or just simply outpace Blaziken and OHKO it with Surf."

I dont know how to make it sound less "negative", but its true nonetheless. The old EV spread 2HKOed every Milotic (and OHKOed the max speed variants), so thats why it was there.

And at the "disposing of" Registeel part. Thats inaccurate now, because the Standard EV spread (252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD) Registeel is no longer OHKOed by this Blaziken in any way, shape, or form. So I would change it to:

"Other walls such as Registeel and Regice are dispatched by any of Blaziken's STAB attacks, however they are not OHKOed (without further EVs invested in Attack)"

I hope this helps.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Yeah, basically heysup has been very polite and productive in trying to split the sets up. I really disagree that the low-speed mixed wall breaker is better after having used them both (and SDS and Erazor also agreed with me on this, I wish heysup would test the new spread before accusing me of not testing his), but against a pure stall team, the higher Atk *can* come in handy...its just that in UU, stall is insanely difficult to pull off because all the good defensive pokemon are OU already so you will be finding yourself with wasted Atk EVs more often than not. The high Atk mixed set is good at what it is designed for (sweeping stall teams), but the higher Speed set is better suited for more common opponents, imo. Now that I know how both sets function, its pretty clear that the speedier version is better. I didn't run across a single time where I wished I had more Attack.

The higher Speed is better to have more often than not, but more Attack does have some merits. I posted three logs in the other Blaziken thread demonstrating how useful the other spread can be. Most teams in UU are not stall, and the slight drop in Atk isn't going to hurt you except in the rare cases that your opponents team is at 100% and using insanely defensive spreads.

I'll send edits to what heysup sent me back to him, then i'll let him know what I think of his proposal...I'm just kinda working on tons of edits right now already, on top of real life stuff v_v

Right now, its not looking like we need to split it into 2 sets. Standard policy is that 2 sets with the same moves but different EV spreads just gets one set with the alternate EV spread explained in the comments. Obviously, that paragraph will have to be detailed...but atm I don't think the two sets are different enough to warrant posting both of them. Let's please not turn this thread into a shitstorm as well, the two sets are extremely similar and the faster EV spread is useful in more situations.

I do agree with heysup that the mixed priority attacker set needs to be cleared up. Some Milotics will still beat the faster set, and you don't *always* outspeed things like Gardevoir, just most of them. In addition to tweaking the prose, you need to give a pretty detailed explanation of the 236 Atk EV spread, because it is one of the more common Blaziken sets at the moment and it does have its merits vs stall. Ignoring it completely is not what I had in mind when I suggested that we improve upon it.

 

[Heysup]

Right now, its not looking like we need to split it into 2 sets. Standard policy is that 2 sets with the same moves but different EV spreads just gets one set with the alternate EV spread explained in the comments. Obviously, that paragraph will have to be detailed...but atm I don't think the two sets are different enough to warrant posting both of them =\

Well technically one moveset is Fire Blast / Superpower / HP Grass / Vacuum Wave, and one is Fire Blast / Superpower / HP Electric / Vacuum Wave.

But I do see your point, which is why I think we should probably just overlap the Agility and the Wall Breaker sets (LR suggested something similar to me via pm). It could look like this:

[SET]
name: Mixed Wall Breaker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Vacuum Wave / Agility
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild / Rash
evs: TBA (Basically it only needs 20 EVs to outspeed max speed Crobat, but well see).

The agility set as it is, is basically a "Stronger" wall breaker set (with less immedate speed) then the current first set (which makes no sense now), except it has agility over Vacuum Wave. This set could just have something like: Vacuum Wave is usefull to revenge kill, and Agility lets you sweep late game.

The sets are basically 30 EVs different, they are easy to combine and do the same thing untill Agility is used, or Vacuum Wave is needed.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Like this doesnt make sense anymore:

This set works a lot like the previous set, but without priority and slightly less powerful.

Its more powerful now :P.

There are other places that are going to be shakey now too IIRC (because it was based on the old set), ill try to find them. Especially in terms of team support, the old set was more "team oriented".

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Overlapping the Agility set and the low-Speed/high-Atk mixed attacker, while keeping the speedier mixed p.attacker actually sounds like an amazing idea....why couldn't we have come up with that in the other thread lol :(

 

[Heysup]

Overlapping the Agility set and the low-Speed/high-Atk mixed attacker, while keeping the speedier mixed p.attacker actually sounds like an amazing idea....why couldn't we have come up with that in the other thread lol :(

I blame Jabba :P. Should I PM you with the recombination attempt, or should I leave this up to Erazor? Well I guess its his call, so ill wait for some sort of response.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

just post it, since its a new set. Erazor can add it in later, he has enough work to do atm fixing the original edit up

 

[Heysup]

Alright, thanks.

[SET]
name: Mixed Agility Wall Breaker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Agility
item: Life Orb
nature: Rash
evs: 236 Atk / 252 SpA / 20 Spe (Subject to change)

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is (arguably) the best wall breaking set for any Pokemon in UU because of Blaziken's monstrous offensive stats. With its 120 Attack, and 110 Special Attack, it can deal major damage from both ends of the spectrum, and this set capitalizes on that more so than the above set. This set also takes advantage of the fact that Blaziken can use Agility to pull off a late game sweep.</p>

<p>The major difference between this set and the above set, is its ability to more efficiently support its team, and even essentially support itself by clearing the common walls more effectively with its extra Attack EVs. One example of this is Registeel, which is turned from a 2HKO into a OHKO, making sure that Registeel who stay in to set up Stealth Rock or paralyze Blaziken to not succeed. This set also has the advantage of 2HKOing every Milotic switch in with Superpower followed by Hidden Power, and the faster less defensive variants are KOed by Superpower after Stealth Rock damage. As far as stall teams go however, Fighting-type attacks are much more reliable for taking something out. With the only common stall oriented Pokemon who can reliably switch into Superpower being Crobat, which is a huge advantage over the sweeper with less Attack. The biggest disadvantage however, is that you are now much slower than the average Pokemon, and are much more easily revenge killed in common battle conditions. If your primary aim isn't to beat stall teams and common walls more effectively or use Agility, the faster set is often a better choice. Vacuum Wave is still viable on this set, because it gives Blaziken the ability to revenge kill, although you lose the ability to sweep late game. It comes with a couple perks too, for example Azumarill is beat if hit by Superpower and then Vacuum Wave, not allowing it to pull off an Aqua Jet.</p>

<p>Hidden Power Electric is chosen on this set over Hidden Power Grass because with the EVs given, Blaziken can deal with Omastar and Quagsire with Superpower. This allows Blaziken to hit a more variety of the tier, namely Pokemon like Moltres and Charizard, not to mention Crobat cannot use Hidden Power Electric as a free switch-in. The last slot is a big toss up, and depends on what you want Blaziken to do other than wall breaking. With the EVs given, Blaziken can take advantage of its amazing wall breaking capabilities, it can clear a path for a sweep for none other than itself, after an Agility of course. The EVs given outspeed everything except for maximum Speed Electrode while also outpacing minimum Speed Milotic.p>

<p>This set works a lot like the previous set, but its more easily revenge killed while also being more powerful. This set basically only has trouble with Pokemon like Altaria, Slowking, and Hariyama, who wall this set with their resistances and bulkiness. The best way to deal with Altaria, is to use a Pokemon such as Shaymin who can lure it in on a Seed Flare, and OHKO it with Hidden Power Ice. Frankly, any Pokemon who can lure in Altaria and hit it with an Ice-type attack is a good partner for Blaziken. Stealth Rock also helps due to Altaria taking 25% every time it switches in. Honchrow makes a perfect partner with Blaziken as well, beating Hariyama with its STAB Drill Peck, as well as trapping Slowking with its STAB Pursuit. With Agility, Blaziken is a stand-alone sweeper (as in it breaks walls for itself), so all it really needs to be effective are the Pokemon to remove its counters that were already mentioned. However, even though the Agility set functions fine without any other boosts, it can benefit greatly from Calm Mind boosts from Espeon, who can Baton Pass to Blaziken on any Bug or Dark-type attack aimed at Espeon.</p>

To demonstrate the effectiveness of this set, here are some calculations:

<h3>Damage Calculations</h3>
<pre>
Fire Blast vs 212 HP / min SpD Slowbro: 40.11% - 47.33%
Hidden Power vs 212 HP / min SpD Slowbro: 63.10% - 74.33%
Hidden Power vs. max HP / max Def Milotic: 40.10% - 47.72%
Superpower vs. max HP / max Def Milotic: 50.51% - 59.64
Superpower vs. max HP / min Def Azumarill: 71.29% - 83.91%
Vacuum Wave vs. max HP / min SpD Azumarill: 25.25% - 29.70%
Superpower vs. max HP / min Def Registeel: 92.31% - 108.79%

I could have made some mistakes because it was basically all re-done. I think I did it justice, while having a couple sentances saying why the other set is better for certain things.

It also probably needs another name come to think of it.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

basically all you did was add agility to the first set and drop hp grass for essentially no reason (outside trying to differentiate it from the first set i imagine)

so yeah what you did was just repost the first set. what i think needs to be done is a potential revamp of the agility set. drop sp. atk for some speed maybe so you can outspeed scarfers, maybe replace hp electric with stone edge or possibly tpunch i don't know i think it needs to be tested and fiddled around a bit but i definitely don't like the direction you're trying to take it.

edit: i just read your write up of your "new" set. it's just you saying the differences between the ev spreads lol. it can easily be condensed to a paragraph and inserted in the first set.

 

[franky]

Alright, thanks.




I could have made some mistakes because it was basically all re-done. I think I did it justice, while having a couple sentances saying why the other set is better for certain things.

It also probably needs another name come to think of it.

EDIT: @ Jabba, please elaborate here. We have the right to know why its dumb dont we?

This set looks good and has potential to break a UU Stall Team. Also I think the last paragraph needs to input the fact that Blaziken greatly appreciates entry hazards in this particular set. This is probably the more fearsome threat for breaking walls and paired with both Stealth Rock and even one layer of Spike, it can turn 2HKO's to OHKO's. Not to mention the fact some of these walls that are already damage or not at full health can have a hard time with this set. Looks good btw.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

About the set heysup proposed (Agility set):

1) remove vacuum wave. You really need Agility to be an agility set....

2) you only need 8 speed EVs to outspeed everything except Electrode after an Agility, so you can even add a bit more into Atk if you want

3) Put Sky Uppercut as the main option, and slash Superpower. The physical move is the one youre going to be using least anyways, and you aren't going to want to use Superpower, then switch out. However, Superpower does have some use so it is worth keeping there

4) imo, we should fix that ev spread on the current agility set....Venusaur and Houndoom aren't common scarfers. IMO we should just base the EV spread on what actually IS used.

5) You just posted the same set, with your EVs and the rest of it is dedicated to explaining why the ev spread works...which was the entire reason why everyone was arguing against you in the first thread. If you are seriously going to put a disguise on your set just to get it on-site, its not even worth wasting your time on. You said you were going to overlap the Agility set and the mixed attacking set, not just slash agility on your inferior EV spread.

6) imo it should be Agility/Fire Blast/HP Electric/Superpower or Sky Uppercut, with spatk maximized, speed EVs dependant on whatever we decide is important to beat, and then the rest in Atk for Superpower.

The current Mixed Priority Attacker set is fine (the prose needs work, but the set and ev spread are good). The Agility set does need some work, which is why I suggested that you overlap them....but not like that lol

 

[Heysup]

About the set heysup proposed (Agility set):

1) remove vacuum wave. You really need Agility to be an agility set....

Vacuum Wave is still viable on the set. Its not a "dedicated Agility set where Agility is the only reason to use this set and is the only option with this moveset and EV spread", it never was. This set always was a wall breaker first, and sweeper second. Now its a Wall breaker first, and Sweeper OR Revenge killer second.

However I guess you could make Agility the primary option, which is a good idea. In fact, removing Vacuum Wave isnt even a bad idea, as long as it gets a mention in the set comments.

2) you only need 8 speed EVs to outspeed everything except Electrode after an Agility, so you can even add a bit more into Atk if you want

Right, but the 20 Outspeed the (currently) standard Milotic spread. Thats why I made it subject to change, because it depends on the standard Milotic spread. Remember Blaziken has a much easier time sweeping if it can remove Milotic.

3) Put Sky Uppercut as the main option, and slash Superpower. The physical move is the one youre going to be using least anyways, and you aren't going to want to use Superpower, then switch out. However, Superpower does have some use so it is worth keeping there

Superpower is the only physical move, so its the best option. Superpower is actually alot better, let me explain why.

First and foremost, Blaziken needs it to get KOes on the walls its "Breaking", such as Registeel, Milotic, and the like. If it doesnt OHKO Registeel, it can be Paralyzed and rendered basically useless as an Agility sweeper, while Milotic will just KO it with surf.

Secondly, the most Blaziken will use Superpower will probably be less than twice once Agility is activated. Unless i'm mistaken, Superpower has more Power even over two turns than Sky Uppercut does. 120 + 90 = 210, 95+95=190. Even after three turns, the damage difference is barely noticable. 95+95+95=285, 120+90+60=270, and thats in the most ridiculous circumstance that will occur, unless you are against a Mono-normal team..

Third, Superpower is the only physical move that will be used. It does not interfere with other attacks power.

Fourth, 100% accuracy is a big one. Having an 100% accurate stab attack to back up Fire Blast with is very important.

I think thats it. Sky Uppercut should stay in OO imo.

4) imo, we should fix that ev spread on the current agility set....Venusaur and Houndoom aren't common scarfers. IMO we should just base the EV spread on what actually IS used.

Well it outspeeds that 36 Speed Milotic you were talking about!...lol.

In all seriousness, yes we should. However I dont think it matters since that was the point of the overlap anyway?

5) You just posted the same set, with your EVs and the rest of it is dedicated to explaining why the ev spread works...which was the entire reason why everyone was arguing against you in the first thread. If you are seriously going to put a disguise on your set just to get it on-site, its not even worth wasting your time on. You said you were going to overlap the Agility set and the mixed attacking set, not just slash agility on your inferior EV spread.

Its how the agility Blaziken plays. It doesnt need Speed. Its coincidence that its the same set (and same EVs).

Listen, Im not disguising my set. "My" set ("HeYsUp's Blaziken set" as its known) is already going on the site (the first set?), I dont understand why people seem to think im just making this about having "my" set on the site, when its there already. Blaziken has the same moves on its mixed sets, if you didnt notice. Its best moves are still its best moves. Thats like saying the person who made the DD Salamence analysis is just taking the CB Salamence analysis and slashing Dragon Dance onto it.

The reason its the same set and stuff, is because it MAXIMIZES wallbreaking ability. The Agility set is so deadly, because it can play like a wall breaker, and then set itself up for a sweep. The EVs are chosen just for this initial post, untill Milotics standard spread makes an appearance. However they shouldnt change much, if at all.

6) imo it should be Agility/Fire Blast/HP Electric/Superpower or Sky Uppercut, with spatk maximized, speed EVs dependant on whatever we decide is important to beat, and then the rest in Atk for Superpower.

I agree, but without superpower and with Vacuum Wave in set comments. I'm going to say it again though, outspeeding stuff BEFORE an Agility for the sake of Wall breaking is a completely valid reason to have a certain amount of EVs.

What exactly are we arguing about here lol?

The current Mixed Priority Attacker set is fine (the prose needs work, but the set and ev spread are good). The Agility set does need some work, which is why I suggested that you overlap them....but not like that lol

The Agility set was basically just changed to emphasize that its a good wall breaker. It can be re-written again (by someone else), or just editted, but the point is that Blaziken is a wall breaker before an Agility sweeper. Otherwise its just like a shitty Moltres (Moltres beats Hariyama, Blaziken beats Chansey), but it really isnt a shitty Moltres, its different.

Basically all Im saying is that wall breaking > Sweeping for this set. If it doesnt Wall Break, how does it sweep?

EDIT: How does this look?

[SET]
name: Wall Breaker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Agility
item: Life Orb
nature: Rash / Mild
evs: 236 Atk / 252 SpA / 20 Spe (Subject to change)


and we can just add this in:

<p>...blah blah....Vacuum Wave can actually be used on this set as well, because the EVs are focused on Wall Breaking, and Vacuum Wave gives you a nice priority attack to revenge kill various threats, and beat the likes of Azumarill....blah blah.</p>

The EVs are likely not going to change unless for some reason people want to Outspeed a set thats not even on the analysis anymore (my old EV set). However, we dont know yet so nothing should be finalized.


I Editted some changes into my Overlap atempt if you think it sounds better now.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

ok im really getting tired of this stupid crap about your inferior ev spread. Nobody that has used both spreads has said that the slower one is better, in addition to the faster one looking better on paper. You say you "want the best Blaziken analysis" but then you are trying to sneak this in over and over again despite the fact that nobody else agrees. I'm not going to let you drag this thread down like you destroyed your own thread. Just drop it ffs.

About the Agility set: Agility/HP Grass or Electric/Superpower/Fire Blast should be the set, with Life Orb. We need to discuss what Speed benchmark we need to hit. 8 Speed EVs outpaces Crobat after an Agility, but there could be random scarfers etc that it would be beneficial to outpace.

About the mixed priority attacker/wall breaker set: use the 72 Atk spread as the main spread, then add in a detailed paragraph explaining why taking out most of the Speed in exchange for Atk can be beneficial, scoring clean OHKOs on stall teams even if you don't have stealth rock but sacrificing the Speed needed to be more productive against non-stall teams.

 

[Heysup]

Im going to PM you about the first bit of the post, as I dont want to be making the thread about that because its not the reason im posting, im not here to argue whether or not im sneaking something into the analysis, im here to help make it better with my experience and knowledge of the UU tier, and Blaziken.

So.

Did you see my changes to the set that I posted? Is the write up OK now (ok as in, "What you meant")? I dont know what the point of mixing the wallbreaker and Agility set together if you cant explain what the extra Attack does, but i digress.

Speed benchmark:

I think we should have AROUND 20 Speed EVs for reasons I have stated before (Outspeeds min/min Milotic).

I dont see why you would be against this either, considering the extra 12 Points in attack get you no notable KOes, and the 12 Speed points allow you to remove one of your most common and threatening counters.

Im still with the 236 Atk / 252 SpA / 20 Spe-ish. The Milotic analysis should be up soon, so well have something to go by as well.

 

[Erazor]

Alright, this argument has been far more toned down than the other one, well done both of you.

At the time of posting, I don't have much time, so I'd just like to say that I've read all the suggestions, and here's what I'll do - add a detailed para(or even a separate section) about the 236 Atk spread.

Then, I'll overlap the agility set with this one, removing Vacuum Wave and HP Grass.

Unless I should do something else?

I'd still like opinions on the subpetaya set, otherwise I'll add it to OO.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I'm switching the order of your paragraphs around so that I can respond to similar questions. I didn't change any context, I just grouped them together.

Did you see my changes to the set that I posted? Is the write up OK now (ok as in, "What you meant")? I dont know what the point of mixing the wallbreaker and Agility set together if you cant explain what the extra Attack does, but i digress.
...
I dont see why you would be against this either, considering the extra 12 Points in attack get you no notable KOes, and the 12 Speed points allow you to remove one of your most common and threatening counters.

Well, if you are using an Agility set, those pokemon are coming into Agility and not Superpower or Fire Blast. The extra Attack helps you serve as your own lure. Nail Milotic or Regirock, then the next time you come in you can Agility and sweep the rest of their team.

If 0 Speed Milotic is really as common as you are insisting it is (even though like 60% of milotics dont use it), then you should still be able to win with 12 Speed EVs. (Min speed milotic is 198, blaziken needs 12 speed EVs to beat min speed milotic)

Speed benchmark:

I think we should have AROUND 20 Speed EVs for reasons I have stated before (Outspeeds min/min Milotic).

Im still with the 236 Atk / 252 SpA / 20 Spe-ish. The Milotic analysis should be up soon, so well have something to go by as well.

For the agility set, I don't know what we should hit..I was hoping someone else would pop in with a useful speed benchmark. 8 was just my first suggestion for outpacing Crobat. It comes in on Agility, you destroy it with Fire Blast + Stealth Rock damage etc...although some Choice Scarfers that are actually used could be good too.

 

[Heysup]

Yea that sounds like the general consensus Erazor.

Well, if you are using an Agility set, those pokemon are coming into Agility and not Superpower or Fire Blast. The extra Attack helps you serve as your own lure. Nail Milotic or Regirock, then the next time you come in you can Agility and sweep the rest of their team.

This would be sort of true if Milotic didnt get recovery.

And I think you misunderstand what im saying. Its made more clear in the older analysis that talk more about the basics, but for stat boosting sets it is just completely wrong to start off with an Agility / DD / whatever.

The strategy with the Agility sweeper, is that you dont immediately use Agility, you instead clear yourself of Blazikens counters, like Milotic.

For example, its better that you use Superpower than Agility if Milotic switches in, because you are forced out by Milotic unless you have hit it with a Superpower.

Once Milotic is out of the way, Blaziken "CHECKS" will come in. Thats when you use Agility, to OHKO the checks (like Crobat and Shaymin).

If 0 Speed Milotic is really as common as you are insisting it is (even though like 60% of milotics dont use it), then you should still be able to win with 12 Speed EVs. (Min speed milotic is 198, blaziken needs 12 speed EVs to beat min speed milotic)

Its safer to outspeed the "odd" 4 Spe Milotics. Its basically the safer option, because you dont get anything in return.

For the agility set, I don't know what we should hit..I was hoping someone else would pop in with a useful speed benchmark. 8 was just my first suggestion for outpacing Crobat. It comes in on Agility, you destroy it with Fire Blast + Stealth Rock damage etc...although some Choice Scarfers that are actually used could be good too.

Right, and im just saying (untill someone comes in and says otherwise), that 20 Speed EVs is a good choice because it does what your spread does AND outpaces Min speed Milotic. If the Milotic isnt min speed, its going to take more from Superpower, making it unable to Recover all of the damage before its forced out again.

EDIT: Going to my GF's, so Ill post again later.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

The strategy with the Agility sweeper, is that you dont immediately use Agility, you instead clear yourself of Blazikens counters, like Milotic.

For example, its better that you use Superpower than Agility if Milotic switches in, because you are forced out by Milotic unless you have hit it with a Superpower.

Once Milotic is out of the way, Blaziken "CHECKS" will come in. Thats when you use Agility, to OHKO the checks (like Crobat and Shaymin).

That is literally exactly what I meant when I said "Blaziken can act as its own lure", lol.

The only way I can see all that Attack working is with Agility as well, which is why I'm glad this conclusion was reached...keep the 72 Atk spread as the Mixed Priority Attacker (and mention the stallbusting merits of using more Atk in the comments), and use the more Atk-oriented spread with Agility over Vacuum Wave and HP Electric over HP Grass for a "Mixed Agility Sweeper" set or something like that, explaining how it can act as its own lure, then stat up later to sweep.

The only decision we have to make now is "what do we want to outspeed when we are at +2?" The current agility set goes for Scarf Houndoom, I was thinking about hitting something more realistic...anybody got ideas? ~20 speed might work out, but I would feel better if we actually had reasoning for using our Speed number

 

[whistle]

Going off the April usage stats here are some common scarfers.

Blaziken (27.2% of 9151 = 2489)
Gardevoir (12.8% of 2292 = 293)
Glaceon (36.6% of 1119 = 410)
Hitmonlee (51.3% of 3183 = 1633)
Honchkrow (17.4% of 6823 = 1187)
Magmortar (51.9% of 2730 = 1417)
Medicham (50.8% of 2754 = 1399)
Mesprit (18.0% of 2597 = 467)
Moltres (24.4% of 3363 = 821)
Pinsir (53.8% of 1008 = 542)
Primeape (33.5% of 1634 = 547)
Typhlosion (62.0% of 2108 = 1307)
Uxie (18.3% of 5040 = 922)
Zangoose (32.4% of 1593 = 516)

These are the scarfers that might be worth outspeeding (the others aren't common enough, require too many EVs to outspeed, etc) with corresponding base speeds, max/max+ speeds, and resulting speeds of the common scarf varieties...

Blaziken (27.2% of 9151 = 2489) (80, 259, 284) +Speed 252 Spe= 426
Hitmonlee (51.3% of 3183 = 1633) (87, 273, 300) Jolly 252 Spe = 450
Honchkrow (17.4% of 6823 = 1187) (71, 241, 265) Naive 212 Spe = 382
Magmortar (51.9% of 2730 = 1417) (83, 265, 291) Modest 252 Spe = 397
Medicham (50.8% of 2754 = 1399) (80, 259, 284) Jolly 252 Spe = 426
Typhlosion (62.0% of 2108 = 1307) (100, 299, 328) Mild/Rash 112 Spe = 264*1.5 = 396

Honchkrow 0 EVs
Typhlosion / Magmortar 12 EVs
Blaziken / Medicham 72 EVs
Hitmonlee 120 EVs

Obviously 12 EVs should be the minimum so Blaziken can Superpower Typhlosion and Magmortar. 72 EVs gives with a spread of 184 Atk / 252 SpA / 72 Spe and using 120 EVs leaves a spread of 136 Atk / 252 SpA / 120 Spe (both of these are > 120 Atk which was one of the numbers we found from calcs). I don't really care too much either way but maybe someone smarter can use the numbers in this post to figure out an optimal spread?

 

[cim]

And now for something completely different...

[SET]
name: Reversal
move 1: Reversal
move 2: Blaze Kick
move 3: Substitute / Endure
move 4: Swords Dance
item: Salac Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Do we really need Reversal? I don't think anyone's actually tried it (otherwise Swords Dance would NOT be the last move and Blaze Kick would not be your Fire move lol). The set comments are not well written and the set is clearly not fully thought out.

<p>This set has the potential to be a very dangerous late game sweeper, but it can only work effectively if all your opponent's priority attackers are gone, and Sandstorm or Hail are not in play. With two nice STABs and Blaze, as well as the rarity of Hail and Sandstorm, Blaziken has the capability to pull off a Reversal set. At one HP with a Swords Dance under its belt, Blaziken OHKOes almost all of the metagame with SR in play with a 200 base power Reversal and a 127.5 base power Blaze Kick.

Yeah uh why are you using Blaze Kick? It misses. Make a case for me using a move that misses.

To start, you send Blaziken in on a Pokemon who can not break its Substitute or is forced out by Blaziken, and then use Substitute.

How about an example of Pokémon who can't break a Blaziken Sub? (there aren't any)

After your opponent switches, if the Pokemon sent in is faster, use Substitute until Salac Berry activates, and if it's slower, use Swords Dance, then Substitute down until you get your Speed boost. Endure can work as well, if you Swords Dance on a Pokemon that can not OHKO you, and then Endure the hit that would otherwise KO. However, Substitute is prefered as you are blocked from status moves.</p>

But the set doesn't actually work even in theorymon without Swords Dance. Endure basically guarantees you a Swords Dance with Blaziken, while Sub is only useful if you think Pokémon are going to status you but if you do you can just switch out anyway. You completely forgot to mention that if Stealth Rock is in play, the entire set is fucked with Substitute and not Endure. One battle of testing and you would have seen this.

<p>This set needs a Pokemon which can lure out priority attackers such as Hitmontop, Ambipom and Azumarill. Hitmontop will be seen on almost every team with Moltres, so if you have a Pokemon who can use Stealth Rock and explode, that's exactly what you need. Registeel, Regirock, and Steelix can do this quite well, as they can all survive one Fighting-type attack, and explode. The flaw with this strategy, however, is that Hitmontop may Rapid Spin before an Explosion, so it's best to land Thunder Wave on Hitmontop before hand. Claydol with Psychic also hurts Hitmontop, so it's a good bet as well. Ambipom is rather difficult to isolate and destroy, because it has a fast U-turn, and often switches out. Your best bet is to throw attacks at it early in the game with set up Pokemon, because Ambipom will likely Taunt them to prevent set up. Azumarill is also quite tricky, but your best bet here is to use Shaymin who can take Azumarill's attacks and send him packing with a Seed Flare.</p>

Wait, why would an SR + Explosion pokemon (you don't actually name any) beat priority pokemon? First of all, the only way Hitmontop would come directly into an SR Exploder is if it knew the Pokémon had SR and no other threatening moves (sorry Psychic Claydol). Not many fall into this category!

How again does Shaymin "lure" Azumarill? Will any sane Azumarill user keep it in on Shaymin?

Basically all of those "lures" aren't actually lures.

<p>Due to this strategies being difficult to pull off, and with the addition of a possible weather effect in play (which can be remedied by using Sunny Day on one of your Pokemon), this set is significantly harder to pull off than the others, but if you do set it up, then the rewards are truly amazing.</p>

The set comments are out of date (weather in UU is so horribly uncommon that if you face someone using a Hippopotas or Snover you'll automatically beat them for sucking anyway).

Insert obligatory eye roll at "the results are truly amazing" here. How is it more amazing than any other sweep? Amazing that you got the set to work? :P

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

When you mention the alternate spread for the Mixed Priority Attacker, take out Omastar as a reason to run more attack.

LO Fire Blast to 252/0 Omastar: 350 Atk vs 176 Def & 344 HP (120 Base Power): 83 - 98 (24.13% - 28.49%)

LO HP Electric to 252/0 Omastar: 350 Atk vs 176 Def & 344 HP (70 Base Power): 260 - 306 (75.58% - 88.95%)

LO 72 Atk Superpower to 252/252+ Omastar: 294 Atk vs 383 Def & 344 HP (120 Base Power): 258 - 306 (75.00% - 88.95%)

That's like a 97% or higher chance of 2KO, 100% with SR, and still a 50% chance of 2KO even if the Fire Blast rolls minimum damage after Lefties.

 

[Heysup]

That is literally exactly what I meant when I said "Blaziken can act as its own lure", lol.

The only way I can see all that Attack working is with Agility as well, which is why I'm glad this conclusion was reached...keep the 72 Atk spread as the Mixed Priority Attacker (and mention the stallbusting merits of using more Atk in the comments), and use the more Atk-oriented spread with Agility over Vacuum Wave and HP Electric over HP Grass for a "Mixed Agility Sweeper" set or something like that, explaining how it can act as its own lure, then stat up later to sweep.

Well it was more directed at the fact that you said this:

And now for something completely different...

Do we really need Reversal? I don't think anyone's actually tried it (otherwise Swords Dance would NOT be the last move and Blaze Kick would not be your Fire move lol). The set comments are not well written and the set is clearly not fully thought out.

Well thinking that no one has actually tried it doesnt actually help this analysis at all. I have tested this and the SubPetaya set AND this set. They both "work", but this set just outclassed it by not having any "actual" counters.

The only way to stop it, is with either: Priority, Weather, and a "Faster" scarfer (you dont see Pokemon run a choice scarf with higher than 284 Speed, Roserade is basically the only common exception).

Swords Dance and Blaze Kick are both explained in the analysis by the way, if you care to look.

When you mention the alternate spread for the Mixed Priority Attacker, take out Omastar as a reason to run more attack.

LO Fire Blast to 252/0 Omastar: 350 Atk vs 176 Def & 344 HP (120 Base Power): 83 - 98 (24.13% - 28.49%)

LO HP Electric to 252/0 Omastar: 350 Atk vs 176 Def & 344 HP (70 Base Power): 260 - 306 (75.58% - 88.95%)

LO 72 Atk Superpower to 252/252+ Omastar: 294 Atk vs 383 Def & 344 HP (120 Base Power): 258 - 306 (75.00% - 88.95%)

That's like a 97% or higher chance of 2KO, 100% with SR, and still a 50% chance of 2KO even if the Fire Blast rolls minimum damage after Lefties.

....You forgot a very important calc SDS.

LO 236 Atk Superpower to 252/252 +Omastar: 335 Atk vs 383 Def & 344 HP (120 Base Power): 296 - 350 (86.05% - 101.74%)

Thats a 87.18% chance to OHKO with SR in play.

OHKOes > 2HKOes, leave it in.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I don't care what I do to it if it's not switching into Fire Blast. Take it out.

 

[Heysup]

I don't care what I do to it if it's not switching into Fire Blast. Take it out.

Are you arguing against the fact that a OHKO is better than 2HKO? Cause that is just silly. A OHKO allows you to revenge kill Omastar while a 2HKO doesnt. A OHKO allows YOU not to be revenge killed by Omastar either.

Logically it should stay. OHKO is better than a 2HKO, whether you care or not :/. Im off to sleep.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

"Revenge Kill" is pretty shitty. Either it's in the rain, in which Vacuum Wave is the best you're doing (and you're doing pretty damn well with it, dealing around 79% to 0/0), or it's a defensive one, and it's switching into you (or switching out at the threat of HP Grass/Superpower). It's gotta be one of these two things, because that's really all there is. As such, you don't "need" to OHKO.