Blissey -- The Only Special Wall?

Raithe

I suppose I'm probably not alone in my hatred for the Pink Puffball. I've been trying really hard to come up with viable Special Walls that aren't Blissey, but the more and more time I spend thinking on it, the more it seems to sink in that Blissey really is all there is this generation.

But I hate the damn thing, and I really want to figure out if there are ways around using it.

I've heard a lot about Blissey shaping up to be the only Special Wall in D/P, and for the most part, I can't see any reason why that's not true, but I'd like to discuss why that's so, specifically. Is it just the heavily offensive direction the game seems to be taking that's keeping everything but Blissey from really performing here?
 
Whats wrong with Snorlax?
And Slowbro, Suicune, Milotic, Mespirit, Cresselia, and Spiritomb somewhat.
 
AG Alakazam 2HKOs Max hp max special defense snorlax with focus bomb...and snorlax just cant keep up with stuff like scheming manaphy...
 
Fast special sweepers with already high Special Attack now have access to stuff like Scheme (Nasty Plot ugh), Life Orb, and Choice Specs to boost their SAtk even higher. Due to their lower HP, Snorlax and Regice can't take these boosted hits as well as Blissey. Plus, neither of these two have any recovery moves besides Rest, which is dangerous as it lets opponents set up. And RestTalk severely limits your options.

A good alternate special wall is Cresselia since it has Moonlight (though Sandstorm cuts its usefulness) and a nice Earthquake immunity. It's not going to replace Blissey, but it makes a nice reliable wall.
 
I'm sick of Blissey as well, but yeah, there just aren't any options. It has so much HP and special defense, nothing comes close. It also has a recovery move, and it can do Aroma/Heal Bell, making it incredibly good. It'd be cool if there was a 4th gen poke that could give bliss some competition in terms of special walls, but with the great moves, there isn't all that many.
 
I'm rather fond of Dusknoir, the anti-wall wall. Pain Split against real walls is really fun, as is Pain Split + Shadow Sneak, which sort of solves its Ghost weakness, and most Dark attackers barring Houndoom have now gone physical with Crunch and Pursuit.

Bulky waters don't make good special walls because of the huge investment in DEF Evs already leaving you with very little for SPDEF barring surprise Mirror Coating Milotic/Suicune.
 
Does anyone think Registeel might see a handful of use? It doesn't have a recovery move but 438 SDef and having 9 resists is pretty hot (as well as Sandstorm and Toxic immunity), and unlike Bliss it doesn't cave in to physical attackers easily. It has problems with Manaphy and Fire types but aside from that it isn't half bad, only thing that stops it from what I see is the aforementioned lack of recovery move.

At the very least I hope some people give it a go. Blissey is boring.
 
Snorlax may have been a good sp. wall in D/P if it had gotten Slack off, however with rest it can provide free set up turns for sweepers. I agree that Blissey is very boring but it is very effective at it's job and it seems like the only sure fire sp. wall in this generation.
 
Maybe the mentality "see special Pokemon, switch to special wall" is finally over? Not being able to simply switch to your 100% surefire counter to X might be a good thing for the game. I say might be, because in all likelihood people will just put Blissey on every single team and not bother with removing the concept of a "wall" =[
 
Choice glasses uses can be beaten the same way strong CBers were in advance...Prediction + Typing.
 
Micky Onimusha said:
Does anyone think Registeel might see a handful of use? It doesn't have a recovery move but 438 SDef and having 9 resists is pretty hot (as well as Sandstorm and Toxic immunity), and unlike Bliss it doesn't cave in to physical attackers easily. It has problems with Manaphy and Fire types but aside from that it isn't half bad, only thing that stops it from what I see is the aforementioned lack of recovery move.

At the very least I hope some people give it a go. Blissey is boring.
Click to expand...

Registeel has several issues, for one that it gives even more free switch-ins than Blissey does. At least Blissey Seismic Tosses everything for a relatively solid 100 damage, and uses Ice Beam for more damage against some of the most common Pokemon in the game as well as touching Ghosts (mostly Gengar). Registeel simply doesn't have great STAB to work with and its Attack is the epitome of average (75) which just doesn't (or shouldn't) cut it in DP. Having a wall is useless when it just sits there doing nothing. It can only Rest as well and gives just as much set-up away as Snorlax does there, except that it doesn't even pose a threat when awake, except with things like Explosion, Counter and Thunder Wave. It's a great switch-in against some Choice Glasses stuff of course, but if there's anything that replaces Blissey, it's not Registeel.
 
Mekkah said:
Registeel has several issues, for one that it gives even more free switch-ins than Blissey does. At least Blissey Seismic Tosses everything for a relatively solid 100 damage, and uses Ice Beam for more damage against some of the most common Pokemon in the game as well as touching Ghosts (mostly Gengar). Registeel simply doesn't have great STAB to work with and its Attack is the epitome of average (75) which just doesn't (or shouldn't) cut it in DP. Having a wall is useless when it just sits there doing nothing. It can only Rest as well and gives just as much set-up away as Snorlax does there, except that it doesn't even pose a threat when awake, except with things like Explosion, Counter and Thunder Wave. It's a great switch-in against some Choice Glasses stuff of course, but if there's anything that replaces Blissey, it's not Registeel.
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Registeel gets Seismic Toss in the same way as Blissey and Thunder Wave should serve as a fine enough threat to most Special Sweepers. 75 is just as average as Blissey's Special Attack stat. Really, to me it seems the thing setting them apart the most is Softboiled and weaknesses which unfortunately are things of huge significance. It really kind of suffers from not being able to capitalise on what it has over Blissey, but as you mentioned, it can switch in on a lot of Choice Specs stuff without having to give a free turn using a Recovery move (like Blissey would). It can somewhat viably use physical attacks, Explosion mainly (but also Earthquake and Ice Punch) and its physical defence is fairly respectable.

I certainly don't expect Registeel to ever replace Blissey but it could possibly stand a chance at filling the niche spot Regice had in the last gen as a Special Wall, especially since Regice is being knocked out of favour with the welcoming on Stealth Rocks. At the very least it isn't a piss-poor special wall. Azelf doesn't want to be TWaved, neither does Raikou as well as the large bulk of Special Attackers and the Pokemon Blissey would hit with Ice beam can all be hit with Ice Punch (albeit for what will likely be a little bit less damage). It's just really a matter of how to slap it all into a single set without having a major inferiority complex to Blissey but also without failing at beating the stuff that Blissey can.

/needs to go dig up a Registeel topic to see if this has been discussed.

Edit: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16139&

There we go. Although it wasn’t discussed in great detail
 
The thing I dont like about registeel is that even though he can wall a MS (I dont know the english name) from salamence, the second time around, he wont be taking that fire blast very well. The thing about blissey is that it walls special sweepers and does a very, VERY good job of it. (unlike skarmory who can wall, but still loses to in fight) Cresselia has been working really well for me on wifi, but sometimes I use it and blissey lol.
 
Probopass won't harm anything. It's best move is Flash Cannon (75 S.Atk Base). It will have trouble to even 3hko Azelf(no Leftovers), even Stoss does better, which it can't learn. And Magnet Rise sucks if you have to switch in. Seems that Gamefreak just throws together Pokemon with high stats, so that they can say the game is "balanced"....
 
I'm not talking about Probopass attacking anyone Marowak, I'm talking about him walling things, according to my calculations Alakzam could just kill it , but it may leave it with very little HP. Still it is a problem for the ole 'pass, but I serisouly think he has wide potential since the use of 'Zam will be decreased...

EDIT: Proof that despite horrific typing Probo can do some decent stuff

T-Tar (max stat and beneficial nature for attack) + Earthquake would leave between 260 - 300 damage on a fully defense trained Probopass.

Admittedly this would leave 'pass with low HP, but it is proof it can survive a 4x weakness and not be OHKO'd by it. Put rest in, leftovers and magnet rise, Probopass would do fine...

T-Tar (same as above) + Stone Edge = 117-138 damage on Probopass...

As you can probably see I like Probopass...

Exploding Max Attack Azelf - 153-181 damage...

Waterfalling un-DD Gyarados - 150-176 damage...plus Probo can score a 4x Thunderbolt back onto Gyara at 220-260 damage, 328-360 for Thunder (but the accuracy sucks), but this is for a max sp.def Gyara, it is unlikely it would have been EV'd in Sp.Def. Although i'm now seeing a common strategy for switching in Electivire on the electric attack to get a speed bonus...

Infernape + Flare Blitz - 194-230 damage
Infernape + Earthquake - 220 -260 damage
Infernape + Close Combat - 388-460 damage (He gets owned here...)
 
What good is Probopass taking damage if he can't do anything back? Walling consists not only of taking damage, but also doing reliable damage to things, which Probopass cannot do. Probopass cannot wall anything if all they need to do is keep attacking, since you lack a recovery move and cannot do anything at all besides sit there and wait to die.

Also, way to go calculating how much Explosion does on a Rock/Steel Pokemon ._.
 
Probopass gets rest...chesto rest maybe? It is lacking in attacking power though...it can do okay against Gyarados and Manaphy...
 
Re-read what I just posted and tell me how Chesto Rest would help. At best that is a one time use, and yet you still aren't doing anything but taking damage.

You need to *do* something besides just sit there to be an effective wall. Blissey and Registeel have Seismic Toss, Snorlax and Regice have good offensive stats and powerful stab moves, Probopass has neither.
 
A counter must be able to safely move in on something w/out fear of being beaten. (sorry jump, I dont have the definition by heart) Probopass can't if he just gets 2hkod. And even if he weren't, what could he possibly do?
 
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