Blue Torrent - OU Rain Dance

Christen

uxie.png
ludicolo.png
kingdra.png
dpmfa145.png
qwilfish.png
kabutops.png


UPDATE
Scizor has been replaced by Kabutops. That makes 4 Swift Swimmers in my team. Rain Dance is now terribly important that I lose if I don't set it up.

Talk about a first post. I'm posting my current Rain Dance team here because I really need help from skilled players. I've been testing my team for quite some time now, and I have a broad viewpoint now of what to expect from battles. Most of the time though, my strategy falls short specially in the late game where a properly set up sweeper takes down my entire team (I'm looking at you Salamence).

Without further ado (and sorry if I'm not creative enough yet to post an attractive design), here's the team.

uxie.png

Uxie @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Sdef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
I was skeptical with Uxie's ability to set up rain since he loses to speed if I went with a bulky build. But then he doesn't die from most leads before being able to setup an early 8-turn rain. Stealth Rock is there if he can set it up but optional. Thunder Wave cripples faster leads that most of the time, will not let me set up both rain and SR. If taunted, I can usually U-turn to Zapdos for him to setup rain instead.

ludicolo.png

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Rain Dance
My late game sweeper. In case that it's not raining, it can set it up on it's own provided it will survive the next hit. It might need Reflect support from Bronzong or I'm thinking if I should ditch RD for Protect specially at late game where Outrage is common in my battles. Looking at it, this is probably my only DD'ed Salamence counter if it's raining, otherwise it's over.

kingdra.png

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 236 Atk/20 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Waterfall
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Rain Dance
Early to mid-game wall breaker. Signal Beam was ditched since Qwilfish is now on the team. Being able to setup rain himself is good. The 20 speed EVs allow him to outspeed similar Kingdra builds that I was having trouble with. I might still adjust this depending on other Kingdra builds I encounter. I lost to a Sub-DDing Kingdra since I wasn't prepared for it.

dpmfa145.png

Zapdos @ Damp Rock
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Rain Dance
- Roost
As recommended, I got Zappy with Thunderbolt and HP Ice for both Gyarados and Salamence. I still decided for a physically bulky build due to the fact that most people throw a Stone Edge at him. Though I might switch to a sweeper build if my testing proves that it's better.

kabutops.png

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 200 HP/252 Atk/56 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
I might replace X-Scissor with SD or RD depending on how often he can set it up himself since we want him to start attacking as soon as possible. I'm considering putting Focus Sash on him if I ever put Swords Dance, as it will most of the time KO pokemon under the rain. Aqua Jet is there for unsuspecting Scizors since most of the time, they don't invest in speed. X-Scissor is there to ward off opposing Ludicolos (not that many people use him), common psychics or celebi if I decide to put it. Suicune still proves to be a problem, that's why I'm highly considering SD. He also double resists fire which proves helpful.

qwilfish.png

Qwilfish @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Explosion
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
I can't believe how effective this one was in sweeping in rain. Having SR on field usually means this pokemon will take out 1-2 pokemon only. If there are problems with this pokemon it would be facing fellow swift swimmers. I'm still considering Kabutops for the position of physical sweeper over Qwilfish, but this means I might not be able to take out some pokemon before Kabutops is able to set up.

******************
Here are the common threats to my team that really needs working:
Bulky Gyarados
Explosion doesn't kill him if I get it off, and my only real counter to him is Zappy.
Timid Heatran
Only Kingdra can wall Heatran in my team, but that means I'd be exposing Kingdra early which I don't want if possible. Rain will halve his fire attacks, but that doesn't mean they pack a punch, specially for my Scizor.
Timid Porygon-Z
He's becoming more and more frequent, and he can actually take down most of my pokes before they even hit. This is the only poke I don't have much experience yet, but most of the time when I face it, I have trouble.
DD Salamence
Absence of a phazer on my team hurts. He's a common switch in to my Scizor because of Intimidate. When I switch out to a counter, they DD. If I have rain going on, I'll win, but if not I lose. Zappy now handles him with HP Ice just in case, but switching in is not a good idea.
Bulky Suicune
Cannot be taken out easily with one explosion, Ludicolo has trouble if at least one CM has been setup. Scizor's BP doesn't help as well. Here's one area I really need to be prepared with.

So there, I would really appreciate comments and suggestions to my team. I've been playing with it and I like how it plays so far. It's just I know that I still need adjustments on areas I might have overlooked and those I'm particularly having trouble with. Thanks in advance.
 
Okay, I think I can help, since my main team is a Rain Dancing one. My team is quite different from yours, though.

Azelf: Stealth Rock is probably going to be on the field, since you can't Taunt forever. If you're going to use Azelf, be sure to set up and Explode as soon as you can. If a suicide lead is important to your team, a Trick Scarf Uxie is recommended, which can cripple a wall, set up both rocks and Rain, and can use Memento to set up.

Ludicolo: It's the standard sweeper set, what else can I say?

Kingdra: You use a similar mixed Kingdra to mine, though I personally use a Lonely one with 240 Special Attack EVs and 252 Attack EVs. However, I may prefer your variant! It can still 2HKO Blissey, which is the main point of Waterfall, and Hydro Pump can have a guaranteed OHKO against stuff like standard Metagross. You may want to ditch Signal Beam for Rain Dance. Celebi is not a guaranteed OHKO unless you have Stealth Rock.

Zapdos: I don't think Sleep Talk works well on the same set as Rain Dance. Switch Rest to Roost and replace Sleep Talk with either Hidden Power Ice/Grass (depending on whether you have bigger problems with Dragons or Swampert). You may want to replace Thunder with Thunderbolt, since Drizzle does not exist in OU. Many weather teams may be tempted by the power of Thunder and Solarbeam, but reliability is preferred in most cases (except Blizzard in Hail, since Snow Warning is available).

Scizor: Your Scizor doesn't fit into a Rain Dance team very well as it is, but it can with some adjustment. Change the EVs to 252 HP, 240 Special Defense, and 16 Attack. The moveset should be Rain Dance, Bullet Punch, U-Turn, and Roost. This will give you a bulky Rain Dancer that can slow U-Turn to a sweeper.

Bronzong: I used this Bronzong for a while. It's a reliable Stealth Rocker, but dies too soon to wall anything, and having two suicide setup Pokemon is not the best idea. You lack a dedicated physical sweeper on your team (once you make the Scizor fit in better), and all Rain teams have a vulnerability to Toxic Spikes. I can suggest Swords Dance Qwilfish with Waterfall, Poison Jab, and Explosion to fit both niches. It wants 252 Attack, 92 HP, and 164 Speed. It can also hurt Celebi with one of its STABs, making Signal Beam on Kingdra unnecessary.
 
I tried some of your suggestions, and while some of them didn't fit my style, the rest were helpful when I tested them

I kept Azelf as a lead as Uxie was losing a lot. Trick and Rain Dance doesn't fit too well since most of the time, players attack Uxie. I might still test Uxie for a while because I had some good matches with him too.

Scizor's change to a bulky one was nice. Because Scizor became an RD'er, I could switch Zapdos to my older poke. I'll update the team list later for that as I want some opinion on the matter

Here's Zapdos replacement:
Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Sleep Talk
Status absorber ScarfCross. Originally it was Adamant, but seeing max speed timid scarf heatran was the bane of my team, so I decided to switch to timid to outrun him. Also beats Breloom but needs luck with Megahorn's shaky accuracy. The issues here is another weakness to fire. If rain isn't up, most fire attacks guarantee a OHKO. Otherwise, it OHKOs most pokes that give my team trouble sans Gyarados and Salamence due to their Intimidate.

The switch from Zong to Qwilfish, was surprisingly effective. Qwilfish takes out 1-3 pokes if SR is not set up, 1 if it was set up provided it is raining.
 
welcome to smogon christen,

i'm not a rain dance expert but i have experimented a little so i'll give you what i can. adman had the right idea about adding qwilfish, although zong is arguably one of the sturdier set-uppers of rd. the problem with your original team was that you were lacking rd sweepers; the whole point of a rain dance team is to set up rain and sweep before it runs out.

so that being said, rd teams usually don't care about stealth rock as much, since you really don't want to waste any precious turns of rain switching between pokes. explosion is a great way to get a sweeper in against a damaged opponent, but if you feel like they're gonna switch in a normal resist like tyranitar or dusknoir, u-turn can still get a counter against whatever they bring in. i would replace psychic on azelf since an rd lead isn't meant to stay in and attack, it's meant to set up rain and get the hell out of there so a sweeper can come in and start bashing stuff.

if you do decide to use uxie, i would suggest a bulky spread with both rain dance and stealth rock. rain teams can cause a lot of switches and the extra sr damage can help you get those important kos easier, especially against sr weak pokes like gyarados and salamence. something like

uxie@damp rock
252hp / 252def / 4sdef
- rain dance
- stealth rock
- u-turn
- reflect / yawn / thunder wave / protect

the last slot is up to you. reflect/light screen for team support, yawn to force a switch, twave to cripple a sweeper, protect to scout/block explosion/general utility.

having a status absorber is fine if you really hate status, but rain sweepers really hate paralysis, since it completely negates swift swim, and your heracross can't absorb it without losing the advantage of its scarf. a mamoswine could serve as a twave absorber while also functioning as a salamence check with ice shard, although the rain would power up se water attacks. your zappy is actually a decent check against gyara and mence if you ev is defensively and replace rest with hp ice (i don't think a resttalker really has a place on a fast-paced rain offense team). if you predict an outrage coming your way try to switch in scizor since it's your only dragon resist.

hope this helps, good luck with your team
 
Ok, I said screw it and tried Zappy for Heracross, only this time. I use Uxie as my sleep absorber since he doesn't come back to the field unless to set up rain. Updates are now in the topic post. I also added one to the threat list.

I'm also considering Kabutops over Qwilfish or Scizor. He might prove to be a very useful physical sweeper.
 
Awesome RD team. Couple of things to note:
1.Kingdra- Make sure that after the Swift swim boost you outspeed 394 i think thats jolt making sure you outspeed everything WITHOUT a scarf in OU Ninjask of course.

2.Empoleon? An Absolute beast in rain. Torrent/Pataya/Alli incredibly beast and with the rain its uber no doubt. Look up Smogons strategy dex for some insight into this ferocious sweeper in rain.

3.Definately consider the Kabutops over Qwilfish.

4. Zong is much more reliable than Uxie.

5.Just to say. All your sweeper are swift swimmers... That isn't the Only ability that uses rain. Definately think of a stall Ludicolo with raindish. Azumarill is One of the best users of the rain. Slap a CB on that thing and in rain with Aqua jet STAB and pure power it can ruin teams easy. Definitely a big posibillity over qwilfish.

6. Scizor is very strange with RD. Though the drop in fire moves in rain looks awesome the fact is it still will ruin Scizor with a quad weakness.

7.Gator? My own invention actually:

JawGrip (Feraligatr) (M) @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Ice Punch

Idea is get a DD up and sub until you get the torrent and Liechi. EV and IV is important hit at a divisable number of 4 allowing you to get the liechi after 3 subs. i think the IV is 30 HP and 4HP evs.

Good Luck,

SF(strategyfocus)
 
Rain Dish's extra recovery may be tempting, but Sub Seeding is much easier with the speed boost from Swift Swim.

Qwilfish is suggested not so much for its power (though Explosion helps), but rather for the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, which are otherwise a problem with a team like this. Life Orb + Toxic drains health really fast, and destroys Ludicolo's ability to stall.
 
I recommend tacking on a few att EV's on ludicolo and adding focus punch to surprise blissey switchins. Also a Bronzong would be nice in place of Zapdos/heracross. scizor does not a need a damp rock. Instead, I would opt for a bulky scizor with lifeorb/lefties and x-scissor/brickbreak/BP/SD
This set is primarily a late-game sweeper and is great with or without rain. Can also come in on outrages to set up SD and pummel through the rest of your opponents team.

Give my changes a try. LR gave me most of these suggestions and they worked out wonderfully for me. At one point, my rain alt had a 1700-1850 range and a 1500 CRE before I decided to play UU and basically stopped laddering that account.

Good luck.
 
Ok, I tried messing around and completely removed Scizor for Kabutops, thus making my team a complete glass cannon. Surprisingly though, my wins seemed to have improved despite that fact, but I still feel it's not enough testing, so I'll give you the results when I'm done.

Some info I have gathered from my recent testing. Some of them are replies to the posts above.

1. I'm still having trouble with some Kingdra builds. Waterfall is important for my build since a lot of people switch in special walls thinking I will throw a special move at them so I'm reluctant to take away the attack EV's for speed. Again I'm not that good with damage calculations. Can anyone help me on this department?

2. I'm still considering Azelf over Uxie but Uxie survives hits better, doesn't need a Focus Sash so he can set up 8-turn rains. He doesn't die to SR as well. He gets taunted easily though, and doesn't have explosion to clear out potential threats.

3. I ditched Scizor for Kabutops. He's deadly in the rain, even if I only have water attacks at most. He is walled by Vaporeon though, but then again I have a specific counter for that. I'm wondering though if I should still put SD on his set since we already hits hard with rain support.

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 200 HP/252 Atk/56 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
I might replace X-Scissor with SD or RD depending on how often he can set it up himself. Aqua Jet is there for unsuspecting Scizors since most of the time, they don't invest in speed. X-Scissor is there to ward off common psychics or celebi. Suicune still proves to be a problem, that's why I'm highly considering SD. He also double resists fire which proves helpful.

4. Zapdos with HP Ice proves to be useful (I can scare off Swamperts thinking I have HP Grass if I haven't used them already).

Problems still arise which is inevitable. CMSuicunes prove to be one, as Zappy can't easily take him down, and boosted Surfs from the opponent definitely hit. WishProtect Vaporeon are also a problem, though I'm starting to cope with it.
 
Focus Sash on Qwilfish is useless as they are going to set up rocks easily against Uxie and now your item is useless, give it life orb or something else. Also, I feel you're going way too offensive, with four swift swimmers, I suggest Bronzong over one of them as this steel resistance will help, I suggest this:

Bronzong@Damp Rock/Light Clay
Impish nature
Levitate
evs-252HP/128Atk/128Def
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Rain Dance
-Explosion
 
I am at that point where I'm testing out potential leads like Metagross. Focus Sash Qwilfish is a hard switch in with SR, but he never gave problems for me so far.

I'll ask for a different type of advice this time. We all know it's near impossible to get a Zapdos with HP Ice in game so I can use it for wi-fi. Are there any viable replacements for him (wifi in mind) while still being able to serve as good checks for Gyarados and Salamence?
 
My god, I suddenly just realised what you could use, Starmie will fit this role perfectly, use this spread:

Starmie@Damp Rock
Timid nature
Natural Cure
Evs-252HP/40SAtk/216Spd or something like that
-Rain Dance
-Ice Beam
-Thunder
-Surf
You could always put recover there but without Ice Beam you dont have anything to really hurt Salamence, and then Surf boosted by Rain Dance and never missing Thunder are hard to turn down-this should survive a +1 hit from Gyarados-as long as it isnt Bounce-and OHKO with Thunder, and its a good check to Salamence.
 
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