Board Game Based Meta-Games




King (Goodra) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Gooey
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Focus Punch
- Iron Tail

Queen (Greninja) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Acrobatics
- Shadow Sneak

Rook (Bisharp) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Bishop (Espeon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Pawn (Charmander) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 44 HP / 12 Def / 200 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ancient Power
- Dragon Pulse

Knight (Charizard) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Roost


A Greninja Setup + avoid Rapid Spin team.
 
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King (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast

Queen (Kangaskhan) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Double-Edge

Rook (Talonflame) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Bishop (Mr. Mime) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Filter
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Healing Wish

Pawn (Binacle) @ Eviolite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 100 HP / 180 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Cross Chop
- Stone Edge

Knight (Barbaracle) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab

Speedy Offensive Team
 

emma

i hope it breaks you in two
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I remember the days when the Chess room had 30 users at most, now we're up to a 70 user average to yay :D

Chessmons is actually a lot of fun so I've built some teams with it and I decided to share them to help other people play too. They aren't the greatest but they can win and are fun :]


King (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 192 Atk / 88 Def / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

Queen (Salamence-Mega) (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return
- Refresh

Rook (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin

Bishop (Rotom-Heat) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Pain Split

Knight (Amoonguss) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Clear Smog
- Grass Knot

Pawn (Foongus) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Stun Spore
- Toxic
- Grass Knot


Tyranitar was added first for its ability to set up sand with it's ability (obv). EVs seem a bit whack but they help against the primals - 228 Spe EVs and a Jolly Nature outspeeds the standared offense Primal Kyogre set so it can 2HKO with Stone Edge or revenge kill late game. 88 Def EVs allow you to survive the standared support Primal Groudon's Earthquake most of the time. Standard Salamence is another win con beside SD Excadrill and provides a switch in to fighting type moves with the Flying Typing and Intimidate pre mega. Excadrill thrives in sand and provides the team's win condition with SD and Sand Rush. Rotom-H can check water and grass types with it's STAB moves and switches in to Primal Groudon and can wear it down with Toxic. It also provides momentum with Volt Switch. AV Amoonguss is needed on this team for Primal Kyogre, the item and the investment allows it to not be 2hkod from 252+ Ice Beam and can hit back with Grass Knot. Foonguss punishes physical attackers with Rocky Helmet and Effect Spore and can sleep, paralyze, or toxic threats. Overall, the team struggles a bit with the Primals (Hence AV Amoonguss, Toxic Rotom-H, Jolly Tyranitar w/ EQ) but its not unwinnable.



King (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

Queen (Deoxys-Attack) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psycho Boost
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

Rook (Landorus-Therian) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 244 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Bishop (Galvantula) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Sticky Web
- Volt Switch
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Knight (Excadrill) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Pawn (Drilbur) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Sandstorm
- Toxic


NP Dexoys-A is an idea that I got from playing in Doubles so I decided to bring it here. Subsitute is for Sucker Punch mindgames and Focus Blast hits Tyranitar and Dark Types in general. Added Landorus-T and Galvantula for a VoltTurn core while also offering great offensive pressure vs. the Primals. Galvantula also provides Webs support for our next member - CB Tyranitar. 248 Speed w/ a non boosting natures outspeeds base 100 with 252 Spe EVs and a boosting nature after Webs which helps a lot vs. Mega Kangaskhan for example. Still needed Rocks, Rapid Spin, and hopefully another wincon so Excadril and Drilbur were perfect. Another sand setter, wincon, and a rocker helps support the team a lot. Overall, lots of fun :]


E: Fixed some sets to improve matchups :)
 
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Love playing chessmons here is a team that I would like to share.

King (Dragonite) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage

Queen (Xerneas) @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 184 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Focus Blast

Knight (Gengar) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind

Bishop (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Pawn (Gastly) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Pain Split
- Trick
- Hypnosis

rook (Heatran) @ Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Taunt
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock


You can lead gastly and use trick to nullify one of your opponents. Heatran has rocks to break any sash users. Porygon and gengar did hard to weaken any pokemon that may live after Xerneas sets up. Dragonite is also a physical sweeper if wanted.
 
Nice VR, thanks blalib :]

There are a few things that are pretty out of place though, I was reading through the queens list and a few mons in particular caught my attention:

This thing is outclassed in every way by Deoxys-Attack. It's not a bad mon, but there's no reason to use it on any serious team. Unrank this imo

Why would you want to waste your queen on a suicide lead? Sure Greninja's more reliable than all the pawns, but good luck applying offensive pressure when you're down to three OUs, a UU and an LC. Also as far as I can tell, there's no way to make your pawn useful on HO unless it's a suicide lead, so you're basically down 4-6 with no queen. It can use taunt and prevent rapid spin with shadow sneak I guess, and the fact that no one uses magic bouncers is good for it too. Still nowhere near C+ though, I'd say C- or Unranked

Same deal as Greninja, except it gets anti-led by any rapid spinner. It can anti-lead Darkrai and other Greninja though, and it actually gets Stealth Rock, so I'd say it's about as good as Greninja. C- or Unranked

(Fairy)
These should probably be ranked too

Maybe I would rank some of these too, I haven't used or seen any of them on a serious team yet but they're worth testing; I wouldn't be surprised if a few were good enough for C or C-. Mega Scizor especially is probably about as viable as Genesect in a meta where Mega-Evolving carries basically no opportunity cost

This thing's kind of a weird case; it should be viable but no one uses Darkrai or Ho-oh for some reason, and Lugia's pretty rare too, so it runs out of things to check. Magic bounce isn't that useful either in a meta where most teams are offensive and the most common suicide lead has earthquake and mold breaker. It's not that good now, but it'll probably get better after a few weeks of meta

There are a few other nitpicks I have for the queens list, but those are the big ones. Nice job though and thanks again for making the VR blalib :]

Edit: I also wanna bring up UltiMario's point about about the whole "Only king and queen can mega" rule. It's really restrictive on teambuilding, and it's hard enough as it is to check all the threats of the Uber tier with a Chessmons team. It also unnecessarily makes a lot of otherwise good megas unviable or borderline unviable, and a lot of teams end up going without a mega at all just so they don't fall into one of the same few builds. Chessmons would be a lot better without this rule IMO.
 
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This thing is outclassed in every way by Deoxys-Attack. It's not a bad mon, but there's no reason to use it on any serious team. Unrank this imo

Why would you want to waste your queen on a suicide lead? Sure Greninja's more reliable than all the pawns, but good luck applying offensive pressure when you're down to three OUs, a UU and an LC. Also as far as I can tell, there's no way to make your pawn useful on HO unless it's a suicide lead, so you're basically down 4-6 with no queen. It can use taunt and prevent rapid spin with shadow sneak I guess, and the fact that no one uses magic bouncers is good for it too. Still nowhere near C+ though, I'd say C- or Unranked

Same deal as Greninja, except it gets anti-led by any rapid spinner. It can anti-lead Darkrai and other Greninja though, and it actually gets Stealth Rock, so I'd say it's about as good as Greninja. C- or Unranked

(Fairy)
These should probably be ranked too

Maybe I would rank some of these too, I haven't used or seen any of them on a serious team yet but they're worth testing; I wouldn't be surprised if a few were good enough for C or C-. Mega Scizor especially is probably about as viable as Genesect in a meta where Mega-Evolving carries basically no opportunity cost

This thing's kind of a weird case; it should be viable but no one uses Darkrai or Ho-oh for some reason, and Lugia's pretty rare too, so it runs out of things to check. Magic bounce isn't that useful either in a meta where most teams are offensive and the most common suicide lead has earthquake and mold breaker. It's not that good now, but it'll probably get better after a few weeks of meta

There are a few other nitpicks I have for the queens list, but those are the big ones. Nice job though and thanks again for making the VR blalib :]
Thank you for your suggestions. Previously the unlisted pokemon you listed I had neither seen nor used while playing chessmons so I did not know their appropriate position. That is now all fixed. As far as the changes you requested, I agree with the idea of Deoxys-Normal and Deoxys-Speed dropping. Both of these pokemon are outclassed by Deoxys-Attack. They have been moved down to D-rank. Greninja I think should only drop to C. Greninja has protein (making all attacks stab) as well as decent speed and special attack/ attack. Greninja can out speed and OHKO most kings (except Goodra and Tyranitar).
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
My opinions on viability rankings:

Rook:
Latias to A+
Healing Wish is an extremely strong move in this format, giving your Queen a 2nd life. Unlike most the HWishers available, Latias is individually strong as a Pokemon for the slot it takes. Due to its fantastic typing, hazard control, ability to check major threats, and Healing Wish, will often pull significantly more work than almost anything else you can run in the metagame. Every single offensive Queen except Xerneas that's already burned Power Herb can make great use of Healing Wish, and no defensive one doesn't appreciate a heal/status cure option. It can only fix your King up in a pinch.

Her only downside is being weak to TTar, but this is something that can be played around with good doubling, and you can't put TTar in as much risk in Chessmons due to his King status making it much less effective as a check. Latias should be a go-to Rook for pretty much anything that isn't HO GeoXern.


Bishop:
PorygonZ to A
Alright so PorygonZ has a lot of power and... that's it, really. I can't really find a way to differentiate Porygon from something like Darmanitan who is also an extreme powerhouse with fundamental drawbacks and Darmanitan is appropriately down in A. PorygonZ doesn't really have anything unique or exciting to offer to consider it in A+ staple imo.


As far as Queens, I'm not sure if MMY should be A+ instead of A but I don't feel confident enough in that statement to really argue it.

If we're going to ever suggest a Knight rankings list, I'd suggest Whimsicott and Forretress around A+. Most good Knights have a prevo with a funny but functional gimmick, but I simply haven't seen any other Pawn pull as much work as Cottonee or Pineco have, with Magnemite/Nosepass being a worse Pineco and their evolutions not necessarily putting in as much utility as Forretress. Other highly rated Knights would likely be "Good Knight with suicide rocker Pawn" Pokemon like Garchomp, Mamoswine, Excadrill, etc.
 
Let me just check out the rankings one by one.
  1. Suicune - Deserves to be S due to insane Bulk [Crocune]

  2. Blissey - Stall is not really dominant in this meta, so imo kick it down to A- or B+.

  3. Chesnaught - Why is this thing A+ when it can't beat any queen (literally), and any king (but Tyranitar). It may be a bulky grass, but if I wanted bulky grass I'd use Foongus/Amoonguss. Move to B+.

  4. Mienshao - Maybe not A+ but still a decent scarfer with HJK. Probably move it to A.

  5. PorygonZ - Haven't seen it in action yet, but I assume its an ok scarfer. Keep it for now, we will see later.

  6. Mamoswine - Personally my favorite, with both Ice and Ground Stab (Goodbye to all kings). Move it to S.

  7. Azelf - I haven't seen this yet either, so I'll say the same thing as I did for Pz.

  8. Cloyster - Not a bad mon, keep it at A.

  9. Darmanitan - Also not bad due to being a good scarfer with fire typing. Keep it at A or move it to A+.

  10. Nidoking - Very good as well, due to sheer coverage (Ice Beam + Earth Power or Ice Punch + EQ). Move to A+.

  11. Forretress - Why use this if you can use Pineco/Forretress as knight? Has no niche, move it to somewhere in the Bs.

  12. Sylveon - Why is Sylveon good? Explanation? I'd move it down to around B; however I would like an explanation on why it's A

  13. Celebi - I haven't seen this yet either, but I would assume it's ok as support. Keep it for now.

  14. Empoleon - I'd rather use Piplup/Empoleon, and this has no niche as a bishop either. Move it to B.

  15. Mandibuzz - A personal favorite as well, just not as a bishop. Move it to B+ due to the fact Vullaby/Mandibuzz is so much better.

  16. Milotic - Never really seen it, but a bit passive. Keep it at A- for now.

  17. Tornadus - Decent support, good coverage. Keep it at A-.

  18. Porygon2 - Very bulky and good support. Move it to A.

  19. Whimsicott - I'd rather use Cottonee/Whimsicott, but the coverage for support (Memento/Stun Spore) is good. Keep it at A-.

  20. Galvantula - I guess this is for hazards? Doesn't make much sense to me as why it is good (No ground moves, weak Ice moves and can't beat most of the kings/queens). I'd move it to B.

  21. Donphan - Nice Ground coverage as well as rocks + rapid spin. Keep it at B+ or move it to A-.

  22. Entei - Very powerful sacred fire; only downfall is its very weak to stealth rocks. However with proper support its very good. Move it to A-/A.

  23. Espeon - Espeon is not good in this meta (Imo) because there are many, many better psychic mons out there. Maybe Magic Bounce, but hazards aren't really that big in this meta (just run anti suicide lead or defog). Move it to B-.

  24. Machamp - I guess this is powerful, and dynamic punch can really screw teams up. Keep it at B+ or move it to A-.

  25. Quagsire - If Blissey is A+, why is Quag only B+? I still think stall is quite nonexistent, and this should move down to B, but it makes no sense why Blissey is so much higher than Quag.

  26. Arcanine - It actually quite good with Flare Blitz/Intimidate. Move it to B+.

  27. Chandelure - I guess its not that bad of a scarfer. Keep it for now.

  28. Gyarados - This thing I think maybe one of the best mons as a bishop. Its got ddance/sub/waterfall/bounce with intimidate can really screw up unprepared teams. Move to A-/A.

  29. Feraligatr - Never seen it before, but I think its not that bad. Keep it at B or move it to B+.

  30. Sableye - Prankster wilowisp can be really helpful. Move to B+ as it can even help out the more offensive teams.

  31. Infernape - I'd rather use chimchar/infernape (ive said that multiple times), but infernape is actually quite good on paper (and in battle). Move to B+.

  32. Gligar - I guess its defensive, but its very passive (and weak to Ice). For now, Keep it at B.
Now I'm just going to say where I think they should go.
  1. Crobat - C+
  2. Nidoqueen - C/C+ (outclassed)
  3. Shaymin - B-
  4. Haxorus - B
  5. Rotom-Heat - C/B-
  6. Tentacruel - B-/B
  7. Umbreon - B-/B
  8. Doublade - C+
  9. Gardevoir - B-
  10. Reuniclus - B-
  11. Roserade - C
  12. Cresselia - erm...this should be like high Bs or low As due to healing wish/toxic/moonlight/moonblast/insane bulk.
  13. Vaporeon - B-
  14. Shuckle - C
  15. Kyurem - I'm suprised Kyurem is so low. Move this to like B+. Scarf Ice beam can do damage.
  16. Crawdaunt - B-
  17. Florges - C+
  18. Krookodile - B
  19. Lucario - B
  20. Snorlax - munchlax/snorlax is better; C
  21. Swampert - C
  22. Dragalge - C
  23. Noivern - C
  24. Cobalion - B-
  25. Heliolisk - C-
  26. Heracross - B
  27. Zoroark - C+
  28. Moltres - C-
  29. Honchkrow - C+
  30. Pangoro - D
  31. Yanmega - C-
  32. Durant - C
  33. Froslass - C+
  34. Venomoth - D
Metagross --> B
Salamence --> A-
Toxicroak --> B
Conkeldurr --> C+
Hydreigon --> B
Goodra --> C

EDIT:
Dugtrio --> C
Magneton --> C
Togetic --> C
Slowking --> C+
Sneasel --> C+
Flygon --> B-
Bronzong --> C
Rhyperior --> C+
Scrafty --> C
Hoopa --> C+
Diancie --> C+
Meloetta --> B-
Virizion --> C

I'll do Queen/Pawn/Rooks later! Stay tuned XD

Paging blalib to come and check out the changes I want to make :D

I'm IronicDouble btw
 
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  1. Clefable - Deserving to be high up, but defintely not S. Drop it to A+.

  2. Keldeo - Sub/CM is one of the best sets for a rook, and specs/scarf can really do damage. Move this to S (its also a personal fav).

  3. Landorus-Therian - A really good Intimidater + Scarfer/Defensive Set. It's EQ does damage, even against queens. Move to S or keep it in A+.

  4. Manaphy - Tail Glow is really intimidating, but you can work around it with Primal groudon/bulky waters/powerful queens. Move it down to A.

  5. Serperior - I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I don't think this is a good rook. It's only niche is really contrary (its a op niche), however serperior can't beat most kings (unless u run hp ice for then u cant run hp fire), and is weak to many queens that outspeed it. I also think snivy/serperior is probably better. Move it to A-.

  6. Weavile - I've never used this, but I think its amazing. Ice Shard/Icicle Crash/Pursuit/Knock Off/SD can really beat up teams, especially ones that are weak to Ice (alot). Pursuit is also a great move for trapping kings and queens. Move it to S because of its sheer presence.

  7. Excadrill - I don't get why you would ever use Excadrill tbh (Landorus is better 100% if ur looking for a scarf) unless you use drilbur/exca. It's pretty slow, has really no niche but a high attack, and would not be recommended IMO. Move it to A-.

  8. Gengar - I've never used gengar either, but I'd assume its not that bad. Problem is that its very frail and can not actually one shot pretty much any queen (or king, i think megameta lives). Also, gastly/gengar is probably better. Move it to A-/B+.

  9. Heatran - Heatran shares very nice synergy with a dragon/flying type (Dnite or Mence) and also is quite defensive. However, it has no recovery move, can get worn out pretty easily, and packs almost no punch vs queens. Move it to A-/B+.

  10. Kyurem-Black - I think this is pretty good (I should use this one day), because of Earth Power + Ice Beam + Outrage = gg. Scarf set, band set, even other sets would probably work. Due to just the sheer power and the versatility, move this to A+/S.

  11. Rotom - I hope you mean rotom-wash, cause nothing else should even be this high. Anyway, Rotom-W is a good pokemon, but it can get worn out easily. However it does have volt switch, as well as wilowisp, hydropump, painsplit, etc. Keep it in A for now.

  12. Amoonguss - No idea why you would use this over foongus/amoonguss (really no clue tbh); and plus its not even good unless you use it on stall (which is pretty nonexistent so yeah). Move this to B.

  13. Chansey - I guess Chansey is pretty much just stall in a nutshell, and it is better than blissey, but once again, stall is really nonexistent. Also, you might want to use Skarm>Chansey just due to the things Skarm can do. Move it to somewhere in the Bs (probably just B).

  14. Ferrothorn - No way would I use this. Like this is like Amoonguss, except worse. If you want to use Ferrothorn, use ferroseed...plus ferrothorn has really no niche but setting up a million hazards, and most ppl carry defog/taunt etc. Move it to B (or B+ if you are generous).

  15. Latias - Honestly, this is better than Latios due to healing wish, so either this goes up or that goes down. Anyway its got excellent support so, move it to A/A+.
  16. Latios - So well the only niche Latios has over Latias is powerful Dracos, but its not a good enough niche to beat healing wish support. Keep it at A-.

  17. Mew - Has support, stealth rocks, roost etc. A bit passive but not that big of a deal. Keep it at A-.

  18. Starmie - Starmie is nice rapid spin, but in general it is way too passive to do anything else. Move it to B+
  19. Talonflame - Talonflame is good due to the high amount of setups, but it cant really beat any kings (but meta) and has trouble with bulky queens like pdon. Keep it at A-.
Ok I'll keep the lower ones very brief, and you can ask if you want explanations. For important mons/out of the ordinary I will explain.
  1. Azumarill - A- (belly drum)
  2. Bisharp - B/B- (pawn/knight)
  3. Breloom - B+ (spore)
  4. Gliscor - B+ (bulk)
  5. Slowbro - B (pawn/knight)
  6. Thundurus - A- (coverage)
  7. Tornadus-Therian - B (not very powerful)
  8. Hippowdon - B- (pawn/knight/ttar for sand)
  9. Jirachi - B+ (flinch hax -.-)
  10. Magnezone - B+ (trap metagross)
  11. Raikou - B (electric isnt really great typing tbh)
  12. Skarmory - B (stall is not that good)
  13. Volcanion - B+ (burn/good typing)
  14. Zapdos - A- (really versatile)
  15. Diggersby - B (quite slow but powerful)
  16. Scizor - B+ (good xerneas counter/pivot)
  17. Tangrowth - B
  18. Victini - B
  19. Volcarona - B-
  20. Scolipede - C
  21. Staraptor - B-
  22. Terrakion - B-
  23. Hawlucha - C
  24. Thundurus-Therian - B
  25. Togekiss - C+
  26. Alakazam - C
  27. Zygarde - C+
OTHER CHANGES SUGGESTIONS:
Dragonite --> B+
Tyranitar --> B
Garchomp --> B+

Maybe we should just have no C rank because there are not that many OU mons. eh?

Paging blalib to come and check out the changes I want to make :D

Comment on what you disagree/agree!

Also check out this if you haven't already!

  1. Suicune - Deserves to be S due to insane Bulk [Crocune]

  2. Blissey - Stall is not really dominant in this meta, so imo kick it down to A- or B+.

  3. Chesnaught - Why is this thing A+ when it can't beat any queen (literally), and any king (but Tyranitar). It may be a bulky grass, but if I wanted bulky grass I'd use Foongus/Amoonguss. Move to B+.

  4. Mienshao - Maybe not A+ but still a decent scarfer with HJK. Probably move it to A.

  5. PorygonZ - Haven't seen it in action yet, but I assume its an ok scarfer. Keep it for now, we will see later.

  6. Mamoswine - Personally my favorite, with both Ice and Ground Stab (Goodbye to all kings). Move it to S.

  7. Azelf - I haven't seen this yet either, so I'll say the same thing as I did for Pz.

  8. Cloyster - Not a bad mon, keep it at A.

  9. Darmanitan - Also not bad due to being a good scarfer with fire typing. Keep it at A or move it to A+.

  10. Nidoking - Very good as well, due to sheer coverage (Ice Beam + Earth Power or Ice Punch + EQ). Move to A+.

  11. Forretress - Why use this if you can use Pineco/Forretress as knight? Has no niche, move it to somewhere in the Bs.

  12. Sylveon - Why is Sylveon good? Explanation? I'd move it down to around B; however I would like an explanation on why it's A

  13. Celebi - I haven't seen this yet either, but I would assume it's ok as support. Keep it for now.

  14. Empoleon - I'd rather use Piplup/Empoleon, and this has no niche as a bishop either. Move it to B.

  15. Mandibuzz - A personal favorite as well, just not as a bishop. Move it to B+ due to the fact Vullaby/Mandibuzz is so much better.

  16. Milotic - Never really seen it, but a bit passive. Keep it at A- for now.

  17. Tornadus - Decent support, good coverage. Keep it at A-.

  18. Porygon2 - Very bulky and good support. Move it to A.

  19. Whimsicott - I'd rather use Cottonee/Whimsicott, but the coverage for support (Memento/Stun Spore) is good. Keep it at A-.

  20. Galvantula - I guess this is for hazards? Doesn't make much sense to me as why it is good (No ground moves, weak Ice moves and can't beat most of the kings/queens). I'd move it to B.

  21. Donphan - Nice Ground coverage as well as rocks + rapid spin. Keep it at B+ or move it to A-.

  22. Entei - Very powerful sacred fire; only downfall is its very weak to stealth rocks. However with proper support its very good. Move it to A-/A.

  23. Espeon - Espeon is not good in this meta (Imo) because there are many, many better psychic mons out there. Maybe Magic Bounce, but hazards aren't really that big in this meta (just run anti suicide lead or defog). Move it to B-.

  24. Machamp - I guess this is powerful, and dynamic punch can really screw teams up. Keep it at B+ or move it to A-.

  25. Quagsire - If Blissey is A+, why is Quag only B+? I still think stall is quite nonexistent, and this should move down to B, but it makes no sense why Blissey is so much higher than Quag.

  26. Arcanine - It actually quite good with Flare Blitz/Intimidate. Move it to B+.

  27. Chandelure - I guess its not that bad of a scarfer. Keep it for now.

  28. Gyarados - This thing I think maybe one of the best mons as a bishop. Its got ddance/sub/waterfall/bounce with intimidate can really screw up unprepared teams. Move to A-/A.

  29. Feraligatr - Never seen it before, but I think its not that bad. Keep it at B or move it to B+.

  30. Sableye - Prankster wilowisp can be really helpful. Move to B+ as it can even help out the more offensive teams.

  31. Infernape - I'd rather use chimchar/infernape (ive said that multiple times), but infernape is actually quite good on paper (and in battle). Move to B+.

  32. Gligar - I guess its defensive, but its very passive (and weak to Ice). For now, Keep it at B.
Now I'm just going to say where I think they should go.
  1. Crobat - C+
  2. Nidoqueen - C/C+ (outclassed)
  3. Shaymin - B-
  4. Haxorus - B
  5. Rotom-Heat - C/B-
  6. Tentacruel - B-/B
  7. Umbreon - B-/B
  8. Doublade - C+
  9. Gardevoir - B-
  10. Reuniclus - B-
  11. Roserade - C
  12. Cresselia - erm...this should be like high Bs or low As due to healing wish/toxic/moonlight/moonblast/insane bulk.
  13. Vaporeon - B-
  14. Shuckle - C
  15. Kyurem - I'm suprised Kyurem is so low. Move this to like B+. Scarf Ice beam can do damage.
  16. Crawdaunt - B-
  17. Florges - C+
  18. Krookodile - B
  19. Lucario - B
  20. Snorlax - munchlax/snorlax is better; C
  21. Swampert - C
  22. Dragalge - C
  23. Noivern - C
  24. Cobalion - B-
  25. Heliolisk - C-
  26. Heracross - B
  27. Zoroark - C+
  28. Moltres - C-
  29. Honchkrow - C+
  30. Pangoro - D
  31. Yanmega - C-
  32. Durant - C
  33. Froslass - C+
  34. Venomoth - D
Metagross --> B
Salamence --> A-
Toxicroak --> B
Conkeldurr --> C+
Hydreigon --> B
Goodra --> C

EDIT:
Dugtrio --> C
Magneton --> C
Togetic --> C
Slowking --> C+
Sneasel --> C+
Flygon --> B-
Bronzong --> C
Rhyperior --> C+
Scrafty --> C
Hoopa --> C+
Diancie --> C+
Meloetta --> B-
Virizion --> C
 
Ranking Changes: 8/31/16
Latias-> A+
Excadrill -> A-
Ferrothron-> B
Volcanion-> B+
Zapdos-> B+
Scizor-> B
Dragonite -> B+
Tyranitar -> B
Garchomp -> B+

Chesnaught-> A-
PorygonZ-> A
Forretress-> B+
Sylveon-> A-
Entei-> A-
Espeon-> B
Gyarados-> A
Sableye-> B+

New pokemon added
Greninja-> C
Deoxys-> D
Deoxys-Speed-> D

No changes

Thank you all for the suggestions.
Keep posting thoughts!
 
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Ranking Changes: 8/31/16
Latias-> A+
Excadrill -> A-
Ferrothron-> B
Volcanion-> B+
Zapdos-> B+
Scizor-> B
Dragonite -> B+
Tyranitar -> B
Garchomp -> B+

Chesnaught-> A-
PorygonZ-> A
Forretress-> B+
Sylveon-> A-
Entei-> A-
Espeon-> B
Gyarados-> A
Sableye-> B+

New pokemon added
Greninja-> C
Deoxys-> D
Deoxys-Speed-> D

No changes

Thank you for the suggestions.
no problem :P
 
I would like to suggest a lot changes to the Pawn/Knight viability ratings.

Chessmons really pushes the idea of HO as there are both too many threats for a 5½ mon team to handle and the pawn often being especially useful in this playstyle as hazard support. While one usually want the pawn and knight to fulfill different functions.

I've reconfigured my own pawn list to match that of viability ratings for Pawn/Knight. Perhaps some of it can be taken as inspiration. This list of course also being very rough.

http://pastebin.com/L5gZTnXW
 
Ranking Changes 9/24/16
Gastly and Gengar -> A
Diglett and Dugtrio -> A-
Gible and Garchomp -> A+
Slowpoke and Slowbro -> B+
Anorith and Armaldo -> C+
Archen and Archeops -> B-


If you have any other suggestions please contact me on Showdown or post right here in the forums!
 

emma

i hope it breaks you in two
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Hello everyone n_n

I want to talk about Dugtrio and Diglett but more specifically, Arena Trap. Currently 2/6 mandatory kings (Tyranitar and Metagross) are both ground weak mons leaving it easy to get trapped by the combination of the Dugtrio and Diglett and end the game quickly. This forces the play who is using one of these mons as their king (and even Goodra because of it's weak physical defense) to play with only 5 mons since if they bring it in at all and get a kill (or get double switched on) they lose the game. Arean Trap also traps and kill Primal Groudon, which is one of the most popular Queens and ranked S in viability. Basically, what I'm saying is that if you are using Tyranitar/Metagross/Goodra as your King you are effectively playing a 5v6. This allows mons like Latios and dragons in general to shine since they dont have to worry about being pursuited by Tyranitar or having to worry about HP Fireing on the Metagross switch in since if they come in, they die and you win. This is a team I built that focuses around Dugtrio + Diglett's ability to trap and kill steels which allows Latios to wallbreak and Xerneas to sweep.

King (Tyranitar) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Queen (Xerneas) @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 184 HP / 28 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Focus Blast

Rook (Latios) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Talk

Bishop (Doublade) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Knight (Dugtrio) @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Memento
- Pursuit

Pawn (Diglett) @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Memento
- Stealth Rock

note: focus sash is a viable option too. The last 2 moves on both mons are also up to debate - i just prefer these the most :D


Now I'm not saying Arena Trap should be banned! I'm just promoting discussion and reviving the thread :)
 
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i have a suggestion to ban primal groundon for these reasons:
-you need to use a pokemon slot just to deal with primal groundon
-no real pokemon below ou can deal with him (only small handful of ou mons can deal with him)
 
Primal Groudon should be banned.
My reasons to ban Primal Groudon:
1.) Very hard to counter in ubers almost impossible to counter in chessmons because you are only allowed to use one ubers pokemon.
2.) Can sweep most teams with little to no help. If Primal Groudon rock polish and swords dance after two turns it can sweep almost every team.
3.) Tanks hits, Primal Groudon has 100 HP and 160 DEF therefore it does not need screens or memento to set up.
4.) One weakness! Only week to ground unless you want to run golduck... -_-
5.) Stab fire moves in the sun unless Primal Kyogre enters the battle field.
6.) Having to use a pokemon that can counter Primal Groudon on your team. Most players are so worried about someone running Primal Groudon they have a pokemon dedicated to countering it.

In my opinion there should be a vote about Primal Groudon.
->Maybe next chessmons tournament we can try without Primal Groudon

If you agree or disagree with any of these ideas please share your thoughts!
 

Josh

=P
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I don't agree, this applies to a lot of ubers. Cm rest talk ogre sweeps tons of teams, any viable set up arceus with recover dominates almost every non ubers mon, deoxys attack is capable of getting a kill literally every time it comes in afaik (and any pursuit trapper at best has to win a 50/50 with sucker and pursuit because superpower is a thing), etc. Ubers are a level above the rest of the dex, and I really don't like the idea of banning one.
 
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I also disagree with a ban. In practice, there are a lot of flaws that prevent primal groudon from being broken. Its mediocre speed before a rock polish combined with the fact that chessmons is a fast, offensive meta means it's going to have to take a strong hit from something before it becomes dangerous. Also, its defensive utility is amazing, but it also means that it'll probably be switching in a lot mid-game, which makes it easy to wear down and threaten to KO with said strong hit. Also like Josh said, pretty much every viable queen is broken, and PDon doesn't really stand out from the rest. Honestly I'm surprised PDon was brought up instead of Mega Salamence or Xerneas, considering that they're more reliable, they only need one turn of setup to 6-0 unprepared teams, and Mega Salamence sets up much easier too
 
Alright, you guys are bringing up counter-examples like Rest/CM PGore and Xerneas/Mega Salamence. I will give you my opinion since I brought this "ban P-Don" thing up in the first place.

1. If Primal Groudon gets banned, Xerneas will have to too, as Pdon is one of Xerneas' only checks.
2. Give me one pokemon that can beat SD/Rock Polish P-Don after rocks are up (with moveset Fire Punch/EQ), and the pokemon has to be somewhat viable.
  • Vullaby/Mandibuzz - they get one shot by Fire Punch when P-Don is +2, and P-Don will not die to a +2 Foul Play.
  • Quagsire - One of P-Don's only viable checks, and can't one shot P-Don with EQ. It can Toxic, however.
  • Lati@s - This is also a check, but will not one shot P-Don with a Draco Meteor. Also consider that +2 Fire Punch will one shot Latios after rocks.
Just tell me if I missed a pokemon here that isn't an uber and can check/counter P-Don.

Ok, now lets look at the argument. So your saying all ubers are practically just as OP as P-Don and you two stated three particular ubers; Xerneas, Mega Salamence, and Primal Kyogre. Lets disregard Xerneas cause like I said, if P-Don gets banned, Xerneas shall too.

Primal-Kyogre: Now I am assuming the set here is Calm Mind/Rest/Sleep Talk/Scald.
Now to make a point clear here, Primal Groudon is insane because it can increase its speed. After an increase of speed twofolds or threefolds, it will become near impossible to counter. Kyogre on the other hand...it can't increase it's speed. That makes it susceptible to strong physical electric/grass moves, physical pokemon that resist water, and other pokemon that can resist water typing. There are a handful of pokemon that can beat Primal Kyogre, I'll just list a few.

  • Amoonguss
  • Azumarill
  • Breloom
  • Ferrothorn
  • Keldeo
  • Kyurem-Black
  • Manaphy
  • Serperior
Already, there are an abundance of checks and counters to Primal Kyogre. So no, I think the teams you sweep are pretty unprepared.

Mega-Salamence: I'm assuming the set is Dragon Dance/Frustration/Earthquake/Roost.
So your argument is that Mega-Salamence sets up easier. That may be true, but at least it has viable checks and counters. I do believe that Mega-Mence is quite good, but is just no where as good as Primal Groudon is. It's weak to rocks, loses to Foul Play (Vullaby/Mandibuzz), and has other viable checks and counters. Here's a list of counters:
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Skarmory
  • Thundurus
  • Zapdos

Checks:
  • Unaware Clefable
  • Landorus-Therian
  • Slowbro
  • Ice Shard (Weavile, Mamoswine etc.)

There are more checks and counters to Mega-Mence than Primal Groudon, and even though there is a slight argument, I believe P-Don is better.

I hope you are convinced that Primal Groudon really is insane, and should be banned. If you have questions Josh DDDon blalib , just ask.
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
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Some of the pokemon you listed as checks to certain things really arent but overall I'm not sure that going with bans and stuff is the right way to go. If anything was insanely stupidly mega-ray level broken then ok but considering how this doesn't quite have real meta status I think we should more just run with coping with pdon. Sure you can't really counter it but there's definitely more checks and things that can annoy it and team structures that can sack a mon to put it in range for everything else. This sorta applies for other ubers as well, like none of the things that you listed really switch into ogre effectively at all (only a few can with rocks up and it's not like kyube is staying around as a counter). Plus the fact that ogre and xern would legit get way better if don left and this would probably cycle out of control, I think given the low amount of meta development and unofficial status that simply letting broken check broken shouldnt be off the table. This is definitely more of a negative, let's not try to pretend there's a real meta with trends and development going on here approach so I understand where your completely opposite point is coming from, but I don't think Pdon has shown itself to be truly there's no way you can play the game with it level and that's all I need to say no.
 

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