Reserving Mega Lopunny + Clefable. Because I'm a mean person ;)
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Project Break This Team (Week 42)
- Thread starter Creator of Chaos
- Start date
Gastrodon + Amoonguss
+
Amoonguss is kind of interchangable here, Curse Gastrodon is the mon I really wanted to submit because of how much this team struggles with it. It is decent against this team as well as a good partner for Gastro in general though and stopping Ferro's Leech Seed, which is probably the biggest nuisance for anybody trying to set up with Curse Gastro against this team and luring it in due to the threat of Spore and weakening it with HP Fire is pretty nice.
Since this team's main way of stopping setup is T-Wave, a setup mon immune to it is naturally a big advantage. Then there is the reliance on powerful physical attackers (BandTar) to break through defensive mons, which Gastrodon also takes advantage of with Curse.
Gastro just has a really good match-up against this team, T-Wave Starmie is literally a free switch-in and setup-fodder, Clefable looses 1v1 (especially without Moonblast), Lando obviously doesn't want to take a Scald, Lopunny and even Band-Tar can't really break Gastro after a Curse and get 2HKO'd. Ferro can annoy it with Leech Seed but can't really hit it due to not running Power Whip, so it's going to get Scald-burned and worn down eventually.
Here's a bit of an older replay when I faced a variation of this team on the ladder and Gastrodon basically swept: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-414451863
It may not be the best replay since it doesn't feature the core I posted, some misplays and my opponent's team having different sets than the one posted here. However it still shows pretty well how dangerous Curse Gastrodon is for this team.
Spreads are just the standard ones from the analysis, they're obviously customizable depending on the team, the Gastro I used in the replay was more phys def oriented for example.
Amoonguss is kind of interchangable here, Curse Gastrodon is the mon I really wanted to submit because of how much this team struggles with it. It is decent against this team as well as a good partner for Gastro in general though and stopping Ferro's Leech Seed, which is probably the biggest nuisance for anybody trying to set up with Curse Gastro against this team and luring it in due to the threat of Spore and weakening it with HP Fire is pretty nice.
Since this team's main way of stopping setup is T-Wave, a setup mon immune to it is naturally a big advantage. Then there is the reliance on powerful physical attackers (BandTar) to break through defensive mons, which Gastrodon also takes advantage of with Curse.
Gastro just has a really good match-up against this team, T-Wave Starmie is literally a free switch-in and setup-fodder, Clefable looses 1v1 (especially without Moonblast), Lando obviously doesn't want to take a Scald, Lopunny and even Band-Tar can't really break Gastro after a Curse and get 2HKO'd. Ferro can annoy it with Leech Seed but can't really hit it due to not running Power Whip, so it's going to get Scald-burned and worn down eventually.
Here's a bit of an older replay when I faced a variation of this team on the ladder and Gastrodon basically swept: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-414451863
It may not be the best replay since it doesn't feature the core I posted, some misplays and my opponent's team having different sets than the one posted here. However it still shows pretty well how dangerous Curse Gastrodon is for this team.
Spreads are just the standard ones from the analysis, they're obviously customizable depending on the team, the Gastro I used in the replay was more phys def oriented for example.
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Curse
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power Fire
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Curse
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power Fire
Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Quiver Dance
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower
- Belly Drum
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Quiver Dance
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower
- Belly Drum
There isnt really much synergy between this core other than the fact that they are both set up sweeper and that it hard to always make a team to counter both of them and the fire and water cover each overs weakness well but any way there really isnt any thing to stop either of the these set up sweepers on the team and both of them get free set up against clefable is it does not have thunder wave on the move set neither does it have moonblast and the rest of the team cant stop them once they have set up .but yea not much other than that.
Also volc is life orb because it secure two very important kills; LO calc's on bold
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 331-390 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 430-507 (112.5 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 306-360 (89.7 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 398-468 (116.7 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
^ I'm not even sure what are you going to set Volcarona up against without Lum Berry against this team (except Clefable). Not attacking this nomination, just curious.
Volc force ferro to switch so thing one thing it can set up on as no one is staying in with ferro against volc . Also most people would predict Lum so that would means that they may not thunder wave with starmie and go for scald in hope that they can kill volc with one or two rounds of fake out with Lop as that would be there but chance if rocks were up since lum get the kills of t-tar and lando-t if rocks are up .And also if landot and t-tar or bellow like 80% it force them out too.
choosing between Lum and LO if basically choosing weather you want limited set up opportunity but when you do set having the instant in or being forced to keep up rocks for the sweep but with easy set up.
Also Volc doesn't have to set up since it LO it can also function has a wall breaker as it is LO and does insane damage and out speed 4/6 mons on the team also if the opponent sack starmie to thunder wave volc like then azu instantly wins as starmie scalding azu to burn or paralysing it with thunder wave was the only way of preventing the sweep well lop can fake out but most the team would be dead by the time fake out kills .I think you have a too narrow minded approach to what volc can do to the team it doesn't have to set up.
but hey a comment like that was probably due since my explanation was lacking to say the least. If id explained all this in the original post this wouldn't have to happen my bad. But i do think to ability to set up on 2 pokemon is good enough them being clefable and ferro unless they make an ungodly predicting and thunder wave the volc but if I had not revealed my item yet that would be more than unlikely.
Again sorry for the lack of an explanation and I hope this answer you curiosity/question and over all it less volc can set up on a lot and more if volc set up the game literally ends as I can roost when lop switch out after faking out. And ofc no hard feelings xD and sorry if I missed something else.
choosing between Lum and LO if basically choosing weather you want limited set up opportunity but when you do set having the instant in or being forced to keep up rocks for the sweep but with easy set up.
Also Volc doesn't have to set up since it LO it can also function has a wall breaker as it is LO and does insane damage and out speed 4/6 mons on the team also if the opponent sack starmie to thunder wave volc like then azu instantly wins as starmie scalding azu to burn or paralysing it with thunder wave was the only way of preventing the sweep well lop can fake out but most the team would be dead by the time fake out kills .I think you have a too narrow minded approach to what volc can do to the team it doesn't have to set up.
but hey a comment like that was probably due since my explanation was lacking to say the least. If id explained all this in the original post this wouldn't have to happen my bad. But i do think to ability to set up on 2 pokemon is good enough them being clefable and ferro unless they make an ungodly predicting and thunder wave the volc but if I had not revealed my item yet that would be more than unlikely.
Again sorry for the lack of an explanation and I hope this answer you curiosity/question and over all it less volc can set up on a lot and more if volc set up the game literally ends as I can roost when lop switch out after faking out. And ofc no hard feelings xD and sorry if I missed something else.
Actually, volcarona forces ferrothorn to stay in because if you switch and volcarona quivers, you lose. Meanwhile if you stay in and volc fire blasts you can still go lopunny and revenge kill. Also the fact that nothing can switch into volcarona in the first place except clef, but whats clef doing against a volcarona?
I don't get the logic of running LO "because people will predict Lum" considering that it doesn't mean jack whether they predict it or not if they can't do anything about it. By running it you don't depend on your opponent preserving Ferrothorn to get up a Quiver Dance, making it far more consistent in in the context of this matchup specifically--which is the whole point of this project.
Just run Timid + Lum Berry lol. You only need extremely minor chip damage on both the Lan-t and Ttar (e.g. approximately one SR switch, Fake Out damage on Lan-t, baiting the Band Ttar with Lati@s, 1 round of Rough Skin/Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs) to get them in range. It'll naturally happen over the course of the game - Lan-T is a defensive pivot and Band Tar often takes a hit to trap/smash something.
The other solution is to run a Modest nature to put the OHKO heavily in your favour. While +1 Modest Volc is slower than standard Jolly Scarf Exca/Lan-t, it serves the purpose of this thread:
The other solution is to run a Modest nature to put the OHKO heavily in your favour. While +1 Modest Volc is slower than standard Jolly Scarf Exca/Lan-t, it serves the purpose of this thread:
- +1 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 332-392 (97.3 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
- +1 252+ SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 363-427 (95 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
OK, time for submitting cores are up. Now's the time for voting. As usual, no voting for your own core. 1 vote per person should do it since we only have 4 cores. Reasoning for votes are highly encouraged
Core 1: Excadrill + Tangrowth
Core 2: Serperior + FatChomp + Klefki
Core 3: Gastrodon + Amoonguss
Core 4: Volcarona + Azumarill
About the Keldeo and Vin Cune, while they are good Pokemon that troubles the team, the ones I put into voting are cores, just for clarification. Interesting contribution though.
Core 1: Excadrill + Tangrowth
Core 2: Serperior + FatChomp + Klefki
Core 3: Gastrodon + Amoonguss
Core 4: Volcarona + Azumarill
About the Keldeo and Vin Cune, while they are good Pokemon that troubles the team, the ones I put into voting are cores, just for clarification. Interesting contribution though.
Last edited:
I vote for core 3
I'm going with Core 4.
Although I still think Lum Berry is a better set, LO Volcarona still troubles the team and together with Azumarill can actually overwhelm it.
Although I still think Lum Berry is a better set, LO Volcarona still troubles the team and together with Azumarill can actually overwhelm it.
Core 4 Volcarona just monsters the whole team and while Azu cleans whatever remains. While volc is rare its still a huge weakness
Looks like kek123's core wins this round. Congrats to them!
New Team:
Posho's Gastro Stall
New Team:
Posho's Gastro Stall
Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Def / 224 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Toxic
- Scald
- Recover
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Defog
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Def / 224 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Toxic
- Scald
- Recover
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Defog
Pending.
Just at a glance Focus Blast Keldeo theoretically has no switch-ins if it is able to get in. LO or even Expert Belt/Black Belt/Sea Incense/Rocky Helmet/whatever just sort of runs it over 'cause it doesn't have to predict, and given how immensely slow the entire team is it can afford to run Modest if it absolutely wants to from a counter-teaming standpoint.
From a glance, I don't see much Pokemon being able to get past this Stall team. If talking about cores, this team will have some trouble against a Mega Charizard-Y + Dugtrio / Band Tyranitar core as Chansey is literally the only thing standing in the way of a complete sweep. Wallbreakers like Manaphy and Mega Gardevoir also threatens the team in a similar manner.
Or if you really love a "competitive" strategy, try using a Baton Pass team as it should be able to defeat this team as Espeon uses those boosts and destroy Clefable with boosted Stored Powers.
Or if you really love a "competitive" strategy, try using a Baton Pass team as it should be able to defeat this team as Espeon uses those boosts and destroy Clefable with boosted Stored Powers.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Toxic
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 8 Def / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Toxic
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Toxic
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 8 Def / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Toxic
Other threats...LO Gengar might be a problem, given that the Sableye spread takes up to 53% from Shadow Ball and everything else which might potentially check it is fully physically defensive. Mega Gardevoir obviously wins on any half-decent build, same with CB Tyranitar with the right teammates and decent prediction. Toxicroak's also a cool idea (and something I really want to try in this Tangrowth meta) since it can just spam Gunk Shot to poison Zapdos / Sableye and gets plenty of free switch-ins.
Rest+CM+Roar+Scald Suicune performs well. Zapdos can't 3HKO through Leftovers if Cune manages to get up a Calm Mind, and it's useless if Suicune gets to +2. Clefable can't set up on it and break through, and Suicune can outlast its Moonblasts. Gastrodon is stalled out too, I think. Nothing can phaze or taunt it.
Spex Latios puts hella pressure on the team. If its controller get rocks up, or Knock Off some leftovers here and there, it can 2HKO everything with the right rolls -- it really shows that this team was calibrated to answer Life Orb sets. Flawless prediction is required to pull off a win.
Speaking of rocks, Mega Diancie is not a common Rocks setter, but some teams do saddle it with that job if they're concerned about rocks vs stall. It obviously beats all of your hazard control elements, and the more-and-more-popular physically offensive spreads turn Chansey into a risky switch-in after those rocks come up.
As mentioned above, any team that cares about supporting its Mega Gardevoir will break through. Pair it with anything that can chop off Chansey's Eviolite and you barely even need to predict.
Really, the principle weaknesses of this build (as far as I can tell) are A) that it tends to narrowly counter common metagame threats instead of fielding damage sponges (save Chansey), so some breakers that come out of left field will give it a headache, and B) no Steel-type.
Spex Latios puts hella pressure on the team. If its controller get rocks up, or Knock Off some leftovers here and there, it can 2HKO everything with the right rolls -- it really shows that this team was calibrated to answer Life Orb sets. Flawless prediction is required to pull off a win.
Speaking of rocks, Mega Diancie is not a common Rocks setter, but some teams do saddle it with that job if they're concerned about rocks vs stall. It obviously beats all of your hazard control elements, and the more-and-more-popular physically offensive spreads turn Chansey into a risky switch-in after those rocks come up.
As mentioned above, any team that cares about supporting its Mega Gardevoir will break through. Pair it with anything that can chop off Chansey's Eviolite and you barely even need to predict.
Really, the principle weaknesses of this build (as far as I can tell) are A) that it tends to narrowly counter common metagame threats instead of fielding damage sponges (save Chansey), so some breakers that come out of left field will give it a headache, and B) no Steel-type.
Specs Gengar just monsters this team. It really does Nothing wants except chancey even wants to mess with shadowball and she is nuked by Focus Blast or worse Tricked. Sableye is 2hkoe'd and Tangrowth needs to cleanly switch, thats not counting any potential hazard damage so partners like rocks Clef/Diancie/Trap tran can make Gengars life even easier. This team as good as it is is very reliant on Current trends so anything unusual like specs gar will just blow it to piece's. Pup Bunny also has plently of fun once clefable is taken care off and Calm mind Passing to say diancie, gengar or Keldeo can pay huge dividends.
Thats just on paper, Not sure about practice but Once you look beyond meta trends this team does appear to struggle and I'm looking foward to core testing.
Thats just on paper, Not sure about practice but Once you look beyond meta trends this team does appear to struggle and I'm looking foward to core testing.