SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps

I found this video of a Cynthia fight (might get taken down):


This kinda confirmed what I thought - this dude is on average 4-5 levels above Cynthia...and he would have lost convincingly had he not cheesed this fight with Max Revives and Switch mode. In a shocking twist, I'm actually worried about being under levelled in this game without grinding.

I also don't know what substance there is in the post game that will boost my team's levels high enough to take down Cynthia's last rematch team. This fight and her last rematch are going to be ridiculously hard even if we're ahead of her in levels.

Edit: Also, this video confirms her dangerously good AI, on par with Platinum's. She switches in the middle of battle and pretty much never makes a misplay. Only oversight is her holding Garchomp for last regardless of type advantage.
Cynthia's DP Garchomp, which already gave people nightmares, was level 62 had zero EV investment, a Quirky nature and a Sitrus Berry, though it did have perfect IVs. Her current one is Jolly, has a Yache Berry, has an EV distribution of 52 HP/252 Atk/204 Spe and is four levels higher at the first battle. Her current Garchomp has the attack stat of her previous one if it was Lv 81. That's not even getting started on the rest of her team.

Casual players will need therapy after this.
 
Casual players will need therapy after this.
Yes, a therapy based on Max revives and hyper potions. :blobshrug:

I still have to hear a normal person (aka not a smogoner doing weird challenges or nuzlockes) that actually took more than 1 attempt to beat any boss in a Pokemon game. Maybe twice if the "ace" happened to have a coverage move they didn't expect.
Stop trying to pretend they are hard, they aren't. None of them is.
Like, seriously. The games are all a joke difficulty wise for casual players. No exception.

Ok I lie, I know one, but that person isnt the brighest on the planet so it doesn't count.

The only time these games *seemed* hard was at the very start when noone had any clue of what pokemon did, noone knew how mechanics worked, type matchups were up in the air, and there was no internet. I myself recall having issues beating E4s in pokemon Blue as kid, because I literally only had a super leveled up Dugtrio as my main poke and everything else was like level 40. As soon as I realized "uhm maybe I should actually level the others", I facestomped them as well.
And with exp share being a thing in modern games, you can't get in this situation even if you try.
 
Cynthia's DP Garchomp, which already gave people nightmares, was level 62 had zero EV investment, a Quirky nature and a Sitrus Berry, though it did have perfect IVs. Her current one is Jolly, has a Yache Berry, has an EV distribution of 52 HP/252 Atk/204 Spe and is four levels higher at the first battle. Her current Garchomp has the attack stat of her previous one if it was Lv 81. That's not even getting started on the rest of her team.
That's the Platinum Garchomp you're describing. DP Garchomp is Lv. 66 and Timid. This is an important distinction.

... What's different here?

Like, it DOES look better, obviously; but I'm pretty sure that's down to the shaders and lighting etc used which does change every game. Nothing about the model nor the pose is different
Well, for one, you can see the leaves individually. Not just ambiguous green knobs. That's different... right?



It seems impossible no matter how it's sliced. Either XY screwed the pooch on a level so fundamental that it blurred a Pokémon's fully modeled anatomy into an amorphous blob, or Gen 8 is actually making some adjustments to 6's futureproofing. The washed-out colors were upsetting, but at least those had to be an intentional design choice. Notably, Shaymin's HOME render also shows a level of detail that seems to be absent from the 2013 model.


Is this truly the same model as in XY? I actually find it hard to say. I'm not an expert, but I went and located a model rip on DeviantArt.

And whaddaya know. Leaves.

While I don't expect every model to recieve major updates, it is true that they're being updated, alongside Legends showing off new animations in trailers. Whether BDSP will carry over all the updates in Legends is unknown, but the Shaymin in the event does match up with Legends' model
Would you please clarify this comment? Do you know the models are being updated and have other evidence to present, or is this entire claim based on Shaymin's Play-Doh head bumps in the Pokémon-Amie screenshot? I'm as wishful as the next person, but I find Kurona is right to be skeptical.
 
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Its sad they didn't take the Let's Go route and have the regional forms be tradeable or transfered from Home later on. I wanted Defog Galar Articuno and Roost Galar Zapdos. Plus now that Mr.Rime is a thing, I wanted to use one for my ingame team.
Only bad things for me with this remake is that, plus the movepools not being updated properly, no move tutors, and that friendship thing is kind of annoying.

I hope Bastiodon at least somehow shows up in PLA and gets Body Press and Torterra with Shell Smash... Quiver Dance Lumineon too.
 
Its sad they didn't take the Let's Go route and have the regional forms be tradeable or transfered from Home later on. I wanted Defog Galar Articuno and Roost Galar Zapdos. Plus now that Mr.Rime is a thing, I wanted to use one for my ingame team.
Only bad things for me with this remake is that, plus the movepools not being updated properly, no move tutors, and that friendship thing is kind of annoying.

I hope Bastiodon at least somehow shows up in PLA and gets Body Press and Torterra with Shell Smash... Quiver Dance Lumineon too.
And Accelrock Rampardos
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
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Would you please clarify this comment? Do you know the models are being updated and have other evidence to present, or is this entire claim based on Shaymin's Play-Doh head bumps in the Pokémon-Amie screenshot? I'm as wishful as the next person, but I find Kurona is right to be skeptical.
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Oshawott's mouth is now fully modeled as opposed to a texture.


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A bit harder to see but Burmy's eyes "pop out" a bit on the right, meaning it is now modeled too



Chimchar got a new Idle animation


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Buizel's eye and mouth are now fully modeled as well

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Crobat's eye and mouthhave recieved more depth as well


in general the model updates don't seem to be huge - mostly adding depth to the mons - but they're definitely there
 
I dunno who posted that Cynthia battle, but thanks!

She ain't playing anymore, this ain't no BW2 Vacation Cynthia, she's giving people the full business now. :swole:

The AI is phenomenal, she's not only able to use debuff moves like Rock Tomb properly, but also switch out, and even complex stuff like Flame Orb Marvel Scale Milotic with Full Restores.

Can't wait for PkNX to be updated for this game so I can really sink my teeth into it.

Maybe not the base game, but overall, this might be better than Platinum and the raw base is a serious contender for Top 5 at worst in my book.
 
Entirely possible it was just bad luck on the streamer's part, but I don't think I saw a single affection proc in this entire fight? I think the "____ is awaiting your instructions" is what indicates that affection has begun to take hold, and while seeing that at all does lend credence to simply bad luck, of note is that Magnezone and Honchkrow did not have this message. In fact, despite a message about being worried about battling well, Garchomp doesn't have any messages like above display like this, so it might just be a hardcoded first turn thing for the Cynthia fight. Not entirely sure what to make of all this tbh (I mean they could have modded the affection bonuses out, but then why do some mons not even seem eligible for them in the first place, and is the person that does that kind of thing really the same person that uses items in battle?), I just want to believe affection isn't forced .__.
Tryin to line up all the actions with the Affection chart is a pain, since I have to reference the gen 6 chart, but....
Garchomp in particular shakes back & forth, which seems abotu on par with "affection 2" and has a note about "Being worried" which also lines up with that. Garchomp does not get any messages for getting a Super Effective hit (" That's it! I knew you could do it! ") which is tied to affection 4.
The Kadabra has affection because the Trainer shouts "I know you can do it!", but does not shake or jump. It is "awaiting your directions....". Those line up with affection 3, but it's not shaking back & forth or jumping.
Loppuny has affection judging by the messages (I knw you can do it, awaiting your directions), but shockingly doesnt shake or jump in battle. Maybe this is only something that happens at the start of battle with your first pokemon. Same with Empoleon

There's a lot of other dialog optoins that just are not present, even something as simple as "thrilled to bits"...honestly I'm unsure what's going on with the dialog in general, I saw in their Aaaron battle (Which is otherwise worthless for this since he's so easy anyway) that Honchkrow shook and the trainer had the "I know you can do it" dialog, but there was 0 indication of affection on Honchkrow at all in that battle otherwise (even on SE hits) and nothing at all for that Magnezone or even the Garchomp I think. Mayb egen 8's dialog system is just entirely different in how it functions with affection.

So as for stuff not activating, first off I don't think anyone present has Max affection, which gives the biggest bonuses and a crit bonus (effective to a +1). Secondly there's not many instances where a bonus could kick in, which are as follows:
-Getting knocked out but surviving. This is always a dice roll anyway, and is low at low affection (10% judging by gen 6/7 at level 3, then 15, then 20)
-Recovering from status. There was only one instance of this and it was on Magnezone who had no affection and was immediately healed anyway
-20% higher exp. No clue what the exp situation in this game is tbh.

In conclusion: damn i wish there was literally any substantive breakdown in how gen 8 affection dialog and effects were applied aside from the one chart on serebii which doesnt list out the dialog you start seeing and when you start seeing it because gen 6/7 doesnt seem to line up 1:1 on that front.
But really at the very least I don't think any of them have high affection, even the Loppuny, which just further makes me doubt that one claim that they were already seeing affection bonuses before doing amity square, and were getting the crit bonus by Maylene without anyone following (but after doing the square). Any affection bonuses they might have had access too, probably just didn't proc since it's always going to be a low dice roll (lord knows we all know the pain of searching for an hour for a 10% encounter......)
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
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The more I look at these two's existence in the BDSP main game, the more and more I dig their inclusion as usable main story Pokemon.

The fact they're given out to you at Floaroma at Level 5 specifically is more crucial than you might think. For starters, they will absolute be behind your party at this stage, making you put in a bit of extra effort to get them caught up, but not by an absurd amount that makes them overly time-consuming like Riley's egg Riolu.

The specific point you get them is also a key ingredient. Jirachi is overall the more useful one for this purpose due to learning Confusion as well as its Steel typing, but both are great assets against the next few key fights in Mars and Gardenia who will find their Pokemon rather weak against them on both the offensive and defensive ends. But before long, both of them will be faced with a massive brick wall.
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I have no doubt in my mind that Jupiter's Skuntank was at some level redesigned specifically take on these two new threats. Jirachi's Swift and Mew's Pound will do pittances against it while it fires back by melting the former with Flamethrower (yes it actually gets that in battle 1 now, check it out!) while breaking down the latter's high defenses with Acid Spray before hitting them both with Snarl, which in Jirachi's case nerfs its only viable offensive move against it even further while Mew will take a walloping after having its Special Defense halved.

This entire segment of the game sets a clear message to users of these two Pokemon: They are very powerful allies to be sure, but they will likewise take extra effort to keep up to speed and shouldn't be used as a crutch, for just like any Pokemon they can find themselves in situations they can't deal with. The concept of being given a free Mythical right out from Badge 1 sounds on paper like a balance-shattering disaster that would make XY Lucario seem reasonable, but they've managed to slot in these two in a very graceful way with clear pros and cons and that's hella cool. When BDSP is in my hands I will almost certainly give Jirachi a shot for this exact reason!
 
Wait, didn't that move get axed?

Shame, I'd like to see that. Accelrock needs more distribution tbh.
It's not in BDSP if that's what you mean, but it's in SwSh since it's Lycanroc's signature move.

If I'm going to be honest, I don't like Normal ass moves being signature moves. Stuff like Dark Void, Hyperspace Fury, Octolock etc is fine, but Accelrock is just a Rock type version of Mach Punch but only Lycanroc gets it? That's like if only Scizor got Bullet Punch. The worst part is not even all the Lycanroc forms get it. The frailest and slowest form, Lycanroc-Midnight, doesn't have access to it. Why??

Rampardos would definitely not be anything above NU with Accelrock, but I still think it'd be a pretty big improvement.
 
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It's not in BDSP if that's what you mean, but it's in SwSh since it's Lycanroc's signature move.

If I'm going to be honest, I don't like Normal ass moves being signature moves. Stuff like Dark Void, Hyperspace Fury, Octolock etc is fine, but Accelrock is just a Rock type version of Mach Punch but only Lycanroc gets it? That's like if only Scizor got Bullet Punch. The worst part is not even all the Lycanroc forms get it. The frailest and slowest form, Lycanroc-Midnight, doesn't have access to it. Why??

Rampardos would definitely not be anything above NU with Accelrock, but I still think it'd be a pretty big improvement.
Lycanroc-Midnight is the bulkiest. It trades 30 points of speed for ~10 HP, Defense & Special Defense.~

Midnight really really got the short end of the stick.
 
Lycanroc-Midnight is the bulkiest. It trades 30 points of speed for ~10 HP, Defense & Special Defense.~

Midnight really really got the short end of the stick.
Really underscores how GameFreak probably kinda should'a come up with a Rock-type jaw move by now for uhhhhh
  1. Aerodactyl
  2. Tyranitar
  3. Aggron
  4. Archeops
  5. Tyrantrum
  6. Lycanroc-Midnight
  7. Drednaw, who went ahead and got a signature jaw move anyway(!)
It's a profound shame that almost every Rock attack is some variation of "throw pebbles at enemy." The only exceptions on the physical side are Head Smash (good), Rollout (lol), and Accelerock (coyotes only). A little variety goes a long way. Just ask the up-and-coming superbug Kleavor... who will probably be keeping Stone Axe to himself greedily, leaving the Rock type in the same pickle as he found it.

That's like if only Scizor got Bullet Punch.
Hahaha... ha...
 

Fusion Flare

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Spr 4d 151.png
Spr 4d 385.png

The more I look at these two's existence in the BDSP main game, the more and more I dig their inclusion as usable main story Pokemon.

The fact they're given out to you at Floaroma at Level 5 specifically is more crucial than you might think. For starters, they will absolute be behind your party at this stage, making you put in a bit of extra effort to get them caught up, but not by an absurd amount that makes them overly time-consuming like Riley's egg Riolu.

The specific point you get them is also a key ingredient. Jirachi is overall the more useful one for this purpose due to learning Confusion as well as its Steel typing, but both are great assets against the next few key fights in Mars and Gardenia who will find their Pokemon rather weak against them on both the offensive and defensive ends. But before long, both of them will be faced with a massive brick wall.
Spr 4d 435.png

I have no doubt in my mind that Jupiter's Skuntank was at some level redesigned specifically take on these two new threats. Jirachi's Swift and Mew's Pound will do pittances against it while it fires back by melting the former with Flamethrower (yes it actually gets that in battle 1 now, check it out!) while breaking down the latter's high defenses with Acid Spray before hitting them both with Snarl, which in Jirachi's case nerfs its only viable offensive move against it even further while Mew will take a walloping after having its Special Defense halved.

This entire segment of the game sets a clear message to users of these two Pokemon: They are very powerful allies to be sure, but they will likewise take extra effort to keep up to speed and shouldn't be used as a crutch, for just like any Pokemon they can find themselves in situations they can't deal with. The concept of being given a free Mythical right out from Badge 1 sounds on paper like a balance-shattering disaster that would make XY Lucario seem reasonable, but they've managed to slot in these two in a very graceful way with clear pros and cons and that's hella cool. When BDSP is in my hands I will almost certainly give Jirachi a shot for this exact reason!
There’s also a few other things that can stymie these two, and more importantly, Jirachi in particular.

You see, with their status as Mythical Pokemon comes a heavy, heavy burden. They are featured in the slow to medium slow experience gain, so grinding them will be a chore, and what’s more; while Mew can utilize several coverage moves because its Mew AKA “I get fucking everything under the sun lmao”, Jirachi got the REALLY short end of the stick. Just take a look at its moveset!
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It lost just about everything that defines it these days. Coverage in Aura Sphere, The Elemental Punches, and it’s semi-signature Iron Head. It keeps Zen Headbutt, but those are truly devastating losses for it this gen. Of course, January will allow HOME Compatibility and fix all this, but for BDSP purposes, Jirachi is left severely impaired in terms of moveset options.

This also goes for its matchups against the Gym Leaders and the Elite Four. It obviously stomps Gardenia and Maylene, does decently against Wake with its access to electric and grass coverage, doesn’t like Fantina at all, sucks against Byron’s Steelix, wrecks Candice, but doesn’t care for Volkner.

The Elite Four is where things really start getting tough for are starry friend, though. The pokemon there are rocking IVs alongside ridiculously powerful movesets, and Jirachi likely won’t be invested, though it would probably have good IVs. It really doesn’t like Aaron, it isnt too bad against Bertha, but Flint. Dear God Flint. It HATES Flint. and Lucian isn’t a walk in the park either. Cynthia is sort of ok other than the obvious lead Spiritomb and monstrous Garchomp.

See where I’m going with this? It gets to a point where the idea of running through the game with Jirachi is overestimating it, as if its some unbeatable beast with ridiculous coverage for every occasion or something. Haha, what a silly thought! That honor would belong to Mew.
 
It's a profound shame that almost every Rock attack is some variation of "throw pebbles at enemy." The only exceptions on the physical side are Head Smash (good), Rollout (lol), and Accelerock (coyotes only). A little variety goes a long way. Just ask the up-and-coming superbug Kleavor... who will probably be keeping Stone Axe to himself greedily, leaving the Rock type in the same pickle as he found it.
1636832670190.png
 

Fusion Flare

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Yeah sure its Stone Edge, haha funny accuracy joke #10000000 but you say this as if Ttar’s Banded Stone Edges have been the stuff of nightmares for pokemon that rely on it being some goofy specislly defensive rocker, only to have more than a solid 50% shaved off them. Think stuff like Landorus and Corviknight. They HAVE to respect the prospect of BandTar or they just drop.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
So a few pages ago when pre-National Dex Pokemon list was figured out there was some debate over what exactly the in-game teambuilding situation compared to Platinum was, so I've compiled a quick list of notable changes compared to that game in this aspect. This is not definitive, there may absolutely be things I'm missing, so let me know about those!

Pokemon Lost: Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Tropius, Tangrowth, Yanmega, Leafeon, Glaceon, Porygon-Z, Probopass (-12)
Pokemon Gained:
Pinsir, Jynx, Mew, Ursaring, Jirachi, Mismagius, Honchkrow, Purugly, Skuntank (+9)
Also worth noting the version exclusivity of Electivire/Magmortar, Honchkrow/Mismagius and Ursaring/Gliscor
Pre-existing options that got significantly buffed
-Every Pokemon that got Fairy type (Clefable, Mr. Mime, Azumarill, Gardevoir, Togekiss)
-Houndoom, Scyther, Swinub, Skorupi and Croagunk being obtainable MUCH earlier via Grand Underground
-Munchlax being actually feasable to use due to Grand Underground
-Swords Dance Bibarel
-Quiver Dance Wormadam
-Early Recover Shellos
-Roselia is in Zone 3 of GU, meaning that in exchange for waiting a bit you don't gotta babysit Budew
-Togepi also requires much less babysitting due to GU availability at much higher level than Cynthia's gift
Pre-existing options that got significantly nerfed
-Strength boulders cover up Gible cave, also only appears in Underground at Badge 7
-Getting good Ice STAB for Sneasel is harder due to needing to get lucky with Underground encounters, also lost Feint Attack in its level-up movepool

Like I said, probably forgetting things on both ends, but all in all it seems like a net gain to me (edit: apparently not according to some more adept analyzers than me)
 
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