Bulky Offensive (dual screens) Gen 4 OU

Mutiny

Hey! This is my first RMT so bare with me if I make any mistakes...
I have been using variations of this team for almost 8 months now and have had reasonable success, however this team is definately not without its problems and i would highly appreciate any constructive criticism/suggestions to take this team to the next level.

The idea of this team is to set up dual screens and sweep, most the pokemon in this team are rather bulky and under screens can be incredibly hard to take down.

Lead: Uxie
uxie.png

@ Light Clay
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252Hp/216Speed/40Def
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Stealth Rock
-U-turn

Ok so thanks to AB2 i decided to change back to Uxie to set up the screens. I've used uxie a lot in the past and he is an exceptionally bulky pokemon, especially under screens. This enables him to come in twice sometimes three times and set up the screens throughout a battle, which is highly beneficial for my team. His bulk also enables him to almost always lay down rocks, while his decent speed and u-turn enable him to scout and escape fast taunters while breaking sashes. I once had problems with sleep inducing leads, however with a few EV's in speed Uxie can outspeed Breloom and Roserade U-turn and then KO both of them with fireblast and outrage respectively. Overall, Uxie does his job for the team very well.


Offensive Calm Minder: Suicune
suicune.jpg

@ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252Speed/252SpA/4Hp
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power [Electric]

Suicune is a beast under screens, with its decent bulk it is more often than not able to take a few hits, set up a few calm minds and then proceed to sweep. However blissey and other decent special tanks wall it and can threaten to status and consequently cripple.

Trapper: Heatran
485.png

@ Shuca Berry
Nature: Modest
Evs:252SpA/220Speed/36Hp
-Magma Storm
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power [Grass]
-Explosion

Another reasonably bulky pokemon with a bite. Magma storm is great, it's as powerful as fire blast but also traps the opponent, which enables heatran to make the KO or to switch to a pokemon that can. Heatran can also take down blissey with good prediction using explosion, however do note that it's definately a risk with most blissey users expecting the explosion and protecting. Hidden power grass is used for the numerous swamperts that switch in. With Shuca Berry Heatran can also take out opposing Heatran, surviving their earth power and then Ko'ing with its own.

Bulky Swords Dance: Scizor
scizor.png

@ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
Trait: Teachnician
Evs:232Hp/176Atk/28SDef/72Speed
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Roost

Thanks to Blazin Kickin Chicken I decided to remove Venasaur and replace him with this bulky swords dance scizor set. I really like this set, bulky with a means to recover but packing a huge punch, running well with the theme of my team. Vaporeon also used to be quite the annoyance in the past but thanks to this scizor set, no longer.


DD ChestoRest: Kingdra
kingdra.png

@ Chesto Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant
Evs:144Hp/164Speed/40SDef/160Atk
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Waterfall
-Rest

I used to have Lucario in this position however this meant i had 3/6 pokemon weak to fighting and i was already using a strong physical attacker with priority in scizor, so i decided to change to a dragon dancing Kingdra (with help from Blazin Kickin Chicken). With the EV spread kingdra is really quite bulky, and under screens even more so, enabling me to dragon dance a few times, rest off any damage/status and then proceed to sweep with stab outrage and waterfall. People will often try to bait an outrage and switch to a steel type, so this is something to be wary of, especially more early game. Heatran does well to lure out and kill swampert with hidden power grass and suicune can take care of other bulky waters such as gyarados that would otherwise wall kingdra. I also like Kingdra in that he attracts steel switch ins and other dragonite counters which i can then be aware of, hopefully take out, and then provide dragonite an easy sweep late game.

Dragon Dancer: Dragonite
149Dragonite.png

@ Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
Evs:252Atk/252Speed/4SpA
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake

Dragonite is reasonably bulky and under screens essentially guaranteed a dragon dance. If dragonite is able to secure one or more dragon dances it becomes near unstoppable, stab outrage, fire blast for pokemon such as scizor and forretress and earthquake provide great coverage and power. Lum berry is to stop crippling status, such as thunderwave and will-o-wisp, or to cure confusion after an outrage. Also fantastic late game once its main counters have been taken out.


So there you have it! Let me know what you think, and please don't hesitate to fire away any suggestions! Thanks.
 
Hey, this seems like a good hyper offense team, I like the HeaTrap+Offensive Cune combination.

The only problem I see is that Venusaur seems really out of place. With the constant pressure of your attackers under screens, you often won't need a revenge killer because nothing is really setting up on you. Plus, the opponent could take advantage of a move Venu is locked into, set up, and sweep you (AgiliGross comes to mind).

So I'd recommend a different poke over Venusaur that'll synergize well and keep up with the tempo of the rest of your team, Bulky SD Scizor.

212_scizor_1_m.png

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 232 HP / 176 Atk / 28 SDef / 72 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Roost

The EVs allow for:
-the highest possible Life Orb number
-ability to outrun Vaporeon, so you can SD and Roost in its face, as well as Skarm
-bonus point in attack
This thing also likes to lure out Gliscor and then destroy it, letting Lucario sweep easier.

So yeah I think this could work for you. Also, I usually use Passho > Shuca Berry on HeaTrap, but thats really up to you. Good luck!
 
mm, well i can more often than not set up SR with azelf, and im not really that keen on sacrificing a postion for a second poke to set up screens, but might be worth a try. to be honest i think the weakest link in this team is venasaur... i'm also thinking of changing luke to a jolly nature as after a swords dance and with life orb the boost in attack doesnt seem as necessary as the extra speed, although extremespeed sort of negates the need for this extra speed so im not all too sure. I'm willing to try anything really, new pokemon, natures, evs etc.
 
thanks blazin kickin chicken! i've trialled scizor a few times with different variations of this team, but i'm really liking your set. I'll definately give it a go! (I also think you're spot on with the venasaur being out of place comment!)
 
Hey, this seems like a pretty good team with a nice concept that you have going as well. Dual Screen teams along with bulky special attackers like Suicune and Heatran have always been one of my favorite kinds of teams. Anyways, this team seems fairly solid; however I have a few suggestions that I really think you should consider as they may help you out. First of all I really think that for support reasons you should swap your Dual Screen Azelf for a Dual Screen Uxie. Although DS Azelf is a nice lead and gets up screens a good percentage of the time, it is more or less of a one time use. Uxie is so bulky that it is able to come back in and keep setting up screens for 2 or maybe even 3 times in the match.

Uxie @ Light Clay
Jolly 252 HP | 40 Def | 216 Spe Levitate
Reflect | Light Screen | Stealth Rocks | U-turn

This EV spread takes advantage of Uxie's very respectable 90 base speed which allows it to set up a surprisingly quick Dual Screen. As stated before, I don't see why you have Venusaur on this team. It really does seem out of place as your revenge killer as there are indeed quite a few better options. You seem to be a bit weak to some setup sweepers as well. Agility Metagross and Jolly Swords Dance Lucario will give you a lot of trouble. There is a really simple way to fix this, by replacing the weakest link in the team Venusaur for a Scarf Rotom. Scarf Rotom will be able to check Agility Metagross, Swords Dance Scizor, and Lucario. Not only that, but it makes great synergy with your team in that it if it happens to get pursuited away by Tyranitar, Dragonite, Lucario, or Suicune more or less get free set up.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe Levitate
Thunderbolt | Shadow Ball | Hydro Pump | Trick

Alright that is all I have to say for now, this team is solid and the strategy is quite unique. Good Luck!
 
thanks AB2, all good points. I was using uxie instead of azelf for a long time, and your right its extra bulk enables it to come in twice sometimes three times, however i had no response to sleep inducing leads other than sacrificing a pokemon to them, however i now realise how stupid i was, with extra speed evs in uxie i will be able to u-turn to dragonite, then KO breloom with fire blast and roserade with outrage. i will also give rotom-w a go, thanks!
 
I would definitely put Rotom-W over Lucario. You say that Luke is better for late game, when you probably won't have screens up. If you do decide to try and get screens up for Luke to sweep, it means that you'll probably lose your offensive momentum,which would hurt you a lot. Ditch Lucario.
 
^ Luc doesn't need screens. The gameplan should go: Screens--->Kill walls while under them--->close game out with Lucario, who is the best late game sweeper in OU.
 
I've been trialling this team with the changes shown above and am having more success than previously, which is nice. However i'm still trialling pokemon in Lucario's position, i'm thinking some variation of kingdra, dragon dance chesto rest or specs. any thoughts?
 
I wouldn't go with Specs Kingdra, mainly because you lack a revenge killer and being locked into a move that another poke can set up on can and will most likely be fatal. DD Chesto Rest seems like a viable idea though, it has unresisted coverage (save Empoleon/Shedinja) and can set up on threats that give some of your other pokes trouble, such as opposing offensive Suicune and Life Orb Starmie (which is why I mentioned Passho on Heatran earlier). +1 Ice Beam from Suicune does not even 2HKO. Neither does a Life Orb Tbolt/Ice Beam from Starmie, so you can DD--->Rest--->sweep.

230_kingdra_1_m.png

Kingdra (M) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 SDef / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Waterfall
- Outrage


Try it out and see how it does.
 
good point on the specs inviting an easy set up BKC, i'll test DD chesto rest then, i'm liking the look of it. i'll let you know how it goes, thanks.
 
sorry this is only minor but I would say use Fire Punch over Fire Blast. It gets a boost from DDance and isnt set back by your nature.
 
Ok, i've been trialling DD chesto rest kingdra, and now the team is really starting to run well, i would of played approximately 2-3 hours of gen 4 OU on pokemon online (i find sometimes i have to wait for a battle or play the same few players over and over again on the smogon server) and attained a rank of 2,000/43,000 not bad considering i'm still getting used to the team and i lost quite a number of games thanks to hax.

so thanks for your help! (still open for suggestions though haha)

and 13laze13oy the reason i go with fireblast is firstly when facing a lead breloom i can u-turn to nite, lum the spore off and KO with fireblast, i couldnt do that with fire punch and would therefore lose a poke to sleep, also it gives me a means of hitting physically defensive pokemon (especially steel types) such as skarmory (usually doing around 60%). Also fireblast does approximately the same damage as an unboosted firepunch from my dragonite set.
 
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