Busting My OU Cherry

[sophos]

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I'm pretty new to competitive battling and have spent the last month or so looking through the forums and articles available here on Smogon soaking in as much information as possible and coming up to speed on the OU metagame. I finally feel like I am knowledgeable enough to put a team together and bring it here to identify any weaknesses that I may have over looked and what could be done to better the team. When reviewing the detailed specs and movesets listed below please keep in mind that the main purpose of this team is for wifi battling and I will be using RNG abuse to get good to perfect IVs. Well here goes nothing...


The Team Lead:

Azelf@Focus Sash
Naive
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Taunt
-Explosion
-Fire Blast
-Stealth Rock

I figure for my first team I'd go with the defacto number 1 lead in order to get my feet wet. Azelf is pretty much guaranteed to get SR up and more often than not can explode to kick the battle off with a blast. Describing this set as standard would be an understatement, so moving on...

Swampert@Leftovers
Relaxed
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Roar

This bulky water-type will be the physical tank of the team, capable of switching into attacks aimed at Heatran and to a lesser extent, Breloom. Rest and Sleep Talk allow Pert to heal off any damage taken on the switch and then either attack with a STAB Waterfall or use Curse to boost his Attack and Defense. This Pert does not fear Grass Knot from the likes of a Life Orb max SpA Infernape and can Waterfall in return for a OHKO.

Note: I am considering removing Swampert in favor of Starmie.

Changes: From the feedback I've been getting about my team's vulnerability to stat boosters I've revisited and updated Swampert's set since the previous Curse + RestTalk set would have been set up fodder for the likes of Luke, Gyarados, etc. With the current set Swampert will not be locked into a single move, allowing a potential safe switch-in, and has boosted EVs in Def providing for greater physical bulk. Earthquake can now be used to keep Luke and TTar in check, while Ice Beam can cripple Dragonite after SR damage, and Roar can phaze Gyarados out if he attempts to come in and DD. A potential issue with this set is a new vulnerability to Grass Knot from Infernape.

Breloom@Toxic Orb
Adament / Poison Heal
12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
-Spore
-Focus Punch
-Seed Bomb
-Stone Edge

The Spore Puncher set can force a lot of switches, allowing SR damage to build up. He can also work as an early game scout, forcing pokes hit with Spore to either switch out or take a decent amount of damage from an unabated Focus Punch. Although not to the extent of Celebi, Breloom should be able to switch into water attacks aimed at Heatran, throw out a Spore or Seed Bomb and then heal off some damage thanks to the combination of Toxic Orb and Poison Heal. I opted for Stone Edge over Substitute to help with the glaring lack of Flying-type counters on this team. Breloom should prove to be a big part of this team with Mence now relegated to Ubers.

Heatran@Choice Scarf
Naive
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Explosion
-Dragon Pulse

With Scizor and Breloom on this team, Heatran shouldn't have any trouble scoring a Flash Fire boost. The main function of this Heatran is to switch in and notch a revenge kill with his impressive combination of speed and SpA. Many of the attacks intended to cripple or KO Heatran can be absorbed by Swampert and Breloom (to a lesser extent). To guard against a Blissey wall I can either use Explosion with Heatran or counter with Scizor/Breloom/Dragonite.

Dragonite@Life Orb
Rash
112 Atk / 196 SpA / 200 Spe
-Superpower
-Draco Meteor
-Flamethrower
-Roost

With Mence now banned to Ubers, this Dragonite has taken on the role of mix sweeper and should prove to be rather formidable with his added bulkiness. Dragonite will also have the important role of being my lone stall breaker. I'm currently using Thunderbolt instead of Roost specifically to counter Gyarados (my only other check is Stone Edge on Breloom which isnt all that dependable). Without Roost or a Wish supporter it will be imperative that I eliminate all of Dragonite's counters before I bring him in for a sweep.

Changes: With the addition of Jirachi to the team to counter bulky Gyara, Thunderbolt is no longer needed on this set which can now use Roost to heal off SR and LO damage.

Jirachi@Choice Scarf
Jolly
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Iron Head
-Thunder Punch
-Fire Punch
-U-Turn / Trick

Changes: Going with recommendations from several helpful Smogon members Scizor has been removed and replaced with Scarfrachi as a situational counter to Taunt + DD Gyara and Luke. At this time I am not sure of whether or not to use U-Turn or Trick in the last move slot and will test both out on Shoddy to see which provides the greatest benefit.


So there you have it. This is more or less my first attempt at building a standard OU team and I know it is far from perfect. My main concerns right now lie with stopping stall teams and checks for Dragon-types (especially Flygon) as I have no Ice-type attacks on this team. I would love to hear from anybody that can offer constructive criticism and tips to help me improve my team.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Nothing to add to the team, I just want to say that there isn't an item clause on wifi unless specified, so if you REALLY want to run Scarf Scizor you can, although I'd still recommend the set you have.

 

[Her0]

Ya as a stallbreaker I think dragonite needs roost to counter lo, sr, and sometimes ss. You could change pert to a Vaporeon just like the wish passing set on smogon. It counters gyarados and infernape. Starmie could also work but i have think vaporeon would work better as more of a physical tank and that is what your swampert is doing.

 

[chewyourfood]

Your team's gonna have trouble with stat-uppers. The two Pokemon that can potentially sweep your entire team are Agility Lucario and DD Taunt Gyarados.

With and agility, Lucario outspeeds your entire team.
Damage Calcs, LO Lucario
Crunch Vs. Azelf: 100
Close Combat Vs. Swampert: 64.6-76
Close Combat Vs. Breloom: 100
Close Combat Vs. Heatran: 100
Ice Punch Vs. Dragonite: 100
Close Combat Vs. Scizor: 72.3-85.7

Taunt Gyara w/ Waterfall and Ice Fang will decimate your team. Swampert can't touch it, as taunt will shut it down. Scizor can't touch it with any of it's moves.
Damage Calcs, +1 Bulky Gyara
Waterfall Vs. Azelf: 69.7-81.9 (But it's a lead, it won't be alive long anyways)
Taunt + DD + Waterfall Vs. Swampert: Swampert will lose, Gyarados will get 6 Dragon Dances, lol.
Ice Fang Vs. Breloom: 90.2-100
Ice Fang Vs. Dragonite: 100
Waterfall Vs. Scizor: 65.1-76.9

There are a number of ways to solve your problem, but you'll always be on rocky ground when you see these Pokemon. You could try using a bulky Jirachi that can survive a +0 Close Combat or a +1 Waterfall with the moves Fire Punch and Thunder Punch for handling each of those Pokemon, respectively. Celebi works in a similar fashion, as it can survive a Crunch from Lucario and either Earth Power it for a KO or Thunder Wave it so you can bring in Dragonite or Heatran to KO it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Maketsu]

@Chewyourfood, Defensice Jirachi with Thunder- and Fire Punch wont solve this problem. Even with 252 Atk Jirachi deal only 65.5% - 77.6% with Fire Punch to Lucario and Thunderpunch OHKO's only 0 Def/HP Gyarados without Intimidate Atk drop. Against Bulky Gyarados and after Intimidate drop it deals only 54.1% - 63.8%

So, i think you should replace your Swampert with Metagross. Metagross @ Leftovers or Shuca Berry 248 HP / 232 Atk / 28 Spe Thunderpunch/EQ/Meteor Mash/Explosion. Metagross can deal with both of your counters. Aglity Lucarios Close Combat does 54.8% - 64.7%, so it cant OHKO you but you can OHKO it with EQ. Offensive Gyarados with Earthquake does 44.6% - 52.9% damage against Metagross and you can OHKO it with Thunderpunch, even after Intimidate Atk drop if you have Stealth Rock in game.

So, i hope this would help you. :) Good luck with your team.

 

[chewyourfood]

So, i think you should replace your Swampert with Metagross.

Without Swampert, Scarftran will tear through the entire team. Jirachi is still a viable option because by surviving the respective attacks from the respective mons, it can hit them with Thunder Wave, and Dragonite or whatever can come in and etc. etc.

If you want, you could also use Scarf Jirachi. While it won't outspeed Lucario after an Agility, you can survive and KO it with Fire Punch after the Defense Drop. Taunt Gyara, after 2 Dances, is still slower than Scarfrachi, and Jirachi can revenge kill/whatever with Thunderpunch.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Punch/Trick/U-Turn
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
- Thunderpunch

Ice Punch can be used to kill Dragonite, Flygon, Gliscor, etc. Trick will help cripple walls, and U-Turn can help you scout (Like your Scizor does)

 

[sophos]

Your team's gonna have trouble with stat-uppers. The two Pokemon that can potentially sweep your entire team are Agility Lucario and DD Taunt Gyarados.

With and agility, Lucario outspeeds your entire team.
Damage Calcs, LO Lucario
Crunch Vs. Azelf: 100
Close Combat Vs. Swampert: 64.6-76
Close Combat Vs. Breloom: 100
Close Combat Vs. Heatran: 100
Ice Punch Vs. Dragonite: 100
Close Combat Vs. Scizor: 72.3-85.7

Taunt Gyara w/ Waterfall and Ice Fang will decimate your team. Swampert can't touch it, as taunt will shut it down. Scizor can't touch it with any of it's moves.
Damage Calcs, +1 Bulky Gyara
Waterfall Vs. Azelf: 69.7-81.9 (But it's a lead, it won't be alive long anyways)
Taunt + DD + Waterfall Vs. Swampert: Swampert will lose, Gyarados will get 6 Dragon Dances, lol.
Ice Fang Vs. Breloom: 90.2-100
Ice Fang Vs. Dragonite: 100
Waterfall Vs. Scizor: 65.1-76.9

There are a number of ways to solve your problem, but you'll always be on rocky ground when you see these Pokemon. You could try using a bulky Jirachi that can survive a +0 Close Combat or a +1 Waterfall with the moves Fire Punch and Thunder Punch for handling each of those Pokemon, respectively. Celebi works in a similar fashion, as it can survive a Crunch from Lucario and either Earth Power it for a KO or Thunder Wave it so you can bring in Dragonite or Heatran to KO it.

Hope this helps.

Is it especially common for a Taunt + DD Gyara to carry Ice Fang? The generic Bulky DD build on Smogon lists Stone Edge / Bounce in the fourth move slot.

Also, I would prefer working Celebi into my team rather than another steel type. Which of the pokes on my team would you suggest I replace Celebi/Jirachi with? I'm guessing Breloom since he doesnt really have a unique and significant role on the team as of now, other than maybe forcing a switch after Spore.

What set would you recommend for a Celebi on this team? I'm currently looking at defensive:

Celebi@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
-Thunder Wave
-Grass Knot
-Recover
-Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire

 

[GB_Packers_Ftw]

If you take off swampert for metagross, the only thing that can take EQ is dragonite and you shouldn't be playing him like that, SR will eat him alive with no rapid spin.

Celebi would be a very nice change of pace in place of breloom as it can take EQ and save heatran after he RK's something. It just has more bulk than breloom, which you need. Breloom is a very fun pokemon to play with bc its easy to use and mess up 2-3 pokemon on the other team but the hardest part is getting it in. Scizor provides your pysical threat so Taking Breloom off won't hurt your type coverage.

Picking a celebi move set, for me at least is one of the hardest things to do. Ive had most my succses with the perish song set. You might want to give it a try, it will give you a chance agaisnt things like curselax\crocune and also can phaze stuff out. its the same Spread you have but your gonna have u-turn perish song grass knot and recover. Try it out see how it works.

 

[sophos]

If you take off swampert for metagross, the only thing that can take EQ is dragonite and you shouldn't be playing him like that, SR will eat him alive with no rapid spin.

Celebi would be a very nice change of pace in place of breloom as it can take EQ and save heatran after he RK's something. It just has more bulk than breloom, which you need. Breloom is a very fun pokemon to play with bc its easy to use and mess up 2-3 pokemon on the other team but the hardest part is getting it in. Scizor provides your pysical threat so Taking Breloom off won't hurt your type coverage.

Picking a celebi move set, for me at least is one of the hardest things to do. Ive had most my succses with the perish song set. You might want to give it a try, it will give you a chance agaisnt things like curselax\crocune and also can phaze stuff out. its the same Spread you have but your gonna have u-turn perish song grass knot and recover. Try it out see how it works.

Thanks for the input. I'll give both move sets a test drive on Shoddy and see which works best with my team.

 

[chewyourfood]

Is it especially common for a Taunt + DD Gyara to carry Ice Fang? The generic Bulky DD build on Smogon lists Stone Edge / Bounce in the fourth move slot.

Also, I would prefer working Celebi into my team rather than another steel type. Which of the pokes on my team would you suggest I replace Celebi/Jirachi with? I'm guessing Breloom since he doesnt really have a unique and significant role on the team as of now, other than maybe forcing a switch after Spore.

What set would you recommend for a Celebi on this team?

Hi again, I remember using Bulky Gyara with Ice Fang in the last slot, but the last slot can really be anything (Stone Edge, Bounce, Ice Fang, Return, EQ, etc.) No matter what that last move is, Gyara can still cause problems.

You're going to want to keep your Breloom, because without it, this team will also have trouble with stall (Breloom is rather useful in dealing with stall). I stand by my suggestion of Scarf Jirachi over CB Scizor (Item Clause isn't a standard Clause on Shoddy Battle, so don't worry about breaking Item Clause). EDIT: Yeah yeah, "what about Dragonite?" Dragonite isn't sticking around long, as SR + LO + 1 turn of possible sandstorm will already do 41.25% damage to your Dragonite. Without roost, your Dragonite isn't sticking around long.

I interpreted your Scizor as a Revenge Killer utilizing a priority steel type move, a scouter with U-Turn, and a "wall-breaker" (Scizor doesn't really wallbreak, as it still gets walled by the likes of Skarmory, Hippowdon, Rotom, Gliscor, etc.) and a Gengar/Rotom check. But guess what? Let me show you a number of things that could happen against Gengar.

• On the switch in, Scizor takes 29.7%-35.3% from Shadow Ball and then 12.5% from SR, and then on the next turn gets KO'd by Focus Blast (Providing you used Pursuit instead of Bullet Punch)
• You bring in Scizor while Gengar Subs. While it Focus Blasts you for 59.5-70% damage, you break its sub with either Bullet Punch or Pursuit. From then on it can decide whether or not to switch out on your Bullet Punch, or KO you with Focus Blast while you Pursuit.

Basically, Gengar has a good chance of beating Scizor. Another thing, Scizor gets walled by defensive Rotoms.

Now let's consider Scarf Rachi, shall we?

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Thunderpunch
- Trick/Fire Punch/Ice Punch
- U-Turn/Fire Punch/Ice Punch

Before I explain the moveset, I would like to say that it is entirely up to you; your moves will depend on what Pokemon give you the most trouble, and what type of play troubles your team the most.

Iron Head is a definite must have on your set, so I'm leaving that there (If you'd like, you could think of it as a pseudo-Bullet Punch, since Jirachi outspeeds every Pokemon without a Choice Scarf, and outspeeds a large portion of the metagame with a CS attatched). Thunderpunch is for your Gyara Problem, able to outspeed and KO +1 Bulky gyara with SR 100% percent of the time. For the last two moves, I recommend U-Turn and Trick.

U-Turn gives you a scouting move, which you used on your Scizor. Plus, Jirachi is faster than Scizor, allowing you to U-Turn on frailer Psychic types and Dark Types without getting hit first.

Trick is a better "wall-breaking" move than Superpower is.

In all, I think that in your team's case, Jirachi is more superior in doing Scizor's tasks. But if you later find that Jirachi isn't doing it for you, then you can switch back to Scizor.

Hope this helps!

 

[GB_Packers_Ftw]

At first when reading the suggestion to put scarfrachi aside i threw it out because i thought it was meant to be jirachi over Swampert..which doesnt make any sense of course.

However now i think it makes alot of sense over Scizor. I back this move. While scizor in my mind is still the better revenge killer, jirachi acts as a pseudo situational counter for some big threats to your team mainly icefang gyarados as talked about
and also helps out along the line with annoying gliscor and flygon etc.. trick also can seriously rape walls if played right. Try out jirachi over Scizor

But if you do this then i would definately keep breloom there for its pure power. Jirachi won't be doing much to skarmory even with a t punch.

Your going to want to also play around with a different set on Swampert then, so that you dont have serious problems with stat uppers like i said in my first post. swampert does a pretty good job at phazing with roar.

 

[sophos]

Thanks all for the advice and tips for improving this team. I've edited my initial post to reflect the current status of the team.

After changing Swampert from the Curse + RestTalk set I am a little concerned about Infernape. Given how the team currently stands, is MixNite the best option for a sweeper? I'm considering replacing Dragonite for the following Starmie set:

Starmie@Life Orb
Timid / Natural Cure
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Hydro Pump
-Grass Knot
-Ice Beam
-Recover

Unless I can rely upon ScarfTran as a counter for Infernape this Starmie would be a perfect answer. Also, with Grass Knot I would be able to easily KO opposing bulky Swampert, which I think Breloom could have problems with. Ice Beam provides additional coverage against Dragonite, Flygon, Gliscor, etc. This Starmie can out speed TTar and can 2HKO all sets with Hydro Pump, which can also OHKO 32 HP Scizor after SR damage.

Would I improve this team by replacing Dragonite with Starmie?

 

[chewyourfood]

After changing Swampert from the Curse + RestTalk set I am a little concerned about Infernape.

First off, I want to point out that the change you have made to your Swampert gives you an option of removing Surf for SR, and changing your Azelf lead into either a LO lead, CB lead, or simply a Focus Sash attacking lead; basically, a lead without SR. You will find this beneficial because first off, Azelf matches off well against a lot of leads providing it isn't stealth rocking. Secondly, your Azlef isn't as much as a suicide lead anymore; you can switch your Azelf in and out, even in on an Infernape. I recommend that you try each of the following sets for Azelf.

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- HP Ground
- Explosion/U-Turn
You can really catch your opponents by surprise with this set. HP Ground will allow you to beat Shuca Tran providing it SR's on the first turn, and will OHKO non SDef oriented Heatran who decide to switch in on Azelf. Psychic for a strong STAB move (It OHKOs those annoying Machamp leads). LO Fire Blast will deal 99.7-100 on a non-Occa Metagross, and 96.8-100 on leadRachi. LO Explosion will seriously dent anything that isn't a ghost. U-Turn allows you to scout.
(The Focus Sash all attacking lead I was talking about is basically this set without a LO. Each set has its own advantages)

Azelf @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch
- U-Turn
- Explosion/Trick
Zen Headbutt OHKOs Machamps, Fire Punch 2HKOs Metagross, Occa berry or not. Now, U-Turn is the bread and butter of this set. If you manage to win a speed tie against lead Starmie, you OHKO with U-Turn. Same goes for opposing Azelf leads. You can U-Turn to hit Azelf, switch to your Jirachi, and U-Turn back, therefore limiting the opposing Azelf to either one attack move or setting up SR. In general, you will find lots of uses for U-Turn. Explosion can OHKO lead Heatran, and basically anything that isn't a ghost. Trick cripples leads like Swampert, Skarmory, and other walls.

Given how the team currently stands, is MixNite the best option for a sweeper? I'm considering replacing Dragonite for the following Starmie set... Would I improve this team by replacing Dragonite with Starmie?

You're gonna want to keep your Dragonite. Without it, your team will have even more trouble against Stall as well as Blissey. Mixape hopefully won't be such a nuisance to your team now that your Azelf can potentially last longer and that you have a faster Jirachi with Iron Head (24.6-29%) With the ubiquitous Sandstorm, LO recoil, and SR damage, Infernape finds itself in the same boat as LO Azelf, LO Dragonite, etc. If you can play smart and switch to smart counters (ie. Heatran into a FireBlast) then you've got Infernape beat. As a last resort, you could always hit Infernape with Iron Head, utilizing that flinch rate (A CC defense drop will also be helpful towards Jirachi's Iron Head).

I hope this helps

 

[sophos]

I was a little hesitant about switching Swampert to the same build as the Mix lead (with Surf instead of SR) without making him my team's lead because of Azelf. I really like your idea of giving Pert SR and turning Azelf into an anti-lead that could surprise people and come back later to cause some serious problems. In order to get SR up with Pert is my best shot to switch him into something he scares and then put SR up on the opponent's switch (I wouldn't want him to take too much damage without Rest or Wish before he has a chance to take down or cripple Luke/Gyara/etc.) ?

Thanks again! You've been extremely helpful to me and I'll definitely try both sets out.

 

[Lucien Lachance]

Well, as you probably know, starting the game off is very important. So I'm suggesting switching up the order of your pokemon to start the game off in your favor. Use Jirachi as a lead. Keep the set you have. It suprised the opponent right off the start and then you get a free KO usually. Jirachi needs help with Azelf, you just U-turn to usually Heatran and just use any move you want, and Swampert, U-turn to Breloom works for you. You can keep Azelf for later and drop Taunt for any move you want. Also use LO for extra kick.

The rest looks fine.Good luck with your team and I hope I helped!

 

[sophos]

Is there an IV spread for a Naive nature that gives Hidden Power Ground with a power of 70 without dropping SpA IV to 18? Right now I'm looking at a spread of HP 31 / Atk 25 / Def 31 / Spe 31 / SpA 30 / SpD 30 for HP Ground with a power of 68.

 

[chewyourfood]

In order to get SR up with Pert is my best shot to switch him into something he scares and then put SR up on the opponent's switch (I wouldn't want him to take too much damage without Rest or Wish before he has a chance to take down or cripple Luke/Gyara/etc.) ?

Hi again, that is definitely the idea for Swampert. You can bring in Swampert on Heatran, Flygon, Tyranitar, Jolteon (without HP Grass), etc., and set up SR as they switch out. The only thing you have to worry about is if they switch in Breloom; if this is the case, the best thing to do is to switch to a fodder to absorb the sleep/Seed Bomb, and then switch to Dragonite. Dragonite can roost of Focus Punch damage and whatnot.

Is there an IV spread for a Naive nature that gives Hidden Power Ground with a power of 70 without dropping SpA IV to 18? Right now I'm looking at a spread of HP 31 / Atk 25 / Def 31 / Spe 31 / SpA 30 / SpD 30 for HP Ground with a power of 68.

By giving your Azelf 29/31/31/31/30/30 IVs, you get HP Ground with a base power of 69. You can remedy the 29 HP IVs by changing your EV Spread to 8HP/248SAtk/252Spd.

 

[Lucien Lachance]

ugh... you haven't even noticed my suggestion. Makes me a little upset. It works amazingly.