BW Doubles Viability Rankings

[Stratos]

Welcome to the BW Doubles viability rankings thread, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in BW Doubles!

No need for a long introduction, if you are posting in this thread you probably know the drill pretty well. It's not going to be bursting with activity so I'm not going to lay down any specific procedure for moving Pokemon around, we'll just do it as we see fit, if that doesn't work out then we can hammer something out later.

Tier 0

Jirachi

Tier 1

Hitmontop

Keldeo

Thundurus

Tornadus

Tyranitar

Tier 1.5

Abomasnow

Amoonguss

Cresselia

Metagross

Kingdra

Kyurem-B

Landorus-T

Latios

Politoed

Shaymin-S

Tier 2

Conkeldurr

Deoxys-A

Excadrill

Ferrothorn

Gastrodon

Genesect

Gyarados

Heatran

Hydreigon

Infernape

Jellicent

Landorus

Ludicolo

Mamoswine

Rotom-W

Rotom-H

Salamence

Suicune

Terrakion

Togekiss

Volcarona

Weavile

Tier 3

Bisharp

Breloom

Darkrai

Escavalier

Manaphy

Porygon2

Rhyperior

Sableye

Scizor

Scrafty

Thundurus-T

Victini

Virizion

Zapdos

old ranks in case they come in handy

S Rank: Reserved for the top threats in the Doubles metagame. The pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support.

Cresselia

Hitmontop

Politoed

Thundurus

Tyranitar

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that function very well within the current Doubles metagame. The pokemon in this tier are either able to perform multiple roles to great effect, or execute one extremely well. Support pokemon in this tier can create free turns, but not as easily as those in the S Rank.The flaws that the pokemon in this tier may have are usually mitigated by their positive traits, or with minimal team support.

Abomasnow

Amoonguss

Breloom

Conkeldurr

Excadrill

Garchomp

Genesect

Gyarados

Heatran

Hydreigon

Jirachi

Keldeo

Kingdra

Kyurem-B

Landorus

Landorus-T

Latios

Ludicolo

Mamoswine

Manaphy

Metagross

Rotom-W

Salamence

Scizor

Shaymin-S

Terrakion

Togekiss

Tornadus

Volcarona

Zapdos

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that can fulfill a viable role in the Doubles metagame, but are either somehwat outclassed by Pokemon in a higher rank, or have notable flaws that prevent them from filling their role to full extent.The pokemon in this tier are usually predictable, and either require team support to work to it's full potential, or might provide free turns for the opponent. The flaws that the pokemon in this tier have are sometimes mitigated by their positive traits, or can be patched with some team support.

Arcanine

Bisharp

Bronzong

Chandelure

Darkrai

Deoxys-A

Escavalier

Ferrothorn

Gastrodon

Hariyama

Heracross

Infernape

Jellicent

Kabutops

Kyurem

Latias

Musharna

Porygon2

Reuniclus

Scrafty

Shiftry

Slowking

Suicune

Thundurus-T

Toxicroak

Venusaur

Victini

Weavile

Whimsicott

C Rank: Reserved for pokemon that can work within the Doubles metagame, however, they either have crippling flaws that prevent consistent performance, or require too much specific team support to synergize with most teams. Support Pokemon in this tier have a hard time creating free turns, and often allow the opponent to capitalize on the opportunity to create free turns for themselves. Pokemon that are completely outclassed by those of the upper tiers, may also be placed within this tier.

Aerodactyl

Blaziken

Chansey

Charizard

Cinccino

Cloyster

Dragonite

Dusclops

Empoleon

Gengar

Gliscor

Hitmonlee

Honchkrow

Jolteon

Manectric

Marowak

Nidoking

Ninetales

Rhyperior

Sableye

Sawsbuck

Slowbro

Snorlax

Starmie

Swampert

Ursaring

Vaporeon

Virizion

Yanmega

 

[Disaster Area]

you have an escavalier sprite for ferro

 

[AuraRayquaza]

I could definitely see ferrothorn moving up to A rank. It combination of great bulk, great defensive typing and speed make it a great catch-all to a lot of the main team archetypes in bw.

It walls the shit out of rain, kindgra cant touch it and is slowed down by thunder wave or just 2HKOed by power whip. Politoed is smacked too. Ludicolo is smacked also. Electric types also have a dismal time vs ferrothorn, especially rotom w.

Sand is also beaten by ferro. Ttar cant touch it since dark is resisted by steel and is smacked. Excadrill is beaten too as its earthquakes cannot do enough (unless it is SD).

It moves first in trick room because it is slow, and OHKOes a lot of non-resists with gyro ball when tailwind is up. If ferro opts for leech seed over thunder wave, it will stay on the field for an EXTREMELY long time.

 

[Audiosurfer]

ok some suggestions:

Keldeo to A or at least B, it's fast and powerful and has access to great support moves such as Quick Guard, Taunt, and Helping Hand making it pretty threatening, certainly more so than anything else in C rank. It has a solid offensive movepool as well, and is a big threat to Sand teams which is nice. It can also take advantage of Rain boosts as well. So yeah A or B, this is definitely a case of us sucking before.

Toxicroak to C, it gets destroyed by a ton of common Pokemon (Cresselia and Jirachi and Tornadus for instance) and is barely worth using as a fighting type even in Rain given all of the fantastic options there are. It can handle the Musketeers which is nice but it isn't strong enough to make up for the loss of power and/or utility that happens when picking it over other fighting types.

Dragonite to C, no one used it beyond youngjake and it is never very threatening. In gen 6 there's Sky Drop and Weakness Policy to make this thing usable but that stuff isn't even present this gen so it has no real purpose. Even in terms of its specific typing Salamence is better thanks to Intimidate, and don't even get me started on the other Dragons.

 

[Cease Tick]

ok some suggestions:

Keldeo to A or at least B
I agree, Keldeo is great, and I can't believe we ever had it at C.

Toxicroak to C
IDK, it only really has to compete with top and Scrafty as far as fighting types with Fake Out go, and it does gain a lot from rain. I've never really used it though, so you could be right. I'll abstain.

Dragonite to C
Agreed. I'd run mence>nite 10/10 times.

Sableye to B
Sableye has some excellent support options, like taunt, WoW, and fake out (while being immune to it as well), and Prankster is awesome. With its decent bulk + priority WoW and Recover, it can stick around to annoy your opponent for a while. Sableye's options are unique enough to keep it from being outclassed by Cresselia, and they're good enough to push it into B rank imo.

 

[shaian]

Keldeo to B (possibly A): Fighting type that isn't weak to Intimidate, good speed, solid offensive typing, and works well against a myriad of key mons. Main draw backs are weak to popular grass types, smashed by cress, torn, thundy amongst others, but still hella good.

 

[Vryheid]

maybe you should get another icon for Landorus-T or something

 

[ryo yamada2001]

This also got moved to the Doubles OU forum, in case you haven't noticed =)
I absolutely agree with Audiosurfer to put Keldeo in at least B, because it is a strong Pokémon (just everything Audiosurfer said)

 

[Taliheim]

[12:38] Mishiimono: are there viability rankings for bw dubs?
[12:39] @Stratos: Mishiimono
[12:39] @Stratos: there *are*
[12:39] @Stratos: but they are
[12:39] @Stratos: so bad

Bumping thread to get discussion on updating the ranks

 

[shaian]

at the hospital so cant post in-depth but repeating that keld needs a mad bump and lol @ arcanine

 

[Stratos]

just moved keld to A because i think we can all agree that it deserves that

 

[qsns]

Feeling that S Rank should probably be Cress/Heatran/Landorus-Therian/TTar/Thundurus.

Subtran is absolutely insane next to Cress Sunny Day + speed control support and Hitmontop. Wins so many games on its own even without support and has a great matchup vs most goodstuff teams thanks to its ability to check Volc, Scizor, and Latios while being able to set up on Cress. Obviously has a horrible matchup against Rain but its best partner usually carries Sunny Day and TTar is a good partner for it as well.

Lando-T's still Lando-T. Less necessary than it is in ORAS because you don't need it to check like every mega and is therefore probably the weakest S rank, but it still performs amazing against Sand builds. Intimidate is fantastic for supporting the team and has the ability to run a variety of items effectively depending on the team, including Yache, Sash, LO, Scarf, and Ground Gem. Can function on every type of team from (semi) TR to TW.

Top in S rank is ridiculous lol like Gem CC, Intimidate, and Fake Out are great and all but once the opp maneuvers around it in 1-2 turns it's really shit. Forced out a lot more than every other S rank mon, causing a huge loss in momentum and can't apply pressure past its first turn on the field.

neutral on toed's placement

 

[AuraRayquaza]

the thing with top is that it is pretty much the ultimate support pokemon (behind cress) in the tier. fake out and feint cause huge mind games for the opponent, because if they get it wrong they are in trouble. intimidate and wide guard are very useful, especially given there are few (if any) other viable users of wide guard. Even when it has done it's job of supporting, it still has a nuke in gem close combat, which takes a chunk out of most resists and non resists.

I still fully support tops s rank placement.

 

[Taliheim]

Should split the ranks into two subranks tbh, they're quite large atm and I'm p sure aboma isn't the same caliber as landog.

I'm new to BWDOU, but still have a few questions as to the rankings currently. Who knows, maybe some of my points are legit?

Abomasnow: Seems interesting to me how this is all the way up in A, I would assume B. Could someone explain this to me?
Skymin: It got banned in ORAS, what's keeping it in A here? I does well vs. the whole S rank bar bulky thund and gives a shitton of the A ranks a lot of trouble. Same Seed Flare/Air Slash shenanigans.

Arcanine/Bronzong/Heracross/Musharna: ...How are these in B, when they're completely unranked in ORAS? I can't see what could have possibly changed.

Chansey/Charizard/Cincinno/Cloyster/Hitmonlee/Marowak/Snorlax/Ursaring/Vaporeon: Really? How are these ranked in the first place?
Blaziken/Gengar in C? Is the meta really that unkind to them? (Okay, I guess I can see Gar, but not blaziken.)

This list seems to have a bad case of "everything tournament caliber is A", which is the reason ORAS switched to the tier 1/1.5/2/etc. system AFAIK.

tl;dr make subranks, start moving shit down

 

[AuraRayquaza]

Should split the ranks into two subranks tbh, they're quite large atm and I'm p sure aboma isn't the same caliber as landog.

I'm new to BWDOU, but still have a few questions as to the rankings currently. Who knows, maybe some of my points are legit?

Abomasnow: Seems interesting to me how this is all the way up in A, I would assume B. Could someone explain this to me?
Skymin: It got banned in ORAS, what's keeping it in A here? I does well vs. the whole S rank bar bulky thund and gives a shitton of the A ranks a lot of trouble. Same Seed Flare/Air Slash shenanigans.

Arcanine/Bronzong/Heracross/Musharna: ...How are these in B, when they're completely unranked in ORAS? I can't see what could have possibly changed.

Chansey/Charizard/Cincinno/Cloyster/Hitmonlee/Marowak/Snorlax/Ursaring/Vaporeon: Really? How are these ranked in the first place?
Blaziken/Gengar in C? Is the meta really that unkind to them? (Okay, I guess I can see Gar, but not blaziken.)

This list seems to have a bad case of "everything tournament caliber is A", which is the reason ORAS switched to the tier 1/1.5/2/etc. system AFAIK.

tl;dr make subranks, start moving shit down

honestly these have just been taken from the end of bw when we were all silly. I wouldnt look into the lower ranks so much but ranks S and A are pretty accurate imo.

in the case of abomasnow, the fully accurate STAB blizzard is pretty nice and given rains prominence in bw, it serves as a good switchin and a way to change the weather. I do agree though, B rank suits it better

 

[Stratos]

memoric, shaian, and myself redid the ranks from scratch, like me and bughouse did when we overhauled the gen six VR. they're probably missing a few things and probably not perfect. they're certainly more useful than the old ranks. Im gonna test out a few things in the coming days that we placed based on theorymon, and a few things we left off based on theorymon (toxicroak and slowking interest me). feel free to keep suggesting shit. i love BW (sans rachi), even if this VR does make it look like a pretty small tier.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

I think keldeo should move down to 1.5. it is outsped and ohkoed by latios, shaymin-s and tornadus (and fast thund). it's walled by amoonguss, gyarados and can't ohko metagross or cress while being hit for SE damage by both. I do agree that it is pretty good and has good matchups vs ttar and kyu b to an extent, but I don't think it's good enough to be tier 1

 

[Nollan]

Gonna post my general (and simple) thoughts, at risk of being hated but here goes:

I get that Jirachi is a potential suspect in ORAS currently, but why exactly is it so big in this metagame? The power of Gems makes it far more susceptible to getting OHKOed (examples include Ground Gem Lando-T and Fire Gem on Eruptran, which imo is a big deal in the format), and there are no big set-up threats on the level of things like MKhan and Azumarill in ORAS. Not to say it isn't solid, but I see it as a plain and simple tier 1.5 (I would say maybe 1 but I just haven't seen results from it in BW) or something along those lines.

I'd put Hitmontop in tier 1.5 tbch. It is great for utility and can get some KOes with that Fighting Gem, but Tornadus eats it up easily and Cresselia as mentioned later is very very popular. How would this be tier 1?

Cresselia should probably be tier 1 in this format, given without raw behemoths like Mega Kangaskhan, neutral hits don't come close to phasing it, which means offensive Cresselia is a legit thing in the format. Not to mention that Trick Room here is pretty solid compared to ORAS. For instance, this:

252+ Atk Dark Gem Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Cresselia: 372-440 (83.7 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage (and who even runs Dark Gem)

I think keldeo should move down to 1.5. it is outsped and ohkoed by latios, shaymin-s and tornadus (and fast thund). it's walled by amoonguss, gyarados and can't ohko metagross or cress while being hit for SE damage by both. I do agree that it is pretty good and has good matchups vs ttar and kyu b to an extent, but I don't think it's good enough to be tier 1

Yeah, Keldeo is not nearly as good here as in ORAS because rain (and Cresselia too I guess) is a big deal. All of the mons mentioned above are very common, which also hurts it.

Honestly, with Wide Guard being less effective in this format, I don't understand the logic for Lando-T being down in tier 1.5. Yeah, rain is around, but that's why Sash Lando-T is a thing in this format. Given its high popularity during B2W2, I see tier 1 as the obvious place for it (it's easily the best Ground-type and Intimidate is life). That being said, it's only a minor difference.

Heatran in tier 2? No. Fire Gem Eruption with Sunny Day support is stupid good in this format. It is basically a key piece of obliterating lives with Trick Room. It should be tier 1.5 at minimum, and I highly argue it to be in tier 1 given it also can run Substitute sets. Yeah rain isn't a fun day for Heatran, but teams utilizing Heatran almost always have anti-rain support in them, so this really shouldn't be that much of a discussion at this point.

Togekiss should be tier 3. Note that things don't ignore Rage Powder in this format (no Goggles either). If you want Tailwind so badly, better things like Tornadus and Latios should be perfectly fine providing such support.

Scizor can do a ton with a Steel Gem. Not to mention it does absolute work with rain. Tier 1.5 makes far more sense here, especially since Fire is a far less effective typing in BW. I would argue it is better than Metagross overall, who is in tier 1.5, so move this guy up that ladder.

Scrafty is somewhat outclassed by Hitmontop, but given it can hit and handle Cresselia much better, tier 2 is definitely justified at the least.

Breloom is very good in this format, because as stated before Fire-types are less common, Grass powder immunity is not a thing, and Focus Sash doesn't have to deal with Mega Khan. Tier 1.5 should definitely be a thing, have we forgotten the infamous TornLoom core? People found those two annoying as hell together.

These are overall most of the big things, other than that, looks good folks :)