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Hi, I just wanted to take a minute and talk about something I've been experimenting with a bit over the past few weeks.

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Thunder
- Trick

Scarf Rotom-W is something I had been thinking about for a while, and after watching BKC's video on rain, I decided to give it a try. It is an interesting option because rain + STAB boosted Hydro Pump hurts pretty much everything a good bit and Volt Switch makes it a real pain to come in on (I also experimented with Rotom-W + LandoT builds on rain, which is hilariously infuriating to play agaist). In addition, running Trick on your Rotom-W makes it so that, depending on the matchup, your Rotom-W or Latios could Trick Ferrothorn / special wall for the other to tear teams apart. I personally enjoyed Tricking away Rotom-W's scarf to destroy the opposition with Latios Draco Meteors.

The problem I found with Rotom-W is that it's trying so hard to be multiple things at once that it doesn't really excel at anything. It is a bit slow for a scarfer, which doesn't usually cause problems but is annoying when your opponent sets up with Volcarona because you can't revenge kill it easily. Another problem is that you kind of want to play Rotom-W as a bit of a buffer to Ground-types, but when Mamoswine Icicle Crash does 36+ and a LandoT U-turn does 27+, it adds up quickly if Stealth Rock is up and you are uninvested with no Leftovers. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that it just always feels one moveslot short. Hydro Pump is a necessity as it's the reason it's good in rain, Volt Switch has obvious utility on a scarfer, and I've touched on Trick already, which makes the last moveslot HP Ice or Thunder. HP Ice is great as it does a good bit to the many Dragon-types of the tier, allows you to pick off stuff like Gliscor and LandoT without missing, and a couple of things I'm forgetting. The really nice things about Thunder are that it A) allows you to stay in while using your Electric STAB which is nice against stuff like Jellicent, B) is Rotom-W's best option for cleaning late-game when you don't want to rely on Hydro Miss, and C) is a really great move to just throw out there because of its power and paralysis chance, which makes people think twice about throwing their Latios out there (I'd much rather let it Ice my Latios than paralyze it). Like I said, it can never do everything you want it to do.

Anyway, it's certainly a fun Pokemon that I would recommend giving a try. If you have any experience using it I'd like to hear about it.
 
So much Celebi in SPL, I'm a fan! I've been using a lot of Celebi myself after the sleep ban, as I find Amoonguss too unreliable and too big of a momentum sink. So far we've mostly seen defensive Celebi, but I expect NP to pick up more steam in the upcoming weeks.

Lots of Magnezones too, mostly because of Ferrothorn's sky-high usage. Will we start to see people adapting to it by switching it up with Ferro? Shed Shell? Worry Seed? Bulldoze? Leech Seed?

Gliscor was always relevant, but its usage seems higher than usual. Is it because of all the Knock Off usage?

That's about it for now, it's still early in the season and I expect a couple of people to surprise me down the road :mad:
 
Hey, for anyone interested in good gen 5 material, the BW OU SmogonDex is being revamped!
We have 5 new fresh revamps posted: Amoonguss, Politoed, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, and God Gothitelle.
Heatran also have a new set in the dex: Sunny Day Trapper.

We have other analysis coming soon, they are just in the line to be implemented (GP process).

Also, all mentions to Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, and Sleep have been removed from all BW OU analyses. :D
 
Double posting here...

My teams from SPL XII. This was also posted into the SPL BW discussion:

Week 1 vs dice
:tyranitar: :xatu: :seismitoad: :latios: :garchomp: :ferrothorn:

Since i was expecting a sand Zapdos team from dice (he love to use those stuctures vs me...), I decided to do a counter-team that also gives me decent MU versus more standard stuffs. Xatu do this since it completely blocks Spikes and most of the tier SR users. The main important aspects of this team is the offensive Tyranitar to pick surprises KOs, especially versus Breloom and slow Gliscor, and the non-Knock Ferrothorn, since Seismitoad already do it for the team. ChanChomp complement the offensive pressure, picking and demolishing more bulky teams.

Week 2 vs Soulwind
:tyranitar: :latios: :rotom-wash: :ferrothorn: :gliscor: :magnezone:

The controversial Eject Button Ferrohotrn. The idea here is to use it in the early-game to trap an opposing Latios or another Psychic-type with Tyranitar, and this is the reason Tyranitar here have Thunder Wave. Ferrothorn also have Endeavor to keep pressuring its checks, as no Leftovers means it lose HP really fast. Specs Zone isn't my favourite Pokemon but is a must here to OHKO opposing Ferrothorn and not let it up hazards. Gliscor set here is to cover the team weakness to opposing SD Facade Gliscor while improving my DragMag MU.

Week 3 vs Finchinator
:politoed: :ferrothorn: :tentacruel: :kyurem: :latios: :landorus-therian:

Peng already did an awesome analysis of this structure on his youtube channel, I sugesat you to go see it.
Anyway, a old rain build with Kyurem that have not see much usage in this sleepless meta. Everything here is standart so there is not much explanation needed. Landorus-T EVs are to get some surprise KOs versus other Scarf users, that think that can defeat standard ScarfDorus (minimal bulk). Kyurem is the team star, as this moveset is a new theory: while SubRoost is a classic, SubTect have seen a LOT of usage in other Pokemon like Excadrill, Tornadus, and even Thundurus-T, all of them getting similar results. Here I'm going for a PP stall to get advantage for Kyurem teammates. This team is amazing versus any balance that didn't have Milotic.

Week 4 vs Jimmy Turtwig
:latios: :jirachi: :magnezone: :reuniclus: :garchomp: :kyurem-black:

Classic DragMag. Just set up Stealth Rock and spam Dragon-type moves to win. No mistery here. Reuniclus also serves as an speed control and a counter-messure versus opposing HOs.

Week 5 vs GaryTheGengar
:skarmory: :reuniclus: :latios: :jellicent: :tyranitar: :volcarona:

Spinless Volcarona sand!!! This team have an amazing MU versus any structure that didn't have a fast SR user. Lead Skarmory, spam Taunt and hazard, and win the game with the broken moth. Easy right? If this fail you can still pressure the opponent with Scarf Ttar, CM Latios, and TR Reuniclus (and this one kick Celebi ass). Jellicent here is just to spinblock and to give the team answers to Keldeo rain.

Week 6 x Steve Angello
:garchomp: :volcarona: :breloom: :dragonite: :scizor: :starmie:

Smurf. Nothing more to add except that this one have SubsDDnite because this mon is broken.

Week 7 vs elodin
:xatu: :blissey: :dragonite: :cresselia: :excadrill: :ninetales:

Sun still need to find a good structure to work, but I'm happy with this one I used (even if I lose the game). Blissey here is what shines, because it removes one of the biggest stall problem in modern BW, Trick Latios. Ninetales here have HP Ground because I was expecting a Heatran from elodin... It can easily be swapped for Roar, Rest, Sunny Day, or even HP Ice. Excadrill EVs here is to give me ways to play against Banded Kyu-B. Dragonite and Cresselia are the main team wincons. Just play smart and patient that you will find a good setup opportunity. Just click X if facing a SR + Toxic Gliscor... belive me, its impossible to defeat this rare variation with this team import...

Week 8 vs mncmt
:politoed: :starmie: :scizor: :ferrothorn: :latios: :thundurus-therian:

After building a anti-ho team, I'm still salty that I lose to a speed tie + Hydro miss... welp, its Pokemon...
Specs Mie + CM latios + 4 atks Thundy is a nightmare to more offensive teams to deal, and even some bulky teams have no way to reliabily answer this. Scarf Scizor deals with Alakazam and scares away opposing Latios and Reuniclus. This is one of my favourite teams of this tour and I allways like my games when I'm using it. just watch out for Subs Dragonite; this Pokemon is a menance for this team and can do a clean 6x0 if it find a free set up.

Week 9 vs Vulpix03
:tyranitar: :rotom-wash: :breloom: :landorus-therian: :latios: :skarmory:

My turn building with the now popular Colbur Latios. This time I decided to experiment with Band Breloom, with saw a very high usage this SPL, and also put a theorymon in practice, Pursuit Skarmory. Since I'm using Roar with Latios, I can drop Whrilwind from Skarmory to use Pursuit to completely ruin Alakazam (and it also deal decent damage to opposing Latios). Standard Lando-T, Scarf Ttar, and Rotom-W to help Breloom breaking balance cores. Rotom-W + non-Choice Latios also makes a very decent core to check rain.
 
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Hi everyone! I'm coming back to smogon after a long period of not playing, and I am currently struggling with making a good gen 5 OU team, a format I love so far, but am fairly new to. My aim is to have a team that covers all bases and is consistent as possible; my ideal team is one that isn't super offensive, but is one that has both longevity (e.g durable walls, wearing down the opposing team) and the ability to perform late-game sweeps when the opponent's defenses and countermeasures have been weakened or removed. I have been testing a huge number of teams but this is the one that has performed the best so far:
https://pokepast.es/93814ea84a3ce88a
although it has performed reasonably well, i still feel like it is far from optimal, and that it has plenty of exploitable holes in its proverbial armour. Specifically, I feel that a lot of the time it is too slow, and that it doesn't have the sort of all-round resilience i desire. Any ideas and feedback would be greatly appreciated; any ideas for either improvements to the current team or completely new team cores and lineups would be awesome
 
stealthstone said:
Hi everyone! I'm coming back to smogon after a long period of not playing, and I am currently struggling with making a good gen 5 OU team, a format I love so far, but am fairly new to. My aim is to have a team that covers all bases and is consistent as possible; my ideal team is one that isn't super offensive, but is one that has both longevity (e.g durable walls, wearing down the opposing team) and the ability to perform late-game sweeps when the opponent's defenses and countermeasures have been weakened or removed. I have been testing a huge number of teams but this is the one that has performed the best so far:
https://pokepast.es/93814ea84a3ce88a
although it has performed reasonably well, i still feel like it is far from optimal, and that it has plenty of exploitable holes in its proverbial armour. Specifically, I feel that a lot of the time it is too slow, and that it doesn't have the sort of all-round resilience i desire. Any ideas and feedback would be greatly appreciated; any ideas for either improvements to the current team or completely new team cores and lineups would be awesome
Click to expand...
More specifics:
politoed has performed very well

i'd really like to use defensive tentacruel as a less frail spinner, but i am unsure as to what sort EV spread it should have in order to hit key milestones for both outspeeding and for withstanding troublesome pokemon

thundurus-t and rotom-w have often been really difficult for the team to deal with

i've also been testing very aggressive dragmag teams, but although they often feel like they have lots of potential, they often are easily swept through or stalled out

i feel like choice specs latios is a great option, but i haven't figured out how best to fit in into a team, and which teammates to use to complement it and offset its weaknesses
 
stealthstone said:
i'd really like to use defensive tentacruel as a less frail spinner, but i am unsure as to what sort EV spread it should have in order to hit key milestones for both outspeeding and for withstanding troublesome pokemon
Click to expand...
Yep, defensive Tentacruel could definitely work here. Replace Toxicroak because it makes you more vulnerable to stuff like Reuniclus, as opposed to Tentacruel which could stall out the green blob with a SubProtect set. The standard spread is below. Oh, didn't notice the Starmie, I would definitely change that to a Choice Specs Latios, since Keldeo is your scarfer.
​
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Protect

​
​
 
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stealthstone said:
Hi everyone! I'm coming back to smogon after a long period of not playing, and I am currently struggling with making a good gen 5 OU team, a format I love so far, but am fairly new to. My aim is to have a team that covers all bases and is consistent as possible; my ideal team is one that isn't super offensive, but is one that has both longevity (e.g durable walls, wearing down the opposing team) and the ability to perform late-game sweeps when the opponent's defenses and countermeasures have been weakened or removed. I have been testing a huge number of teams but this is the one that has performed the best so far:
https://pokepast.es/93814ea84a3ce88a
although it has performed reasonably well, i still feel like it is far from optimal, and that it has plenty of exploitable holes in its proverbial armour. Specifically, I feel that a lot of the time it is too slow, and that it doesn't have the sort of all-round resilience i desire. Any ideas and feedback would be greatly appreciated; any ideas for either improvements to the current team or completely new team cores and lineups would be awesome
Click to expand...

Tentacruel > Starmie almost always. Tentacruel has a much easier time switching into things and has Rain Dish as recovery. This combined with Protect makes it much harder to breakthrough. Another boon is that it is a spinner that doesn't get trapped by Tyranitar or the rare Scizor and isn't cockblocked by Jellicent (Because trust me, a spinner that loses to Jellicent is not viable in the metagame).

I would also put Thundurus-Therian here instead of Toxicroak since it is incredibly difficult to deal with in Rain. The safest set atm would be the sub set but 4 Attacks (Thunder/HP Ice/Focus Blast/Grass Knot) is also a fine set. Thundurus-Therian also gives your team an answer to Jellicent, who would otherwise annoy your team to death and pressures Reuniclus.

Lastly, I would probably change your Scarfer to Latios and make Keldeo Specs for better speed control + better matchup against Thundy-T and Rotom-Wash. Maybe replace Lando-T and add SR on your Ferro? If you want more details here is the set I would recommend if you are a beginner to the tier:

Specs Keldeo Offense
 
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Gamer1234556 said:
Lastly, I would probably change your Scarfer to Latios and make Keldeo Specs for better speed control + better matchup against Thundy-T and Rotom-Wash. Maybe replace Lando-T and add SR on your Ferro? If you want more details here is the set I would recommend if you are a beginner to the tier:

Specs Keldeo Offense
Click to expand...
i like substitute thundurus-t a lot, but may i ask why you are using this ev spread? I'd imagine it's probably in order to tank certain moves and outspeed certain mon, but i don't know for sure, and i like to understand all the details of the pokemon on my team so that i can use them more effectively
 
stealthstone said:
i like substitute thundurus-t a lot, but may i ask why you are using this ev spread? I'd imagine it's probably in order to tank certain moves and outspeed certain mon, but i don't know for sure, and i like to understand all the details of the pokemon on my team so that i can use them more effectively
Click to expand...
It lets you set up on sp def rachi, and ferro
 
CalamityGreed said:
It lets you set up on sp def rachi, and ferro
Click to expand...
nice, thanks. I've been testing the new team and it's been doing well, but i worry it might suffer due to lack of setup sweeper and/or a u-turn user, and also from not enough pokemon that resist electric and grass type attacks. perhaps i could use a setup version of thundurus, or maybe a different mon entirely? a ground type could be beneficial, but any setup sweeper that isn't too frail could be good. i've been testing a number of different options but i havent settled on one yet (i am considering breloom though). any thoughts?
 
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stealthstone said:
nice, thanks. I've been testing the new team and it's been doing well, but i worry it might suffer due to lack of setup sweeper and/or a u-turn user, and also from not enough pokemon that resist electric and grass type attacks. perhaps i could use a setup version of thundurus, or maybe a different mon entirely? a ground type could be beneficial, but any setup sweeper that isn't too frail could be good. i've been testing a number of different options but i havent settled on one yet (i am considering breloom though). any thoughts?
Click to expand...

You can't do much better than Thundurus + Latios + Ferrothorn on Rain teams for Electric and Grass attacks. Breaking teams shouldn't be an issue with Spikes + Thundurus + Specs Keldeo + Trick. Have you struggled versus anything in particular?

Breloom makes the team slower and weaker, and current BW teams deal with it much better than a year or so ago when it was everywhere, and Pokémon like Thundurus-T changed their sets to beat it 1 on 1, like the defensive EVs spread you asked about earlier.
 
stealthstone said:
i like substitute thundurus-t a lot, but may i ask why you are using this ev spread? I'd imagine it's probably in order to tank certain moves and outspeed certain mon, but i don't know for sure, and i like to understand all the details of the pokemon on my team so that i can use them more effectively
Click to expand...
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/thundurus-t-revamp-qc-2-2-gp-0-2.3679679/
this can help you with the thundurus-t sets

An option in your rain team is to go with Calm Mind + Dragon Gem Latios.
Should help you with the Electric-type problem while maintaining some destructive power. If you go this route, then use Encore Politoed (Scald + Protect + Encore + Refresh in this case).Also, use Gyro Ball > Leech Seed on Ferrothorn to help with Substitute Thundurus-t.
 
Gamer1234556 said:
Refresh > Perish Song imo. Especially when Toed tends to get worn down fast in games.
Click to expand...
i can see why refresh is good, but imo perish song is an amazing move for toed. i've played dozens of games where the only way ive been able to stop a setup sweeper is through perish song
 
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Perish Song is nice but usually any setup sweeper is going to hit you too hard when you use it, say we have this: Poltoed comes in on some setup Mon, for example, Swords Dance Garchomp, when Politoed came in Chomp used Swords Dance, while Toed uses Perish song, Chomp attacks and even if Politoed survives it's going to be massively damage and if you are fighting for dominance over Sand then you've taken a massive fucking hit and trying to ever reset that weather is going to be super annoying. You didn't even get rid of the problem, you just delayed it. Locking a setup mon into one move with Encore can screw with it over even more sometimes then just trying to brush it off temporarily. You also have to contend with dealing with whatever you are trying to force out with Song for at least one more turn after your song goes up. It's nice being able to threaten something beheind a sub but it's almost never going to work out quite as well as you think it is. I think Encore is FAR superior in it's ability to mess with just about anything
 
Samu77 said:
Perish Song is nice but usually any setup sweeper is going to hit you too hard when you use it, say we have this: Poltoed comes in on some setup Mon, for example, Swords Dance Garchomp, when Politoed came in Chomp used Swords Dance, while Toed uses Perish song, Chomp attacks and even if Politoed survives it's going to be massively damage and if you are fighting for dominance over Sand then you've taken a massive fucking hit and trying to ever reset that weather is going to be super annoying. You didn't even get rid of the problem, you just delayed it. Locking a setup mon into one move with Encore can screw with it over even more sometimes then just trying to brush it off temporarily. You also have to contend with dealing with whatever you are trying to force out with Song for at least one more turn after your song goes up. It's nice being able to threaten something beheind a sub but it's almost never going to work out quite as well as you think it is. I think Encore is FAR superior in it's ability to mess with just about anything
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i might give it a try then. if i play some games with encore i'll be able to assess which one i prefer
 
I've been running choice specs tornadus on my rain team recently and i've been having excellent results. Hurricane is explosively powerful and even pokemon that resist it will take serious damage. It's probably not viable, but i'm looking into experimenting with using prankster for a substitute set; however, i'm not sure how many EVs to invest in HP, if any. tornadus can't hit the magic 404 hp required for 101 hp subs, so i'm wondering whether to just max out speed and attack instead. anyone have any thoughts?
 
stealthstone said:
I've been running choice specs tornadus on my rain team recently and i've been having excellent results. Hurricane is explosively powerful and even pokemon that resist it will take serious damage. It's probably not viable, but i'm looking into experimenting with using prankster for a substitute set; however, i'm not sure how many EVs to invest in HP, if any. tornadus can't hit the magic 404 hp required for 101 hp subs, so i'm wondering whether to just max out speed and attack instead. anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Finchinator used Substitute + Protect a couple of times in the past year. Just run max Speed and Special Attack, you don't need the bulk for anything, and being faster than Keldeo + Latios is always nice.
 
LuckOverSkill said:
Finchinator used Substitute + Protect a couple of times in the past year. Just run max Speed and Special Attack, you don't need the bulk for anything, and being faster than Keldeo + Latios is always nice.
Click to expand...
Here's the set I'm using. Not sure about whether to switch protect out for another attacking move; I'll need to play more games before I can make a decision. I'm also not sure which pokemon to replace; it'd probably be thundurus, latios, or keldeo, but i'm not sure which. Thundurus is the obvious choice, but the team really benefits from volt absorb. I could always run choice specs or nasty plot/agility boosting thundurus, but i'm still unsure as to what the best changes would be, if any.
current team:
https://pokepast.es/38cd143f8c92419e

tornadus set:

Tornadus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Protect
 
stealthstone said:
Here's the set I'm using. Not sure about whether to switch protect out for another attacking move; I'll need to play more games before I can make a decision. I'm also not sure which pokemon to replace; it'd probably be thundurus, latios, or keldeo, but i'm not sure which. Thundurus is the obvious choice, but the team really benefits from volt absorb. I could always run choice specs or nasty plot/agility boosting thundurus, but i'm still unsure as to what the best changes would be, if any.
current team:
https://pokepast.es/38cd143f8c92419e

tornadus set:

Tornadus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Protect
Click to expand...
the team you have there (at least those six) is the single most commonly used team in BW. it's as standard as rain balance gets, and isn't going to hold you back whatsoever (except maybe because everyone knows the sets.) You could easily replace Keldeo or Thundurus with Tornadus and the team would be fine. I've used Torn with toxic spikes tentacruel which I think is pretty neat, it complements the subprotect stuff really well.

Unrelated to his post it feels like BW is finally changing. A lot of the people high on the ladder are using weatherless offenses, and not the same 3 dragmag teams that everyone has been using for the last 3 years. Feels like these Azelf style (not necessarily using Azelf just the suicide lead and 5 offense mons) structures were largely phased out in 2014 or so (ok idk the year) but they are back. Volcarona (especially with bug gem) is absolutely devastating to standard sand structures if it has the right hidden power, and the same for rain if it has a coverage move for tentacruel. Gyarados actually feels pretty good because all these gastrodons and seismitoads - he also counters the volcarona influx. Lastly DD dgem Dnite is really strong. Has a lot of utility for offense because of extremespeed, and can set up on dual hazards/knock/power whip ferrothorn.
 
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stealthstone said:
Here's the set I'm using. Not sure about whether to switch protect out for another attacking move; I'll need to play more games before I can make a decision. I'm also not sure which pokemon to replace; it'd probably be thundurus, latios, or keldeo, but i'm not sure which. Thundurus is the obvious choice, but the team really benefits from volt absorb. I could always run choice specs or nasty plot/agility boosting thundurus, but i'm still unsure as to what the best changes would be, if any.
current team:
https://pokepast.es/38cd143f8c92419e

tornadus set:

Tornadus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Protect
Click to expand...

Here is a set from the RoA if you are interested in using Tornadus. I would play around it with a bit to get an overall feel for the team.

Torn + Sub Chomp
 
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