OU BW OU Viability Ranking, mk. 5

[EonADS]

Omastar for C. While it's not always good, Shell Smash, its rock typing, and access to Swift Swim makes it a decent choice for Sand or Weatherless teams in need of a strong Rain check, and it can become an instant win condition against a weakened team with Shell Smash. Not amazing, but it's at least viable. I've used it for most of the past week on Showdown and it seems to play just fine.

Should note that even at +2 (either from rain or a Shell Smash boost), it can't outspeed most of the faster scarfers in the teir. Anything scarfed with Base 90 or above Speed is out of Omastar's reach at +2, which is why I'm only pushing for C.

 

[Caetano93]

Omastar for C. While it's not always good, Shell Smash, its rock typing, and access to Swift Swim makes it a decent choice for Sand or Weatherless teams in need of a strong Rain check, and it can become an instant win condition against a weakened team with Shell Smash. Not amazing, but it's at least viable. I've used it for most of the past week on Showdown and it seems to play just fine.

While i'm a huge fan and supporter of Omastar in BW, to nominate and add a new Pokémon in the VR we need replays of it working versus solid teams and good players.
It can be either in high ladder or tour games.
Get the replays and we can start a discussion about it.

 

[EonADS]

Unfortunately that's a long way off for me (I'm... very rusty, as I just got back into competitive after a years-long hiatus about a month ago). So if anybody else wants to jump on the bandwagon and collect replays for Omastar, please do xD

 

[phosphor]

I think the B ranks should be reorganized somewhat. I find it hard to believe Seismitoed is worse than Gyarados or Mienshao, or Moltres is worse than Kyurem, or Latias below Mew when it's more seen in tournament cause you can put it next to Latios.

Also, I wonder if there's a case now for Blissey's reintroduction to these rankings, given how it deals with Trick Latios better.

 

[Gamer1234556]

Also, I wonder if there's a case now for Blissey's reintroduction to these rankings, given how it deals with Trick Latios better.

I think this requires replays to warrant an addition to the current VR.

 

[Caetano93]

I think the B ranks should be reorganized somewhat. I find it hard to believe Seismitoed is worse than Gyarados or Mienshao, or Moltres is worse than Kyurem, or Latias below Mew when it's more seen in tournament cause you can put it next to Latios.

Also, I wonder if there's a case now for Blissey's reintroduction to these rankings, given how it deals with Trick Latios better.

Yeah, the Blissey will be a very nice adiction but we need tour replays to make a valid nomination.

About the B rank order, we can work on it. The metagame changed a lot since the B mons were ranked (late 2019).
You can send your B / B- list order and we can discuss it here and see what we can change in the vr. :D

 

[FNH]

I think the B ranks should be reorganized somewhat. I find it hard to believe Seismitoed is worse than Gyarados or Mienshao,

[Pretty sure you totally quit today phosphor, so best of luck to you bro, but I'll throw out my thoughts regardless whether you log in to read them]

Not a bad point. Siesmitoed is pretty viable and seems to be growing in popularity generally for its anti-sand capabilities. It's got Scald, Knock off, Refresh and Stealth Rock on top of a pretty good base 105 Hp. Water and electric immunities are pretty nice to have, allowing it to sit on Rotom-W really easily, forcing Ferrothorn or something to risk taking a scald burn. Thunder immunity is cool as an option for Thundurus-T, although Focus Blast really stings, so Toed isn't a great check to thundurus, but worth mentioning. Its major selling points and what makes it viable is how it can come in on Rotom-W freely with out caring to much about getting burned and Scald/Knock/Stealth Rock in return. With that said, Seismitoed becomes instantly invalidated if your opponent has a Breloom. Breloom, post Toxic orb activation, is really free on Seismitoed which is a huge determinent to the ugly Toad. Not to mention, despite the good base Hp, it's still kinda frail. Leftovers as its only form of recovery is meh as well, so Sies is still worn down pretty easily. I have been using toed a bit, and I do prefer it to Gastrodon because of Rocks and Refresh. Maybe the knowegdable players will pipe up on how it should be ranked. Actually Im pretty sure if i saw one being used several years ago I would have thought it was a joke. How little I did I know.

I personally think Gyarados sucks atm, and I have been a Gyarados fan for a long time now. Doesnt seem to do well against a lot of rain archtypes and never does well in/vs the sand either. There are just to many things (Ferrothorn, Rotom-w, Defensive Toed [can trap it with encore], Scarf Latios DM Stings, Etc) that need to be cleared for it to get a sweep off, and even at +1 its still relatively slow compared to other stuff (choice scarf shit like Latios). It's just harder to use, and bit MU dependant really.

Never really used Meinshao. I'll take your word for it.

 

[peng]

Some thoughts:

Garchomp in A+ is one I'm not sure with. Its undeniably a great mon but faces huge competition for teamslots. Mamoswine moving to the fore as an offensive threat on not only rain but sand definitely squeezes Garchomps out of teams that would previously use it - e.g. the more common "triple ground" combination I see around now is Lando / Drill / Mamo, where Garchomp now feels like one of the least favoured. Its obviously still a staple on DragMag and mixed sets provide something that the other grounds can't, but I'm really not seeing it around on sand nor rain much at all recently. Trying to claim Garchomp is a bigger presence in the metagame than Magnezone and both the big psychics doesn't feel right to me, but then again putting it down in A also feels wrong? Garchomp is just a tough one to place.

Agreed with phosphor on the B ranks, specifically with regards to Seismitoad. Jellicent / Gastrodon / Seismitoad being so far apart from one another is kinda weird because I think they are very close in viability. To me, Jellicent = Gastrodon > Seismitoad, but not by much. Regardless, I think all of them are better than Amoonguss, Starmie, Hydreigon etc.

I think Gastrodon to go into A- next to Jellicent, and Seismitoad up into B+ would be a decent switch.

 

[MANNAT]

rying to claim Garchomp is a bigger presence in the metagame than Magnezone and both the big psychics doesn't feel right to me, but then again putting it down in A also feels wrong? Garchomp is just a tough one to place.

This actually reminded me of something I've been ruminating on for a while now.

Alakazam to A+: It's no secret that zam sand teams have been taking the metagame by storm lately, either through the use of multiple psychics overloading their checks or spikes stacking to wear down ttar/steels for zam. SoulWind and Starmaster in particular have been farming wins in the permasand invitational tour with it. Everyone knows what this thing does, but that doesn't stop it from popping off in nearly every game it's in. Rachi's sharply declining viability on pretty much every form of weather is a huge plus for zam and it's just a menace for a lot of teams to deal with in general. I'm personally partial to the standard aoa sets shadow ball + hp ice for their ability to abuse reuni sand tems, but some other stuff like grass knot and hp fire have seen tons of usage for their increased consistency vs ttar and ferro respectively. There's a ton of cool utility options like sash twave knock off and encore should you choose to use them, but it's somewhat hard to fit them on with how much zam can viably run. The offensive and defensive utility provided by sash mg zam is invaluable for sand teams to the point that entire gameplans are built around whether or not one side can break zam's sash in time to win the game.

 

[Caetano93]

Garchomp indeed is a weird one to rank.
I understand the thought on it being A but in my eyes the LO Mixed set with Stealth Rocks still is a menance to the metagame and extremely useful in any MU. Tbf, ChainChomp is the only reason Garchomp still is A+ and I'm not a suporter for it to drop to A but we can rearrange it to be the last A+.

I'm ok with a rise for Alakazam. There is so much good options to run with it that Alakazam becomes really unpredictable until it show what techs it's running. Always a pain to scout and to deal if your oponent know what he is doing.

 

[Fakes]

I support the Kazam rise. Kazam is sooo good. its sort of a mix between a endgame cleaner, revenger and to a lesser extent wallbreaker. Think about weakening ttar for lati@s or reuni.

 

[Caetano93]

After some recent discussions and thought, I would like to propose a few changes to the V/r. Also, ty to FNH for the help with the gc.
[to be clear, these are my nominations for future changes, not a statement of what will be changed]


to A:

This nomination stems from Mannat’s nomination of . With a lot of different Alakazam sets being used currently, the infamous Substitute + Dragon Dance set has become a lot more viable given that one of its best checks is Hidden Power Ice + Encore Alakazam (which is less common in the current meta). Also Sub DD Dragonite is usable in about any playstyle ranging from dragmag, bulkier weather-less offense, sand, and rain. As long as Dragonite has spin support, the set can be made to work on almost any team. Most teams currently lack concrete plans to stop the Sub DD set, and after a few turns, Sub Dragonite can snowball out of control. The sets splashability on a wide variety of teams and styles warrants a raise in the V/r.


B rank re-order: phosphor is right in his post and FNH is god (stop messing with my text FNH ) : The B rank at the moment is a bit out of sorts. It current doesn’t reflect tour usages / wins at all, or account for current meta trends. So, here is my proposal for how the B rank should be ordered:


> > > > > >

Scizor has the highest usage in tour games, either as the SD set or choiced sets on rain teams with a decent win percentage. Seismitoad has recently established itself as an anti-meta mon that can be very annoying with its decent supporting move pool. It has good tour usage and fits well on sand teams. Slowking, despite my personal disliking of it, has also seen good usage on sand builds and weatherless offense teams, and pairs well with one of most popular mons in the tier, Excadrill, to form a formidable core. Latias, while still subpar to her brother, is viable as an anti-rain mon, with her signature Sub CM mono-attacker set. That set is actually really viable against common rain builds and can basically solo the rain; she also saw usage in SPL on a dragmag, so take that as you will. Mew is a weird one since it almost vanished from tours this year but it's Taunt set is still good. The last two mons, Gyarados and Mienshao, have fallen off in the current meta, but are certainly threatening given the right match-up. Gyarados can be a threat, but sadly in the current meta there are almost always one to many obstacles for Gyara to overcome before it can sweep. Mienshao, sadly, has been hurt by the current trend of Protect spam.



Moving on to the B- Rank:

at high B- while and are lower is cringe. The loss of Hypnosis hurt Milotic, currently making it an Alomomola with access to recover. Slowbro, Gastrodon, Slowking, and Jellicent all do what Milotic does but better. I’d probably just use Magikarp before I would use Milotic, cause at least I can get a laugh with Magikarp (i'm joking, use defensive Gyarados for the meme). Moltres, in my opinion, is clearly better than Salamence, Toxicroak and Kyurem. I suggest placing it right below Chansey. Xatu has grown in popularity, being used quite a lot recently in sand structures. Xatu can be very annoying for teams and is great at shutting down Ferrothorn. That said Xatu teams are more restrictive. I’d would place it right below Moltres, making the order: > >

 

[Gamer1234556]

Also Sub DD Dragonite is usable in about any playstyle ranging from dragmag, bulkier weather-less offense, sand, and rain.

Ok, this might not be the best thread to ask this, but I am just curious how Sub DD Dragonite fits on Sand. Doesn't Sand Chip from switching in basically undermine Multiscale?

 

[Caetano93]

Ok, this might not be the best thread to ask this, but I am just curious how Sub DD Dragonite fits on Sand. Doesn't Sand Chip from switching in basically undermine Multiscale?

Althought sand isn't the ideal weather for Dragonite, it still is perfectly usable in bulky offense or balance structures. It hunt down standart sand and rain builds so you can have more liberty in the builder. A fat sand team with Magnezone, Amoonguss / Celebi and Slowbro / Slowking loves to use a Sub Dragonite as an alternative win con.

 

[Gamer1234556]

Althought sand isn't the ideal weather for Dragonite, it still is perfectly usable in bulky offense or balance structures. It hunt down standart sand and rain builds so you can have more liberty in the builder. A fat sand team with Magnezone, Amoonguss / Celebi and Slowbro / Slowking loves to use a Sub Dragonite as an alternative win con.

Thanks for the explanation! I know that this might be off-topic, but do you care to send any links of Sample Sand Teams with Sub DD Dragonite in them? It's just kinda hard to find any since most of the teams on the forums here are rather outdated and the current sample ones don't have Sub DD Dragonite in them. I just want to try it out to see how it is and then explain my thoughts on the rise of Dragonite in the VR.

 

[FNH]

but do you care to send any links of Sample Sand Teams with Sub DD Dragonite in them?

There is one team we included in the samples with Sub DD Dragonite by the legend himself: Doctor Caetano93
Here is the link to the team

Edit: this is a really fun team btw

It's just kinda hard to find any since most of the teams on the forums here are rather outdated and the current sample ones don't have Sub DD Dragonite in them.

Well, the BW OU sample set was just reviewed and updated recently with top players such as Finchinator, BKC, and Caetano93 reviewing/Qc'ing the final set. What teams and styles should be included was also a group discussion by BW community. if you are unsure of how old a sample set is you can always view this post where I cataloge when changes and updates to the samples happen.

 

[Gamer1234556]

I was talking but a Sand team, but thanks anyways!

 

[Caetano93]

Thanks for the explanation! I know that this might be off-topic, but do you care to send any links of Sample Sand Teams with Sub DD Dragonite in them? It's just kinda hard to find any since most of the teams on the forums here are rather outdated and the current sample ones don't have Sub DD Dragonite in them. I just want to try it out to see how it is and then explain my thoughts on the rise of Dragonite in the VR.

Sadly, due to a problem in my Chrome, I recently lost all my builds and i still didn't recreate all of them.
But you can try a build of support Ttar, Ferrothorn, Scarf Latios, Excadrill, Landorus and Subs Dnite.
Or you can go more yollo and use Hippodown, Scarf Scizor (important to catch Latios and Alakazam), Excadrill, Dragonite, + 2 Keldeo answers like Slowking, Alakazam, Amonguss, Celebi, etc.

 

[Finchinator]

From A- and above, it mostly looks good, but there are a few changes I would make:

• should be at least on par with Thundurus-Therian, likely leaving both in low A+.
  • Tentacruel is as close to a staple on Rain teams as anything else right now and both it/Thundurus-T seldom see usage outside of Rain.
  • Thundurus-T has proven itself to be one of the most potent special attackers in the metagame, but Tentacruel has proven itself to be one of the best (and few viable) spinners and it very hard to take out without burn fishing when not using Sand.
  • Tentacruel is capable of carrying its weight when playing Sand easily, especially if it/Politoed are not played recklessly.
  • Rain Dish makes Tentacruel one of the most infuriating and potentially crippling Pokemon to play against in the metagame.
• should drop from low A to high A-.
  • Heatran is still a good Pokemon for sure, but it has some match-ups where it is limited and it fits on less teams than once before.
  • A big issue is that Heatran is another Spike vulnerable Steel type that is not capable of laying down Spikes (Ferrothorn) or removing them (Excadrill) that fits almost only onto Sand teams.
    • You guys may have noticed how Jirachi has fallen off on Sand teams more and more as the years have passed. Once upon a time, it was borderline S rank, but now it is mostly seen on other archetypes. Heatran is in a similar boat. It clings on to viability as it has a lot of great qualities as an overall Pokemon, but it still is limited, notably moreso than anything else in the A rank currently.
    • You will notice that every Grounded Steel type that does not involve itself in the Spike/anti-Spike game is struggling with Ferrothorn being as strong as ever. While Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Magnezone (traps Spikers) are all A or higher, Jirachi is A- and Scizor is B despite both having much higher peaks in the metagame's history.
• should be moved up. Ideally to low A, but I'd be ok with the top of A-, too.
  • It's easy for Terrakion to blend in with the other good-but-not-great breakers that trend up when included on flavor of the month teams and otherwise see respectable usage, but never truly dominate. This alone puts it in A- alongside Mamoswine, Dragonite, and Tornadus for sure.
  • However, Terrakion is the outright strongest Pokemon of this group and I do not think it is particularly close at the moment, perhps with Mamoswine being the only true competition with it of those I listed above.
  • NOTHING is able to truly counter Terrakion's Sword Dance Rock Gem set right now. Leftovers Landorus-Therian is the closest you can get, but even that will not be able to check an accurate, well-played Terrakion multiple times if Stealth Rock is up and there is any other damage whatsoever. This is easily possible in drawn out games and normally teams with Terrakion put a bit of emphasis on making this happen to begin with.
  • Terrakion also has great natural speed, which is increasingly important as having a second (or even third) Pokemon to outrun Thundurus-Therian or Excadrill can be quite important right now depending on the match-up.
  • Terrakion does not have direct defensive value, but it forces very specific lines of play. Ferrothorn has to think twice before clicking Spikes -- does it want to attack to assure a greedy Terrakion does not come in and try to claim a kill? what if it attacks into non-Terrakion and wastes a Spike opportunity? All of a sudden, that's a big net loss.
  • Rain teams also never, ever have a true switch-in to Terrakion, causing this scenario with Ferrothorn to pop up increasingly often and many teams to forfeit key positioning pieces in return for minimizing Terrakion's offensive presence in these match-ups.

Moreover, if I had to regroup the entire S through A- ranks, my personal ranks would look as follows:

Hide

S Rank:

Latios

Ferrothorn

Tyranitar

Landorus-Therian

A Rank:

A+

Excadrill

Politoed

Rotom-Wash

Tentacruel

Thundurus-Therian

Keldeo

Breloom

Garchomp (can be argued for dropping to the top of A, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

A

Alakazam

Gliscor

Reuniclus

Terrakion

Magnezone (can be argued for dropping to the top of A-, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

A-

Skarmory (can be argued for rising up to the bottom of A, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

Mamoswine (can be argued for rising up to the bottom of A, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

Heatran

Jirachi

Jellicent

Dragonite

Kyurem-Black

Tornadus

To briefly touch on lower rankAmoonguss, Celebi, Volcarona, and Scizor all have cases for being bumped up to A-, but they each have pretty crippling flaws and find themselves more inconsistent than the options currently in A-. In addition, Seismitoad and Latias likely belong in B+ whereas Hydreigon and Mienshao could afford to drop a bit. I can elaborate on any and all of these if requested, but mainly posted because of the higher ranked Pokemon I discussed above.

 

[Caetano93]

From A- and above, it mostly looks good, but there are a few changes I would make:

• should be at least on par with Thundurus-Therian, likely leaving both in low A+.
  • Tentacruel is as close to a staple on Rain teams as anything else right now and both it/Thundurus-T seldom see usage outside of Rain.
  • Thundurus-T has proven itself to be one of the most potent special attackers in the metagame, but Tentacruel has proven itself to be one of the best (and few viable) spinners and it very hard to take out without burn fishing when not using Sand.
  • Tentacruel is capable of carrying its weight when playing Sand easily, especially if it/Politoed are not played recklessly.
  • Rain Dish makes Tentacruel one of the most infuriating and potentially crippling Pokemon to play against in the metagame.
• should drop from low A to high A-.
  • Heatran is still a good Pokemon for sure, but it has some match-ups where it is limited and it fits on less teams than once before.
  • A big issue is that Heatran is another Spike vulnerable Steel type that is not capable of laying down Spikes (Ferrothorn) or removing them (Excadrill) that fits almost only onto Sand teams.
    • You guys may have noticed how Jirachi has fallen off on Sand teams more and more as the years have passed. Once upon a time, it was borderline S rank, but now it is mostly seen on other archetypes. Heatran is in a similar boat. It clings on to viability as it has a lot of great qualities as an overall Pokemon, but it still is limited, notably moreso than anything else in the A rank currently.
    • You will notice that every Grounded Steel type that does not involve itself in the Spike/anti-Spike game is struggling with Ferrothorn being as strong as ever. While Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Magnezone (traps Spikers) are all A or higher, Jirachi is A- and Scizor is B despite both having much higher peaks in the metagame's history.
• should be moved up. Ideally to low A, but I'd be ok with the top of A-, too.
  • It's easy for Terrakion to blend in with the other good-but-not-great breakers that trend up when included on flavor of the month teams and otherwise see respectable usage, but never truly dominate. This alone puts it in A- alongside Mamoswine, Dragonite, and Tornadus for sure.
  • However, Terrakion is the outright strongest Pokemon of this group and I do not think it is particularly close at the moment, perhps with Mamoswine being the only true competition with it of those I listed above.
  • NOTHING is able to truly counter Terrakion's Sword Dance Rock Gem set right now. Leftovers Landorus-Therian is the closest you can get, but even that will not be able to check an accurate, well-played Terrakion multiple times if Stealth Rock is up and there is any other damage whatsoever. This is easily possible in drawn out games and normally teams with Terrakion put a bit of emphasis on making this happen to begin with.
  • Terrakion also has great natural speed, which is increasingly important as having a second (or even third) Pokemon to outrun Thundurus-Therian or Excadrill can be quite important right now depending on the match-up.
  • Terrakion does not have direct defensive value, but it forces very specific lines of play. Ferrothorn has to think twice before clicking Spikes -- does it want to attack to assure a greedy Terrakion does not come in and try to claim a kill? what if it attacks into non-Terrakion and wastes a Spike opportunity? All of a sudden, that's a big net loss.
  • Rain teams also never, ever have a true switch-in to Terrakion, causing this scenario with Ferrothorn to pop up increasingly often and many teams to forfeit key positioning pieces in return for minimizing Terrakion's offensive presence in these match-ups.

Good nominations. I concour with all of them.

Moreover, if I had to regroup the entire S through A- ranks, my personal ranks would look as follows:

Hide

S Rank:

Latios

Ferrothorn

Tyranitar

Landorus-Therian

A Rank:

A+

Excadrill

Politoed

Rotom-Wash

Tentacruel

Thundurus-Therian

Keldeo

Breloom

Garchomp (can be argued for dropping to the top of A, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

A

Alakazam

Gliscor

Reuniclus

Terrakion

Magnezone (can be argued for dropping to the top of A-, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

A-

Skarmory (can be argued for rising up to the bottom of A, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

Mamoswine (can be argued for rising up to the bottom of A, but not an argument I felt strong enough about to include above)

Heatran

Jirachi

Jellicent

Dragonite

Kyurem-Black

Tornadus

Why Rotom-w lower than Politoad?
The S to A I think is a good reflection of the meta right now, however I still think that Dragonite deserves a higher spot seeing how insanely dangerous the sub dd set is.
Tornadus being low is a bit strange but can't be helped with the spam of Thundurus-t rain. This is really more a counter pick pokemon than a standart atm.

To briefly touch on lower rankAmoonguss, Celebi, Volcarona, and Scizor all have cases for being bumped up to A-, but they each have pretty crippling flaws and find themselves more inconsistent than the options currently in A-. In addition, Seismitoad and Latias likely belong in B+ whereas Hydreigon and Mienshao could afford to drop a bit. I can elaborate on any and all of these if requested, but mainly posted because of the higher ranked Pokemon I discussed above.

If we go to the reorder that I proposed, then Mienshao is going to be low B, borderline B-.
Latias I can see a rise: It's a nightmare to deal with double lati if you are not playing with Ttar sand. I'm still a Hydreigon defender as it did amazing for me in tours this year but i can see a small drop in the vr if we redo the B+ rank aswell.
Please elaborate on then, Finch. New BW players likes to go here or in the BW hub to learn more of the tier. A good imput of a good player is always helpful in the vr.

 

[peng]

I do wonder whether dividing the BW viability rankings into distinct rankings for "Sand", "Rain", and "Weatherless" would be a better way to represent things. ITT there's a lot of comparing Pokemon that are never actually competing for viability because they exist in their own little worlds. Heatran is never used on rain, so trying to gauge if it is a better or worse meta pick than exclusive rain mons like Torn-I, for example, is always going to feel clunky. I can’t think of another format where the viability of pokemon is so tightly linked to the team support you have for it (i.e cruel is an A+ rain mon but C sand mon)

Other comments:
I largely disagree with Terrakion rising. SD Rock Gem being uncounterable is nothing new and alone doesn’t seem like justification to rise. In an in-game situation, Terrak lacks comfortable set-up opportunities and is OHKOd by every pokemon on standard rain, which is one of its best match-ups. Even if grabs an SD, Terrak still has to nail an 80% Stone Edge vs Tentacruel / Gliscor / Landorus-T (the defensive set of which is at an all-time high) to break past them. Unlike other low acc-reliant Pokemon such as Alakazam or Reuniclus, Terrakion will lose upon missing a Stone Edge. It just feels like one of the most predicton reliant and inherently inconsistent Pokemon in the metagame.

tentacruel rise is fully justified

Mamoswine feels a bit soup du jour and I wouldn’t consider it better than consistent BW OU mainstays like Skarmory or Heatran, which are perenially underrated. It should probably rise a bit but now everyone knows to expect Sub + NMI/Metronome it has lost some effectiveness and it feels like people are now more aware not to just slap on 6 mamo-weak mons together as a result. Definitely a metagame presence but I don’t think it deserves to leapfrog so much.

 

[Caetano93]

I do wonder whether dividing the BW viability rankings into distinct rankings for "Sand", "Rain", and "Weatherless" would be a better way to represent things. ITT there's a lot of comparing Pokemon that are never actually competing for viability because they exist in their own little worlds. Heatran is never used on rain, so trying to gauge if it is a better or worse meta pick than exclusive rain mons like Torn-I, for example, is always going to feel clunky. I can’t think of another format where the viability of pokemon is so tightly linked to the team support you have for it (i.e cruel is an A+ rain mon but C sand mon)

This is an interesting idea. We can explore more of this during this year for sure.
I think here the best idea is to have is as an side VR, since the general one is still important in my opinion.

 

[Caetano93]

January VR update:

A --> A+
Finchinator did an awesome explanation about this rise, so I suggest you check his post here.
Not much to add to it. Tentacruel is annoying, unfair, and has the potential to instantly win games if using the right set.

and Drop a position
Breloom was stupid powerful at the start of the new sleep ban meta, but then teams adapted and it isn't an Excadrill-level treat to any team or style. It still can smash through unprepared teams, but every BW player now knows to have at least a hard answer to it, either with a Wing Attack Gliscor or a random HP Flying. Garchomp is in the same boat as its Scarf set has been a bit mediocre since Latios became the best speed control in the game. The SD set and the legendary ChainChomp is what makes it viable in the A+ rank but today, it's a lot easier to expect those sets and do a proper move to avoid the team destruction. Don't get me wrong, Garchomp still is a menace, it just doesn't have the instant fear-inducing face that a Keldeo or a Thundurus-T bring.

A --> A-
The molten Pokemon has seen better days. The new way of playing BW - with a lot of Earthquake users - has hurt a lot its viability. It's still one of the best SR users of the game, and is still a force to be feared with it SubTect or Magna + Toxic set, but is a lot more difficult to find a good build for it than 2 years ago in the sleep metagame. More changes for it are possible, either up or down.

Rise a position
Alakazam has only gotten better over the last year. New set combinations have been on the rise, while old techs have remained good. It's very difficult to know its set solely with team preview; it can just do it all. Some players have claimed it to be A+, but this a bit controversial at the moment, so I think that top of A pleases both sides of the discussion.

Drop a position
Magnezone hype has died out. It still does its job: it's very frustrating to face a good DragMag / sand Zone with the wrong team. The thing that hurt it is the recent rise in popularity of Psy Spam styles that didn't give a care about Magnezone builds. They're basically a perfect counter-style for HOs or sand balance.

Drop a position
No surprises here. Tornadus is still a very good option in rain builds, but its MU is so difficult versus standard Thundurus-T teams that it's very difficult to consider this outside of a counter-team strategy. Bottom A- is a good place for it.

B and B- rank reorder
See this post for the explanation. Even if there are some considerations about rises and some drastic places swapped for the B+ Pokemon, I prefer to treat those with caution and wait for at least week 5 of SPL before touching this subject. Let's wait and see if they did deserve more attention in the future or is just a moment of hype.

PS: I really like peng idea; Make a sub-vr for any specific weather style. I'm open to suggestions, so post your personal ranks if you want to contribute to this project.

 

[peng]

Got bugged on discord to do this, so here's my personal archetype-specific rankings. I think this is a pretty interesting exercise, especially in cases like Breloom/Garchomp (splashable on any archetype) vs reuniclus/alakazam/skarmory/tornadus (excellent options on specific archetypes only).

I'll probably edit this throughout the day cos there's a bunch of stuff I'm really not sure on (the more i think about it, sand gastrodon could legit move up a few for example, and idk how i really feel about sand Keldeo right now).

Sand:
S :

A+ :
A :
A-:

B+:
B :
B-:

A couple things here I'm still not sure on. I do think Breloom is below Reuniclus/Zam on sand, contrary to the overall VR. I like Skarmory a lot too and think its a staple of many many many fat sand builds, same with Gastrodon which I could move higher. Sand Keldeo is weird to rank and I'd argue that I'd be much more likely to build teams with the B+ mons than I would Keldeo, but Protect Toxic or even 4 attacks are both legitimately very good, just quite rare.

Rain:
S :

A+:
A :
A-:

B+:
B :
B-:

Probably the easiest of the ones to rank. Ferrothorn and Latios define rain almost as much as Politoed do, so I feel like sticking them S-rank makes sense (by comparison, there are no such staples on BW sand other than the setter itself, although some come close). A+ is just the other 3 mons on standard Rain, though these are much easier to justify skipping if you want to go in more of a Starmie-esque direction. The second major Rain archetype is Breloom/Jirachi which is represented in A, just a little below Lando-T which I feel is a good splashable 6th option on a bunch of rain builds, although it could be a bit lower. A- brings in the more niche offensive option of Mamoswine and Tornadus which feel pretty equivalent, and then Starmie / Excadrill as the nearest direct competition if you're adamant to avoid the obvious the A+ boys. The B ranks are dominated by even more niche offensive options including a bunch of dragons, Scizor (scarf + Keldeo or Thundurus is kinda legit), Celebi, Gyarados etc.

Weatherless:
S :

A+ :
A :
A-:

B+:
B :
B-: everything this low is a mess, just use tyranitar at this point ffs

Weatherless ranking is pretty difficult because dragmag by default dominates and then you have to try and find space for the other random kind of weatherless builds you see like Breloom/Rotom-W. Regardless, I think Latios and Jirachi (whether specially defensive, lead SR boltbeam on dragmag, or even random scarf healing wish) are two absolute staples on almost every viable weatherless build. Magnezone has to make it in A+ as it is the defining mon of what, 70%+ weatherless teams now? The other dragmag abusers Dragonite and Garchomp squeeze in A+, as well the other generally strong weatherless options in Lando-T and Excadrill. A rank brings Rotom-Wash and Breloom, incredibly strong pieces on weatherless balance, along with Kyurem-Black which is ranked a bit below Dragonite / Garchomp simply because you don't really choose to use it outside of DragMag, whereas the others bring a lot of utility even in the absence of Magnezone. A- gets into the niche offensive mons on DragMag in Mamoswine, Starmie, Salamence, as well as Reuniclus which is a decent win-con on a few different weatherless variants with CM or occasionally OTR sets. B-ranks become a bit of a mess because you're now getting into the "generally good mons that you might want to use without Tyranitar" territory - Terrakion and Alakazam fit in here for me, along with Skarmory and Jellicent which are defining mons of some rare but decent hazard stacking hyper offenses. I think below things like double Lati weatherless, you're probably just a contrarian teambuilder who is avoiding using sand just for the sake of it, hence why I'm not even bothering to fill this further

Again, lots of stuff I'm still unsure of here so I'll come back to this later today and switch things around once I've thought about it better.

 

[Caetano93]

February VR Update:

We now have 3 sub-VRs for sand, rain and weatherless, yay!!!
Any drop, rise, or inclusion in this new sub-vr can be done like a normal nomination, just inform that is for the specific one.

For the normal VR, new nominations are coming! Just waiting for the SPL week 9 to start them.