Lower Tiers BW Sub-Zero Used Discussion + Resources

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BW SU Discussion + Resources Thread

This thread hosts resources for and discussion of BW Sub-Zero Used (SU), the lowest unofficial tier on Smogon. BW SU saw early speculation during the creation of new resource for SU old gens in 2022 and 2023, and a tierlist was established based on ZU tournament usage. Since then, the SU Discord has hosted tournaments, scheduled roomtours, matchmaking, and discussion of BW SU and the new trends that have emerged as we've adjusted the tierlist over time. Now, we're happy to share our tier's resources and discuss more directly on Smogon!

Pokemon are tiered as ZU based on BW ZU tournament usage, where >3.41% cumulative usage in all of ZUPL IV-VI, Olympiad I-II, Classic V-VI, and BWPL II-III.

Arbok, Bibarel, Clefairy, Emolga, Frillish, Glaceon, Grumpig, Hippopotas, Ivysaur, Kingler, Lairon, Leafeon, Meganium, Mienfoo, Mr. Mime, Muk, Pawniard, Pelipper, Persian, Pikachu, Raichu, Shlegon, Simisear, Slaking, Solrock, Staryu, Vibrava, Walrein, Whiscash, Wormadam-Trash

Pokemon tiered as ZUBL, PU, and above are also not allowed in SU.
SU has its own banlist for Pokemon and other metagame elements. This includes:
Butterfree, Dustox, Heat Rock, Mothim, Munchlax, Raticate

Sleep moves, Arena Trap, Drought, and Shadow Tag are also disallowed
bw_su_mid_2025_vr.png

Last update: June 25th, 2025
Personal VR Tool
Use this challenge command to play on Pokemon Showdown!
/challenge gen5zu @@@ -Arbok, -Bibarel, -Butterfree, -Clefairy, -Emolga, -Frillish, -Glaceon, -Grumpig, -Hippopotas, -Ivysaur, -Kingler, -Lairon, -Leafeon, -Meganium, -Mienfoo, -Mr. Mime, -Muk, -Pawniard, -Pelipper, -Persian, -Pikachu, -Raichu, -Shelgon, -Simisear, -Slaking, -Solrock, -Staryu, -Vibrava, -Walrein, -Whiscash, -Wormadam-Trash, +Damp Rock, -Butterfree, -Dustox, -Heat Rock, -Mothim, -Munchlax, -Raticate
Council: missangelic (SU leader), sleid, Zpice, Aides, Fastwalker22, Gerrychu29, Valerie
 
Last edited:
Additional resources​
Tier 0: 400 and above​
Speed​
Sprites​
Pokemon​
Base​
Nature​
EVs​
IVs​
Boosts​
634​
:grovyle:
Grovyle​
95​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
634​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1(+1)​
622​
:leavanny:
Leavanny​
92​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
618​
:lumineon:
Lumineon​
91​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
590​
:girafarig::seadra:
Girafarig, Seadra​
85​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
578​
:grovyle:
Grovyle​
95​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
577​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+1(+1)​
566​
:leavanny:
Leavanny​
92​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
564​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
562​
:lumineon:
Lumineon​
91​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
538​
:girafarig::seadra:
Girafarig, Seadra​
85​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
524​
:lunatone:
Lunatone​
70​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
516​
:seaking:
Seaking​
68​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
514​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
502​
:beautifly:
Beautifly​
65​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
492​
:fearow:
Fearow​
100​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
480​
:masquerain:
Masquerain​
60​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
478​
:lunatone:
Lunatone​
70​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
475​
:plusle:
Plusle​
95​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
472​
:croconaw:
Croconaw​
58​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
470​
:seaking:
Seaking​
68​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
469​
:magmar:
Magmar​
93​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
466​
:leavanny:
Leavanny​
92​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
459​
:furret:
Furret​
90​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
458​
:weepinbell:
Weepinbell​
55​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
442​
:girafarig::stantler:
Girafarig, Stantler​
85​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
442​
:pupitar:
Pupitar​
51​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
436​
:beartic::bellossom:
Beartic, Bellossom​
50​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
430​
:croconaw:
Croconaw​
58​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
426​
:gastly::phione:
Gastly / Phione​
80​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
423​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
418​
:weepinbell:
Weepinbell​
55​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
412​
:girafarig:
Girafarig​
85​
Neutral​
0​
31​
+2​
409​
:beedrill:
Beedrill​
75​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
402​
:pupitar:
Pupitar​
51​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​

Tier 1: 300 - 399​
Speed​
Sprites​
Pokemon​
Base​
Nature​
EVs​
IVs​
Boosts​
398​
:beartic::bellossom:
Beartic, Bellossom​
50​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
393​
:luxray::mankey::mightyena:
Luxray, Mankey, Mightyena​
70​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
392​
:gloom::porygon:
Gloom, Porygon​
40​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
387​
:exploud:
Exploud​
68​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
385​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+1​
384​
:hypno:
Hypno​
67​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
376​
:beautifly::chimecho::flareon::heatmor::seviper:
Beautifly, Chimecho, Falreon, Heatmor, Seviper​
65​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
360​
:masquerain::meditite::wailord:
Masquerain, Meditite, Wailord​
60​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
358​
:gloom::porygon:
Gloom, Porygon​
40​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
354​
:cranidos::croconaw:
Cranidos, Croconaw​
58​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
348​
:exploud:
Exploud​
68​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+1​
348​
:magcargo::sudowoodo:
Magcargo, Sudowoodo​
30​
Positive​
252​
31​
+2​
343​
:lampent::pignite:
Lampent, Pignite​
55​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
339​
:lopunny:
Lopunny​
105​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
331​
:pupitar:
Pupitar​
51​
Positive​
252​
31​
+1​
328​
:fearow:
Fearow​
100​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
322​
:croconaw:
Croconaw​
58​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+1​
318​
:magcargo::sudowoodo:
Magcargo, Sudowoodo​
30​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+2​
317​
:grovyle::plusle:
Grovyle, Plusle​
95​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
311​
:leavanny:
Leavanny​
92​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
309​
:lumineon:
Lumineon​
91​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
306​
:abra::furret:
Abra, Furret​
90​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
301​
:pupitar:
Pupitar​
51​
Neutral​
252​
31​
+1​

Tier 2: 200 - 299​
Speed​
Sprites​
Pokemon​
Base​
Nature​
EVs​
IVs​
Boosts​
295​
:girafarig::seadra::stantler:
Girafarig, Seadra, Stantler​
85​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
291​
:servine:
Servine​
83​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
289​
:grovyle:
Grovyle​
95​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
284​
:gastly::phione:
Gastly, Phione​
80​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
283​
:leavanny:
Leavanny​
92​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
282​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
281​
:lumineon:
Lumineon​
91​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
273​
:anorith::beedrill:
Anorith, Beedrill​
75​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
269​
:girafarig::seadra:
Girafarig, Seadra​
85​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
262​
:archen::dewgong::lunatone::luxray::mankey::mightyena::noctowl::onix:
Archen, Dewgong, Lunatone, Luxray, Mankey, Mightyena, Noctowl, Onix​
70​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
258​
:drilbur::exploud::seaking:
Drilbur, Exploud, Seaking​
68​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
257​
:vanilluxe:
Vanilluxe​
79​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
256​
:hypno:
Hypno​
67​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
251​
:beautifly::chimecho::flareon::heatmor::seviper:
Beautifly, Chimecho, Flareon, Heatmor, Seviper​
65​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
240​
:masquerain::meditite::wailord:
Masquerain, Meditite, Wailord​
60​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
239​
:dewgong::lunatone::luxray::mightyena:
Dewgong, Lunatone, Luxray, Mightyena​
70​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
236​
:cranidos::croconaw:
Cranidos, Croconaw​
58​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
235​
:drilbur::exploud::seaking:
Drilbur, Exploud, Seaking​
68​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
234​
:venipede:
Venipede​
57​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
233​
:hypno:
Hypno​
67​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
229​
:heatmor::seviper:
Heatmor, Seviper​
65​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
229​
:lampent::pignite::swalot: :weepinbell:
Lampent, Pignite, Swalot, Weepinbell​
55​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
221​
:pupitar:
Pupitar​
51​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
219​
:meditite:
Meditite​
60​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
218​
:beartic::bellossom:
Beartic, Bellossom​
50​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
215​
:croconaw:
Croconaw​
58​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
210​
:carnivine:
Carnivine​
46​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
209​
:lampent::pignite::swalot::weepinbell:
Lampent, Pignite, Swalot, Weepinbell​
55​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
207​
:granbull::octillery:
Granbull, Octillery​
45​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
206​
:girafarig:
Girafarig​
85​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
201​
:pupitar:
Pupitar​
51​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​

Tier 3: 100 - 199​
Speed​
Sprites​
Pokemon​
Base​
Nature​
EVs​
IVs​
Boosts​
199​
:beartic::bellossom:
Beartic, Bellossom​
50​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
196​
:lumineon:
Lumineon​
91​
Negative​
0​
31​
0​
196​
:phione:
Phione​
80​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
196​
:gloom::porygon:
Gloom, Porygon​
40​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
191​
:carnivine:
Carnivine​
46​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
189​
:granbull::octillery:
Granbull, Octillery​
45​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
186​
:beedrill:
Beedrill​
75​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
179​
:gloom::porygon:
Gloom, Porygon​
40​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
176​
:phione:
Phione​
80​
Negative​
0​
31​
0​
176​
:dewgong::lunatone::luxray::mightyena::noctowl:
Dewgong, Lunatone, Luxray, Mightyena, Noctowl​
70​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
174​
:palpitoad:
Palpitoad​
69​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
174​
:magcargo: :sudowoodo:
Magcargo, Sudowoodo​
30​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
172​
:drilbur::exploud::seaking:
Drilbur, Exploud, Seaking​
68​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
170​
:chinchou: :hypno:
Chinchou, Hypno​
67​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
168​
:lumineon:
Lumineon​
91​
Negative​
0​
0​
0​
166​
:chimecho::flareon::seviper:
Chimecho, Flareon, Seviper​
65​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
159​
:magcargo::sudowoodo:
Magcargo, Sudowoodo​
30​
Neutral​
252​
31​
0​
156​
:vullaby::wailord:
Vullaby, Wailord​
60​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
152​
:croconaw:
Croconaw​
58​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
148​
:phione:
Phione​
80​
Negative​
0​
0​
0​
146​
:baltoy::budew::pignite::swalot::weepinbell:
Baltoy, Budew, Pignite, Swalot, Weepinbell​
55​
Nuetral​
0​
31​
0​
141​
:pineco:
Pineco​
15​
Positive​
252​
31​
0​
138​
:pupitar:
Pupitar​
51​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
136​
:bellossom::marshtomp::prinplup:
Bellossom, Marshtomp, Prinplup​
50​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
128​
:carnivine:
Carnivine​
46​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
126​
:dunsparce::granbull::octillery:
Dunsparce, Granbull, Octillery​
45​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
122​
:squirtle:
Squirtle​
43​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
116​
:eelektrik::gloom::kecleon::porygon::sandshrew::togetic:
Eelektrik, Gloom, Kecleon, Porygon, Sandshrew, Togetic​
40​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
108​
:grotle:
Grotle​
36​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
106​
:corsola::graveler:
Corsola, Graveler​
35​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​

Tier 4: 99 and below​
Speed​
Sprites​
Pokemon​
Base​
Nature​
EVs​
IVs​
Boosts​
96​
:lickitung::magcargo::sudowoodo:
Lickitung, Magcargo, Sudowoodo​
30​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
86​
:duskull::shelmet:
Duskull, Shelmet​
25​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
82​
:lileep:
Lileep​
23​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
76​
:eelektrik:
Eelektrik​
40​
Negative​
0​
0​
0​
76​
:solosis:
Solosis​
20​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
73​
:lileep:
Lileep​
23​
Negative​
0​
31​
0​
66​
:pineco::slowpoke:
Pineco, Slowpoke​
15​
Neutral​
0​
31​
0​
Pokemon listed are organized by the VR and if they can viably perform the intended role

Utility Roles

Entry Hazards

Stealth Rock
:archen::corsola::drilbur::dunsparce::graveler::grotle::lunatone::marshtomp::onix::palpitoad::pupitar::sudowoodo:|:anorith::baltoy::cranidos::kecleon::lileep::magcargo::pineco::sandshrew:
Spikes
:budew::shelmet:|:pineco::venipede:
Toxic Spikes
|:beedrill::pineco::venipede:
Rapid Spin
:drilbur:|:anorith::pineco::sandshrew::squirtle:
Spinblockers
:gastly::lampent:|:duskull:
Grounded Posion-types
:budew::gloom::seviper::swalot:|:beedrill::venipede::weepinbell:

Item Control
Trick / Switcheroo
:abra::chimecho::gastly::girafarig::hypno::lampent:|:furret::kecleon::meditite:
Knock Off
:abra::archen::chimecho::eelektrik::gastly::leavanny::lickitung::phione::seaking::seviper::vullaby:|:beedrill::carnivine::furret::heatmor::kecleon::sandshrew::servine::weepinbell:

Other Utility
Encore
:abra::dewgong::lopunny::plusle::shelmet::swalot:|:chatot::illumise::togetic:
Taunt
:abra::archen::chimecho::gastly::hypno::lampent::mightyena::onix::seviper::vanilluxe::vullaby:|:chatot::heatmor::servine:



Offensive Roles

Attackers

Physical Attackers
:beartic::bellossom::croconaw::fearow::girafarig::granbull::leavanny::luxray::magmar::pignite::stantler::sudowoodo:|:carnivine::cranidos::exploud::flareon:
Special Attackers
:abra::chimecho::bellossom::gastly::girafarig::gloom::hypno::lampent::lunatone::luxray::magmar::octillery::phione::plusle::seviper::vanilluxe::wailord:|:exploud::heatmor::seadra:
Mixed Attackers
:girafarig::magmar::seviper::stantler:|:exploud::heatmor:

Choice Item Users
Choice Band
:beartic::fearow::granbull::pignite::seviper::stantler::sudowoodo:|:exploud::furret::meditite:
Choice Specs
:bellossom::chimecho::gastly::girafarig::hypno::lampent::lumineon::luxray::magmar::octillery::phione::plusle::seviper::vanilluxe::wailord:|:chatot::exploud::heatmor::seadra:

Setup Users
Agility/Autotomize/Rock Polish
:dunsparce::girafarig::graveler::leavanny::lunatone::sudowoodo::vanilluxe:|:anorith::cranidos::seadra:
Bulk Up
:granbull:|:meditite:
Calm Mind
:abra::chimecho::dunsparce::girafarig::hypno::lampent::leavanny::lunatone:|:servine:
Coil
:dunsparce::eelektrik::seviper:|:servine:
Curse
:pignite::lickitung::pupitar::sudowoodo::swalot:
Dragon Dance
:croconaw::pupitar:
Nasty Plot
:hypno::plusle:|:chatot::togetic:
Quiver Dance
:masquerain:|:beautifly:
Rain Dance
:beartic::lumineon::palpitoad::seaking:
Salac Berry
:plusle:|:heatmor:
Sunny Day
:bellossom::gloom::leavanny:|:weepinbell:
Swords Dance
:beartic::bellossom::croconaw::drilbur::gloom::grotle::leavanny:|:beedrill::carnivine::cranidos::grovyle::sandshrew::servine:
Weak Armor
:vanilluxe:|:magcargo:
Work Up
:fearow::girafarig::lopunny::pignite::stantler:|:exploud::noctowl:
Other Setup Users
:mightyena:(Howl, Moxie) |:grovyle:(Unburden),:magcargo:(Shell Smash),:weepinbell:(Growth)

Priority
Aqua Jet
:beartic::croconaw::dewgong:
Fake Out
:lopunny:|:kecleon::meditite:
Ice Shard
:dewgong::vanilluxe:
Quick Attack
:archen::fearow::lopunny::luxray:|:flareon::furret:
Sucker Punch
:corsola::gastly::girafarig::graveler::mightyena::seviper::stantler::sudowoodo:|:furret::heatmor::kecleon::weepinbell:
Other Priority Users
:magmar:(Mach Punch) |:meditite:(Bullet Punch)



Hyper Offensive Roles
note: Heat Rock is banned

Self-KO move users
Explosion
:corsola::gastly::graveler::lunatone::onix::sudowoodo::swalot::vanilluxe::wailord:| :baltoy::magcargo::pineco:
Memento
:lampent:|:duskull::magcargo:

Rain
Setters
:chimecho::corsola::fearow::gastly::lopunny::lumineon::lunatone::phione::plusle:|:chatot::illumise:
Beneficiaries
:beartic::lumineon::octillery::palpitoad::plusle::seaking::wailord:|:anorith:

Trick Room
Setters
:abra::chimecho::gastly::lampent::lunatone:|:baltoy::duskull::kecleon::porygon:
Beneficiaries
:beartic::bellossom::granbull::graveler::lampent::octillery::pignite::sudowoodo:|:cranidos::porygon:



Defensive Roles

Walls

Physical Walls
:bellossom::chimecho::corsola::eelektrik::gastly::gloom::granbull::graveler::hypno::lunatone::luxray::marshtomp::pupitar::shelmet::sudowoodo::swalot::vullaby::wailord::wormadam-sandy:|:carnivine::duskull::grotle::lileep::magcargo::servine::togetic:
Special Walls
:bellossom::chimecho::dunsparce::eelektrik::gloom::hypno::lickitung::marshtomp::seaking::swalot::vullaby::wormadam-sandy:|:carnivine::flareon::kecleon::porygon::servine::togetic:
Mixed Walls :bellossom: :chimecho::dunsparce: :eelektrik: :hypno: :lileep: :luxray: :marshtomp: :pupitar: :swalot: :vullaby:| :carnivine: :servine: :togetic:

Pivots
U-turn (Fast/Offensive)
:archen::fearow::lumineon::phione:|:beedrill::chatot::furret::mankey:
U-turn (Slow/Defensive)
:eelektrik::lumineon::phione::vullaby:|:illumise:
Volt Switch (Fast/Offensive)
:luxray::plusle:
Volt Switch (Slow/Defensive)
:eelektrik::luxray:|:chinchou:
Regenerator
:corsola:|:solosis:

Anti-Setup
Dragon Tail
:lickitung::onix::seviper:
Haze
:seaking:
Roar / Whirlwind
:granbull::luxray::onix::vullaby::wailord:

Clerics
Wish
:chimecho::girafarig::hypno::lickitung:|:flareon::illumise::togetic:
Aromatherapy/Heal Bell
:chimecho::granbull::leavanny::lickitung::lopunny::mightyena::phione:|:chinchou::flareon::servine::togetic:
Healing Wish
:chimecho::lopunny:

Status Spreading
note: Sleep moves are banned
Burn
Will-O-Wisp
:gastly::lampent::magmar::pignite:|:duskull::flareon::heatmor::magcargo:
Lava Plume / Scald
:corsola::lumineon::magmar::marshtomp::masquerain::octillery::palpitoad::phione::seaking::wailord:|:chinchou::flareon::magcargo::seadra:
Flame Body
:lampent::magmar:|:magcargo:
Paralysis
Glare
:seviper:|:servine:
Stun Spore
:bellossom::gloom:|:carnivine::weepinbell:
Thunder Wave
:abra::chimecho::eelektrik::girafarig::granbull::hypno::lopunny::luxray::octillery::plusle::stantler:|:chinchou::illumise::kecleon::porygon::togetic:
Discharge
:eelektrik::luxray:|:chinchou::porygon:
Poison
Toxic (typical users)
:bellossom::chimecho::corsola::dewgong::dunsparce::hypno::lickitung::luxray::magmar::marshtomp::palpitoad::phione::pupitar::seaking::shelmet::swalot::vullaby::wailord:|:duskull::grotle::kecleon::illumise::lileep::magcargo::pineco::porygon::sandshrew:
Poison Jab / Gunk Shot / Sludge Bomb
:budew::gastly::drilbur::gloom::seviper::swalot:|:beedrill::venipede::weepinbell:
Misc. Status
Leech Seed
:bellossom::gloom:|:carnivine::grotle::grovyle::servine:
Other
:dunsparce:(Serene Grace + Ice Beam), :gastly:(Disable) | :porygon::togetic:(Tri Attack)

Status Absorbers
Magic Guard
:abra:|:solosis:
Natural Cure
:budew:
Shed Skin
:pupitar::seviper:
 
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