BW usage stats

[Edualc]

First of all, thanks a lot for the new usage statistics, but honestly, I'm a little disappointed.

If you take a look at the usage stats on the Pokémon Online website, and just after you see our stats, aren't you disappointed too? Our stats lack content and ergonomics. I believe you'll add more detailed statistics soon, like the attack usage statistics per Pokémon like before, but still, we can do so much better than that.

I don't really know exactly how it works on your server, but I'm pretty sure thats on the sources of PO server, their is a parser for the usage stats. I've tested it with the raw files we can download on the PO website, and it's really (and I mean REALLY) useful. Why can't you use it? Is their a matter of compatibility or something? If we can use it, we can generate detailed usage statistics with a great presentation in a matter of seconds... And if we modify some templates files, we can personalize the output, and even generate sql queries to create a database for example.

So, if you could use it and make better stats, it would be amazing!

Also, I'll be very happy (and many other people too, I'm sure) if you upload the raw files. Because they also can be really useful for advanced users who wants to take a look more in deep in the stats. Really, those files represent the thing I want the most since their's a Smogon server on PO... and I'm sure that with those files, some members will do the work for you! XD

I hope you'll do something amazing, cheers!
(And if you are to busy to work on it, maybe I could help. Think about it.)

PS: I don't know, maybe my English is not very good, but it's not my mother tongue... so, I'm sorry for the "engrish"! ^^'

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Thanks for being a dick about this, I really appreciate it. It's not like I spent a lot of time getting just that prepared for people, and it's also not like I don't have better things to do with my life than program usage stats for a Pokemon website. I'm sorry that my work is a disappointment.

Ignoring the blatant disrespect, there are problems with those usage stats on the PO website. A lot of users were clamoring for weighted stats here on Smogon, and that wouldn't be possible if we used the stats in that plug-in. In order to remedy the possibility of weighted stats and to be able to collect them at all, I had to program my own into the server. Following that, the usage stats don't distinguish between rated and unrated battles in any notable way. We're not basing our tiers on unrated battles, so I had to program that distinction in as well. Note that yes, they have "Rated" in a blurb on the side of the PO pages, but at the time of my taking over the SU server that didn't exist and as of right now in the downloaded server binaries, that doesn't exist. Furthermore, the output files from the plug-in stats are abstracted in ways that there are only a few possible manners in which you can get things from them that the PO website doesn't have. For instance, it displays every single conceivable set that the Pokemon has ever run, and I don't think that's useful. The way DougJustDoug used to do advanced stats, now that was useful. Even worse than that, is that we cannot format out the eventual teammate statistics from the stats generated using that plug-in, because we have no access to the raw data (it's all encrypted). I'd like to be able to eventually do teammate statistics, so it required I use my own usage stats. All of these things come together to explain why I did things this different way. I want more control over the data than that plug-in of PO's allowed, and so it is only natural that I handle everything myself.

 

[Edualc]

I'm sad to see that I was hurtful. That was not what I wanted.
Moreover, as I said, I did not know how it really works on your server, and I didn't know about the PO parser drawbacks. As I also said, thanks for your work.

Ignoring the blatant susceptibility (no offense, just kidding), thanks for what you've done, hope you'll improve it. Student in the information technology field, I know that what you're working on is not an easy task, and if you want some help some day, I'll be glad to help, but I suppose you'll not have this need.

Good continuation.

 

[Weby]

Okay, Edualc did not ask the right way what he wants.

We understand that your "supremacy" requires you to have the best programs/plugins/stuff in the pokeworld. It's okay, that's your problem.

But for us, newcomers of the pokeweb, the RAW stats that PO's official plugin exits is sufficient, and necessary.

We are rebuilding a french Pokemon Strategy guide, with all the actual battle tendances of the web, and use the raw files (actually taken from PO's server) to expand the actual stats our way, to use them further in some web-apps we are creating.

This website is already the french reference in strategy, but now we're rebuilding it entirely to rely to a whole new concept. Edualc worked hell hard with those stats to get something correct and usable.

All we ask you is to upload, monthly or weekly, the ""official"" raw stats file in top of your favorite stats... I'm sure many "advanced" users will be glad to be able to download those stats...

Also, you are, as Edualc said, a reference in Pokemon in all the world, success responds to responsabilities. Show us you are the leaders, we will follow you.

PS : No, I'm not angry, I just dont know how to write "smoothly", sorry for that ^^"
PS2: Sorry, I see I have no presentation topic, but I joined may2010, did not remember if I did it before or not...

 

[Rising_Dusk]

If you need the stats that PO provides, then use PO's stats. You begging and pleading here will not prevent me from prioritizing my RL over Smogon, and will not speed up the process to get advanced stats going.

I have reservations about posting the raw stats files, but I will talk to some admins and see what they think.

 

[DougJustDoug]

If Edualc and Weby are trying to be nice or inoffensive, I'm not seeing it. Both of you sound like a pair of whiny douchebags with a sense of entitlement to a bunch of free work from Smogon volunteers.

And yes, I intended that to be offensive. I'm not going to hide behind some "no offense" prefacing comment or whatever it is you are trying to pull off here.

The bottom line is that all the work associated with administering the SU server, collecting stats, and publishing them is done COMPLETELY on a volunteer basis. And right now, most of that heavy lifting is being done by Rising Dusk. So the only acceptable response to the stats results posted by Rising Dusk is -- "Thank you." Not, "I'm disappointed" or "I want more" or "I expect raw data. Post it, dammit. It's easy."

No, you say -- "Thank you, Rising Dusk, for taking time out of your real life to collect stats for all of us that play pokemon on your server. And also thank you for all the effort you put into administering that server in your limited free time, and ask us to pay nothing for the privilege of playing on it whenever we want. Thank you so much."

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Or, you could just shut the fuck up and say nothing. That works too. It certainly is better than the ungrateful entitlement requests I see posted here.

Yes, I understand that Coyotte, et al wrote PO and the stats plugin. I very much appreciate that work, and I appreciate even more that they have made their work open source for everyone to use. My response to Coyotte and his team is nothing but, "Thank you very much for your extraordinary volunteer work, and your contribution to the competitive pokemon world."

See, that's what you say to people that do something nice for you, and they do it for free. I guess you guys missed that part of Common Decency 101.

Just because the code was written by others, does not mean there is no work required for handling stats. There is a LOT of work associated with collecting and managing all aspects of a server with high traffic volume. I really don't think I need to expand on my intimate background with this kind of work. If you think it should be easy to do this stuff, and you want more than Smogon is giving -- then go start your own server, and publish your own damn stats. Don't quote me some non-existent "obligation" that Smogon volunteers need to meet, because you think we should spoon-feed detailed stats to the world.

 

[iDunno]

In all honesty, I don't see how they were trying to be offensive. I just think they didn't know how to ask. That, and they possibly didn't realize that Smogon is a volunteer based website and they are under the impression that badged members like R_D are on some kind of payroll and are obligated keep the site up to standard or something.

This brings me to a suggestion that I would post a thread for, but cannot due to some...certain circumstances (see custom title): I think it would be a good idea to force new members to read a typed document that specifies what the site is about, what the limitations of the staff members are, what kind of suggestions are frowned upon, what kind of suggestions are not frowned upon, how they can contribute, to lurk for a while before they start posting, etc. An automatic introductory PM could probably fit all of this criteria. I know that not many people would read it, but it could allow moderators to be less lenient in their infractions of these types of posts, since, assuming they had read the intro message like they were supposed to, they would be informed enough not to make the mistake.

However, I do agree that those posts (particularly Weby's) did sound a bit entitled, regardless of their ignorance.

 

[Weby]

Actually, dougjustdoug, I DO host a server on my own machines.

I'm PO's official server's host......


Thank you iDunno for your patience, and for having understanded us.



I just want to say that we could get rid of your raw files, but that wouldn't be cool. We use PO's ones, but if we ask yours, its, as I said, because YOU are the references in Pokemon...

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Then, quite honestly, it sounds like you have no need for our stats because you have a plethora of your own. Really, I don't know what you hope to achieve here. You're asking me to spend more time on the coding? You want me to drop everything else I do on Smogon and focus on this? What is it you actually want?

We use PO's ones, but if we ask yours, its, as I said, because YOU are the references in Pokemon...

Our server's statistics are, quite frankly, not going to be much different from those of any other server bar the different banlists. If all you want is the data, then PO's server statistics will suffice for whatever application you could possibly have in mind.

 

[Weby]

Ok, no problem, we gonna use PO server's rawfiles.

It's fun to see that you auto-congrat yourself that hard, I did not expect that of you. And I'm talking about you, personnaly, not Smogon...

We apologize for suggesting a feature in the... Oh wait, "suggestion" box, and gonna continue our work without your datas.

Also, if some day you have "time" between two of your interesting RL facts to reactivate the default plugin, and upload raw files on the site, we will be pleased to thank you very much for your effort.

Thank you for responding us with all that attention, but I hope for you that you'll not respond to any other poeple same manner as for us. We went explaining, okkay maybe not the good way, our waiting and disappointments, and we are treated like shit... Not cool.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

No, I think you misunderstand. It's okay to want more, that's fine, but do it in a way that is respectful of the people you're asking it from. Ask for it in a way that doesn't scream "What, that's it?" to the people you're asking it from. A lot of people have approached me and asked me very nicely to add a few things to stats next time around; that's awesome, and I'll probably do what they ask when I have the time to whip it up. But you. You need to stop for a minute and actually think before you smash that Reply button with garbled text and incoherent derision in your post. Acting unnecessarily sarcastic, acting like we owe you something or that you're entitled anything, mocking my claim that I do all of this in my free time and not for my own benefit, and then rounding it out by acting like we're trolling you or something is beyond disrespectful. If you can't grasp that, or don't care, then you cannot hold onto some hope that we will do what you ask, let alone treat you how you so righteously claim you should be treated.

For instance, leading your first bloody post in the thread with—

We understand that your "supremacy" requires you to have the best programs/plugins/stuff in the pokeworld. It's okay, that's your problem.

The fuck is with this Smogon mockery? If you have a problem with us, good for you, but the fact that you parade in here like the fact that you run PO's server means fuck-all and then ridicule Smogon like that is absurd. That you have the audacity to whore Smogon like that and simultaneously the naivety to turn around and expect that we will help you is beyond me. To hell with you and all that you want from me or this website.