Metagame BW VGC 2011-2013

[oopsgtg]

This thread is dedicated to the Generation 5 VGC formats, namely VGC 2011, VGC 2012 and VGC 2013.

Battle Rules

• Double Battles
• Level 50 (or under)
• Species Clause, Item Clause
• Soul Dew item is banned
• Moves Dark Void and Sky Drop are banned
• Bring 6 Choose 4, Best of 3

Official Rules from 2011, 2012, 2013

Pokemon Restrictions

• 2011: Unova Pokedex only (Pokedex #494-#649): Victini, Tornadus-Therian, Thundurus-Therian, Reshiram, Zekrom, Landorus-Therian, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta and Genesect are not eligible
• 2012: Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys, Chatot, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Tornadus-Therian, Thundurus-Therian, Reshiram, Zekrom, Landorus-Therian, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta and Genesect are not eligible
• 2013: Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys, Chatot, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta and Genesect are not eligible

Notable Generation V Mechanics

• Steel resists Ghost and Dark
• Grass types are affected by powders, Electric types can be paralyzed
• Turn order is static, does not change with speed changes (ie not Dynamic speed)
• Protect has a ½ then ¼, ⅛ etc chance of working in succession
• Wide Guard and Quick Guard fail when used in succession (like Protect/Detect)
• Critical Hits do 2x Damage and occur 1/16 times
• Sleep turns reset on switch out
• Paralysis reduces speed by 3/4
• Sound moves do not bypass substitute
• Fake Out has equal priority (+3) to Follow Me
• Weather summoned by Abilities is permanent
• Oblivious, Own Tempo and Scrappy do not grant immunity to Intimidate
• Shadow Tag traps Ghost types
• Various moves have different BP
  • Hydro Pump, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder and Hurricane have 120, not 110, BP
  • Draco Meteor, Overheat and Leaf Storm, have 140, not 130, BP
  • Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Muddy Water have 95, not 90, BP
  • Dark Void has 80%, not 50%, Accuracy and can be sketched by Smeargle
  • Hidden Power has a maximum of 70, not 60, BP
  • Knock Off has 20, not 65, BP
  • Heat Wave has 100, not 95, BP
  • Dragon Pulse has 90, not 85, BP
  • Aura Sphere has 90, not 80 BP
  • Energy Ball has 80, not 90, BP
  • Meteor Mash has 100 BP and 85% Accuracy, not 90 BP and 90% Accuracy
  • Will-O-Wisp has 75%, not 85%, Accuracy

Differences between VGC 2012 and VGC 2013

VGC 2012 and 2013 are both National dex formats. However, many hidden abilities and move tutor exclusive moves are not legal in VGC 2012, as well as the Therian formes of Tornadus, Thundurus and Landorus.

List of unavailable Hidden Abilities in VGC 2012

Accelgor, Aipom, Alomomola, Ambipom, Amoonguss, Arbok, Audino, Axew, Basculin, Beartic, Beautifly, Beedrill, Beheeyem, Bisharp, Blitzle, Boldore, Bouffalant, Braviary, Breloom, Budew, Carracosta, Chimchar, Cinccino, Combee, Conkeldurr, Cottonee, Crustle, Cubchoo, Deerling, Dialga, Ditto, Drilbur, Druddigon, Ducklett, Duosion, Durant, Dustox, Dwebble, Ekans, Elgyem, Emolga, Empoleon, Escavalier, Excadrill, Foongus, Forretress, Fraxure, Frillish, Galvantula, Garbodor, Gigalith, Giratina, Golett, Golurk, Gothitelle, Gothorita, Grimer, Grotle, Gulpin, Gurdurr, Haxorus, Heatmor, Heracross, Herdier, Hooh, Infernape, Jellicent, Joltik, Karrablast, Klang, Klinklang, Kricketot, Kricketune, Krokorok, Krookodile, Landorus, Leavanny, Liepard, Lilligant, Lillipup, Lugia, Mandibuzz, Maractus, Mienfoo, Mienshao, Minccino, Monferno, Muk, Nincada, Ninjask, Nuzleaf, Palkia, Palpitoad, Panpour, Pansage, Pansear, Paras, Parasect, Patrat, Pawniard, Petilil, Pidove, Pineco, Pinsir, Piplup, Prinplup, Purrloin, Reuniclus, Roggenrola, Roselia, Roserade, Sandile, Sawk, Sawsbuck, Scolipede, Scrafty, Scraggy, Seedot, Seismitoad, Seviper, Sewaddle, Shelmet, Shiftry, Shroomish, Sigilyph, Simipour, Simisage, Simisear, Snorlax, Solosis, Stoutland, Stunfisk, Swadloon, Swalot, Swanna, Swoobat, Throh, Thundurus, Timburr, Tirtouga, Tornadus, Torterra, Tranquill, Trubbish, Turtwig, Tympole, Unfezant, Vanillish, Vanillite, Vanilluxe, Venipede, Venomoth, Venonat, Vespiquen, Vullaby, Watchog, Weedle, Whimsicott, Whirlipede, Woobat, Wurmple, Zangoose and Zebstrika.
Additionally Hidden Ability; Articuno, Bayleef, Chandelure, Chikorita, Croconaw, Cyndaquil, Dewott, Emboar, Entei, Feraligatr, Gothita, Heatran, Klink, Lampent, Larvesta, Litwick, Meganium, Moltres, Oshawott, Pignite, Quilava, Raikou, Regice, Regirock, Registeel, Rufflet, Samurott, Serperior, Servine, Snivy, Suicune, Tepig, Totodile, Typhlosion, Volcarona and Zapdos are unavailable in both 2012 and 2013.

Speed Tiers

​

VGC 2013 Speed Tiers

Speed​	Sprite​	Pokemon​	Base Speed​	EVs/Nature​	IVs​	Modifier​
304​	​	Volcarona/Zapdos/Staraptor/Salamence​	100​	252S​	31​	+2​
300​	​	Kingdra​	85​	252S+​	31​	+2​
280​	​	Excadrill​	88​	252S​	31​	+2​
274​	​	Kingdra​	85​	252S​	31​	+2​
244​	​	Ludicolo​	70​	252S​	31​	+2​
228​	​	Volcarona/Zapdos/Staraptor/Salamence​	100​	252S​	31​	+1​
214​	​	Landorus-Therian​	91​	252S​	31​	+1​
201​	​	Politoed/Metagross​	70​	252S+​	31​	+1​
199​	​	Gyarados​	81​	252S​	31​	+1​
198​	​	Mamoswine​	80​	252S​	31​	+1​
194​	​	Weavile​	125​	252S+​	31​
186​	​	Tyranitar​	61​	252S+​	31​	+1​
184​	​	Whimsicott​	116​	252S+​	31​
183​	​	Azelf/Raikou​	115​	252S+​	31​
183​	​	Politoed/Metagross​	70​	252S​	31​	+1​
179​	​	Thundurus-Incarnate/Tornadus-Incarnate​	111​	252S+​	31​
178​	​	Latios/Latias/Gengar​	110​	252S+​	31​
176​	​	Terrakion/Infernape​	108​	252S+​	31​
173​	​	Liepard​	106​	252S+​	31​
169​	​	Garchomp​	102​	252S+​	31​
168​	​	Thundurus-Therian/Landorus-Incarnate​	101​	252S+​	31​
167​	​	Volcarona/Zapdos/Staraptor/Salamence​	100​	252S+​	31​
165​	​	Hydreigon​	98​	252S+​	31​
157​	​	Landorus-Therian​	91​	252S+​	31​
152​	​	Volcarona/Zapdos/Staraptor/Salamence​	100​	252S​	31​
150​	​	Kingdra/Suicune/Cresselia/Heracross/Toxicroak​	85​	252S+​	31​
150​	​	Hydreigon​	98​	252S​	31​
146​	​	Gyarados​	81​	252S+​	31​
145​	​	Togekiss/Mamoswine​	80​	252S+​	31​
143​	​	Landorus-Therian​	91​	252S​	31​
141​	​	Heatran​	77​	252S+​	31​
140​	​	Excadrill​	88​	252S​	31​
139​	​	Smeargle​	75​	252S+​	31​
138​	​	Rotom-Appliance​	86​	252S​	31​
137​	​	Kingdra/Suicune/Cresselia/Heracross/Toxicroak​	85​	252S​	31​
134​	​	Metagross/Breloom/Bisharp​	70​	252S+​	31​
133​	​	Gyarados​	81​	252S​	31​
132​	​	Togekiss/Mamoswine​	80​	252S​	31​
131​	​	Thundurus-Incarnate​	111​	0S​	31​
129​	​	Heatran​	77​	252S​	31​
123​	​	Jellicent/Abomasnow​	60​	252S+​	31​
122​	​	Metagross/Breloom/Ludicolo​	70​	252S​	31​
119​	​	Thundurus-Incarnate/Tornadus-Incarnate​	111​	252S+​	31​	-1​
118​	​	Latios/Latias/Gengar​	110​	252S+​	31​	-1​
110​	​	Volcarona/Zapdos/Staraptor/Salamence​	100​	252S+​	31​	-1​
106​	​	Rotom-Appliance​	85​	0S​	31​
105​	​	Suicune/Cresselia/Heracross/Kingdra​	85​	0S​	31​
97​	​	Heatran​	77​	0S​	31​
90​	​	Metagross/Politoed/Hitmontop​	70​	0S​	31​
85​	​	Scizor/Gothitelle​	65​	0S​	31​
81​	​	Tyranitar​	61​	0S​	31​
81​	​	Suicune/Cresselia/Heracross/Kingdra​	85​	0S-​	0​
80​	​	Jellicent/Abomasnow​	60​	0S​	31​
78​	​	Scrafty​	58​	0S​	31​
73​	​	Heatran​	77​	0S-​	0​
70​	​	Sableye​	50​	0S​	31​
68​	​	Kingdra​	85​	252S​	31​	+2 Paralyzed​
67​	​	Metagross/Politoed/Hitmontop​	70​	0S-​	0​
65​	​	Conkeldurr/Marowak​	45​	0S​	31​
63​	​	Scizor/Gothitelle​	65​	0S-​	0​
60​	​	Rhyperior/Rhydon​	40​	0S​	31​
59​	​	Gastrodon​	39​	0S​	31​
59​	​	Tyranitar​	61​	0S-​	0​
58​	​	Jellicent/Abomasnow​	60​	0S-​	0​
56​	​	Scrafty​	58​	0S-​	0​
54​	​	Machamp​	55​	0S-​	0​
50​	​	Amoonguss/Snorlax/Reuniclus/Slowking​	30​	0S​	31​
45​	​	Conkeldurr/Marowak​	45​	0S-​	0​
44​	​	Thundurus-Incarnate/Tornadus-Incarnate/Latios/Latias/Gengar/Terrakion/Infernape​	108-111​	252S+​	31​	Paralyzed​
40​	​	Rhyperior/Rhydon​	40​	0S-​	0​
39​	​	Gastrodon​	39​	0S​	31​
34​	​	Bronzong​	33​	0S-​	0​
31​	​	Amoonguss/Snorlax/Reuniclus/Slowking​	30​	0S-​	0​
22​	​	Ferrothorn/Escavalier/Torkoal​	20​	0S-​	0​

​

​

Resources

• Gen 4/5 VGC Discord: https://discord.gg/bvj553yAdJ
• Gen 3 VGC (Orre): https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/orre-colosseum-now-playable.3698894/
• Gen 4 VGC: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dp-vgc-2008-2010.3753816/
• Poké Classic Network DNS for online cartridge battles: 178.62.43.212

 

[oopsgtg]

Sample Teams

VGC 2011

Ray Rizzo’s 2011 World Championship Winning Team
Matteo Gini’s 2011 World Championship Finalist Team
Ruben Puig Lecegui’s World Championship Semi-finalist Team [REPORT]

VGC 2012

Ray Rizzo’s 2012 World Championship Winning Team [REPORT]
Aaron Zheng’s 2012 US Nationals (Senior) Winning Team [REPORT]

VGC 2013

Offense
Arash Omatti's 2013 World Championship Winning Team [REPORT]
Baz Anderson's World Championships 9th Place Team [REPORT]
Balance
ILOVEMYWIFE9 and Radio Free C-Side's 1st Place Ladder Team [REPORT]
Kiwamu Endo's 13th Arena Off Top 16 Team [REPORT]
Trick Room
Aaron Zheng’s World Championship Semi-finalist Team [REPORT]
Sejun Park's World Championship Quarter-finalist Team [REPORT]
Rain
Matteo and Alberto Gini's Italy and Germany Nationals Winning Team
Yuya Tada's 4th Shade Off Winning Team [REPORT]
Basic Perish Trap Rain

 

[oopsgtg]

Viability Rankings

VGC 2011

VGC 2011

S
Thundurus
Amoonguss
A
Tornadus
Terrakion
Conkeldurr
Hydreigon
Scrafty
Krookodile
Gothitelle
Jellicent
Escavalier
B
Landorus
Volcarona
Haxorus
Whimsicott
Cofagrigus
Zebstrika
C
Eelektross
Reuniclus
Emboar
Samurott
Virizion
Chandelure
Darmanitan
Stoutland

VGC 2012

WIP

VGC 2013

VGC 2013

S
Thundurus
Landorus-Therian
Cresselia
Amoonguss
Metagross
Latios
Tyranitar
A
Heatran
Politoed
Conkeldurr
Tornadus
Rotom-Wash
Jellicent
Volcarona
B
Thundurus-Therian
Kingdra
Scizor
Hydreigon
Breloom
Scrafty
Suicune
Hitmontop
Abomasnow
Gothitelle
Terrakion
Mamoswine
Ferrothorn
Excadrill
Gastrodon
Garchomp
C
Zapdos
Togekiss
Bisharp
Latias
Landorus
Liepard
Magmar
Rhyperior
Ludicolo
Rotom-Heat
Rhydon
Infernape
Gyarados
Salamence
Escavalier
Raikou
Bronzong
Machamp
Marowak
Chandelure
Ninetales
D
Whimsicott
Rotom-Mow
Weavile
Heracross
Arcanine
Sableye
Snorlax
Milotic
Dragonite
Raichu
Chansey
Accelgor

 

[Monai]

Radio Free C-Side asked me to do a teamdump, so here it is:

Week 1 Smudge

Week 1 Smudge:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2432612199-ulhdf7biidieqanpwen3ewdc3ckmb8fpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2432615975-3xmcvtot48csx10kms3nanp111l22ixpw

I felt pretty confident that Amoonguss and Cresselia were probably the strongest Pokemon in the format, so what better start to the tournament than basically CHALK? Relatively standard spreads across the board with an offensive ThundyI. I focused the build pretty heavily around what Fire Gem Heatran could do when supported by Cress and Amoonguss, and I thought it delivered in a relatively clean set.

Week 2 Braverius

Week 2 Braverius:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2436998317?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2437001698?p2

Going against Zach/Braverius, we felt that we would want a slightly offbeat approach considering how much more experienced he would be in the format. I settled on a rain trick room hybrid with Jellicent initally, but went with Escavalier thanks to its ability to block Spore with Overcoat. Unbeknownst to myself testing and my opponent in the game, it was actually bugged to have the gen 6 effect rather than it functioning that way intentionally, which certainly contributed to my win. Knowing that now, I'd possibly layer on more Amoonguss hate, but I still thought this was a cool team with different modes of play.

Week 3 EmbCPT

Week 3 EmbCPT:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2460515637-4voo69aqtbtvxij2o9vrvdre1buvqytpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2460520754-oc08rvh7gkfgxnexmbm5hc3jh5otso5pw



Week 3 I was matched into a world champion for some reason which was at least a cool experience. My friend Peng suggested that Excadrill could have been underrated in its day, so I went with a Sand build focused around supporting it. Tornadus is a strong partner alongside it thanks to being a flying intimidate deterrent, and I appreciated having Latios as a fellow levitating attacker to make clicking EQ even more feasible. However, I got gapped.

Week 4 Human

Week 4 Human:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2446426009
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2446429543
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2446432403

My idea going into this week was trying to make a more dedicated OTR work, but it simply wasn't good, so I just scrapped it and went with a team I knew was solid. Swagger and Twave did their things to me, which is always frustrating, but WP to him regardless. We discussed the meta afterwards, and he was super helpful tossing some ideas and feedback for the following weeks, so big thanks to him.

Week 5 Infinity Cypher

Week 5 Infinity Cypher:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2451052727-d4p45pg4scr30ge7ky7j4dw6q2j172xpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2451055593-5qp0j5tymnbd3ecfjhqkjw96miajh6hpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2451057571-1bb8na94m5t50cy7rw3r4xx4oia7c30pw

Following Thunder Wave shenanigans, I wanted to realize my previous week's idea of OTR, and Rhyperior would be a way better Trick Room abuser with spread EQ and a really potent pairing with Tornadus when I wanted to drop Trick Room in situations such as Amoong ThundyI. I was given advice that I should seek out a nuclear bomb of a trick room abuser alongside Rhyp, which Water Gem Jelli would fulfill well enough. It could be Lum Cress or Scrafty to help the Amoonguss mu, and I even considered Psychic Gem Psyshock Cress (Foreshadowing), but decided it was probably fine. In the end, I managed to get the win when i realized Ambipom was highkey a threat that required TR to handle.

Semis EmbCPT

Semis EmbCPT:


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2455846898
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2455849841

Once again playing EmbCPT, I wanted to make use of Metagross and the Cresselia idea from last week more. I found LandoI to be an interesting partner that I maintain was pretty cool alongside it, with a fully offensive Cress which could be a threat in its own right and set up the midspeed Scrafty/Meta/Mag. I think the original incarnation of the team was pretty good, but I didn't think through a suggestion and changed it to Mag before the game for a somewhat decent rain matchup. This was a mistake though, as Meta was very important in order to hold off Ttar and provide a physical presence. Regardless, I don't think my play was up to snuff either, and I got cleaned out in 2, but I stand by the team as being at least pretty decent.

Finals Infinite Cypher

Finals Infinite Cypher:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2460515637-4voo69aqtbtvxij2o9vrvdre1buvqytpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2460520754-oc08rvh7gkfgxnexmbm5hc3jh5otso5pw

My final match would be vs Infinity Cypher again. Hydreigon was a Pokemon I thought was really good, but hadn't found an opportunity to use yet, so I sought out to use it this week. Kunal relayed the idea of Scarf Meta alongside Cress with the Hydreigon which formed a pretty strong core, and I rounded it out with the innovative Amoonguss and Landot. I wanted the last slot to resist Water but also really nail ThundyI, so Aboma formed a pretty cool Trick Room mode alongside a min speed Amoong. I definitely let the squad and my team down with my abysmal performance though.

Closing Thoughts

I found VGC 2013 a really cool meta overall. There are definitely some occasionally frustrating mechanics such as the prevalence of Swagger and the absurdity of Amoonguss, but I didn't find it unreasonably uncompetitive and found ways to work around it in the builder. I always appreciate trying new metagames, especially for BW, so I was glad I had the opportunity to play it here, as well as BW DOU in DPL. Despite that though, I felt like my singles skill really didn't translate to BW doubles like I hoped, and it led to some really disappointing matches for my captains, which I apologize for. I will continue to play doubles, as I really enjoyed a lot of the metas I've played so far, but in a more individual role, as I was not satisfied with my performance and how it affected the Cratermakers and Charjabugs in the most important weeks. Despite that, thank you for drafting me Zee, Tyo, Val, and Epimetheus, was fun being on the teams and I hope to get good enough at doubles to feel confident enough to sign up again.

 

[Kenan]

Unc might not still have it??? Only played twice but had a lot of fun against two good friends. Thanks again zee for drafting me.

Rain Vs Jun

https://pokepast.es/c62ae76198e2b5c1

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2434124799
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2434128697
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2434132865

My wife (have I told you I have a wife and I love her?) went in to labor at the beginning of the week. Jun and I originally were going to play a set with only Pokemon with a BST >500 with a few bans, but I scraped the fun idea and pushed for us to just play a boring normal game of 2013 so that we could at least play one another. I've been piloting this style of rain team since 2012 (Terrakion/Lando-t are interchangeable, as is Metagross/Scizor) and am very comfortable with it.

Unfortunately, Jun sent the most fucked up counterteam imaginable, with Gastrodon, Lum Berry Ferrothorn, and Sunny Day Cress, which rendered the rain mode entirely unusable and forced me to bring Lando-T into Ice Beam Gastrodon & Cress and Tornadus. Despite that, I was able to take it to a game 3 where luck was not on my side. GGs as always my friend.

Smeargle Vs. Human

https://pokepast.es/601a790adfe12b23

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2451430096
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2451431896
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5vgc2013-2451434328

Both our teams had clutched playoffs by this point and our match didn't matter, so I elected to run a bad team that I think has a legitimately workable foundation. Because I was playing on the Smeargles, I wanted to try and make our mascot work, and I thought it could be an interesting setup Pokemon on a hyper offense team. Smeargle is 5 speed points faster than Breloom, letting it get the jump on things like Kingdra under Tailwind and max speed sub Heatran. I made a combination TR + TW team which enabled an Eruption Heatran under both types of speed control. The team is all in on getting team preview and the t1 right, and if you get even a little bit of offensive momentum, it can steamroll players. Fun team, really low floor, just a high enough ceiling to be dangerous.

I was able to get the team preview and t1 call right in both games 1 and 2, but a 1-turn sleep helped Enosh win g1. His Ttar and my Lanturn were speedtied which let to a hilarious final turn in g2 sending us to a game 3 where Enosh had at that point figured out the right t1 and led to an uncompetitive conclusion to an otherwise nailbitingly close and fun set. I've been friends with Enosh since 2011 and if I'm not mistaken this is the first time we've played each other in a competitive setting.

2013 rules. Y'all should try it sometime, like the ongoing RoA ladder perhaps. There's several viable solutions to the "problematic" mechanics and Pokemon. The meta remains rather diverse with a lot of room for unique Pokemon and playstyles.

 

[MosquitoVGC]

With the 2nd Ruins of Alph VGC 2013 ladder finished, let's look at the results:

January 2025 Ladder Results (VGC 2013)
April 2025 Ladder Results (VGC 2011)

October 2025 Ladder Results (VGC 2013)
https://pokemonshowdown.com/ladder/gen5vgc2013

Note that ladder ratings carried over from January. Most players created new accounts for this month. A few accounts were reused from January. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell how many games were played for this month only for an old account. Let's be greatful not many people played a small number of games "just" to keep their old accounts "active".
The official ranking is listed without parentheses, with the October-only ranking in (parentheses)

Ladder Top "40"

Active
(1) EmbCPT
1 (1)
(2) WhatARandomName
6 (2)
(3, 7, 14) MosquitoVGC
14 (3)
20 (7)
30 (14)
(4, 5, 20) Jaden_Copeland
16 (4)
17 (5)
40 (20)
(6, 9, 12) oopsgtg
19 (6)
23 (9)
28 (12)
(8, 11, 17) mtdtt / egrwg / fguhk
22 (8)
25 (11)

34 (17)
(10) Zubola

24 (10)
(13, 15, 16) UsaUsaBallonVGC
29 (13)
31 (15)
33 (16)
(18) Radio Free C-Side
35 (18)
(19) averageatbest
39 (19)


Inactive
2: Radio Free C-Side
3, 5, 7, 8: contra92
4, 9: Jaden_Copeland
10, 18: Mosquito
11: Prismatic Evo
12, 21: Lucien Lachance
13: zubola
15: nerd of now
26: eewww
27: I Am Rookie
32: thomas iron train
37: gengargoons1
38: bidoofutopia
39: gnezze

 

[oopsgtg]

The Smogon VGC Oldgens VGC 2013 Circuit Tournament recently concluded. I finished in 1st place, in this post I will share the teams I used in the tournament and my thoughts on the VGC 2013 metagame.

To begin, here are the teams I used in the tournament:

R1 vs 911wasfake2 (yes that is their username)
free win
R2 vs Shemages
free win
R4 vs Sibwind

R6 vs MichaelDerBeste2

Winner’s Semifinals vs Kenan

Winner’s Finals vs VolcaronaVGC

Grand Finals vs VolcaronaVGC

Grand Finals Bracket Reset vs VolcaronaVGC


In my run, I predominantly relied on one team: the balance team of Cresselia/Metagross/Tyranitar/Suicune/Landorus-T/Thundurus-T built by alcana post-Worlds 2013 for a Japanese offline tournament. I did not go into the tournament planning to use this team every round but it has been very trendy among the VGC 2013 community for over a year now, with it being very popular both on the VGC 2013 spotlight ladders and other recent tournaments.

My philosophy when selecting teams for this tournament was primarily to use a team that gave me the tools to outplay my opponent, and in particular was resilient against high variance ‘hax’ strategies like Thundurus-I using Thunder Wave and Swagger. This logic was what consistently brought me to alcana because I really value the strength and versatility the team offers whilst it can simultaneously boast a very solid match-up against Thundurus-I due to having multiple Electric immunes. Additionally, Tyranitar and Metagross don’t fear Paralysis that much and will happily trade a Thunder Wave to OHKO even a bulky Thund-I.

In the Winner’s Semifinals I faced Kenan, who I know well and who was also using alcana’s team. I felt that a mirror match-up would be very challenging and so I tried to find a team that was both in my view fundamentally sound and had a positive match-up against alcana. My thought process was effectively that the Rain sweepers Kingdra and Thund-T when positioned well can sweep through the balance core of alcana, so the core of Politoed/Kingdra/Thundurus-T with Landorus-T/Gothitelle to make positioning easier as well as enabling an alternative Perish Trap win condition was a good choice. Ferrothorn rounds out the team to set up Curse and sweep in favourable match-ups, it may be brought against alcana but it is not the primary mode.

I should acknowledge I got lucky to receive effectively two byes at the start of the tournament due to my opponents either repeatedly missing the scheduled time or not replying to my scheduling attempts, I believe the impact of these is made greater by the tournament structure being Double Elimination rather than Swiss, a change I would love to see in the circuit next year.

I am proud of my run and I would like to thank Dark_Psiana and Jaden_Copeland for their support. Jaden won the VGC 2017 tournament and Dark_Psiana has very consistently made good results so we are all on track to compete in the circuit finals later this year. Even if I didn’t use the most creative teams, I really appreciated the discussion and warm-up games to ensure I knew how to play after forgetting about the tournament for two weeks at a time.

Metagame Analysis

Smogon VGC Oldgens VGC 2013 Circuit Tournament Usage Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Cresselia          |  250 |  58.96% |  50.40% |
| 2    | Landorus-Therian   |  204 |  48.11% |  51.96% |
| 3    | Amoonguss          |  182 |  42.92% |  48.35% |
| 4    | Tyranitar          |  158 |  37.26% |  55.06% |
| 5    | Metagross          |  146 |  34.43% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Thundurus          |  138 |  32.55% |  48.55% |
| 7    | Heatran            |  129 |  30.42% |  50.39% |
| 8    | Conkeldurr         |   97 |  22.88% |  47.42% |
| 9    | Tornadus           |   83 |  19.58% |  43.37% |
| 10   | Volcarona          |   79 |  18.63% |  40.51% |
| 11   | Politoed           |   76 |  17.92% |  52.63% |
| 12   | Rotom-Wash         |   72 |  16.98% |  43.06% |
| 13   | Suicune            |   72 |  16.98% |  55.56% |
| 14   | Scrafty            |   69 |  16.27% |  49.28% |
| 15   | Kingdra            |   68 |  16.04% |  55.88% |
| 16   | Latios             |   66 |  15.57% |  54.55% |
| 17   | Hydreigon          |   60 |  14.15% |  46.67% |
| 18   | Thundurus-Therian  |   59 |  13.92% |  64.41% |
| 19   | Jellicent          |   50 |  11.79% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Hitmontop          |   43 |  10.14% |  41.86% |
| 21   | Scizor             |   30 |   7.08% |  40.00% |
| 22   | Ludicolo           |   28 |   6.60% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Gyarados           |   27 |   6.37% |  55.56% |
| 24   | Abomasnow          |   27 |   6.37% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Mamoswine          |   25 |   5.90% |  64.00% |
| 26   | Landorus           |   25 |   5.90% |  48.00% |
| 27   | Breloom            |   24 |   5.66% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Gothitelle         |   24 |   5.66% |  54.17% |
| 29   | Excadrill          |   22 |   5.19% |  45.45% |
| 30   | Ferrothorn         |   20 |   4.72% |  60.00% |

Thundurus-T has been a stand-out performer as of late. In the past it has been largely overshadowed by Thundurus-I whose Prankster Thunder Wave is the most prevalent and infuriating speed control in the format, however Thundurus-T is uniquely a fast attacker who is itself immune to Thunder Wave due to its Volt Absorb ability which allows it to act as a check to Thund-I. Furthermore, with a phenomenal base 145 Sp. Atk. and above average base 101 Speed (faster than key threats such as Volcarona, Hydreigon and Landorus-T) Thundurus-T threatens the majority of the format for significant damage, its main weaknesses are to faster threats such as Latios, Kingdra and Choice Scarf Tyranitar or Lando-T who can effectively exploit Thundurus-T's subpar defences.

I have been fond of Suicune in VGC 2013 for many years; the defensive typing of Water is excellent in the metagame (despite being weak to the aforementioned Thundurus) and the competition for its place as a defensive Water-type is not particularly fierce, with Rotom-Wash and Jellicent being the main alternatives. Suicune has the comparable advantage of far higher defensive stats and a wide support movepool, or if you need a win condition then Suicune can fit neatly onto many teams as a Calm Mind setup sweeper. Suicune has strong damage mitigation options between Scald to fish for burns or Snarl to shut down Rain teams and other Special attacking threats. On the other hand Suicune can provide Speed control via Tailwind or Icy Wind which makes a support Suicune one of the most effective Rain checks in the format. The main thing to watch out for is enemy Thundurus who is nearly omnipresent in the format.

Rain has always had a major presence in the VGC 2013 meta, however few players experiemented with adding Gothitelle to Rain teams to add a PerishTrap mode in CG. Recently the core of Politoed/Kingdra/Gothitelle/Landorus-T has been very successful, with many variants performing well in tournaments. Gothitelle does not only add the Perish mode, but also synergises well with Rain by trapping and eliminating annoying threats such as Amoonguss, Conkeldurr and Tyranitar (it cannot switch and thus will lose the weather war).

Conkeldurr was among the best performing Pokemon at Worlds 2013, reaching 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in addition to having won Japanese Nationals in 2012 and 2013. Recently however, Conkeldurr has been struggling against the prevalence of Cresselia, Metagross, Latios and Tornadus who can threaten Conkeldurr with powerful Psychic or Flying attacks or Landorus-T, Suicune and Rotom-W that weaken its damage with Intimidate or a burn. Conkeldurr certainly still has many positive traits and in the right matchup can be a very potent threat but the current metagame is not very favourable for it.

 

[Jaden_Copeland]

HOW TO BEAT THE ALCANA 6 2026 METHOD ​

While unfortunately my team was eliminated in VDL (Vintage Doubles League). I personally had a very successful and impressive run managing to go 6-0 over the course of the tournament and 5-0 specifically in VGC 2013 including a win against Jesuuuus Infinity.Cypher volcaronavgc and two wins against Code who was on a team with Mosquito and Oops (Who you know already from this thread). While I will avoid getting too personal about the tournament in this thread there was two key motivators for me. Firstly to win as much as possible because of my terrible VGC 2013 Circuit Tournament result and secondly, Oops telling me to join the tournament but not draft me. If you read my 2017 Circuit Tournament Warstory here you will know why I will not just post all my teams that I used. However in this post I will discuss what I learned about 2013 from this tournament and at the end I will even release the most powerful creation from this tournament because I simply hate the Alcana 6 that much.

So for those who are so uninitiated and too lazy to simply read Oops post right above this; The Alcana 6 is a Japanese post worlds team made by famous Japanese player Alcana and looks like this:

Paste
This team was simply TOO good. The combination of Landorus-T and Thundurus-T made the team naturally Resistant to Thundurus-I y'know the meta warping super threat which terrorized gen 5 & gen 6 VGC. The inclusion of Suicune on this team makes it appear much more modern since Suicune is a Pokemon the Oldgen community has agreed was very underrepresented at the time and is much stronger than advertised. Combine this with Cress to slow down the game, Tyranitar for weather and as this teams dedicated Trick Room counter. Of course a team like this would be good. How could 6/15 of the strongest Pokemon not be good? However what made this team exponentially more potent was the odd Metagross set. Shuca Berry 4 attacks Metagross fixes a lot of the issues that Metagross naturally has which is its weird speed tier, lack of coverage and weakness to Earthquake especially from a Landorus. All of these factors culminated in a team which went 11-1 against other teams in the VGC Classics Circuit Tournament.

For those reasons, I had to kill it.
Round 1 VS Infinity.Cypher

Round 3 VS volcaronavgc

Round 4 VS Jesuuuus

Round 5 VS Code

SEMIFINALS VS Code

As you can probably tell a lot of these teams are not brand new. Mojo Mogo, Terrak Rain nor TopMoth are new archtypes whatsoever and even my Abomasnow team is a team I already had made but tweaked specifically going into this tournament. Nevertheless I can attest that every single one of these teams had a positive matchup into the Alcana 6. In testing (both with and against the Alcana 6) I realized it had some very glaring weaknesses.

Bulky Fire Types:

Bulky Fire Types pose a unique problem for the Alcana 6. When you look at the team you might scoff at this because they have a Landorus, a Tyranitar and a Suicune like how could the Fire matchup be bad? The issue lies with Metagross. Unlike other Metagross sets which run Tect to stall Trick Room or to buy a turn to pivot, or to allow Landorus to Earthquake theirs does not. Which means that the main Fire types Heatran, Volcarona and Magmar all threaten to OHKO before Metagross can attack. Now you could leave Metagross but that creates other issues like making your matchup into Dragons horrific, or bring Tyranitar and make your matchup into Fighting Types bad. Or you can run Occa Berry and magically scarf Landorus becomes a bad matchup. Its just that there is not really a good way for these 6 not to be weak to Fires without sacrificing some other matchup weakness. Bug Gem Overheat Volcarona in particular is really bad because it can chunk any mon on your team for significant damage before you can get a KO due to Volcarona's 100 base speed and good special bulk.

High Damage Fighting Types:

Fighting Types pose a different problem. Most obviously they are good into Tyranitar, however because they have strong physical damage they can also chunk Suicune who is generally the teams main win condition. Each of these three pose different problems, Terrakion outspeeds the entire team and threatens Rock Slide flinches and Substitute. Conkeldurr can delete Suicune with the combo of Hammer Arm + Mach Punch. Lastly Hitmontop has Intimidate for Landorus and can carry Wide Guard to prevent Rock Slide while being able to pin Metagross, Suicune and Cresselia with Fake Out + Attack due to the Alcana 6 only running 3 Protect pokemon and Band Tyranitar variants only run 2. I will note that Scrafty is actually not very good however. This is due to it being weak to Hammer Arm from Metagross, slow and also having poor damage output.

Speedy Dragons:

Speedy Dragons are one of the main punishers of slow teams like the Alcana 6. Latios is the more consistent into it, while Hydreigon is simply a better Pokemon. Latios has the benefit of outspeeding the entire team while being able to launch high damage Draco Meteors. Draco Meteor is surprisingly a good move into the team because the Suicune typically runs Bold since it is Calm Mind set and therefore if it eats a Draco before it can set up Calm Mind it will at best have 30% left and can get cleaned up by any decent attack. Psyshock also can ignore Calm Mind boost and with Life Orb can continue to chunk Suicune reducing the power of Rest. Hydreigon unfortunately does not outspeed Thundurus, but it does carry Fire Blast which with Life Orb can OHKO Metagross being a substitute Fire Type with the added benefit of not being Rock weak.

Pretty much any team with a combo 2/3 of these things will be at least neutral in the matchup but teams with all 3 have lopsided positive matchups. Actually one team I would recommend against an Alcana player is actually Mean's Team I noticed that the team actually had an extremely positive matchup. TopMoth teams are another archetype that has fallen out of the meta, despite the Alcana 6 not having a good gameplan into unless they tech Stone Edge over Rock Slide on Landorus. A team I reluctantly also think should be played more often is Terrakion Rain especially with Scizor. Scizor alone is not very strong into the Alcana Team but with Rain it can negate the quad weakness to HP Fire and threaten the genies which Scizor struggles into.

However The Team I propose is Hydreigon's Winter Wonderland:

Paste
I would explain everything about this team but then it would take forever. The idea behind this team is that you use Abomasnow next to Magmar for free Blizzards and clean up with priority Mach Punch and Bullet Punch late game. It also can turn Hydreigon into a cruise missile with Helping Hand + Dragon Gem Draco Meteor. Jellicent looks important on this team but in reality it is mostly secondary as a way to force HO teams to respect Trick Room. While this team is definitely designed to deal with the Alcana 6 this team is FAR from a matchup fish. As I was testing this it was really difficult to find bad matchups for the team and I ended up only discovering one or two out of dozens of teams. Tepigace actually told me into the Semifinals just to bring this because it was simply the best team.

FINAL TAKEAWAYS:
No, The Alcana team is not "dead" but I will say that the age of it being used by everyone and their brain-eating amoeba is coming to an end. The team has fairly clear weaknesses which rarely got exposed in the past due to a poor understanding of the team, metagame trends and other statistical biases such as it being used mostly by strong players. I also think there were certain novelties of the team which are wearing off once everyone understands how they work, like the Calm Mind Rest Suicune, and the Shuca Berry 4 Attack Metagross or even the Jolly Landorus. Previously these were sets we did not prepare for in the builder or get testing against but now with dozens of matches under my belt against them I understand where those sets lack in comparison to other more "standard" sets. Even for teams with seemingly autoloss matchups, a couple of tweaks and better preparation is enough to compete against this thing due to how milquetoast the strategy is.

Also it is just mind boggling that nobody thought to seriously test this team against the World Champion team. In the past I have claimed that Mean's Team was bad with our current understanding, but even I will say it isn't so bad that I would lock in a team with a meaningfully negative matchup into it. Additionally a lot of the other teams that are good into this follow a similar trend in being "outdated". TopMoth, Korean Liepard, Terrak Rain all feel like teams which had kind of just ran their course but in hindsight especially Terrak Rain & Korean Liepard were underrepresented despite still having an okay matchup spread. This team does however do a great job at exploiting how Thundurus-I centric the format can be at times while even containing really good counters for CHALK style teams in it. Also it is very impressive how Amoongus resistant this team is despite not having a single pokemon which can threaten an OHKO. If nothing else this team is by far the best answer at removing as much rng from the game as possible. Twave is not very useful against this team, Spore is not very good into this team, this team is so bulky that a Rock Slide flinch or a Blizzard freeze is somehow not always game losing. If you are an advanced Balance player, this team is by far the best at forcing slow, neutral gamestates of just about anything that currently exist. For those reasons I struggle to imagine a world where it sees no usage but I also think a team like Mojo Mogo is simply better.

 

[Kenan]

Want to echo what Jaden said that TopMoth in particular has an incredible MU vs Alcana (as seen in my week 1 VDL match vs Monai where I got dumpstered by it when using Alcana). I don't think QD is necessary, and I think a Bug Gem set with Overheat is perhaps ideal. Bug Gem Bug Buzz has odds to OHKO the Cresselia, while Overheat OHKOs the Thund-T, Lando-T, and Metagross. Hitmontop eliminates the non-Chople Ttar, it can Wide Guard to prevent Lando-T from doing anything meaningful to Volc, and a CC + Bug Buzz combines to KO Suicune. Simply put, they're going to 4-0 vanilla Alcana.

Despite that horrific MU, Alcana will remain a staple in the format due to its incredible MU spread and the options it gives an experienced player. The sets, I'm sure, can be adjusted to alleviate the MU without compromising the integrity of the team. I think we all dropped Grass Knot on Thund-T for Taunt, for example, and I know Oops uses Chople instead of Band on Ttar. Once we figure out the right change or two to solve some of its worse MUs we might be back in this thread saying it's busted for the second time in as many years.

 

[MosquitoVGC]

I won the recent Black/White 2 Discord server's VGC 2013 tournament. I wrote a team report for it but too lazy to properly repost onto Smogon. It's on my blog.

https://pokepast.es/3c0c3d6bd82bef3b

Genuinely my team is a worse version of the original Mojo Mogo Casa House and Alcana Personal Conclusion Build. Please use either of them instead of this team. I'm still proud I won the tournament, but the main lesson is "Use Mojo Mogo or Alcana."

I also think Hockhead's core of Ninetales/Cherrim inspired by 3DS VGC formats is worth exploring. I look forward to him revising and improving the team because it's a cool strategy.

 

[MosquitoVGC]

VGC 2013 August 2026 Ladder Results
August 1-September 1, 2026
https://pokemonshowdown.com/ladder/gen5vgc2013

If multiple teams were used on a single account, the team that was most commonly used is shown. If there weren't enough replays to determine a most common team, the most recent team used is shown. The August 2026 ranking is shown by default, and the all-time ranking is in (parentheses).

Ladder Top "80"

Radio Free C-Side
1. Radio Free C-Side (1)
12. whoopsbrb (59)
fc_00252
2. fc_00252 (15)
Kenan
3. Kenan (17)
MosquitoVGC
4. Horrible Morrible (22)
13. RadioFreeSurfSide (60)
puritypoke
5. puritypoke (23)
Zubola
6. bc3ultra (31)
7. Jazz for your Soul (33)
oopsgtg
8. qiknt (35)
9. grotlefan386 (42)
shinykrabby01
10. I love Neco Arc (45)
LOP DF Tarjete
11. Alexia B. (57)
yatagarasu2.0
14. yatagarasu2.0 (62)
test8510
15. test8510 (63)
The_Noodle
16. Thee_Noodle (65)
GojiraFanBoy
17. GojiraFanBoy (70)
Jaden_Copeland
18. Latios is a bum (74)
19. ZekromZeen (77)
IamWolfeyGlick
20. IamWolfeyGlick (78)


Other Notes:
A. Players whose identities (e.g. Twitter, Smogon, Discord, etc.) are known are not italicized. Players with unknown identities are italicized.
B. Only the Top 20 are shown due to lower ladder activity than previous ladder sessions.

January 2025 Ladder Results (VGC 2013)
November 2025 Ladder Results (VGC 2013)
April 2025 Ladder Results (VGC 2011)

 

[oopsgtg]

I organised a VGC 2013 rules tournament this weekend to give people an opportunity to practice VGC 2013 before the VGC Classics League begins. Congratulations to Monai for winning the tournament!

VGC 2013 Live Tournament Standings

Position​	Username​	Swiss​	Team​
1​	Monai​	3 - 1​	​
2​	silvanex​	4 - 0​	​
3​	Kenan​	3 - 1​	​
4​	grayblood​	3 - 1​	​
5​	Dipankar​	2 - 2​	​
6​	Blaze​	2 - 2​	​
7​	justernest​	1 - 3​	​
8​	Lorenzizi​	1 - 3​	​
9​	steaks​	1 - 3​	​
10​	JuustSimo​	0 - 4​	​

Finals
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Metagame Analysis
I will keep the analysis brief this time, but I want to highlight the teams that made it to the top cut.


Monai and Kenan, to my knowledge, independently arrived on the same core of 5 Pokemon. Namely: Thundurus, Hitmontop, Metagross, Latios, and Amoonguss. This core is very similar to that used by Human at the 2013 World Championships (but with Excadrill instead of Metagross) and it has many synergies between the pieces that make it easy to construct flexible and varied gameplans.
It is also interesting that despite the similarity in species, Monai and Kenan's teams differed significantly. Monai used a more supportive Thundurus with Volcarona as the main win condition, while Kenan opted for a fast Nasty Plot Thundurus that is capable of winning games by itself. Both players added the relatively rare Tailwind to Latios, foregoing alternatives like a third Attacking move or Substitute, instead gaining a speed control option that can make Latios useful even after it has spent Draco Meteor.


Perish Rain made an expected appearance in the tournament, piloted to a 2nd place finish by silvanex. Silvanex's team was a unique composition featuring a Beat Up Justified core of Weavile and Cobalion to add an additional mode to the team. Dipankar narrowly missed top cut with a more conventional build of Perish Rain with a Genies + Metagross core.


Lastly, we have HailRoom. Ending his run in the semifinals, grayblood had an unconventional addition of Glaceon to the team used by Sejun Park at the 2013 World Championships. Furthermore the Jellicent used by grayblood was a support variant, as opposed to the offensive Water Spout sets that are often used. Glaceon is perhaps inspired by its use in VGC 2009 hail teams, where it is far more popular and can often rob games with the dangerous Snow Cloak ability in near uncontested Hail.

 

[grayblood]

Furthermore the Jellicent used by grayblood was a support variant, as opposed to the offensive Water Spout sets that are often used. Glaceon is perhaps inspired by its use in VGC 2009 hail teams, where it is far more popular and can often rob games with the dangerous Snow Cloak ability in near uncontested Hail.

In my eons of testing I could not use offensive jelli and feel good about it where jelli is my sole room setter. Maybe if I had a second one I could go more aggro with my jelli but then I'd have to drop the glaceon or suffer eternal hell with one less support mon and get cheese by either something cuz i dont have fake out or something cuz I dont have follow me.


Also Real reason I used glaceon:

130 Sp Atack STAB blizz spam