BW2 Doubles Viability Ranking Thread

[nyttyn]

virizion is c rank for big mclargehuge reasons

first reason being is that close combat scales off a shitty 90 base attack, forces you to invest in attack and run a fighting gem if you want to murder anything and undermines the main reason to use him (his bulk)

seccondly he's weak to really major elements of the metagame (sun teams, psychic types, hail teams, flying types, dragon types)

thirdly giga drain is piss weak and only has any sort of power behind it with a calm mind in play. which you won't have the time to get up or use.

fourthly, no spore as a grass type. huge, huge, huge loss, considering its one of the major reasons to run a grass type.

fithly, focus miss/miss edge. in a longer singles match, you can make up for one or two missed focus blasts uless they were REALLY critical to success. in doubles, that one turn wasted by a miss can very likely be a death sentence.

finally, his major selling points (ground, dark, grass, water, rock, electric resistances) are helpful against exactly three things - sand teams, rain teams, and discharge. zapdos can OHKO with air slash hidden power flying + most discharge users really aren't threatened by virizion, and rain teams have swift swim ice beam fucking everywhere, in addition to kingdra, zapdos, and ludicolio giving no fucks and the rise of toxicroak who completely destroys virizon FiOS, and sand teams can just have tyranitar or excadrll use protect, let their partner kill virizion, and call it a day.

it's really hard to understate how much the meta shifts from VGC to doubles crippled him. he just does nothing against a large number of teams and the teams he does anything against often have members of the team who gives zero fucks. this isn't even getting into how horribly breloom outclasses him.

 

[tofucocoa]

i disagree with the above post, mostly the points about giga drain and sun being a big part of the meta (if it is it really shouldn't be). really the only set you should consider on virizion is @ fighting gem, leaf blade/close combat/protect/filler, and that does an excellent job of supporting, checking rain and sand, and does a lot of damage otherwise, which is a pretty great gig considering it takes up just one slot in your party. just remember that its close combats are just as powerful as hitmontops, which means you're ohkoing relatively bulky stuff like chople ttar, 4hp kingdra and ludicolo. virizion's just really good at tanking hits and stopping whatever you need stopped (it has taunt, safeguard, sunny day, etc), but i do agree it's not all that great on most teams because of its relatively low attacking prowess and lack of priority.

ps i think you guys are overestimating breloom, js

 

[Laga]

Update for this thread with 2 new things.

1) Quality posts now recieve 1 point on the Doubles Leaderboard
this is only for outstanding posts and unless you guys go on some frenzy with great posts, it is likely that only 1 point will be given per week per user. But do go for the gold :]

and

2) New banner :D

Keep discussing guys :)

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Everyone loves shrooms right? Even if they don't you draw em in with rage powder and they can't help but be drawn to it.
Amoongus to A rank pls
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles-37089220
That replay alone shows it's sheer ability to destroy teams (lel)

Shitty jokes aside I do believe that guy should be A rank. When used properly it will destroy teams, the trouble with most users is they bring it in at the wrong time meaning it is easily shut down if it can be brought in on at least one mon that is unnafective against it the partner will always manage to boost/take out or damage a significant threat. Rage powder really is a great move and amoongus really just enough bulk to use it well, it is aided by a resistance to fighting and the fact it takes neutral damage from most spread moves.

Rage powder also creates mind games which means sometimes you can pull off a cheeky spore on an overpredicting opponent which effectively takes a mon out of the game.

Another thing I think is notable about amoongus is effect spore this abillity really does ruse opponents as it can be so frustrating and 9/10 times a frustrated player will play like total trash. It isn't hard to predict fake outs which do very little to the shroom and you can switch it in at little cost and sometimes come out with a slp/brn/par for almost free.

Amoongus is also quite good at stalling out TR with spore and rage powder, it really helps wind down the clock.

likely incoming counter arguments
>no offensive presence
tru but cress has the same issue
>shut down by taunt
eh true I guess but a clever player can play around taunt and bring it in at the right moment.
>KOd by 'x'
don't bring it in on 'x' then :3

Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

preddy sure amoongus does this so yeah A rank pls.

 

[Nollan]

I support Amoonguss to A rank.
While Sleep Clause prevents it from putting entire teams to sleep, it can still take one threat out, while redirecting attacks. In addition, it can be annoying with Substitute/Protect (more so with Substitute), and Giga Drain may not be a extremely powerful attack, but when combined with Amoonguss's relatively high special bulk, it can make rain teams cry. The ability to support its team while giving trouble to Rain and Trick Room, two very popular strategies, makes it a stellar choice for a team. As Blood Totem mentioned, it fits the description for A rank perfectly.

 

[Laga]

It does actually fit A rank pretty well, considering that it can provide free turns, even though it only really is effective at one role = supporting Trick Room with Rage Powder and using Spore once, to then switch out into a potential Trick Room sweeper. Until someone convinces me that it fits in B rank, I am moving it up to A for it's fantastic ability to support and work in Trick Room, which is one of the most effective strategies in doubles.

 

[BlankZero]

Fyi, it works phenomenally outside of TR too, as Rage Powder has such a high Priority Bracket, it allows you to get in a setup move or two on something frailer, like Volcarona, and start a sweep.

 

[Punchshroom]

Amoonguss is a very effective supporter for Trick Room teams: with Rage Powder to redirect Taunt, status and powerful moves that can disrupt/KO the TR setter, Amoonguss can easily get the team going (this also applies to setup sweepers in general). It may be too slow to redirect Fake Out users (something Volcarona can do), but its bulk is good enough to take stronger hits from both ends of the spectrum, unlike Volcarona. Regenerator is a very useful bonus for when you don't need Amoonguss's support for the meantime, which you'll then switch out to usually regain enough health to support again. Of course there is Spore, which incapacitates a threat (but is primarily used to just stop attacks, unlike Breloom who often uses it to prevent Trick Room). Even Grass STAB isn't terrible, as it strikes 3 of the 4 weather inducers super effectively and can make most bulky Rain mons tear their hair out.

Having both Rage Powder and Spore alone are worth consideration for a spot in your team, but Regenerator combined with good all-round bulk means it can often support again and again (screw your Parasect). Amoonguss thrives best in TR, but can still function on other teams as a bulky supporter able to do its job consistently.

 

[Laga]

Fyi, it works phenomenally outside of TR too, as Rage Powder has such a high Priority Bracket, it allows you to get in a setup move or two on something frailer, like Volcarona, and start a sweep.

I am not sure I can agree with this, as I would definately use Togekiss on any team that is not TR as a redirecter (Follow Me). These reasons inlude:

1) (the biggest reason) Hitmontop is probably by far the best Fake Out user, with all the other assets it can provide (Wide Guard, strong CC, Intimidate) and Togekiss has enough speed to redirect it's Fake Outs, something that greatly help things like Volcarona in not dying. (this reason would, btw, also include Scrafty's Fake Out, and really anything with less than base 80 uninvested speed.

2) It has better overall bulk than Amoonguss

248 SpA Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 148-175 (66.96 - 79.18%)
248 SpA Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 118-139 (61.45 - 72.39%)
————————————————————————————————————————————————————
252+ Atk Steel Gem Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Amoonguss: 144-171 (65.15 - 77.37%)
252+ Atk Steel Gem Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 114-135 (59.37 - 70.31%)
(just used random powerful attacks with same type effectiveness)

3) It can actually damage things with Air Slash, which not only hits the powerful Fighting types in the tier, but also comes with a handy flinch rate.

4) Has a wide variety of support moves like Tailwind, Thunder Wave, Swagger (if you are an asshole) and even a reliable recovery move in Roost.

So basically, the only reason you would run Amoonguss over Togekiss on a non-TR team would be it's typing or Spore.

Edit: and yeah, Volcarona as a bulky offensive Rage Powder user because of even more speed and it's sheer power in STAB Heat Wave.

 

[Punchshroom]

So basically, the only reason you would run Amoonguss over Togekiss on a non-TR team would be it's typing or Spore.

And Regenerator, which is actually pretty damn crucial if you want to execute your strategy more than once. However, since Tailwind does not help Amoonguss, it can only really fit into Trick Room teams or Dual Screen teams (but the users have to compensate for Amoonguss's inept offensive ability, though that's not hard). It does help setup sweepers like Gyara or Volc though.

 

[nyttyn]

Please don't mention Regenerator. It is pretty piss worthless in doubles, especially when things are dying so damn fast. There is a reason everyone and their mum runs Effect Spore on Amoonguss instead - you simply will not, almost ever, get the chance to benefit from Regenarator. Even if you DO swap out, that extra 33% isn't going to save Amoonguss 9 times out of 10. Far better to have Effect Spore, at least that does something sometimes.

Amoonguss is a cool mon, but you're really undermining your cause by mentioning Regenrator. Its not long Amoonguss is going to live that long anyway, it has substandard bulk for a defensive mon and a pretty awful typing to boot.

 

[Punchshroom]

Simply put, I would've lost games if I had no way of getting that extra health back to soak more hits when Rage Powdering. Here's how it usually goes:

T1) Amoonguss goes for Rage Powder and tanks thos hits/disruption attacks while its partner does whatever it wants (Trick Room)
T2) After firing off a Spore, Amoonguss often clutters up the battlefield, so I switch it out not only to preserve it but also so that I can attack with 2 pokemon instead of one.
T3) If one of my attackers goes down and TR wears out, I rinse and repeat T1), usually having enough health to soak up all the direct damage aimed at my TR setter even as it goes down.

Also, you are also undermining your own claims the minute you said its typing is awful, since obviously you've looked too hard at its weaknesses that you (probably) failed to cover up, because when something resists Water, Electric, Grass and Fighting all at once it's worth a look. Its bulk is also sufficient in doing its job, you certainly don't look like you have qualms with the 50/95/110 Hitmontop when compared to Amoonguss's 114/70/80 bulk, which can take attacks like Latios's Dragon Gem Draco Meteor or Metagross's Meteor Mash or most neutral attacks in general. It's pretty hard to OHKO Amoonguss without resorting to a Gem or weather boost, which is more than enough time to support its teammate for that crucial turn.

Actually, Regenerator did save me nine times out of ten, because more often than not Regen allowed my previously injured Amoonguss to survive 2 attacks as opposed to one, which can make all the difference in Doubles. You also forget the fact that Regenerator can be activated willingly, while Effect Spore happens by chance, by contact and may not even inflict the right status (regular poison). Really, the fact that you chose the more unreliable ability that may actually clash with one of your main selling points in Spore (not helped by that low speed outside TR) over a clutch ability in Regenerator that perfectly complements a bulky mon such as itself, speaks volumes about how much experience, or lack thereof, you've had with Amoonguss (as well as anyone else who uses ES Amoonguss, just to be fair to you).

Oh yeah, perhaps I should mention that this mushroom is often my 2nd last guy standing (even if he leads off!) due to that very ability you underestimated (not having Regen is why any Amoonguss does not survive long). There till the very end, supporting till its last breath...that's what Regenerator can do for Amoonguss.

 

[BlankZero]

Its not long Amoonguss is going to live that long anyway, it has substandard bulk for a defensive mon and a pretty awful typing to boot.

Amoongus' Typing Weaknesses/Strengths

Weak to: Fire, Ice, Flying, Psychic

Strong to: Electric, Grass (4x), Water, Fighting

Neutralities due to typing: Ground (Grass resists), Bug (Poison resists), Poison (Poison resists)

Overall, not too bad of a typing (as opposed to when Poison was weak to Bug for some reason) for a defensive mon, and has Fighting strong, Electric Strong, Ground neutral, which is important.

Amoongus is definitely A rank for Defensive/Support. Also, it wants Thick Fat so bad :D

 

[tofucocoa]

Please don't mention Regenerator. It is pretty piss worthless in doubles, especially when things are dying so damn fast. There is a reason everyone and their mum runs Effect Spore on Amoonguss instead - you simply will not, almost ever, get the chance to benefit from Regenarator. Even if you DO swap out, that extra 33% isn't going to save Amoonguss 9 times out of 10. Far better to have Effect Spore, at least that does something sometimes.

Amoonguss is a cool mon, but you're really undermining your cause by mentioning Regenrator. Its not long Amoonguss is going to live that long anyway, it has substandard bulk for a defensive mon and a pretty awful typing to boot.

so youre relying on effect spores 30% chance to activate and on top of that, a 20% chance your opponent will be affected with a different status effect, rendering your spore useless? also note the 10% chance of paralysis, which is nice outside of trick room, but generally speaking tr teams don't want their opponents paralyzed.

regenerator isn't something to be relied on, but rather a nice bonus that you can sometimes use to your advantage. basically, you're saying regenerator is trash because it requires a switch. have you ever switched in doubles? if you answered no, then chances are you're not a very good player. just because switching doesn't happen as often doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all.

 

[Laga]

regenerator isn't something to be relied on, but rather a nice bonus that you can sometimes use to your advantage. basically, you're saying regenerator is trash because it requires a switch. have you ever switched in doubles? if you answered no, then chances are you're not a very good player. just because switching doesn't happen as often doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all.

I am going to have to agree with this. Switching out is something that is very potent in doubles, and the reason why you see way more switches in highly competitive play is because it is very hard to switch in a pokemon when you have the pressure of 2 pokemon attacking your team at once. When you get into tournament battles and arranged #doubles irc battles, switching out happens much more often, and Regenerator may just help you a lot in the long run. That said, Togekiss' ability to flinch the opposition 60% of the time rather than 30 because of it's ability is often a better use of an ability than Regenerator.

That said, Amoonguss probably uses the ability Regenerator better than other pokemon, since it can abuse the fact that it is often complete dead weight at turn 2 to switch on out of there to a Trick Room sweeper whilst possibly allowing your team to set up another Trick Room for free.

I still think that Amoonguss has no place on a non Trick Room team with Togekiss usually being the more viable option, and I personally think that Amoonguss fits B rank nicely. Do you guys agree?

 

[Nollan]

Well I guess I'll mention a few things here.
First off, while it is agreeable that Togekiss generally outclasses Amoonguss outside of Trick Room, Amoonguss has a crucial niche in its typing. This gives it Water and Fighting resistances, which can be helpful. I generally like the Water resistance, allowing it to give Rain trouble with Giga Drain (still needs to be careful of Ice Beam). When it comes to this whole Regenerator mania, Regenerator is generally inferior to other abilities (probably not in Amoonguss's case), BUT it can be useful if you build a team to switch around a lot, making Regenerator a decent choice on the bulky teams.
I feel B rank is a bit harsh for Amoonguss, it is stellar on Sand (for Rain), Goodstuff (Yep), and Trick Room, and I think we are underestimating its resistances a bit (if I remember correctly, Togekiss doesn't have anything crucial outside of Ground, and maybe Bug). Also, Amoonguss has a few overlooked options, like Stun Spore, and Sunny Day, which are generally outclassed by the standard set, but have their merits. Besides, Spore alone is a huge niche over Togekiss, no matter what team you have. One last thing about the Sleep Clause is that unless the foe wants another pokemon to be hit by Spore, they have to switch out before the sleeping pokemon faints, and since switching can be risky in Doubles, Spore puts a lot of pressure on the opponent.

PS- I dare someone to run a Trick Room team w/ After You Amoonguss, go on, give it a go ;)

 

[nyttyn]

so youre relying on effect spores 30% chance to activate and on top of that, a 20% chance your opponent will be affected with a different status effect, rendering your spore useless? also note the 10% chance of paralysis, which is nice outside of trick room, but generally speaking tr teams don't want their opponents paralyzed.

regenerator isn't something to be relied on, but rather a nice bonus that you can sometimes use to your advantage. basically, you're saying regenerator is trash because it requires a switch. have you ever switched in doubles? if you answered no, then chances are you're not a very good player. just because switching doesn't happen as often doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all.

Just for the record, I'm saying regenerator is trash because it doesn't really help out Amoongus that much and you shouldn't be trying too hard to keep it alive anyway. If Amoongus is alive all match long, either something has gone horribly wrong, your opponent flat out sucks, or their team just can't handle killing Amoongus (which shouldn't be any team anyway).

 

[Punchshroom]

Just for the record, I'm saying regenerator is trash because it doesn't really help out Amoongus that much and you shouldn't be trying too hard to keep it alive anyway. If Amoongus is alive all match long, either something has gone horribly wrong, your opponent flat out sucks, or their team just can't handle killing Amoongus (which shouldn't be any team anyway).

I don't know how you go about using your Amoonguss, but I don't see how having your 'redirecter', Sand & Rain combater, Fighting resist, Spore user, death fodder that can soak up ~2 hits etc... survive as long as possible (or at least enough to do its job) are not considered reasons to 'try hard to keep Amoonguss alive' (That's a trick question, it's not hard to do so at all with, you know, f**king Regenerator). Mind you, I don't try to keep Amoonguss alive, I just consider it a very useful BONUS to have. While Amoonguss isn't the hardest thing to get rid off, it is one of the hardest to stop from doing its job. Ex: "Huzzah you killed Amoonguss in 1 turn, oh wait the opponent got up TR and is about to steamroll you because you didn't stop that in 1 turn. Now consider that if Amoonguss managed to survive the turn (which isn't hard at all outside of 2 SE moves or 1 really powerful boosted one, which it can Protect from), that scenario can very easily repeat itself. Regenerator is useful for offsetting residual damage like Hail, Sandstorm and Scald burns etc. In reiteration to your final points, yes something has gone horribly wrong for the opponent (Spore), noob opponents (tbh even the noobs aren't so bad to the point where their own spread moves hit themselves), and the team really can't handle Amoonguss (because Regenerator allows it to outlast threats that my teammates can dispose of). Honestly, it baffles me how you insist on believing that it's hax / the opponent's incompetence as opposed to Amoonguss's natural bulk + ability that allows the mushroom to last throughout the battle. Unless your team applies tremendous offensive pressure, Amoonguss is often one of the last things you'll KO.

I would've been fine if you listed why you dislike Regenerator and list Effect Spore's advantages, but all I see are reasons like 'Regen is trash~, Amoonguss isn't really all that bulky enough to use it~, you should let it die~'. I don't know where you got the idea that healing 1/3 of your 114/70/80 bulky support poke while trying to gain offensive momentum is "trash"; or the fact that a pokemon that can turn almost any Electric, Water, and Fighting type into a liability while packing 2 of the most annoying moves in Doubles is worth saccing (say: if just one of my opponent's pokes is ex: a Hitmontop, aka one of the handiest support pokes in Doubles, I'm confident that Amoonguss can f**k my opponent up with Spore/Rage Powder shenanigans). Because that is seriously trippin' balls logic.:confused:
Another example:

A 15% Cress is just about done with its job, but that 10% Amoonguss can still very well come right back to cockblock your Breloom/Conkeldurr/Thundurus(-both)/almost any user of Surf or Hydro Pump/etc...with Rage Powder or Spore.

Then you go and say 'use Effect Spore'. You go and bash Regenerator as much as you did, then go and say that Effect Spore (that isn't even reliable) should be used over it. I just, I can't comprehend. That statement you made that:

There is a reason everyone and their mum runs Effect Spore on Amoonguss instead

is hardly credible, as there are very little benefits to running Effect Spore over Regenerator.
(P.S. Don't go to the usage stats to prove me otherwise, the fact that only ~35% of all Amoonguss run Protect, which is insanely useful for Rage Powder mindgames, shows the ladder is still somewhat inexperienced with Amoonguss's potential. That or they forgot to switch abilities).

While it's true that Regen is not as potent in Doubles, but it's still a good 'why not?' option for your ability, far less situational and luck-based than Effect Spore for starters.

 

[nyttyn]

Trust me, I don't think Amoongus can't do its job. A properly played Amoongus is one of the more annoying bastards because in exchange for zero offensive presence it can really make that first TR or Tailwind seriously easy to get up. And you misunderstand why I'm saying Amoongus should be the first to die - it is supposed to soak up hits and rediret them for team-mates, so swapping it out for a different team-mate so that they have to eat the damage instead for a 33% HP gain on Amoongus...is highly situational, to say the least.


And yeah, while it is ultimately more luck based, Effect Spore will on average likely have a greater effect overall due to always having a chance in any given match. Ultimately they're both really bad abilities in doubles though, so trust me when I say that I think Effect Spore is NOT a good ability either. I suppose we aren't going to agree on this, but I will say I really understand where you're coming from on Regenerator, and I'll likely give it another shot in the future.


ps - please never fuck with bold, italics, underline, and arbitrary color like that again, it makes me want to punch small babies and it adds absolutely nothing to your post aside from making it look like a three year old doodled on it with crayola. please. this has nothing to do with your points, but for the love of god never again.

 

[Punchshroom]

Trust me, I don't think Amoongus can't do its job.

Yeah, not going to buy that, especially given your next post...

A properly played Amoongus is one of the more annoying bastards because in exchange for zero offensive presence it can really make that first TR or Tailwind seriously easy to get up.

Ta-da, Amoonguss's (arguably primary) job pulled off with aplomb. Spore only adds to this annoyance.

And you misunderstand why I'm saying Amoongus should be the first to die - it is supposed to soak up hits and redirect them for team-mates...

Oh gee, I wonder which one of its 2 abilities could possibly help it accomplish that better or with more efficiency.

...so swapping it out for a different team-mate so that they have to eat the damage instead for a 33% HP gain on Amoongus...is highly situational, to say the least.

Pivoting is not unheard of in Doubles, Heatran alone covers all of Amoonguss's weaknesses, while a Water-type and/or Steel-type (Bisharp & Metagross are good options) also make great partners that can back Amoonguss up. Switching out keeps Amoonguss from harm while letting its offensive partners loose, so add the fact that the mushroom heals itself from doing so is really, really nice. Regenerator is also tons less situational than Effect Spore in any case, because you are in control.

And yeah, while it is ultimately more luck based, Effect Spore will on average likely have a greater effect overall due to always having a chance in any given match.

Of all the attacks Amoonguss can draw in, Fighting attacks are pretty much the only (common) moves that even have a chance to trigger Effect Spore, as Amoonguss isn't fast enough to redirect Fake Out. Even if Effect Spore does activate, there's still the chance the foe isn't affected by the favorable status, which can block your Spore and waste your turn/utility.

Ultimately they're both really bad abilities in doubles though, so trust me when I say that I think Effect Spore is NOT a good ability either. I suppose we aren't going to agree on this, but I will say I really understand where you're coming from on Regenerator, and I'll likely give it another shot in the future.

I still wouldn't say Regen is complete trash in Doubles, as the health gain in a 5-8 turn battle can be pretty significant, but this is easily your most encouraging post thus far, so I'm glad we are on the same page somewhat.

ps - please never fuck with bold, italics, underline, and arbitrary color like that again, it makes me want to punch small babies and it adds absolutely nothing to your post aside from making it look like a three year old doodled on it with crayola. please. this has nothing to do with your points, but for the love of god never again.

I'll admit that I wrote so much crap that I myself had difficulty looking for my main points in each paragraph, so I highlighted them to ease the strain from people who do not wish to read a mountain of text. Apparently I forgot that these flashy colors can induce headaches as well, so I'll keep that in mind :P

 

[BlankZero]

I'd like to point out that Sitrus Berry and Regenerator heal for about the same amount overall.

 

[Punchshroom]

'Reusable Sitrus Berries' is very appealing, but Regenerator is sufficient enough that I actually run Black Sludge on my Amoonguss so as to not be pressured by Hail enough to be forced out.

 

[Nollan]

Not to be annoying/stupid or anything, but it honestly seems that rather than discussing the strengths and weaknesses of Amoonguss, we are bickering over the viability of Regenerator in Doubles. Honestly, there are bulky teams that work well and are designed to switch in and out flexibly, and in those, Regenerator can be a considerably viable option. Otherwise, not so much. Also, can we not punch babies, that would be mean ;-;

Anyways, I stand by my last post, arguing Amoonguss's A Rank is deserved through Water and Fighting resistances, as well as the ability to Spore opponents and annoy Trick Room teams (or support them). Honestly, something of its talents (which no other pokemon can replicate entirely) should be A Rank, regardless of whether Regenerator is a good choice on it or not. While it missing out on redirecting Fake Outs and the lot, it can still put things to Sleep WHILE also being capable of redirecting attacks, which nothing else can do reliably (probably something out there with Follow Me + Hypnosis lol). I personally like it more than Togekiss, since (apart from Ice and maybe Fire) it weaknesses are uncommon, it can counter common playstyles, and it can Spore annoying things. Togekiss also has weaknesses to Electric, Ice, and Rock, all three of which you see on a large portion of teams.

In response to nyttyn's post, I would like to say a few things. First off, "zero offensive presense" implies that it literally can't dent anything. Against Rain and Sand, I find its Giga Drain to be very effective, as it not only deals a solid ~40%, it also heals in return, extending longetivity. Also, it is great at soaking up hits due to a much larger selection of resistances than Togekiss, allowing it to last longer than Togekiss in many cases. I will agree on Regenerator being situational, but since you have teammates, you can control a good amount of that "situational" with good 'mons to switch to.

Well, I'm really ashamed that I just repeated my last post with a few tiny additions. Whatevs.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

I think what's happening here is we're forgetting the true reason amoonguss should be A rank.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles-37089220

Do I really need to remind you

 

[BlankZero]

I think what's happening here is we're forgetting the true reason amoonguss should be A rank.

Do I really need to remind you

Wat