Funny, I'm taking flak from a side who is using "get gud, we already had sr for 3 gens why start now, i hate theorymoning but let me dabble in some of my own". My problem is you are not arguing, you are using extremes, unfounded elitism, extreme results of one type of match/playstyle to paint an untrue picture and being generally dismissive of anything you don't like and cherry picking what you quote. It is a wonder I'm even replying to you now."People don't take my arguments seriously, so here you have some strawman and a whacky pro-SR conspiracy"
That's probably contributing to your problem!!!
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/can-we-talk-about-stealth-rock.3585730/page-3#post-7087629Did you actually read that thread? Because I did. The first 3 pages were decent, after that it turns into tons of "Sash spam is obnoxious", "Hurricane spam is too good", "Hail and Sun are better than Rain" (6__6), "apparently Kyurem-B, Volcarona and Dragonite are really strong without rocks in the field" and "this beat me on the ladder, so it's really good". There are 5 pages arguing about Moltres vs Articuno. Last two pages are about Ninjask BPing to Kyurem and Jirachi, and the last few posts were people complaining about bad players spamming Charizard on the ladder.
Someone got #1, #2 and #3 on the ladder with a standard-looking rain team, that is weak as shit to common OU Pokemon like Kyurem-B, Terrakion, Keldeo, Jellicent (quite literally 6-0d by this, unless Hurricane hax), etc. It says a lot about the ladder when one person manages to get the top 3 spots, and it is much worse when they do it with such a mediocre team.
There is a handful of decent posts, but it's nothing to write home about. Personally, I wouldn't use that thread or ladder to support any argument.
Ah yes one liners. Apparently that was a long post so let me put it in simple words, SR can effortlessly be set up, has numerous benefits and has little to few risks or chances of failure with many pokemon who can use it being top tier, removing it on the other hand has larger risks involved, can be foiled much easier and the pokemon trying to remove it have higher chances to be eliminated and end up only removing SR and there are much less common.?
That's post can be summarized in one line "There are more SR users than Spin and Defog users. Also, Rapid Spin can fail vs ghosts". Things that post conveniently ignore:
Did I say they have to run them? I'm saying that these are the mons that can use them, did you even read the post?- Every single one of the Pokemon mentioned does more than just Defog or Spin. In fact, some of them don't even need to run those moves
Sure, just remove a couple of worthy pokemon from consideration, a few types and don't use this playstyle if you don't plan on removing SR in the first place, easy right? Amazing really...- Defog or Spin isn't a must in every team. Playing around SR isn't gamebreaking if your team is decent
What I said is true, thread gets opened to discuss SR, thread get ignored for no reason with "promises" to seriously look into this the next gen, next gen arrives, SR thread reopens, gets ignored, etc.Love these weird ass conspiracies that can be shut down in 10 sec
I'm calling this the smogon cycle, if sonic fans can have one why shouldn't we?
LOL, if X5Dragon and everyone in this thread disappears right now, you would still have an entire community to answer to.nobody would have cared about it for more than 2 days?
First of all, it took 1100+ turns for one mon to die, if they wanted as in the case of ABR vs. Tele, it could have lasted much more, and there many replays to post across generations proving that SR does not have that much impact in reducing so called "too long" matches especially in stall vs stall matches, where was this so called pressure to finish this quickly? Ajwf says there is no attacking incentive and without SR it would be 0, in reality the attacking incentive is to the win the game by killing all 6 pokemons on the field, it is as simple as that, trying to justify SR to finish games "faster" and reduce these type of matches is beyond absurd.Did you actually see the replay you linked?
Nothing is being blown out of the water by two obviously mediocre players using mediocre teams. Rest Cobalion and Florges (in OU) vs the "I hope my opponent isn't using a single wallbreaker" stall. If you actually check that replay, you'll realize they don't know how to pressure each other teams at all and it's basically switching around with no actual purpose. I mean, one of the dudes took 80 turns to realize Jirachi could setup SR whenever it wanted and that Defog Skarm was just going to get pp stalled, and that was after PP stalling his own Sableye, which should had won that game in less than 200 turns.
Edit: Unless a ruling is made regarding an SR-less suspect ladder or any serious effort to put facts into arguments I'm done with this for good, it's been 3 gens already. I'll leave the floor to those who want to espouse elitism and find new excuses to avoid doing the right thing, enjoy.