Can you say double trouble?

Spirelord

Prepare for Trouble! Make it Double!

As the title states it, this is a double team. I really want to revamp it, since I don't think that it's been doing well recently.

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Strategy: Kingdra, Togekiss, and Gyrados keep the storm rolling while Lapras, Dugtrio, and Toxicroak back them up and protect them.

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Gyrados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
EVS: 216 HP, 176 Def, 100 Speed, 16 Attack
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Taunt

Dugtrio @ Life Orb
 Ability: Arena Trap
Nature: Jolly
EVS: 252 Att, 252 Speed, 6 HP
- Sucker Punch
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earthquake

This pair will lead the team into battle. Gyrados sweeps while Dugtrio takes care of any electrics. Dugtrio also poisons the opponent, who cannot switch out, and protects to stall. There aren't many electric leads, so Gyrados can easily take out the first pair of enemies.
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Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVS: 252 Sp-Att, 136 Speed, 120 HP
- Signal Beam
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse

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Lapras @ Leftovers/Damp Rock?
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Modest
EVS: 252 HP, 252 Sp-Attack, 6 Def
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
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Swift Swim boosts Kingdra's speed enough so that he's a formidable sweeper. Lapras is there primarily for Thunder and its great ability. With one Surf, Kingdra can both heal Lapras completely and hit the opponent's side hard. Overall, this set has good type coverage.
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Togekiss @ King's Rock/Leftovers?
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Modest​
EVS: 252 HP, 252 Sp-Def, 6 Def
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Ancientpower
- Grass Knot

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Nature: Jolly
EVS: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 Def
- Fake Out
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance

 Serene Grace with King's Rock gives Aura Sphere and Grass Knot a 20% flinch rate. To top that off, the effects of Air Slash and Ancientpower are also doubled, for a purely annoying Togekiss. Toxicroak takes care of any electrics that try to trump Togekiss, and provides more type coverage.

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That's it. I look forward to what everyone has to say about it. If there's any way I can improve this team, please let me know. ^_^
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Sunny Day and Rain Dance on the same team is not a good idea in doubles. I suggest making this either a Rain Dance team or a Sunny Day team. Otherwise there is always the chance that you'll have to use both a Sunny Day and a Rain Dance Pokémon at the same time.
 
I generally agree with SK8R9, but I'd like to battle this team before I make any suggestions or judgments. Other than a general lack of Speed, it looks like it could work, but whether it does is another thing altogether.

You're definitely limiting your flexibility by enforcing a specific ordering of your Pokemon. What if you want to bring out your Houndoom right after your Lapras gets KOed? It's an option, but not a very good option. Teams that make use of a specific sequence of Pokemon can work, but I'm not sure this team has the level of synergy necessary to pull it off reliably.
 
One thing I see about this team is that it is extremely biased to the special side, which makes me wonder about how it would deal with a blissey or another specially-oriented wall.

A way to solve this is to make Kingdra a mixed sweeper with Waterfall (Check the analysis dex for starters), and let Lapras have set up Rain Dance in the last slot. Note that a neutral Surf in Rain does more than a super effective Psychic.

Another thing that you might want to think about is how your pokemon counter common double battle strategies. The only member that can take an Explosion is Dusknoir, and none of your pokemon can absorb a Smeargle Dark Void (or any sleep move for instance). Think about putting Protect on some of your pokemon to scout (E.g. over Confuse Ray). A Fake Out Ludicolo over Lapras can also be something to look into.

And lastly, I second what the previous posters about choosing Sunny Day or Rain Dance, not both. Hope this helps. :)
 
Thanks for the tips, Winto. I'll consider some of them.

Ok, I completely changed the team into a Rain Dance team. How is it now?


Also I have a couple problems:

Should Lapras's item be Leftovers to heal more or Damp Rock to prolong rain dance to 8 turns?

Also, should Manectric switch out Charge Beam for Rain Dance, or keep Charge beam? And what hidden power type would be best for him and the team?
 
TheMaskedNitpicker said:
This crazy Pokémon Showdown tournament notwithstanding, most serious Doubles players are going to play with Sleep Clause.
Click to expand...

Good point - listen to TheMaskedNitpicker on this one, forget me. :P

I hope I got the Explosion point right at least then? Protect is an invaluable move in doubles, it can help shield one of your pokemon from Surf too....
 
I really don't like your massive electric weak here; three of your pokes are weak to electric (four, if Castform's out in the rain). Manetric has Lightningrod, yes, but he's not immune to electric attacks and his poor defenses won't allow him to switch in repeatedly, I don't think. It also doesn't protect against Discharge, so I'd be worried about running into something like a Discharge-happy Porygon-Z, Electivire, or Zapdos as a lead (not the most common leads out there, but it's still a consideration). I'd try to reduce that somehow.

Another things here is that you don't have a lot of pokemon to take boosted Surfs, or, at least, you don't have pokemon to absorb them. Even with a water typing, I don't think Castform can take Surfs for long given its crappy defenses and Manetric was just not made for that kind of thing.

I wouldn't worry too much about Blissey, but if you really want something to kill her, you could always try out Toxicroak, who gets Cross Chop, Fake Out, Sucker Punch, and heals from Surf and nullifies LO recoil in the rain, or you could try Poliwrath, who heals from Surf and can use Hypnosis, bringing a reliable and very effective status effect to your team.

Have you considered leading with Gyarados? Leading with Intimidate can screw up some leads and lower the power of an enemy Explosion (although whether it will save you or not, I don't know, and it still doesn't work against Metagross) and Taunt would be handy in blocking an enemy from setting up something like Trick Room which would massacre your team (Confuse Ray is unreliable and totally ineffective against Slowbro and Slowking). I don't know how well Dragon Dancing would work in doubles, but I think Gyarados has the defenses to pull it off (if Metagross can do it...) not to mention Intimidate to help you.

Hope some of this helped.
 
Added Toxicroak and Wiscash to the team. I still can't find a solid way around electric weaknesses. So far the only two counters to them, Toxicroak and Wiscash, hurt Kingdra, Lapras, and eachother when they use EQ. I'm trying to find someone who knows Earth Power or something and is as useful as one of these two.
 
Well, at the moment, I've nothing to really say, but if you want I can battle this team and see from there if there's anything you specifically need to change.
 
You do have Gyarados and Togekiss who are immune to Earthquake, so there will still be opportunities to use the move. You can add Protect over Lapras's Confuse Ray for instance (Depends, do you really want to rely on confusion a lot?), which would let you quake when it's on the field.

You can try Stone Edge over Spark on Whiscash, as it really needs the extra power. Earthquake with STAB already hits waters harder.

Lastly, two Rain Dance users are usually sufficient in Single Battles already... let alone Doubles, where it's much more fast-paced. Consider adding another move over it on Toxicroak or Whiscash. Fake Out is great on Toxicroak, as are Substitute (With Dry Skin you'll have plenty of healing opportunities) and Protect in general.
 
Thanks again. I've convinced myself that Protect will be more useful than Confuse Ray, as well as Stone Edge over Spark.

While Fake Out looks very enticing on Toxicroak, I don't think I'll be able to take off Rain Dance for it. He'd be the one to set up the first Rain Dance for the team, and he needs to do that for his ability too, in order to nullify Life Orb's damage on him. I don't know how much of a difference that first rain dance will make, so I'm willing to drop it if convinced to do so, but right now I'm unsure.

As for Wiscash, I can't really decide on a move to swap out Rain Dance for, if I swap it out at all. Maybe Amnesia, to increase protection against those devistating common special-attack oriented grass moves?
 
Toxicroak is just such a great offensive pokemon that it seems a bit wasted to have it be your Rain Dancer - Especially in Doubles, where you can have a partner to do it for you. Even if it wasn't Fake Out, it's got Swords Dance, Stone Edge, and a multitude of attacks to work with.

You could always try Whiscash (or Swampert/Gastrodon as bulkier replacements, I don't know if you have a particular attachment to the catfish or anything) to start with your Gyarados instead. Gyarados is already a huge physical threat, so Toxicroak's presence won't be missed to much. Remember that you don't have to have set pairs, your pokemon should be constantly swapping out anyway.

If you do that, you can keep Rain Dance on Whiscash then, and put Fake Out/Swords Dance/Substitute/etc on Toxicroak instead. :)
 
Oh yeah, didn't catch that...I wouldn't use Toxicroak as your Rain Dancer; Fake Out'd be better in the last slot instead. Like I said before, Blissey really shouldn't be a big problem, so just make Kingdra all-special and replace Waterfall for Rain Dance. Also, make it lead with Gyarados instead of Toxicroak since you can bring in the toxic frog later and Gyarados has you anti-set up down already with Taunt.

I'd replace Wishcash for Quagsire. Although slower, he has the same typing and gets the same moves, not to mention he has a better attack stat. He also gets Water Absorb, which will cause Surf to heal him--Wishcash will just get pounded by boosted STAB Surfs from Kingdra and Lapras. He also gets Yawn, which will help some considering you still don't have a reliable status move.
 
If you're still having problems with Electric type attacks, you could try a pokemon with the Ability Lightningrod. Marowak and Rhyperior are good examples.
 
I made some more changes, and I must say I have a lot of confidence in this new team. Of course, it wouldn't be anything it is today without the help from everyone who gave such good advice and helped me along the way. Thank you very much. ^_^
I still have a few issues though:

1) What should Lapras's item be? I'm leaning toward Leftovers, but an extra 3 turns of Rain Dance would be nice.

2) I slapped Signal Beam onto Kingdra rather hurriedly, since all of his other special moves are water, dragon, or ice. I doubt it would be of much use, but I can't find another alternative. A status infliction like Toxic might work, but with the limited lifespan Kingdra has with Life Orb, I don't want to downgrade his sweeping potential.

3) Although four pokemon are able to handle EQ, two aren't. Toxicroak will be okay, since the odds that it is paired up with one of the four teammates that can hold their own in an EQ is high, but Kingdra I'm worried about. Maybe I should switch out Signal Beam for Protect, but then again his special attack with Life Orb should be enough to take down anything EQ is supereffective against.

Other than that, I'm very satisfied with how the team is coming along.
 
This looks like a solid team so far, I can see that it's gone through a lot of changes. One of the things I see that could go wrong is that you said Quagsire is for getting rid of electrics before they can attack Gyarados, but Quagsire isn't very fast so it's not going to be taking out anything except maybe the occasional Ampharos.

A follow me Electivire comes to mind, Dugtrio could also be a help as it could prevent the opponent from switching after the Intimidate attack drop and at the same time eliminate possible electric assaults aimed at Gyara.

As for the Leftovers versus Damp Rock, I would probably use Damp rock since you'll be healing yourself with surf anyway. However, I think that has to do with personal preference rather than "the better choice".
 
Thanks for the advice, Gymdude, it really helped. I was able to find an Electivire and Dugtrio substitute for Quagsire, but both of them have downfalls that trade off with their advantages.

Dugtrio can have Sucker Punch, EQ, Toxic and Protect. He can do what Quagsire can do: kill off Electrics much faster, and stall-kill with toxic and protect, although his poor defenses make this risky. The Arena Trap-Toxic combo will also come in handy, but the problem is, adding Dugtrio will cut down my Rain Dancers to only one, and I don't think Lapras will be enough to keep up with the entire team. I can switch out Sucker Punch on Toxicroak for Rain Dance if I have to.
In fact, I can probably switch Toxi and Dugtrio's positions so that Toxi is one of the leads, but Arena Trap's possibilities seems more inviting to me.

Electivire can also take out Electrics fast with EQ. It can set up Rain Dance, and prove to be a reliable switch in for electric attacks. But his defenses are terrible, and any physical move will bring him down quickly.
 
I like the Gyara - Dugtrio combo. It's kind of risky, but if it works, then go for it. One thing I would suggest is Rock Slide over Stone Edge on Gyara for the flinch rate on both opponents. This could help Dugtrio "stall" - if you want to call it that - and seriously irritate your opponent at the same time.

I have to agree with several people above - get rid of Rain Dance on Toxicroak. You have plenty of other partners who could help set it up in doubles. Toxi is not going to be sticking around for very long - especially with that life orb. Overall, cool team. PM me if you would like to battle.

Baron
 
To be honest, I actually liked your team before the change to add Dugtrio.

I'm not sure how well Dugtrio is going to work out in a Doubles environment with such frail defenses. It works well in Singles because it can come in and take out whatever Pokemon it wanted, and switch out again afterwards. In Doubles, with two Pokemon that can attack at once, I feel like it's going to find itself out of action very quickly.

Electric attacks are obviously a threat to a Rain Dance team, but you have the realize that they can come from so many Pokemon, plugging a Dugtrio is not going to solve the problem. Your best chance would be to simply KO the Pokemon that is the most threatening, whether it be a Electivire, Discharge Porygon-Z, or anything else.

Of course, try any combination you want to, it's your team in the end. :) There's nothing wrong with changing it up if you find a problem.
 
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