Maybe something like auto Trickroom? I mean Trickroom can already throw a whole game out of whack, imagine a turn one Trickroom (that lasts 2-3 turns?). I'm not saying I necessarily like the idea of a walking Trickroom, but it's certainly one way to accomplish this goal. If such a CAP became popular enough fewer people would aim for the higher speed tiers, or keep at least one Pokemon with horrendous speed to "counter" it.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
CAP 10 CAP 10 - Concept Submissions
- Thread starter beej
- Start date
- Status
Maybe something like auto Trickroom? I mean Trickroom can already throw a whole game out of whack, imagine a turn one Trickroom (that lasts 2-3 turns?). I'm not saying I necessarily like the idea of a walking Trickroom, but it's certainly one way to accomplish this goal. If such a CAP became popular enough fewer people would aim for the higher speed tiers, or keep at least one Pokemon with horrendous speed to "counter" it.
Auto-trick room just seems so abundantly powerful. All auto effects now are weather and as such can be replaced or almost ignored if neither team capitalizes on them. Trick room and gravity could become so broken, and I believe fidgit is in cap to give gravity and trick room extra power without breaking them.
Honestly I think you're nitpicking about how it works more than if it would be a good idea. Personally I'm not fond of the auto-weather abilities, especially since two of them have been rendered inaccessible in OU, and one has been relegated to UU. I would not be fond of free gravity/trick room for the same reason.
Given the above, I don't see how you can mess with the speed tiers in a way that matters.
This is what technician is for, and Scizor(Bullet Punch, U-turn), Ambipom(Fake Out, U-Turn) et al already demonstrates that. Having another pokemon with STAB on different low-power moves wouldn't give us any new information.monkeymeet said:
I was just explaining how a certain concept might be achieved. I personally would be a bit annoyed to see such an ability, but then again there are ways to cap the power of such an ability to keep it from being broken. like I said making it 2-3 turns (instead of 4-5 I believe) and only allowing it to get to jump on certain sure-kill speedsters.
Well I suppose I understand using a sweeper instead for the first one, barring unpredictability.
However, as far as Power Swap goes, essentially stealing a Boost from your opponents Pokemon is completely different than using a sweeper. Say a Pokemon like Scizor has +6 Att and is ripping through your team. This "Walls on Wheels" comes in and either takes a hit from the Bullet Punch due to its Bulkiness, or can Power Swap before the Scizor goes because of his speed, ending Scizor's streak, essentially walling him. Sure it now has a +6 Att and can continue to go on the offensive, but it still walled the Scizor in a way.
You shouldn't let Scizor get to +6 to begin with, but you'd have to be unbelievably bulky to survive a +6 BP. Speed is irrelevant in this situation since BP has priority. Finally, you won't survive two +6 BP's guaranteed so the whole "gain +6 attack" is moot.
Name: Anti-entry hazard
General Concept: A poke that instantly removes any entry hazard upon entering battle.
Justification: Well, we all know that SR is the most important move in the metagame, helping many pokes score OHKOs that would otherwise be 2HKOs without SR up. Also, switching is really hurt by this move as the constant damage dealing does add up so most teams have a Spinner. So what if a poke could come in and get rid of any entry hazard, taking no damage, and not wasting a move.
Questions to be answered:
1. Would this make many rapid spinners useless?
2. Would this ability be too overpowering that the game would completely change into complete offensive?
3. Would this ability really be worth it as it's doing nothing but spinning anyways?
4. Because of this poke, could spinners have different roles now because of such poke?
Explanation: This poke comes into battle and all entry hazards are removed (Spikes and SR). This makes getting rid of entry hazards much, much easier. If removing all entry hazards is too much, it could be a random one, or just SR in general. SR does control the game this generation and making it less important could slow the game down in general.
I have class now, I'll finish editing this when I return.
I'm editing this constantly for correct post
General Concept: A poke that instantly removes any entry hazard upon entering battle.
Justification: Well, we all know that SR is the most important move in the metagame, helping many pokes score OHKOs that would otherwise be 2HKOs without SR up. Also, switching is really hurt by this move as the constant damage dealing does add up so most teams have a Spinner. So what if a poke could come in and get rid of any entry hazard, taking no damage, and not wasting a move.
Questions to be answered:
1. Would this make many rapid spinners useless?
2. Would this ability be too overpowering that the game would completely change into complete offensive?
3. Would this ability really be worth it as it's doing nothing but spinning anyways?
4. Because of this poke, could spinners have different roles now because of such poke?
Explanation: This poke comes into battle and all entry hazards are removed (Spikes and SR). This makes getting rid of entry hazards much, much easier. If removing all entry hazards is too much, it could be a random one, or just SR in general. SR does control the game this generation and making it less important could slow the game down in general.
I have class now, I'll finish editing this when I return.
I'm editing this constantly for correct post
Unless it got rid of exactly one entry hazard (Spikes or Stealth Rocks) this would be broken. Note I didn't mention Toxic Spikes because poison types already absorb those on entry.
Well you clearly don't know how Power Swap works. You and your opponent switch boosts meaning you are suddenly at +6 while the Scizor has +0 Don't Believe me?
I'll give this a shot...
Concept Name: Providing the Bait
General Concept: A Pokemon that successfully functions as a lure with no strings attached.
Justification: In the current standard metagame, the use of a lure to draw out a certain Pokemon to clear the way for others to sweep is becoming quite common. You see this in several ways: MysticGengar, HP Fire Latias, DD Babiri Tyranitar with Fire Punch, TrapTran, etc. However, lures do come at one price: a drop in coverage, power, or stats (in the case of IV altering for Hidden Powers). What this concept aims to do is create a Pokemon that can function as a Lure, but doesn't initially sacrifice any coverage or power to do so. This would allow it to successfully function outside of its role as a lure, and help the team in other ways, such as being able to take care of a variety of Pokemon.
Questions to be Answered:
-How much does a lure differ from the standard set that the lure would carry otherwise?
-Do sacrifices need to be made in order to create a successful lure?
-Can a lure be successful outside of its job to remove a specific Pokemon to make breathing room for the rest of the team?
Explanation: I've always relied on the use of lures to help create a successful sweep. However, I have continually noticed something I've had to give up in order to create the lure. I've always wondered if it was possible to create a lure that could still function outside of taking out the specific Pokemon I wanted out of the way to sweep. I was thinking about creating an offensive Pokemon that could have a wide variety of moves, where certain combinations allowed certain Pokemon to be drawn out and defeated, but all of the combinations could provide the same type of coverage. The best way to measure this would be to use X-Act's Coverage App to calculate what moves could provide optimal coverage, and then use that to create different sets of unique movesets with top coverage. This way, opponents wouldn't be able to tell what was coming, and any general counters could be screwed over.
Concept Name: Providing the Bait
General Concept: A Pokemon that successfully functions as a lure with no strings attached.
Justification: In the current standard metagame, the use of a lure to draw out a certain Pokemon to clear the way for others to sweep is becoming quite common. You see this in several ways: MysticGengar, HP Fire Latias, DD Babiri Tyranitar with Fire Punch, TrapTran, etc. However, lures do come at one price: a drop in coverage, power, or stats (in the case of IV altering for Hidden Powers). What this concept aims to do is create a Pokemon that can function as a Lure, but doesn't initially sacrifice any coverage or power to do so. This would allow it to successfully function outside of its role as a lure, and help the team in other ways, such as being able to take care of a variety of Pokemon.
Questions to be Answered:
-How much does a lure differ from the standard set that the lure would carry otherwise?
-Do sacrifices need to be made in order to create a successful lure?
-Can a lure be successful outside of its job to remove a specific Pokemon to make breathing room for the rest of the team?
Explanation: I've always relied on the use of lures to help create a successful sweep. However, I have continually noticed something I've had to give up in order to create the lure. I've always wondered if it was possible to create a lure that could still function outside of taking out the specific Pokemon I wanted out of the way to sweep. I was thinking about creating an offensive Pokemon that could have a wide variety of moves, where certain combinations allowed certain Pokemon to be drawn out and defeated, but all of the combinations could provide the same type of coverage. The best way to measure this would be to use X-Act's Coverage App to calculate what moves could provide optimal coverage, and then use that to create different sets of unique movesets with top coverage. This way, opponents wouldn't be able to tell what was coming, and any general counters could be screwed over.
You're not paying attention. The scenario you described is flawed in that you'd have to take two full-powered bullet punches, once on the switch in, and once the turn you try to power swap. IF you survive, you still have to survive a third, normal powered bullet punch(assuming you're not using faster priority yourself), and if the concept is as initially weak as I think it is, it will probably need to survive a fourth.
Regardless, there's no real way to create a strategy around that, you're either gonna spend a large amount of time causing your opponent to get higher stats so you can steal them, or you're depending on your opponent using a strategy that they may not have bothered with.
I was thinking about Wisp Kit and Wisp Rev when I made the concept, but they both aren't at that level of good that I wanted. I was thinking something better than both of them. Wisp Kit has problems with Heatran -- more specifically Scarf ("And Colo"). Wisp Rev really only works as well as it does because its nabbing pokemon like Gyara on the switch -- you would never switch into Salamence or Gyara and risk the DM/Outrage/Bounce/whatever just to burn them because thats not how Rev works...
just thought i'd clarify that though i really dont have the stomach for posting much anymore...
Regardless of method, a 'wall on wheels' once it attempts to make a counter-attack on the foe, it stops being a wall. A wall should force your foe out and make the momentum work in your favour. Making a wall 'fast' and able to be offensive turns it essentially into a tank or a bulky sweeper.
Yeah, the idea definitely was not to make it a tank or sweeper, I did mention set up in my explanation, but that was a complete after-thought and definitely not the idea. At the most I think that power swap could be used to phaze a threat, though that would probably be done just as well or better with haze or whirlwind. Anyways the idea was to try and find a new role with the pokemon, i.e. a speed-staller or maybe a very defensive stall-breaker/ momentum stealer.
Name: Anti-Scout
General Description: A Pokemon that prevents the opponent from gaining information about the user's team.
Justification: Pokemon is a game of imperfect information, and one key to success in it is preventing ones opponent from gaining information about ones team. An Anti-Scout would let us explore the role of scouting in the OU metagame, and how important it really is in battles. If an Anti-Scout were commonly used in the metagame for the purpose of witholding information, then we would be able to conclude that it was very important in OU to keep ones opponent from gaining information about ones team. If the Anti-Scout were not used very much, or were used for something other than keeping ones opponent from knowing ones team, then we would be able to conclude that scouting was not a very important part of the metagame. Also, since Kitsunoh is widely believed to have failed in testing its concept, we would get another chance to test the role of scouting in the metagame.
Questions to be Answered: To what extent can a single Pokemon prevent the user's opponent from gaining information about ones team? In the OU metagame, how important is it to gain information about ones opponent's team? What new strategies would people use to gain information about others' teams? What is the most reliable way to withold information about ones team?
Explanation: Such a Pokemon would most likely be a bulky Pokemon that can switch into many threats, thus requiring that the user of the Anti-Scout not reveal too many Pokemon trying to counter the opponent's Pokemon. The Anti-Scout would also be viable on almost every style of team, so that it would not reveal what style of team the battler was using. Another thing that could help a Pokemon stop scouting was if it had an ability that kept the opponent from inducing switches with moves. This would prevent the effects of common scouting moves such as U-turn, Baton Pass, Whirlwind, and Roar.
General Description: A Pokemon that prevents the opponent from gaining information about the user's team.
Justification: Pokemon is a game of imperfect information, and one key to success in it is preventing ones opponent from gaining information about ones team. An Anti-Scout would let us explore the role of scouting in the OU metagame, and how important it really is in battles. If an Anti-Scout were commonly used in the metagame for the purpose of witholding information, then we would be able to conclude that it was very important in OU to keep ones opponent from gaining information about ones team. If the Anti-Scout were not used very much, or were used for something other than keeping ones opponent from knowing ones team, then we would be able to conclude that scouting was not a very important part of the metagame. Also, since Kitsunoh is widely believed to have failed in testing its concept, we would get another chance to test the role of scouting in the metagame.
Questions to be Answered: To what extent can a single Pokemon prevent the user's opponent from gaining information about ones team? In the OU metagame, how important is it to gain information about ones opponent's team? What new strategies would people use to gain information about others' teams? What is the most reliable way to withold information about ones team?
Explanation: Such a Pokemon would most likely be a bulky Pokemon that can switch into many threats, thus requiring that the user of the Anti-Scout not reveal too many Pokemon trying to counter the opponent's Pokemon. The Anti-Scout would also be viable on almost every style of team, so that it would not reveal what style of team the battler was using. Another thing that could help a Pokemon stop scouting was if it had an ability that kept the opponent from inducing switches with moves. This would prevent the effects of common scouting moves such as U-turn, Baton Pass, Whirlwind, and Roar.
Name: Adaptability (Not the Ability!)
Description: A Pokemon that adapts to different situations presented by its enemy in a given battle.
Justification: In today’s metagame, teams usually rely on countering the opponent to win the match; however, this Pokemon would offer a completely new niche in the OU environment. This Pokemon would adapt to the enemy instead of countering the enemy to conquer it. We could investigate how well adapting to the opponent instead of countering the opponent performs.
Questions to be Answered:
Explanation: I would love to see a new way to take down your opponent instead of relying on the ever-present strategy of switching to counter whoever you're up against. This Pokemon can literally have any kind of style, typing, movepool, or stat spread bias, so it can be built to fit what everyone thinks is most suitable for this Pokemon. However, there is one specific ability I have in mind for this Pokemon: Color Change. It's a very helpful ability to promote the "adapting to the opponent in any given situation", but it also has the risk of doing the complete opposite, which is why my description points out "different situations". This Pokemon is going to carry an enormous niche in today's metagame, and it's something I want to explore deeply. The end product will be extremely rewarding.
Description: A Pokemon that adapts to different situations presented by its enemy in a given battle.
Justification: In today’s metagame, teams usually rely on countering the opponent to win the match; however, this Pokemon would offer a completely new niche in the OU environment. This Pokemon would adapt to the enemy instead of countering the enemy to conquer it. We could investigate how well adapting to the opponent instead of countering the opponent performs.
Questions to be Answered:
- Is adapting to the opponent more viable than countering the opponent?
- How would an adapting Pokemon impact any style of team?
- How does the metagame change in response to the adapting Pokemon?
- Will unique strategies be used to prevent this Pokemon from adapting to the opponent?
- Will certain Pokemon types be discouraged from competitive play?
- Will unique strategies be used to prevent this Pokemon from adapting to the opponent?
Explanation: I would love to see a new way to take down your opponent instead of relying on the ever-present strategy of switching to counter whoever you're up against. This Pokemon can literally have any kind of style, typing, movepool, or stat spread bias, so it can be built to fit what everyone thinks is most suitable for this Pokemon. However, there is one specific ability I have in mind for this Pokemon: Color Change. It's a very helpful ability to promote the "adapting to the opponent in any given situation", but it also has the risk of doing the complete opposite, which is why my description points out "different situations". This Pokemon is going to carry an enormous niche in today's metagame, and it's something I want to explore deeply. The end product will be extremely rewarding.
isn't the closest thing to a wall on wheels tentacruel?
Name: Field Effect-er
Description: A pokemon that can either set up a field or effect or perhaps renew or extend a pre-existing effect through an ability, a general renewal move, or perhaps just better to stats to reset something up.
Justification: In the current metagame most field effects other than entry hazards are considered too gimmicky for real usage and although fidget helps with this a little I think we should try something new. However, it would need to be limited so perhaps it could set up a field effect but not really be able to use it well or maybe just renew field effects already on the field. As an ability it might be too powerful but perhaps it might get a renewal move or be able to use a better version of assist.
Questions:
-Are field effects really too gimmicky for proper use?
-Is it possible to input auto-field effects without overcentralizing the metagame?
-Could we effectively renew field effects
Explanation:
I've always seen field effects as kind of gimmicky but could we build a pokemon to abuse them without changing the metagame too drastically. Also, for the renewal idea that might be hard to program so sorry if this is a bad suggestion.
Description: A pokemon that can either set up a field or effect or perhaps renew or extend a pre-existing effect through an ability, a general renewal move, or perhaps just better to stats to reset something up.
Justification: In the current metagame most field effects other than entry hazards are considered too gimmicky for real usage and although fidget helps with this a little I think we should try something new. However, it would need to be limited so perhaps it could set up a field effect but not really be able to use it well or maybe just renew field effects already on the field. As an ability it might be too powerful but perhaps it might get a renewal move or be able to use a better version of assist.
Questions:
-Are field effects really too gimmicky for proper use?
-Is it possible to input auto-field effects without overcentralizing the metagame?
-Could we effectively renew field effects
Explanation:
I've always seen field effects as kind of gimmicky but could we build a pokemon to abuse them without changing the metagame too drastically. Also, for the renewal idea that might be hard to program so sorry if this is a bad suggestion.
Well Latias is faster, but I see your point, seeing as how Tentacruel is a wall while Latias is more bulky. I guess Tentacruel makes a lot more sense in that case, but to be honest I didn't go through every single pokemon when I made that statement, I can edit it if it's really important to you.
Still, the hypothetical pokemon would hopefully have a completely different role from tentacruel (who's basically just another spinner/spiker/wall) and would be faster and more involved in actual stalling, rather than set-up/support.
On another note, most of the good ideas I've seen seem to trend towards utility roles (Utility Counter, Jack of all Trades, Adaptability, multi-type, I have fury...). This isn't to say that those are the only good ideas (I like the anti-scout, though that would be hard to do), but they are pretty predominant. It would be interesting, not to mention very handy, to be able to put this pokemon on almost any team to deal with its biggest problem. It also provides a deeper look at utility sets like tyrani-boah or agility-lucario.
I think the problem would be in that pokemon becoming exceptionally good at one role, and thus only being used for that role. This seems to be, from what I gather, what happened with Collosoil and Kitsunoh. Also, the question remains whether we really need a CAP to do this, we already have pokemon with balanced stats (celebi, jiraichi) who can fulfill a multitude of roles, and the aforementioned pokemon that already use utility sets. Also, if the pokemon does counter so many threats, it could quite possibly end up countering them pretty badly, and could be easy to work around.
Also, some of these ideas are blatantly overpowered/unnecessary/why??.
Still, the hypothetical pokemon would hopefully have a completely different role from tentacruel (who's basically just another spinner/spiker/wall) and would be faster and more involved in actual stalling, rather than set-up/support.
On another note, most of the good ideas I've seen seem to trend towards utility roles (Utility Counter, Jack of all Trades, Adaptability, multi-type, I have fury...). This isn't to say that those are the only good ideas (I like the anti-scout, though that would be hard to do), but they are pretty predominant. It would be interesting, not to mention very handy, to be able to put this pokemon on almost any team to deal with its biggest problem. It also provides a deeper look at utility sets like tyrani-boah or agility-lucario.
I think the problem would be in that pokemon becoming exceptionally good at one role, and thus only being used for that role. This seems to be, from what I gather, what happened with Collosoil and Kitsunoh. Also, the question remains whether we really need a CAP to do this, we already have pokemon with balanced stats (celebi, jiraichi) who can fulfill a multitude of roles, and the aforementioned pokemon that already use utility sets. Also, if the pokemon does counter so many threats, it could quite possibly end up countering them pretty badly, and could be easy to work around.
Also, some of these ideas are blatantly overpowered/unnecessary/why??.
Gamefreak has taken a jab at Walls on Wheels with a good number of Pokemon, such as the base 100s, Gliscor, and even possibly Zapdos or Tentacruel, but not to the extreme the concept submission implies. It's not an entirely new concept, regardless, so I'm not sure how much it can tell us about the standard metagame.
Name:Bye Bye suicide lead
General Description:A pokemon that prevents stealth rocks from entering play and gets rid of a suicide lead.
Justification: Many teams rely on suicide leads to set up stealth rock. The only way to stop this is taunt, or try to get rid of the lead which will hold on using its focus sash. Taunting has a huge drawback because they can simply withdraw the pokemon, and send it in later for more. This pokemon should trap and get rid of the opposing suicide lead without the opposing pokemon putting up stealth rock.
Questions to be answered: How important is stealth rock to opposing teams? Will suicide leads decline because of this pokemon? How will teams do without their stealth rock?
Explanation: This pokemon will probably need to be faster than the opposing lead to stop the rocks. A trapping ability or move to keep the pokemon in might help. Once the oppositions trapped and unable to rock there at you're mercy and you're free to dispose of the lead.
General Description:A pokemon that prevents stealth rocks from entering play and gets rid of a suicide lead.
Justification: Many teams rely on suicide leads to set up stealth rock. The only way to stop this is taunt, or try to get rid of the lead which will hold on using its focus sash. Taunting has a huge drawback because they can simply withdraw the pokemon, and send it in later for more. This pokemon should trap and get rid of the opposing suicide lead without the opposing pokemon putting up stealth rock.
Questions to be answered: How important is stealth rock to opposing teams? Will suicide leads decline because of this pokemon? How will teams do without their stealth rock?
Explanation: This pokemon will probably need to be faster than the opposing lead to stop the rocks. A trapping ability or move to keep the pokemon in might help. Once the oppositions trapped and unable to rock there at you're mercy and you're free to dispose of the lead.
A better comparison would be quick stall in ubers, with Mewtwo, Lugia, and Skymin all being extremely fast yet "bulky"
Concept: Isaac Newton's got Nothing on This
Description: A Pokemon with the ability to summon Auto-Gravity
Justification: Over the years, auto-effect Pokemon have become more prevalent (i.e., Kyogre, Groudon, Abomasnow, etc..), which effect the metagame as to the number of Field Effect teams present. Gravity is an uncommon field effect found in any metagame, and with an auto-Gravity summoner, people will realize the effectiveness Gravity can have when used (right).
Questions:
- What kind of Pokemon will benefit/suffer from the presence of Gravity?
- Can a Pokemon function effectively outside of Gravity, or not?
- How will the metagame adapt to combat the prevalence of Gravity?
- How well will an opposing player combat a Gravity based team?
Explanation:
I've always seen Gravity as somewhat of an "anti-metagame" effect. With the multitude of Flying-Types/Levitate Pokemon, prevalent moves such as Earthquake are hampered by the fear of a switch in of one of those two types of Pokemon. With Gravity, the ability to use such moves like Earthquake is increased, as one doesn't have to worry about that switch-in to a Pokemon like Azelf hampering their attack/lock-in to the move due to Choice Band/Scarf.
Thank you for your time.
Description: A Pokemon with the ability to summon Auto-Gravity
Justification: Over the years, auto-effect Pokemon have become more prevalent (i.e., Kyogre, Groudon, Abomasnow, etc..), which effect the metagame as to the number of Field Effect teams present. Gravity is an uncommon field effect found in any metagame, and with an auto-Gravity summoner, people will realize the effectiveness Gravity can have when used (right).
Questions:
- What kind of Pokemon will benefit/suffer from the presence of Gravity?
- Can a Pokemon function effectively outside of Gravity, or not?
- How will the metagame adapt to combat the prevalence of Gravity?
- How well will an opposing player combat a Gravity based team?
Explanation:
I've always seen Gravity as somewhat of an "anti-metagame" effect. With the multitude of Flying-Types/Levitate Pokemon, prevalent moves such as Earthquake are hampered by the fear of a switch in of one of those two types of Pokemon. With Gravity, the ability to use such moves like Earthquake is increased, as one doesn't have to worry about that switch-in to a Pokemon like Azelf hampering their attack/lock-in to the move due to Choice Band/Scarf.
Thank you for your time.
- Status