CAP 13 CAP 2 - Concept Assessment - Multitype

[Paradox]

Dusk I honestly think that you are getting a little too caught up in making this Pokemon stand apart... Seriously, why not just throw this guy Illusion and Prankster as its other abilities if we go this far. (Not to sound harsh, you're obviously still giving us a discussion stage and stuff so no harm done ofc.)

IMO Multitype will be severely limiting of the process, as has been said, and as Jas has brought up before is a huge variable in a Pokemon. If Multitype is something we explore, it should be a concept in itself.

Obviously there are significant benefits in choosing Multitype. Being able to run STAB Sacred Fire, or Focus Punch, or tons of other things would be really cool. My question is just if this is the way we want to pull this concept off. This, to me, is just such an "easy way out". We could have given Multitype to Utility Counter, Theoretical Threat, and a ton of other concepts and they would have fulfilled their concepts very well. We didn't, and wouldn't. I believe that there were good reasons for that, and that they are still valid.

Sketch is the best move in the game, let's not limit our creativity by also giving CAP 2 the best ability in the game.

EDIT @Dusk: Eh, wasn't meant to sound that confrontational. Wasn't trying to make a personal attack (you didn't do anything wrong, etc). I obviously addressed the merit of the idea, I just don't think it is all the right direction, which you seem to accept. Anyways sorry I guess.

 

[Drakonnas]

I agree with the sentiments of many that allowing Multitype would distract our attention from what we really want to learn about the metagame: Sketch. But, maybe almost as important, is that I believe Multitype deserves to be studied on it's own. There's a lot that we may learn from this ability, and we should not go around mixing it up with Sketch. I'd say let's reserve Multitype for another CAP.

I agree with zyrefredric. I think that a Multitype CAP would be a really interesting idea. Moreover, I think that Multitype would distract from the purpose of this CAP.

 

[Asylum_Rhapsody]

Be sure to keep posts related to primarily Multitype guys. R_D wants to get the particpants opinions on it specifically. Delving into other abilities can wait until the proper steps.

I'm confused. I don't think it's entirely fair for bringing up alternative options here to be considered poll-jumping. If we're going to critique the idea, then shouldn't part of that naturally include bringing up alternatives that are comparable to Multi-Type in some way, accomplishing what Multi-Type is intended to bring to Sketchy but in other ways? With specific comparisons being made to Multi-Type, bringing up abilities like Forecast or Normalize should be perfectly kosher, though I understand why this would exclude alternative suggestions that aren't directly comparable, like Prankster or Trace.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Dusk I honestly think that you are getting a little too caught up in making this Pokemon stand apart... Seriously, why not just throw this guy Illusion and Prankster as its other abilities if we go this far. (Not to sound harsh, you're obviously still giving us a discussion stage and stuff so no harm done ofc.)

Not to sound harsh? Really, making fun of a discussion stage that I'm holding and subsequently insulting my judgment are by all definitions harsh. The fact that you think I am just trying to make this CAP stand out is an insult above all others. Look, this discussion results from a lot of discussion on #cap (IRC) that you and many others did not play witness to. I heard all of the arguments both ways in the discussions that were had, and couldn't make up my mind one way or the other. It got to the point where if we were going to pursue Multitype, it would have to be discussed, and I was not going to mandate it or shove it down everyones' throats. I wanted the community's input because I felt that it would help me make my decision, and so far it has helped me a great deal.

I have read all of the posts in this thread, and honestly, they've helped me understand the situation a lot better from the position of a user in the project. I'll make a final judgment call when the thread has been open for 24 hours so that everyone across the world may participate, but as it stands I am currently very much against pursuing Multitype further for CAP 2.

 

[MektarTheOverlord]

A lot of people have had good points about why Multitype would be bad for this concept, and I agree with them. If we gave this CAP Multitype, too much focus would be placed on the CAP's type rather than the move it Sketches, which was the goal in the first place. Also, I forsee a future where the Pokemon will run STAB Legendary moves, such as Sacred Fire, Psystrike, or Spacial Rend 90% of the time. That wouldn't be fun. The only ability that could be worse for this CAP is Wonder Guard.

 

[a fairy]

I am against giving CAP2 Multitype.

We have him Sketch, which in theory allows him to run any move in the game. As the last thread talked about, thee was a pretty big list of moves he could use effectively. Now, we're going to do two things to him giving him Multitype:

1. Force the CAP to run Jedgement as his Sketch'd moe
2. When seen at Team Preview, it'll just give him another air of "haha guess what set I'm running"

Some of you may not have played BW Ubers. I was tutored it last round. One of the first things my tutor said was similar to this:

Arced is fucking dangerous. Each set requires a different counter. If it's A, Skarmory walls it. B, Diagla. However, if you lose the counter because you don't know which set it is, game over.

Are we really gonna give this already theoretically versatile pokemon another trick to taunt its opponent when it shows up in Team Preview?

 

[DarkSlay]

A lot has been said already about the pros and cos of Multitype, so I'll skip all of the specific data information and go straight to my opinion. After reading some of these posts and doing some of my own thinking, I've come to agree that Multitype is not the correct choice for CAP2.

First off, though, I want to address this belief that "Multitype" or "X and Y" will take the focus off of Sketch and derail the process. While I understand that an ability like Multitype would be very important in how to define the Pokemon, to say that the addition of Multitype will overthrow the main concept really ignores and belittles the CAP process. The concept is concretely placed in front of us, make no mistake in that. The conversations and stages of the CAP process will always focus around that concept and that concept alone. In other words, Sketch will always be the forefront of discussion from here on out, and the people who orchestrate this project (including Dusk and myself) will always remember that. Don't let future predictions like this bog down creativity and the opportunity to think outside of the box. It's not the correct reason to terminate an idea like Multitype, in my opinion.

I think the main reason why Multitype is not the correct choice is highlighted in posts from users like reachzero, where there is competitive rationale as to why it's a bad choice. To create counters and threats for a Pokemon that has access to any one move AND to all 17 types is not a good idea, regardless of what movepool and stats we give it. Typing is just as important as stats and movepool in terms of determining both the offensive and defensive prowess of a Pokemon. To have a Pokemon that could not only run a myriad of moves, but can be a myriad of individual Pokemon, makes me very uneasy about Multitype, and very much inclined to disallow it.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Yeah, I have to admit, I walked into this thinking positively about what Multitype could have done for the concept, but the arguments presented here have swayed me soundly against it. reachzero, jas, and Spork made some really good points that have, along with the rest of the discussion, convinced me to not pursue Multitype further. Furthermore, I'm really encouraged by the vigor with which so many users stood behind the concept and kept their eyes on the prize. If we keep that sort of attitude up, I have no doubts that this CAP will be as successful as we all want it to be. Thanks for all of the discussion! Now it's time that we move onto the next stage.