CAP 21 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[Celever]

• Name - Tuned Out and Determined

• Description - This will be a Pokemon who fulfils a single offensive or defensive purpose regardless of the team matchup and any effects in play on the field (e.g weather, trick room, gravity) during the battle.

• Justification- While this concept may seem pretty boring and pointless in the long run, I'm confident that having a Pokemon like this will be healthy for the metagame. While weather isn't as prominent now, and obviously Trick Room and the like are rare as, this concept shines when looking at the "regardless of team matchup". It's too often that a tournament match is blamed on the matchup, or a laddering streak is brought to a halt by an unfortunate counterteam. Having a Pokemon who functions the same way regardless of its opponent seems like an appealing factor. Of course, it will still have to have some versatility to be able to fit on a myriad of different teams, but the type of set CAP21 is using should be apparent on the team preview. Not being perturbed by different weather conditions also means that this Pokemon will be able to fit on many different team archetypes.

• Questions To Be Answered:

- To what extent do team matchups affect which player wins or loses a match?
- How viable are stage effects like weather, Trick Room, Gravity and the Terrains? Is there a need to try an counter these team archetypes specifically while teambuilding?
- How diverse is the pool of OU threats? Is it even feasible to have a balanced Pokemon capable of not being directly countered by even one of them?
- Should this Pokemon focus on a single offensive purpose, or a single defensive purpose? What about both? What niche is the OU metagame in the direst need of filling?

• Explanation - Well, this is my first concept submission. I apologise if it's awful, but I think this could be a really interesting idea to use because it's not very limiting during the CAP building process and seems relatively balanced, due to being fairly predictable, just from the team preview. It has versatility through other mechanics -- not just its moves or abilities like other Pokemon. Not being negatively affected by weather means that this CAP should realistically be able to function normally on a sun, rain, sand and hail teams, though not necessarily be advantaged by doing so.

So what do you think? If this concept is awful, feedback is appreciated so in the future I can make not-awful ones! :p

 

[ginganinja]

Its still a vague concept. Its clear that you want to create a concept around Trick Room, Gravity or Terrains (Its listed in your questions) but your concept doesn't actually address this. Trick Room, for instance, prolly works better against faster teams, so you still have the matchup issue whether you like it or not, something you mention in your concept that you want to handle. In addition, not being negatively affected by weather, means you need some protection against Sandstorm AND Hail, which leaves you some weird hybrid typing or defaulting to abilities like Magic Guard, which actually LIMITS your options. There isn't really a solid direction or goal with this concept, beyond "Hey lets make a CAP". Its not that its a horrible concept, is more that its trying to be a good choice user/scarfer/special sweeper/physical sweeper/hazard setter/hazard remover/wall/revenge killer/wallbreaker/trapper/pivot/status platform thats not negatively impacted by weather, can also use Trick Room/Gravity/Terrain AND single handedly solves the matchup issue facing XY OU.

 

[Pipotchi]

Okay, my comments on the concepts so far:

Suck it and See: I like the concept, although actually making this could prove to be rather one dimensional, as of there are really only two ways to go about this:
1. Give an immense movepool for support (as of a huge offensive movepool would really just end up with getting the best coverage with maybe a few surprise counter moves here and there)
2. Have two or more powerful abilities that have hugely differing effects (I'd say that the Bronzong comparison works very well here)

The best would probably be to combine the two, which would essentially make a stronger more versatile Bronzong. The offensive options here are lacking, although if going with #2, offensive abilities could be considered (like having both Sheer Force and Huge Power or something like that).

I dont wana throw out too many ideas about my suggestion and Im glad you liked the overall concept, but I want to say I dont think its quite that one-dimensional. Even inside those two options you stated there is a lot of different things to explore, as well as other things that dont fit into those two (such as on-hit items which the cap could excel at using like eject button, weakness policy or red card- which are incredibly unexplored items, red card i have only seen used with deoxys-d OFTEN and eject button i have only ever seen used by me on klefki lol- that requires the enemy to hit it first? ).
Since the idea will possibly involve taking two polar opposite strengths (either through ability, item choice, movepool), we are also discovering through the creation process what polar opposite weaknesses actually means in pokemon. Perhaps its not just as simple as an immnity to fire and immunity to water. Maybe the polar opposite of immunity to water is an immunity to toxic, because water is the STAB attack of powerful wallbreakers like keldeo or azumarill and the opposite to them could be defensive pokemon that rely on status? Im just saying I think it wont just be the same as putting sap sipper and water absorb on a ground type and calling it done.

 

[AD Mega-Shedinja]

I dont wana throw out too many ideas about my suggestion and Im glad you liked the overall concept, but I want to say I dont think its quite that one-dimensional. Even inside those two options you stated there is a lot of different things to explore, as well as other things that dont fit into those two (such as on-hit items which the cap could excel at using like eject button, weakness policy or red card- which are incredibly unexplored items, red card i have only seen used with deoxys-d OFTEN and eject button i have only ever seen used by me on klefki lol- that requires the enemy to hit it first? ).
Since the idea will possibly involve taking two polar opposite strengths (either through ability, item choice, movepool), we are also discovering through the creation process what polar opposite weaknesses actually means in pokemon. Perhaps its not just as simple as an immnity to fire and immunity to water. Maybe the polar opposite of immunity to water is an immunity to toxic, because water is the STAB attack of powerful wallbreakers like keldeo or azumarill and the opposite to them could be defensive pokemon that rely on status? Im just saying I think it wont just be the same as putting sap sipper and water absorb on a ground type and calling it done.

I'll have to disagree with the item part. Sure, those items would help against Pokemon like Kitsuno who are made to scout and keep it from revealing more of your moveset and ability, but using those items would really be giving the opponent a free bit of information on the Pokemon without them even having to try and scout. Better items would be things that don't make an outward appearance until they need to be used or just straight up can't be figured out unless Frisked, Tricked, Switcharoo'd, etc. like gems (although they aren't released yet) or Big Root (just an example, not saying that this should be one of the common items to use on the Pokemon).

The idea on the different abilities with polar opposites is still just a bigger, better version of Bronzong. I agree that it won't be as straightforward as putting two abilities on a Pokemon, but it still won't be anything that is much harder to scout out when compared to Bronzong. However, I do think making this could be very interesting now that you've brought up items and the like, and I fully support this concept being the one for CAP21.

 

[DangerousCacturne]

Name: Anti Stat-Boosting Defensive

Description: This pokemon would be designed to make stat-boosting moves like Swords Dance, Agility, (etc.) in some way unfavourable for its opponents to use, and it would be intended to have decent, but not obscene, survivability. It could also be created to counter stat-boosting abilities like speed boost if that was deemed necessary.

Justification: In the OU, there are many pokemon who rely on stat-boosting moves to fight much more powerfully, including Dragonite, Garchomp, Scizor, Gyarados, Latias, and Celebi. Finding a pokemon that could somehow combat this and live to tell the tale could really shake things up a bit for a few of these guys. Our goal would not be to use something like Unaware- we are not trying to ignore their stat changes and then out-fight them. We are looking to somehow alter their stats, by stealing their boosts, or reversing them (Ex: Agility would slow them down if reversed) , or using some other method to make them think twice about trying to up their stats. I think that something like this would really keep both trainers on their toes, and could make or break a match depending on how well it is used. To me, that is what competitive battling is really about: the skill of the trainer. We could do this using an ability or possibly some sort of move, and it would be up to us to find the ideal stats to keep it alive and possibly even dangerous without overpowering it. I feel like the there should not be as much emphasis placed on how this pokemon works as much as whether or not it does work, and could potentially function in the OU. I think that, done right, something like this could really be a game-changer, especially on teams with few heavy hitters who struggle against stat boosts, and for players who enjoy playing mind games in their battles, but that it could also be kept humble enough to enjoy usage only by those who know what they are doing.

Questions to be Answered: Exactly how important ARE stat boosts in the OU?
What would happen if these stat boosts could be effectively countered?
Would this affect the way people who rely on stat-gaining pokemon play in the OU?
Would this make them more hesitant to try and stat-boost? Would they just try to KO this Pokemon as fast as possible? Would they merely ignore it?
Could a pokemon like this be considered valuable in the OU?
How could a pokemon best fit this role?
If used properly, could this pokemon become seriously threatening, or would it need to tag out in favor of a more offensively-oriented partner?

Explanation: If there is one thing I have noticed transitioning from main-game playthrough to competitive battling, it is that stats, and their increasing/decreasing seem to have a much larger effect than I ever realized before. This makes me wonder: What if we could somehow toy with them, make them risky to use, while also possibly being too risky not to use? What would a player do then? By creating a pokemon to fill this sort of role, I think we could answer a lot of questions about the real power of stat-boosts and drops, and whether or not they are worth devoting a slot in the party to manipulate. I think because of the innate trickiness and unpredictability of this pokemon, it would make sense to be a normal, psychic, or ghost type, but ground or rock typing could also easily work, and really, I think the type of such a pokemon would ultimately not be its deciding feature, so of course I would be completely open to other typing as well. Anything that would fit the position would be fine.

 

[DangerousCacturne]

Looking back at my submission, I think we would have to use/create some kind of ability for this effect- I don't know of any moves that would do it, but I am entirely open to trying to achieve this using any existing moves if anyone thinks it could be done.

Also, if this seems too specific, please let me know, and I can try zooming out a step.

 

[Alfalfa]

Name: Anti Stat-Boosting Defensive

Description: This pokemon would be designed to make stat-boosting moves like Swords Dance, Agility, (etc.) in some way unfavourable for its opponents to use, and it would be intended to have decent, but not obscene, survivability. It could also be created to counter stat-boosting abilities like speed boost if that was deemed necessary.

Justification: In the OU, there are many pokemon who rely on stat-boosting moves to fight much more powerfully, including Dragonite, Garchomp, Scizor, Gyarados, Latias, and Celebi. Finding a pokemon that could somehow combat this and live to tell the tale could really shake things up a bit for a few of these guys. Our goal would not be to use something like Unaware- we are not trying to ignore their stat changes and then out-fight them. We are looking to somehow alter their stats, by stealing their boosts, or reversing them (Ex: Agility would slow them down if reversed) , or using some other method to make them think twice about trying to up their stats. I think that something like this would really keep both trainers on their toes, and could make or break a match depending on how well it is used. To me, that is what competitive battling is really about: the skill of the trainer. We could do this using an ability or possibly some sort of move, and it would be up to us to find the ideal stats to keep it alive and possibly even dangerous without overpowering it. I feel like the there should not be as much emphasis placed on how this pokemon works as much as whether or not it does work, and could potentially function in the OU. I think that, done right, something like this could really be a game-changer, especially on teams with few heavy hitters who struggle against stat boosts, and for players who enjoy playing mind games in their battles, but that it could also be kept humble enough to enjoy usage only by those who know what they are doing.

Questions to be Answered: Exactly how important ARE stat boosts in the OU?
What would happen if these stat boosts could be effectively countered?
Would this affect the way people who rely on stat-gaining pokemon play in the OU?
Would this make them more hesitant to try and stat-boost? Would they just try to KO this Pokemon as fast as possible? Would they merely ignore it?
Could a pokemon like this be considered valuable in the OU?
How could a pokemon best fit this role?
If used properly, could this pokemon become seriously threatening, or would it need to tag out in favor of a more offensively-oriented partner?

Explanation: If there is one thing I have noticed transitioning from main-game playthrough to competitive battling, it is that stats, and their increasing/decreasing seem to have a much larger effect than I ever realized before. This makes me wonder: What if we could somehow toy with them, make them risky to use, while also possibly being too risky not to use? What would a player do then? By creating a pokemon to fill this sort of role, I think we could answer a lot of questions about the real power of stat-boosts and drops, and whether or not they are worth devoting a slot in the party to manipulate. I think because of the innate trickiness and unpredictability of this pokemon, it would make sense to be a normal, psychic, or ghost type, but ground or rock typing could also easily work, and really, I think the type of such a pokemon would ultimately not be its deciding feature, so of course I would be completely open to other typing as well. Anything that would fit the position would be fine.

This sounds like you want an Unaware + Psych Up or a Prankster + Topsy-Turvy Pokemon (the former of which has the value to be extremely broken). However, let's be realistic here: that is not going to stop people from running setup mons, it is only giving them another check that needs to be worn down before the Pokemon attempts to sweep. You say that this Pokemon could keep both trainers on their toes, pulling off a Swords Dance often requires skill because there is usually a risk towards attempting to set up. I do not think that stat boosters are particularly problematic, because the trends from stat boosting to raw power fluctuate quite frequently, so they never tend to be quite problematic unless the booster itself is a problem.

 

[AD Mega-Shedinja]

Isn't Arghonaut essentially the same concept? It was made to counter set up sweepers, was it not? Or at least punish them.

This is the same idea, although I suppose the methods in doing this could be different, but I don't think CAP21 would be very interested in being a different version of Arghonaut.

I'd say that you should try taking a step back and make it more general so that we could figure out a better way to go about making it that would be fresh and original.

 

[Cretacerus]

Name: Anti Stat-Boosting Defensive

Description: This pokemon would be designed to make stat-boosting moves like Swords Dance, Agility, (etc.) in some way unfavourable for its opponents to use, and it would be intended to have decent, but not obscene, survivability. It could also be created to counter stat-boosting abilities like speed boost if that was deemed necessary.

Justification: In the OU, there are many pokemon who rely on stat-boosting moves to fight much more powerfully, including Dragonite, Garchomp, Scizor, Gyarados, Latias, and Celebi. Finding a pokemon that could somehow combat this and live to tell the tale could really shake things up a bit for a few of these guys. Our goal would not be to use something like Unaware- we are not trying to ignore their stat changes and then out-fight them. We are looking to somehow alter their stats, by stealing their boosts, or reversing them (Ex: Agility would slow them down if reversed) , or using some other method to make them think twice about trying to up their stats. I think that something like this would really keep both trainers on their toes, and could make or break a match depending on how well it is used. To me, that is what competitive battling is really about: the skill of the trainer. We could do this using an ability or possibly some sort of move, and it would be up to us to find the ideal stats to keep it alive and possibly even dangerous without overpowering it. I feel like the there should not be as much emphasis placed on how this pokemon works as much as whether or not it does work, and could potentially function in the OU. I think that, done right, something like this could really be a game-changer, especially on teams with few heavy hitters who struggle against stat boosts, and for players who enjoy playing mind games in their battles, but that it could also be kept humble enough to enjoy usage only by those who know what they are doing.

Questions to be Answered: Exactly how important ARE stat boosts in the OU?
What would happen if these stat boosts could be effectively countered?
Would this affect the way people who rely on stat-gaining pokemon play in the OU?
Would this make them more hesitant to try and stat-boost? Would they just try to KO this Pokemon as fast as possible? Would they merely ignore it?
Could a pokemon like this be considered valuable in the OU?
How could a pokemon best fit this role?
If used properly, could this pokemon become seriously threatening, or would it need to tag out in favor of a more offensively-oriented partner?

Explanation: If there is one thing I have noticed transitioning from main-game playthrough to competitive battling, it is that stats, and their increasing/decreasing seem to have a much larger effect than I ever realized before. This makes me wonder: What if we could somehow toy with them, make them risky to use, while also possibly being too risky not to use? What would a player do then? By creating a pokemon to fill this sort of role, I think we could answer a lot of questions about the real power of stat-boosts and drops, and whether or not they are worth devoting a slot in the party to manipulate. I think because of the innate trickiness and unpredictability of this pokemon, it would make sense to be a normal, psychic, or ghost type, but ground or rock typing could also easily work, and really, I think the type of such a pokemon would ultimately not be its deciding feature, so of course I would be completely open to other typing as well. Anything that would fit the position would be fine.

I like the idea of having some sort Pokemon which would actively discourage boosting moves, as that is a role we haven't had the chance to explore yet, but would certainly have a huge impact on the metagame. While there have been approaches such as Unaware and Haze as a contingency against set-up moves, it would be interesting and fun to go a step further and turn them into actual liabilities.

That being said, I agree with AD Mega-Shedinja that the creation process itself might be very straightforward and bland with this concept. As interesting the finished product might be, the of process of creating the Pokemon plays an equal if not greater part in the CAP project, and a good concept is expected to generate lasting discussion along the way. As I see it, there are only a handful of specific options we have to approach this concept, the most viable of which would probably be Prankster Topsy-Turvy or Unaware Psych Up, as Alfalfa already pointed out. From the moment we decide on one approach, we are pretty much limited to a certain style of build, especially if we want to reliably deal with most of the very diverse stat boosters found in OU.

Naturally, I see most of your questions are focused on which approach to choose, and then how the Pokemon would affect the metagame once it's finished. If you could perhaps add a few more questions that would actually be answered along the creation journey, I'd be a lot more inclined to consider your concept suitable to fill an entire CAP project.

 

[DangerousCacturne]

Okay, first I would like to thank you all for your feedback. I hadn't ever heard of Topsy-Turvy before, so I hadn't thought of that.

Now, replying to what Shedinja said, the main difference between something like this and Arghonaut would be that this would be more of a supporter than a bulky sweeper or anything of that sort. It probably wouldn't really be so much to take out stat-boosters itself as to stop them and then let a teammate do the dirty work, or to force a switch out. It would have to rely more on speed and being switched in and out at the right time than anything else, although the two might end up sharing some characteristics.

However, I can see how the concept may not be quite developed enough, or may be too limited, to actually go for yet. Because of that, I am going to review my original submission and let you know if I come up with anything that I think could improve upon it to the extent that it might be more worth creating. If I don't come up with anything, then I am going to have to agree with you that this could be an idea best left unfulfilled, but hopefully there will be some way to alter it and make it worth the time and effort.

 

[KeeganSkymin4444]

...Here goes nothing.

Name: Endgame Master

Description: A mon capable of dominating an endgame by a variety of differing means.

Justification: An endgame is nearly invaluable to the resolution of a match. Having a mon with a slight advantage during this endgame would be highly beneficial.

Questions to be Answered:
What is the true value of the endgame?
If there was a Pokemon specifically designed to rule the endgame, how would it fare?
How could this Pokemon be removed before it gains an advantage?
How could any Pokemon dominate an endgame?
Would the four move limit affect how this Pokemon functions?

Explanation: When a certain person takes over an endgame by having the advantage, it can be so satisfying to become that person. If there was a Pokemon that had a key advantage during as many of these situations as possible, it could become valuable. On the other hand, the fact that it would have only four moves would mean that it would have to choose how it would control the endgame. What I am trying to advocate is a Pokemon that could become deadly in the final moments of the game, but is not worth using beforehand, and has its limits on just how many mons it can beat in the one-on-one endgame via having only four moves.

 

[Cretacerus]

• Name - Tuned Out and Determined

• Description - This will be a Pokemon who fulfills a single offensive or defensive purpose regardless of the team matchup and any effects in play on the field (e.g weather, trick room, gravity) during the battle.

• Justification- While this concept may seem pretty boring and pointless in the long run, I'm confident that having a Pokemon like this will be healthy for the metagame. While weather isn't as prominent now, and obviously Trick Room and the like are rare as, this concept shines when looking at the "regardless of team matchup". It's too often that a tournament match is blamed on the matchup, or a laddering streak is brought to a halt by an unfortunate counterteam. Having a Pokemon who functions the same way regardless of its opponent seems like an appealing factor. Of course, it will still have to have some versatility to be able to fit on a myriad of different teams, but the type of set CAP21 is using should be apparent on the team preview. Not being perturbed by different weather conditions also means that this Pokemon will be able to fit on many different team archetypes.

• Questions To Be Answered:

- To what extent do team matchups affect which player wins or loses a match?
- How viable are stage effects like weather, Trick Room, Gravity and the Terrains? Is there a need to try an counter these team archetypes specifically while teambuilding?
- How diverse is the pool of OU threats? Is it even feasible to have a balanced Pokemon capable of not being directly countered by even one of them?
- Should this Pokemon focus on a single offensive purpose, or a single defensive purpose? What about both? What niche is the OU metagame in the direst need of filling?

• Explanation - Well, this is my first concept submission. I apologise if it's awful, but I think this could be a really interesting idea to use because it's not very limiting during the CAP building process and seems relatively balanced, due to being fairly predictable, just from the team preview. It has versatility through other mechanics -- not just its moves or abilities like other Pokemon. Not being negatively affected by weather means that this CAP should realistically be able to function normally on a sun, rain, sand and hail teams, though not necessarily be advantaged by doing so.

So what do you think? If this concept is awful, feedback is appreciated so in the future I can make not-awful ones! :p

Hey there, even though I like the idea of creating a Pokemon around the concept of consistency, I'm not sure how feasible such a Pokemon would actually be. A battle is inherently based largely on team match-up, and while players are able to handle most of the opposing strategies, this is due to their team being flexible and choosing different approaches to win depending on the situation. One simply can't expect the same offensive or defensive approach to be effective in every game. I think this is quite nicely summed up in your question to be answered:

How diverse is the pool of OU threats? Is it even feasible to have a balanced Pokemon capable of not being directly countered by even one of them?

If nothing can stop the Pokemon from fulfilling its specific purpose, then how is is supposed to be kept in check in the metagame? An offensive Pokemon which can fulfill its job regardless of any countermeasures the opponent might take, or a defensive Pokemon which can't be circumvented by even specifically picked wallbreakers don't sound like something desirable in the metagame. The only way I can think of keeping this balanced would be to limit the Pokemon to doing its job once, and then remaining irrelevant for the rest of the match, similar to how suicide leads function. Then again, the benefits those bring might be less relevant against certain team builds compared to others. For example, if the purpose of our Pokemon were to consistently weaken the opposing team through entry hazards, the opponent could still build a team that doesn't care too much about this, proving the Pokemon mostly redundant.
In fact, the effectiveness of CAP depends so much on the opposing strategy that it will be impossible to achieve consistent benefits unless we make it incredibly unbalanced, as far as I see it. It could be possible for this Pokemon to consistently fulfill the same purpose, but it probably won't consistently have the same usefulness against each opposing team, which is something the concept seems to be aiming for.

 

[whydoesntitworkkk]

Name: One-Shot Only

General Description: The concept will be a speedy offensive Pokemon that can deal a respectable amount of damage normally, but is capable of a one-turn power-up (i.e. - like the boost from Gems, only manual and more generic) that gives it the power to muscle past would-be checks. The use of this power-up would be very strategic, and would require excellent prediction to make the most of (not blowing it into a resist/fodder.)

Justification: In Pokemon, the 12.5% damage dealt by a layer of Spikes can mean the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, a clean sweep and a lost win condition. In battles between balance/offense-oriented teams, matches are frequently decided by which side can keep their hazards up and pave the way for a speedy sweeper (e.g. - Talonflame, Excadrill, ect.) to clean up. This has made the game fairly one-dimensional, and I believe introducing the One-Shot Only concept would add another layer of prediction and long-term strategy to the game. It would also be an interesting break from the stale niches of "glass cannon sweeper" and "wall breaker" that most offensive Pokemon find themselves pigeonholed in.
Questions To Be Answered:
-How might the concept influence the importance of maintaining/setting up entry hazards?
-How might the Pokemon affect the prevalence of checks (e.g. - M. Venusaur) vs. dedicated walls (e.g. - Skarmory/Blissey) on teams?
-How will team templates change (e.g. - 3 Poke defensive core, 2 sweepers, 1 tank for some balanced teams) with the introduction of such a versatile Pokemon?
-What kinds of scenarios/mind-games might the threat of a one-time uncheckable Pokemon impose?

-Explanation:
I thought this would be a fun concept to try to implement and test. It would be a little difficult given the moves, abilities, and items we have to work with, and perhaps even more difficult to make balanced, but I think it can be done. Of course, the inspiration for this comes from the notorious Flying-gem boosted Acrobatics combo, the main "upgrades" being that the boost can be triggered manually and that it will apply to non Flying-type moves.

 

[Mulan15262]

Name: One-Shot Only

General Description: The concept will be a speedy offensive Pokemon that can deal a respectable amount of damage normally, but is capable of a one-turn power-up (i.e. - like the boost from Gems, only manual and more generic) that gives it the power to muscle past would-be checks. The use of this power-up would be very strategic, and would require excellent prediction to make the most of (not blowing it into a resist/fodder.)

Justification: In Pokemon, the 12.5% damage dealt by a layer of Spikes can mean the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, a clean sweep and a lost win condition. In battles between balance/offense-oriented teams, matches are frequently decided by which side can keep their hazards up and pave the way for a speedy sweeper (e.g. - Talonflame, Excadrill, ect.) to clean up. This has made the game fairly one-dimensional, and I believe introducing the One-Shot Only concept would add another layer of prediction and long-term strategy to the game. It would also be an interesting break from the stale niches of "glass cannon sweeper" and "wall breaker" that most offensive Pokemon find themselves pigeonholed in.
Questions To Be Answered:
-How might the concept influence the importance of maintaining/setting up entry hazards?
-How might the Pokemon affect the prevalence of checks (e.g. - M. Venusaur) vs. dedicated walls (e.g. - Skarmory/Blissey) on teams?
-How will team templates change (e.g. - 3 Poke defensive core, 2 sweepers, 1 tank for some balanced teams) with the introduction of such a versatile Pokemon?
-What kinds of scenarios/mind-games might the threat of a one-time uncheckable Pokemon impose?

-Explanation:
I thought this would be a fun concept to try to implement and test. It would be a little difficult given the moves, abilities, and items we have to work with, and perhaps even more difficult to make balanced, but I think it can be done. Of course, the inspiration for this comes from the notorious Flying-gem boosted Acrobatics combo, the main "upgrades" being that the boost can be triggered manually and that it will apply to non Flying-type moves.

Is there a way to manually select a certain turn to give it a power up, instead of it activating upon a certain situation being encountered? If so, then it sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure that it is possible without using a custom move or ability.

 

[Pipotchi]

Name: One-Shot Only

Items like power herb or natural gift, last-chance abilities like blaze, and suicide moves like hyper beam or explosion seem like the main ways to make this concept- theres also the most obvious route of just using normal gem.

But Im just wondering if overall this concept already exists in OU?
Offensive Heatran uses power herb solarbeam as a 1-time lure to trap and kill water types with magma storm, azumarill can use natural gift to ohko ferrothorn once, same with talonflame for tyranitar. Mega Pidgeot can use Hyper Beam to break through Rotom-W once before (likely) dying. Sharpedo can use D-Bond to bring down its check. I'm wondering what the idea could bring that is new, plus it seems like their ability to break through checks would mean we are creating a pokemon which operates first and foremost as a lure for these checks, which defeats the point of a lure in the first place if thats its primary function. Alternatively if its not a lure for specific pokemon and the mon just has the potential to break through any check, it sounds like it could be centralizing and perhaps too powerful?

But Im pretty new to cap so feel free to disagree or explain more or something

 

[Cretacerus]

Name: Endgame Master

Description: A mon capable of dominating an endgame by a variety of differing means.

Justification: An endgame is nearly invaluable to the resolution of a match. Having a mon with a slight advantage during this endgame would be highly beneficial.

Questions to be Answered:
What is the true value of the endgame?
If there was a Pokemon specifically designed to rule the endgame, how would it fare?
How could this Pokemon be removed before it gains an advantage?
How could any Pokemon dominate an endgame?
Would the four move limit affect how this Pokemon functions?

Explanation: When a certain person takes over an endgame by having the advantage, it can be so satisfying to become that person. If there was a Pokemon that had a key advantage during as many of these situations as possible, it could become valuable. On the other hand, the fact that it would have only four moves would mean that it would have to choose how it would control the endgame. What I am trying to advocate is a Pokemon that could become deadly in the final moments of the game, but is not worth using beforehand, and has its limits on just how many mons it can beat in the one-on-one endgame via having only four moves.

As far as I see it, there are three different approaches of how a Pokemon could benefit from endgame situations.

1. It takes advantage of the opposing team being weakened, by reliably chipping off their remaining health. (Example Talonflame)
2. It takes advantage of being the last Pokemon on your team, by setting up multiple boosts without fear of phazing. (Example Mega Slowbro)
3. It takes advantage of the opponent's last Pokemon being unable to switch, by effectively putting it on a timer / trading KOs. (Example Perish Song)

While we could give CAP the unique ability to perform in all three of these categories, it should be noted that there are already various Pokemon in OU that can take up at least one of these roles (especially the first two), meaning they are rather well explored in the current metagame. I won't deny that there is always more to learn though, especially in a concept such as this one which can create lasting discussion on a certain aspect of the game, it might just not give us as many new insights compared to other concepts.

Most teams actually run multiple lategame sweepers as their "win conditions", ensuring that the sweeping requirements for at least one of them can be fulfilled as soon as possible against any team match-up. If we want to create an "Endgame Master", it will probably be capable of an exceptionally early lategame sweep against most teams, even in the playtest where everything would be prepared for it. This means that it would actually need good and reliable neutral coverage to perform, and can't really afford to be held back by a "four move limit", as proposed. Instead, low power and lack of supereffective coverage would be much more effective in preventing wallbreaking early game, and a lack of switch-in opportunities could discourage a pivoting role as well. In my opinion, the "questions to be answered" could be shaped a bit more to reflect this, along with focusing more on the unique attributes CAP would bring along as "Endgame Master" that we currently can't observe in the metagame.

What I really like about this concept is the amount of discussion it can generate by being relatively flexible with possible approaches, but still specific on the expected end result. The only issue I see with it is that it will be hard to find questions that can't be answered by looking into OU, which is why some examples of those in the "questions to be answered" section is very important here.

Name: One-Shot Only
General Description: The concept will be a speedy offensive Pokemon that can deal a respectable amount of damage normally, but is capable of a one-turn power-up (i.e. - like the boost from Gems, only manual and more generic) that gives it the power to muscle past would-be checks. The use of this power-up would be very strategic, and would require excellent prediction to make the most of (not blowing it into a resist/fodder.)

Justification: In Pokemon, the 12.5% damage dealt by a layer of Spikes can mean the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, a clean sweep and a lost win condition. In battles between balance/offense-oriented teams, matches are frequently decided by which side can keep their hazards up and pave the way for a speedy sweeper (e.g. - Talonflame, Excadrill, ect.) to clean up. This has made the game fairly one-dimensional, and I believe introducing the One-Shot Only concept would add another layer of prediction and long-term strategy to the game. It would also be an interesting break from the stale niches of "glass cannon sweeper" and "wall breaker" that most offensive Pokemon find themselves pigeonholed in.
Questions To Be Answered:
-How might the concept influence the importance of maintaining/setting up entry hazards?
-How might the Pokemon affect the prevalence of checks (e.g. - M. Venusaur) vs. dedicated walls (e.g. - Skarmory/Blissey) on teams?
-How will team templates change (e.g. - 3 Poke defensive core, 2 sweepers, 1 tank for some balanced teams) with the introduction of such a versatile Pokemon?
-What kinds of scenarios/mind-games might the threat of a one-time uncheckable Pokemon impose?

-Explanation:
I thought this would be a fun concept to try to implement and test. It would be a little difficult given the moves, abilities, and items we have to work with, and perhaps even more difficult to make balanced, but I think it can be done. Of course, the inspiration for this comes from the notorious Flying-gem boosted Acrobatics combo, the main "upgrades" being that the boost can be triggered manually and that it will apply to non Flying-type moves.

As with DangerousCacturne's concept, this might suffer from being limited to very specific approaches in the creation process. The only way I can see a one-turn power-up work is by either sacrificing a held item or the Pokemon itself during that turn, both of which come with significant drawbacks and are usually only considered out of a lack of better options. On the examples Pipotchi mentioned, the niche moves at least have the surprise value, but they can't be expected to work nearly as well if the opponent is prepared for them.

In order for this CAP to be truly viable, we would have to either make it either powerful enough to function competently without item and forth moveslot most of the match, or give it some additional benefit that makes up for loosing its item. Going for the latter is the more elegant way of fulfilling the concept, as it lowers the risk of having other sets completely outclass our "One-Shot Only" set. Unfortunately, it also gives us very few options to play with (mostly Unburden), which could make the creation process very linear. Again, I have no doubt that a Pokemon like this will be interesting and fun to have in the metagame, but I'm afraid it just won't generate too much discussion after the concept assessment has been completed.

 

[ginganinja]

What I am trying to advocate is a Pokemon that could become deadly in the final moments of the game, but is not worth using beforehand, and has its limits on just how many mons it can beat in the one-on-one endgame via having only four moves.

Trouble with this is that if you make a pokemon excel in this area, there isn't really ANY counterplay against it. Your opponent is just going to keep it back, wait for the end game and sweep. If your opponent has a counter for it, then obviously, the CAP doesn't fulfill its function at "dominating" the endgame because the opponent just...keeps it alive for your endgame. It sounds like a too binary concept.

The concept will be a speedy offensive Pokemon that can deal a respectable amount of damage normally, but is capable of a one-turn power-up (i.e. - like the boost from Gems, only manual and more generic) that gives it the power to muscle past would-be checks.

One turn power up items work better when they are "unexpected" or "uncommon", because then you can actually lure in and handle the would be checks. If you build a CAP around this strat, everyone knows its coming, which kinda...hurts it. I think you would also need to nerf its movepool to prevent it running another set that would "outclass" its concept due to reliability, which kinda worries me as you end up with a 1 trick pony thats easy to prepare for. I guess its got potential, but would need a little more discussion on it I think.

 

[Mulan15262]

One turn power up items work better when they are "unexpected" or "uncommon", because then you can actually lure in and handle the would be checks. If you build a CAP around this strat, everyone knows its coming, which kinda...hurts it. I think you would also need to nerf its movepool to prevent it running another set that would "outclass" its concept due to reliability, which kinda worries me as you end up with a 1 trick pony thats easy to prepare for. I guess its got potential, but would need a little more discussion on it I think.

That pokemon could have several different options of lure moves, so then the opponent wouldn't know which counters are beaten by it. The only problem with that is that the pokemon could easily end up being too OP as nothing beats it 100% of the time.

 

[AD Mega-Shedinja]

Name: Deceptive Pressure

General Description: This Pokemon is able to effectively bluff an item, move, ability, or even EV spread to make the opponent wary of sending in certain Pokemon when it switches in.

Justification: The current OU metagame has very little deception involved. It's more of a straight forward "I kill you and you kill me", and most strategy revolves around prediction. This Pokemon could potentially be a way to obscure predictions, which would add a new layer of strategy, as of you would need to be able to figure this Pokemon out to fully be able to make predictions about switches, moves, etc.

Questions To Be Answered:
- Would having this Pokemon be based around bluffing make it useless because people already expect it?
- To what extent can a single Pokemon bluff on its own?
- Is one Pokemon enough to add a new layer of strategy as stated in the Justification?
- Is bluffing really a viable strategy that can be abused?

Explanation: I just was disappointed that there weren't that many deceptive Pokemon out there. There's Zoroark, but that isn't seen too often in OU. That's about all there is to deception. Bronzong, to an extent, kind of has some bluffing going on with its abilities, but that really isn't enough. I think that this Pokemon could be very interesting in making since there are so many ways to bluff. You could bluff items (which is sometimes used in OU with choice items, but not really seen too often), moves (similar to the One Shot Only idea above), abilities (again, Bronzong is a prime example of ability deception), EV spread (this could be done by balancing EVs so that it sometimes will OHKO certain Pokemon or sometimes outspeed and be able to severely cripple or sometimes survive an attack or basically just have it so that you can never be certain just what will happen against this Pokemon), etc.

 

[Empress]

Name: Deceptive Pressure

General Description: This Pokemon is able to effectively bluff an item, move, ability, or even EV spread to make the opponent wary of sending in certain Pokemon when it switches in.

Justification: The current OU metagame has very little deception involved. It's more of a straight forward "I kill you and you kill me", and most strategy revolves around prediction. This Pokemon could potentially be a way to obscure predictions, which would add a new layer of strategy, as of you would need to be able to figure this Pokemon out to fully be able to make predictions about switches, moves, etc.

Questions To Be Answered:
- Would having this Pokemon be based around bluffing make it useless because people already expect it?
- To what extent can a single Pokemon bluff on its own?
- Is one Pokemon enough to add a new layer of strategy as stated in the Justification?
- Is bluffing really a viable strategy that can be abused?

Explanation: I just was disappointed that there weren't that many deceptive Pokemon out there. There's Zoroark, but that isn't seen too often in OU. That's about all there is to deception. Bronzong, to an extent, kind of has some bluffing going on with its abilities, but that really isn't enough. I think that this Pokemon could be very interesting in making since there are so many ways to bluff. You could bluff items (which is sometimes used in OU with choice items, but not really seen too often), moves (similar to the One Shot Only idea above), abilities (again, Bronzong is a prime example of ability deception), EV spread (this could be done by balancing EVs so that it sometimes will OHKO certain Pokemon or sometimes outspeed and be able to severely cripple or sometimes survive an attack or basically just have it so that you can never be certain just what will happen against this Pokemon), etc.

This concept has some similarities to whydoesntitworkkk's "One-shot Only." I like yours better though- it appears you are trying to make a concept built around lures. Also, unlike One-shot only, building this entire CAP around bluffing will probably not make it useless. Considering this mon will have plenty of standard sets (or maybe just one) and a lure or two to use, once the playtest rolls around, you'll still have to guess whether it's a lure or it's the standard. This one has potential because we have seen it work in the OU metagame before, and there are plenty of ways to go about it. I'm not QC, though, so time will tell if they like this one.

 

[ginganinja]

General Description: This Pokemon is able to effectively bluff an item, move, ability, or even EV spread to make the opponent wary of sending in certain Pokemon when it switches in.

Hey look, its Mega Charizard!

O.k but seriously this concept is prolly ok, tho it might need a little more refinement since bluffing X can be something pretty much every pokemon in the meta can do. Look at our most recent CAP which can bluff Water Veil in order to discourage the opponent from burning it. Look at like every suspect ever with a decent movepool that could bluff having move X to prevent you feeling secure in bringing in X mon.

So I'd certainly disagree with your assessment that "deception" doesn't exist in the OU metagame.

 

[Clone]

Name: hazard control

General Description: a Pokémon that is able to not only prevent the setup of entry hazards, but is also able to remove them reliably throughout the match

Justification: positive effect on the metagame — right now entry hazards are staples on every competitive team, and they are often easy to keep up either through offensive pressure or spin locking.

Questions To Be Answered: how will we make it so that this mon isn't over centralizing?
How do we make this mon fit well into the OU metagame?
How do we justify the usage of this mon over another rapid spinner?
How do we ensure that this mon is able to reliably perform its role consistently in the majority of matchups?
Do we focus on its offensive or defensive capabilities in regard to how it functions?

Explanation: many people have complained about hazards being over centralizing in every generation since their inception (bar like GSC), so having a mon that is able to remove them without fear from common ways of preventing removal (such as spinblocking or defiant) would benefit the metagame greatly, at least in my opinion. Ideally this mon would be immune to spikes and neutral or resistant to stealth Rock, such as a levitating mon.

Right now, OU lacks reliable ways of removing hazards. While we do have good spinners in Excadrill and Starmie, and defoggers such as lati@s and Zapdos, they all suffer from problems that affect how well they are able to remove hazards. Excadrill suffers from a poor speed tier outside of sand, and it loses to common stealth rock and spikes setters such as Lando t, Hippowdon, bulky chomp, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn, depending on if its LO or not. Starmie has a good speed tier, but offensive variants die very quickly, and defensive variants give free turns to powerful special attackers or mons that don't care about scald, and it straight up loses to mega Sab.

Many OU defoggers, such as Mandibuzz and Zapdos, suffer from a stealth rock weakness. Skarmory doesn't, but it would much rather dedicate a moveslot to a move such as spikes or whirlwind so it can perform well in other roles. The most used defoggers, the Lati twins, have the fewest flaws in my eyes, but they are still susceptible to Bisharp, and they can be pursuit trapped, which can either limit them to one Defog, or prevent it entirely. OU would definitely benefit from a hazard remover that is capable of the following:

• Defeating or forcing out common hazard setters
• Have workarounds to common answers to hazard removal
• Still perform some sort of role when it is not removing hazards, whether the role be offensive or defensive.

There are many ways to approach this, and this leaves a lot of room for creativity while still focusing on a clear-cut goal.

 

[Mova]

snip

Fidgit is kind of this, as it is a "Pure Utility" Pokemon. I'm not sure if we want another one. Also, you mentioned the CAP metagame, while CAPs are made for OU. But it's up to QC, and I'm not one of them. I'm just trying to help out.

 

[Empress]

Name: hazard control

General Description: a Pokémon that is able to not only prevent the setup of entry hazards, but is also able to remove them reliably throughout the match

Justification: positive effect on the metagame — right now entry hazards are staples on every competitive team, and they are often easy to keep up either through offensive pressure or spin locking.

Questions To Be Answered: how will we make it so that this mon isn't over centralizing?
How do we make this mon fit well into the cap metagame?
How do we justify the usage of this mon over another rapid spinner?
How do we ensure that this mon is able to reliably perform its role consistently in the majority of matchups?

Explanation: many people have complained about hazards being over centralizing in every generation since their inception (bar like GSC), so having a mon that is able to remove them without fear from common ways of preventing removal (such as spinblocking or defiant) would benefit the metagame greatly, at least in my opinion. Ideally this mon would be immune to spikes and neutral or resistant to stealth Rock, such as a levitating mon.

Edit: if someone made this idea already feel free to delete this.

I'm not too sure about this one. Despite the scant description, you have outlined a clearly defined role for this mon. Still, it feels as if this concept is pigeonholing us into just two options. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you phrased the explanation section makes me feel that the concept is achieved with the simple combinations of Defog + Unaware and Rapid Spin + Scrappy. It would be easy to fulfill but not particularly interesting IMO. Spinblockers are also not as good as they used to be; there are literally two relevant Ghost-types in OU and neither one of them is used primarily as a spinblocker. If you can give me some more description and perhaps some ideas beyond the ones I've outlined, I will be more inclined to support this. It does have potential; it just seems a bit "meh."

Also, even though we did Fidgit, which does fit this concept to a degree, that was gen 4 and this is gen 6, so don't worry about that too much. However, be aware that we're building this for OU and not CAP, just like Mova said.

EDIT: To clarify about Mega Sableye not spinblocking, I meant that it's not M-Sableye's primary role, not that it can't spinblock effectively.

 

[Clone]

I'm not too sure about this one. Despite the scant description, you have outlined a clearly defined role for this mon. Still, it feels as if this concept is pigeonholing us into just two options. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you phrased the explanation section makes me feel that the concept is achieved with the simple combinations of Defog + Unaware and Rapid Spin + Scrappy. It would be easy to fulfill but not particularly interesting IMO. Spinblockers are also not as good as they used to be; there are literally two relevant Ghost-types in OU and neither one of them is used primarily as a spinblocker. If you can give me some more description and perhaps some ideas beyond the ones I've outlined, I will be more inclined to support this. It does have potential; it just seems a bit "meh."

Also, even though we did Fidgit, which does fit this concept to a degree, that was gen 4 and this is gen 6, so don't worry about that too much. However, be aware that we're building this for OU and not CAP, just like Mova said.

No, I wasn't really going down the route of Defog + unaware or rapid spin + scrappy; there are many different ways of achieving 'remove hazards but don't fail'. What you said is a lazy approach – there are more ways to go about this, such as a fairy type rapid spinner that is capable of beating mega Sableye, while also handling most relevant ghost types in the tier through offensive or defensive prowess. On the flip side, a defogger that is capable of forcing Bisharp out, or at least not caring about its defiant boost (whether it be through typing or stats) is another route to take. There are many ways to go about this and given the state of OU right now (spikes stacking balance and stealth rock offense), a new hazard remover that is capable of removing both without losing to common prevention methods is something that would benefit the tier.

Re: spinblocking: mega Sab is a spinblocker and Gengar can spinblock in a pinch. You also have hazard setters that outright beat spinners in the long run so even if Excadrill can get off a spin, eventually Skarm will win out because it walls Exca to death and can spikes tack once its dead. Starmie fares a bit better but it has its own set of problems. Defensive variants give free turns to a bunch of mons and offensive variants die very, very quickly.

Integer Mova Fidgit is in no way what I'm proposing. That thing can't spin very reliably against mega Sab and lacks Defog. That, and it is very outdated in that it was created in gen 4. My proposal's purpose is to find a way to get rid of hazards reliably, as the current OU metagame lacks sufficient ways of doing this.

I'll change 'cap meta' to 'ou meta', but that won't rly change much other than wording. Will add a bit more to the post to give a more concise idea of what I'm proposing.