CAP 21 CAP 21 - Part 11 - Complete Movepool Poll 2

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HeaLnDeaL

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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Well then... this will be our last moves-related poll for this CAP! It's been a long stretch, but let's try to finish it out with a bang! This poll will be open for 24 hours.

This will be a Preferential Block Vote (PBV) (a form of Instant Runoff Voting which re-runs the counting, each time removing the previously top-ranked candidate in order to determine the 2nd most preferred, 3rd most preferred, etc.), the details of which are outlined here and here. This is a ranked vote: order does matter! You can upvote your favorites and downvote your least favorites. You may choose to rank as many or as few options as you like, but we encourage you to rank as many options as possible to ensure your preferences are taken into account.

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IMPORTANT: When voting, use only the submitter's name! The list of possible votes include:

Exclaimer
Dogfish44
sparktrain

Below are the complete submissions:

Exclaimer said:
Final Submission

Movepool loosely based on the movepools of two amorphous pokemon, Muk and Magcargo, who happen to share types, as well as several Ghost types.

TOTAL MOVES: 66 unique

repeats are underlined

Level Up

--Ancient Power
--Smog
--Pound
--Withdraw
--Rollout

-7-Withdraw
-12-Rollout
-14-Sludge
-19-Headbutt
-21-Toxic
-26-Rock Slide
-31-Metronome
-36-Venom Drench
-38-Transform
-43-Sludge Wave
-45-Block
-50-Gunk Shot
-55-Acid Armor
-62-Head Smash

TM
--Toxic
--Venoshock
--Hidden Power
--Hyper Beam
--Protect
--Rain Dance
--Safeguard
--Frustration
--Return
--Shadow Ball
--Double Team
--Reflect
--Sludge Wave
--Sludge Bomb
--Sandstorm
--Rock Tomb
--Facade
--Rest
--Attract
--Round
--Incinerate
--Giga Impact
--Rock Polish
--Rock Slide
--Poison Jab
--Dream Eater
--Swagger
--Sleep Talk
--U-turn
--Substitute
--Secret Power
--Confide

--Strength
--Rock Smash

Egg (Amorphous)

--Toxic Spikes -Cofagrigus, Weezing
--Wood Hammer -Trevenant
--Coil -Eelektross
--Imprison -Muk, Gardevoir, Banette, Mismagius, Spiritomb, Reuinclus, Chandelure, Cofagrigus, Trevenant
--Power Gem -Mismagius
--Curse -Gengar, Banette, Dusknoir, Spiritomb, Cofagrigus, Chandelure, Trevenant, Muk, Weezing, Mismagius, Magcargo, Swalot, Chimecho, Gastrodon, Garbodor, Stunfisk
--Belch -Muk, Weezing, Swalot, Garbodor
--Stockpile -Swalot, Drifblim, Garbodor, Weezing, Magcargo, Gastrodon
--Swallow -Swalot, Drifblim, Garbodor, Weezing, Magcargo, Gastrodon
--Spit Up -Swalot, Drifblim, Weezing, Magcargo, Gastrodon
--Water Sport -Jellicent

Tutor

--Low Kick
--Stealth Rock
--Trick
--Block
--Covet
--Zen Headbutt
--Gunk Shot
--Gastro Acid
--Water Pulse


Here's the rundown on various outlier moves and some general trends:

Ancient Power: Urns and other containers are known for being ancient artifacts.

Smog: When a container is closed and there are vile things inside, it's bound to produce some really noxious gases.

Sludge, Venom Drench, Sludge Wave, Water Sport, Gastro Acid: I have the impression that with Crucibelle's high speed, it's bound to cause some splash/wave action, either purposefully or unintentionally. These moves follow that idea.

Withdraw: I based this on what Yilx has said before about Crucibelle being shy and wanting to retreat inside of its urn. I prefer this over Harden, as it already has a hard exterior urn.

Rollout: Place Crucibelle on its side and watch it roll.

Headbutt, Zen Headbutt: Crucibelle's lid hat looks very painful, so I added headbutt moves. Also, most pokemon with Head Smash get other head-based moves.

Metronome, Transform: Because of Crucibelle's nature as a gelatinous liquid, I gave it some moves that can take advantage of this. Metronome doesn't really need much flavor reasoning because anything with fingers can use it, somehow, and Crucibelle can make its own fingers.

Block, Imprison: This is loosely based off of Pandora's Box and its ability to contain things much larger than itself. Adds to the mystical vibe of Crucibelle.

Rain Dance, Water Sport, Water Pulse: I have the impression that Crucibelle would be able to carry water, and containers in ancient times were mostly used as water containing vessels.

Safeguard: Along with Reflect, this allows it to use its mystic powers for protecting its teammates.

Shadow Ball, Dream Eater, Curse: These add to the mystical aura of Crucibelle, further strengthening the ties it has with Ghost types. This justifies the presence of Wood Hammer, which I felt was necessary because of how outlandish it is compared to the rest of the movepool.

Incinerate: I took a lot of creative liberty with this one. It's based off of the concept of greek fire, a naval weapon used in ancient times to set other boats alight. It's been theorized to have been contained/thrown in pots.

Belch: It makes a lot more sense when paired with Stockpile and Spit Up, and it's a nice physical Poison move that this mon has few of.
Click to expand...
Dogfish44 said:
Final Submission

We don't know that much about Crucibelle - but we know that it is shy as heck. We can also say, purely from looking at it (And Magic Guard), that it's slightly mystical. I've themed Crucibelle around this - giving her moves which allow her to keep her distance and stun foes, as well as area control.

Crucibelle would likely be a common site in abandoned villages and the like. Not that Crucibelle would have anything to do with the village being abandoned, but Crucibelle are shy enough that they probably don't notice the village being abandoned to begin with. Not that they're bothered, either.

HS Head Smash
- Astonish
- Endure
- Protect
- Withdraw
5 Rock Throw
7 Toxic
10 Fake Tears
14 Confusion
16 Confuse Ray
19 Toxic Spikes
23 Smack Down
25 Reflect
28 Sludge
32 Acid Armor
36 Rock Slide
40 Psybeam
44 Hex
48 Torment
52 Rock Blast
56 Gunk Shot
60 Explosion
(LU Pattern, starting from 5, was +2/+3/+4 up to Acid Armour, then +4s onward)

Early on, Crucibelle are very cautious, very nervous. They learn quickly how to hide themselves and survive attacks inside their pot. As they grow, they learn how to manipulate and trick others into not attacking them, as well as how to keep threats at bay. Eventually their tricks become meaner and more damaging.

Barirng Astonish, every move Crucibelle uses is non-contact. Crucibelle is much happier hiding in her pot than being that close to people. Heck, even from Level 5, Crucibelle will trade their ability to Astonish for the ability to throw Rocks at people. Because people should leave them alone.

Head Smash is Heart Scale'd here - if only because with that giant Helmet it doesn't make sense for it to only learn that through breeding.
Amorphous/Mineral
Coil (Eelektross)
Defense Curl (Sudowoodo)
Rollout (Sudowoodo)
Wood Hammer (Sudowoodo)

As per usual Egg moves contain moves which don't generally fit the 'personality' of the mon, I don't feel would work well as HS moves, but can't be gained through TM or Tutor. I don't think that wild Crucibelle would generally want to spend a lot of time wrapping up on itself as in Coil and Defense Curl, especially when she already has Withdraw, and she's not the type to often make big contact strikes as with Wood Hammer.

Rollout is on there because Crucibelle could literally curl up into it's pot and roll into a target. Interestingly, of the 16 mons who get Rollout by Egg, 11 also get Defense Curl by Egg, which is partly why Crucibelle has it.
TM06 Toxic (R)
TM09 Venoshock
TM10 Hidden Power
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect (R)
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM23 Smack Down (R)
TM27 Return
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect (R)
TM34 Sludge Wave
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment (R)
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM63 Embargo
TM64 Explosion (R)
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM69 Rock Polish
TM71 Stone Edge
TM80 Rock Slide (R)
TM83 Infestation
TM84 Poison Jab
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Secret Power
HM06 Rock Smash

Crucibelle gets all of the TMs you'd expect your average Poison and Rock mon to get. Psychic and Shadow Ball complete the theming from the LU movepool. Grass Knot is in here both because a lone Wood Hammer is weird, and because Crucibelle would be the type to trip a foe up before they ever reach her.
Snore
Low Kick
Iron Head
Zen Headbutt
Gunk Shot (R)
Block
Skill Swap
Helping Hand
Trick
Snatch
Magic Room
Wonder Room
Stealth Rock
Gravity

Quite a lot of moves here. The two headbutts are here for obvious reasons, especially since we have Head Smash. Block is included because of it's popularity within Rock types. Gravity is also included - although Rock Types learning gravity comprise of only 10 of the 55 Rock-Types, Crucibelle's mystical theming (Similar to Carbink and Lunatone) makes it ideal to learn Gravity. I've also added a couple of other sort of "area" moves, playing into the fact that Crucibelle likes to hide and control if, when, and where she fights.

Notably I've excluded Gastro Acid. Compared to the other Poison-Types which learn Gastro Acid, Crucibelle's Muk-like body felt out of place.
Acid Armor
Astonish
Attract
Block
Coil
Confuse Ray
Confusion
Defense Curl
Double Team
Embargo
Endure
Explosion
Facade
Fake Tears
Frustration
Giga Impact
Grass Knot
Gravity
Gunk Shot
Head Smash
Helping Hand
Hex
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Infestation
Iron Head
Low Kick
Magic Room
Payback
Poison Jab
Protect
Psybeam
Psychic
Reflect
Rest
Return
Rock Blast
Rock Polish
Rock Slide
Rock Smash
Rock Throw
Rock Tomb
Rollout
Round
Safeguard
Sandstorm
Secret Power
Shadow Ball
Skill Swap
Sleep Talk
Sludge
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Smack Down
Snatch
Snore
Stealth Rock
Stone Edge
Substitute
Swagger
Torment
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Trick
U-turn
Venoshock
Withdraw
Wonder Room
Wood Hammer
Zen Headbutt
Total Moves: 70
Restricted Moves: 33

Physical Attacking RMs (15):
Explosion
Facade
Frustration
Gunk Shot
Head Smash
Iron Head
Low Kick
Payback
Poison Jab
Return
Rock Blast
Rock Slide
Stone Edge
Wood Hammer
Zen Headbutt

Special Attacking RMs (6):
Grass Knot
Hidden Power
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave

Non-Attacking RMs (12):
Acid Armor
Coil
Protect
Reflect
Rest
Rock Polish
Sleep Talk
Stealth Rock
Substitute
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Trick

Move-Move Misses & Rationale:
We do miss a few. Better to address them, since I feel missing them is completely justified in these cases.

We have Confusion without Flash and Psych Up. My justification here is that of the Poison-Type lines which learn Confusion (Venonat+, Dustox, NidoranM+), only the former learns Flash, whilst none of them pick up Psych Up.

Because of Stone Edge, theoretically Strength should be a thing. However, the presence of Rock-Type Pokemon like Diancie, Carbink, Solrock, and Lunatone is enough, especially with Crucibelle's body structure being so fluid. I'll also note Archeops as an example of a case where even a higher ATK stat doesn't imply Strength ^^'

Finally, Torment usually implies Taunt. However, Taunt would lead to things attacking Crucibelle... which I imagine Crucibelle would not be fond of, given her trait of shyness. Also, Taunt is banned.
Click to expand...
sparktrain said:
Final Submission
H - Toxic Spikes
H - Transform
1 - Tackle
1 - Defense Curl
5 - Rock Throw
8 - Mud Slap
12 - Sludge
18 - Headbutt
21 - Mud Bomb
25 - Rollout
29 - Poison Jab
32 - Amnesia
36 - Rock Slide
40 - Sludge Bomb
43 - Acid Armor
47 - Coil
51 - Double Edge
57 - Gunk Shot
64 - Head Smash
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Venoshock
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM23 Smack Down
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect
TM34 Sludge Wave
TM36 Sludge Bomb (R)
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM56 Fling
TM64 Explosion
TM68 Giga Impact
TM69 Rock Polish
TM71 Stone Edge
TM74 Gyro Ball
TM77 Psych Up
TM80 Rock Slide (R)
TM84 Poison Jab (R)
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Secret Power
TM96 Nature Power
TM100 Confide
HM06 Rock Smash
Gunk Shot (R)
Iron Head
Low Kick
Role Play
Seed Bomb
Snore
Stealth Rock
Trick
Zen Headbutt
Ancient Power - Magcargo
Bullet Seed - Gourgeist
Iron Head (R) - Ferrothorn
Metronome - Dusknoir
Mud Sport - Stunfisk
Rock Blast - Golem
Seed Bomb (R) - Gourgeist
Self-Destruct - Weezing
Stealth Rock (R) - Carbink
Wood Hammer - Trevenant
Zen Headbutt (R) - Reuniclus
Acid Armor
Amnesia
Ancient Power
Attract
Bullet Seed
Coil
Confide
Defense Curl
Double Edge
Double Team
Explosion
Facade
Fling
Frustration
Giga Impact
Gunk Shot
Gyro Ball
Head Smash
Headbutt
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Iron Head
Light Screen
Low Kick
Metronome
Mud Bomb
Mud Slap
Mud Sport
Nature Power
Poison Jab
Protect
Psych Up
Rain Dance
Reflect
Rest
Return
Rock Blast
Rock Polish
Rock Slide
Rock Smash
Rock Throw
Rock Tomb
Role Play
Rollout
Round
Sandstorm
Secret Power
Seed Bomb
Self-Destruct
Sleep Talk
Sludge
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Smack Down
Snore
Stealth Rock
Stone Edge
Substitute
Sunny Day
Swagger
Tackle
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Transform
Trick
U-turn
Venoshock
Wood Hammer
Zen Headbutt
Bold = required
(R) = repeat

Alright, here's the rundown. For Crucibelle's level up movepool, it starts out with Tackle and Defense Curl as its basic method of attack and defense. Outside of this, it doesn't move around a whole lot at first, and the first skill it gains after this is to throw stuff from the safety of its pot, such as with Rock Throw, Mud Slap, and Sludge. Eventually, Crucibelle starts to use its hard helmet as a weapon as seen with Headbutt, and it become more confident in its fighting capabilities outside of the pot as a result, eventually learning moves like Poison Jab. Crucibelle becomes more powerful and skilled with the projectiles it launches from its pot as well, as seen with Sludge Bomb and Mud Bomb. In addition to its attacking capabilities, Crucibelle gains the ability to fortify its own defenses with Amnesia and Acid Armor, making it and its pot even sturdier and safer. Crucibelle can even learn Coil once it gains enough experience, allowing it to concentrate and simultaneously boost its offensive and defensive prowess. This concentration allows it to become more reckless when it leaves the pot and can take advantage of dangerous moves such as Double Edge, Gunk Shot, and finally, the deadly Head Smash.

Crucibelle also gets Toxic Spikes and Transform via Heart Scale. Toxic Spikes provide it with another item it can throw and scatter around the foe, while Transform plays on its gooey appearance, allowing it to leave the pot completely and morph its body to match that of its foe.

The TM/HM moves are fairly straightforward given Crucibelle's Rock / Poison typing, as it receives Stone Edge, Rock Polish, Poison Jab, Venoshock, and several other moves that are commonly seen on Rock- and Poison-types. Smack Down and Fling focus on its throwing ability. Psych Up focuses more on its ability to copy the foe as seen with Transform earlier.

The tutor moves focus on a few of Crucibelle's special skills, such as using its helmet as a weapon, as seen with Iron Head and Zen Headbutt. Role Play focuses on its copying abilities once again, and moves like Trick and Low Kick give it some sneaky things to do when it's outside the pot, switching items and tripping large opponents. Seed Bomb goes hand in hand with other bomb moves it can learn like Sludge Bomb and Mud Bomb, and gives it a weaker, recoil-free Grass-type coverage option to use in place of Wood Hammer.

The egg moves do contain a fair number of repeats from the tutor moves, as they make enough sense flavor-wise to do so. Ancient Power is a fairly common egg move for many Rock-types. Mud Sport is a sensible option given its other mud-themed level up moves. Bullet Seed and Rock Blast play off of its other projectile moves. Metronome because hey, it actually has fingers this time! Self-Destruct lets it go boom as seen with Explosion earlier, and Wood Hammer... well, it's required. Maybe it's hiding a tree trunk in its pot.
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This poll will last 24 hours.

------

CAP21 so far:

Name: Crucibelle
Typing: Rock/Poison
Abilities:
Base - Regenerator / Mold Breaker
Mega - Magic Guard
Stats:
106/105/65/75/85/104 > 106/135/75/85/125/114

Art Design:

Base Forme
le5ET.jpg


Mega Evolution
lq7IE.jpg




Leadership Team:

jas61292 - Topic Leader
imanalt - Typing Leader
DetroitLolcat - Abilities Leader
sparktrain (aka nerd... hehehe I quoted him and he was also called fat) - Stats Leader
HeaLnDeaL (aka loser) - Movepool Leader

Concept:
Name: Typing Underdog

General Description: A Pokémon which utilizes an undervalued typing to its full potential, by playing towards both its strengths and weaknesses.

Justification: Each typing possesses a unique set of characteristics, causing all of them to perform very differently in various aspects of battle. However, not every typing has been granted the opportunity to display this potential, being forced into suboptimal roles by virtue of stats, ability and movepool, and therefore often being labelled as “bad”.
This concept aims to do a detailed analysis on the primary function of such a typing along with its potentially unexplored capabilities, by creating a Pokémon that that emphasizes the typing’s most prominent traits and utilizes them effectively.
This approach will not only allow us to widen our understanding on the unique niche and preferred playstyle of the typing, but will also give us additional insight on the mechanics that lead to success and failure of the typing when comparing CAP to the wielders in the lower tiers.

Questions to be answered:
  • What are the most important traits the Pokémon gains from the chosen typing, both positive and negative?
  • Is quality or quantity of weaknesses/resistances/immunities more relevant to the chosen typing? What does this mean for the way it is played?
  • How significant is the niche provided by the typing in OU? Are there any striking flaws in the typing that can’t be played around and prevent the Pokémon from performing reliably?
  • How reliant is the typing on stats, ability and movepool in order to succeed in OU?
  • Are the unique characteristics granted by the typing enough to set the Pokemon apart, or does it face strong competition for its role from Pokémon of other types?
  • Is there any distinct playstyle that suits the chosen typing the best? Or can the same typing be utilized in an entirely different approach to similar success?
  • How important is a type’s versatility for its overall success?
  • Is a single Pokémon capable of portraying most relevant aspects of the entire type?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Sparktrain
Dogfish44

Mod edit: Fixed spelling of sparktrain
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dogfish44

The others both have 11 Egg moves and Transform. I usually try to pick a second choice, but...ugh I can't vote for the lesser of two evils here.
 
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