• Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!

CAP 21 CAP 21 - Part 4 - Mega Ability Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
The problem with using Water Absorb to counter Manaphy is that it runs coverage moves. Sure, you switch in and get hit by +3 Scald and Water Absorb activates, but then what's stopping Manaphy from running Psychic? It'll be a weaker hit than Scald, but +3 Psychic will still be stupid powerful. I fear that Water Absorb may not be enough to hold up against Manaphy. In this regard, we either need to use brute force to get past Manaphy or use some other defensive ability.
 
Last edited:
Psychic is only 75% of the power of Scald as you already noticed and it has a much less delibitating side effect. Also, we don't have to worry about Manaphy attempting to set up Rain to make it harder to wall (fun fact: +3 Scald in sand is weaker vs. Rock-Types than +0 Scald in rain). The next best thing we have to check Manaphy defensively is Unaware, which also helps us against Calm Mind Clefable and SD Talonflame.

While I think Adaptability is one of the strongest abilities we can choose, it's not exactly beneficial to the concept as it benefits literally every offensive Pokémon, with only dual-types getting more mileage out of it than monotyped Pokémon.
 
Assuming +3 Scald does exactly 100% to CAP21 (which would be a reason to pick Water Absorb), +3 Psychic will do about 75%, which even with Regenerator and Water Absorb, is very shaky to be a check/counter of Manaphy, especially since it probably will do more damage than that.

Sand Stream would help, but I'm not sure if it will be enough to withstand Manaphy. An brute offensive ability like Rock Head or Sheer Force could break past it, but then CAP21 would be able to break through a lot of other things too...

Edit: sorry the main point of this is that Water Absorb does not necessarily mean that CAP21 can handle Manaphy
 
Last edited:
Ummm why are we even calcing for a +3 Manaphy? We want CAP to threaten Manaphy, as in, pressure it enough offensively that it doesn't have a free switch when CAP is out. If we're trying to make a mon that can switch into and counter the most dangerous balance breaker in the whole game at +3 while being weak to its STAB and one of its main coverage moves, then something has gone horribly wrong because, unless we pick Unaware, what we just made is the best special wall in the game.

CAP should have no business switching into Manaphy as is, let alone +3 Manaphy.
 
Just a quick question: when was it decided that the CAP had to counter Water-types? As far as I'm aware of, we simply have to threaten them. That can be offensively as well, in that they cannot switch in safely against the CAP. It may be semantics to actual tiers, but the wording is pretty important for CAP since everything is based on an interpretation of a concept.

The point about Rock Head being more specific to focusing on the benefits of our typing (one of them at least) does sort of supersede Adaptability in fulfilling the concept, so yeah, I can get behind that. Still, while Adaptability is more generally good, I like the fact that it gives us more leeway with the stat spread, since you don't have to invest as much in the offensive stats to get certain KOs anymore. This leeway is pretty important since we all acknowledge that this type is pretty niche at best, and the CAP will need all the help we can give it to be usable.
 
On Rock Head versus Adaptability: While Adaptability may be more generic, I still find myself preferring it over Rock Head as it would boost all of the CAP's STAB moves and not just one, giving us a little more flexibility in the later stages. Rock Head just benefits one STAB move, and I'm not sure if the CAP would really get any use out of the other moves benefited by the ability (there's Wild Charge, but neutral STAB Gunk Shot is the same BP as SE Wild Charge). Plus, as mentioned it would essentially force the CAP to be a physical attacker (although I support going that route anyway as the physical moves of the CAP's type are much stronger than the special moves).

On the other hand, Head Smash is a ridiculously powerful move and being able to use it without the nasty recoil would be a massive boon; just look at what it did for Tyrantrum. Also, it still accomplishes the purpose of not letting the CAP be setup bait or otherwise let things switch in that shouldn't be switching in. While I may prefer Adaptability, I wouldn't object to Rock Head either.
 
All right, discussion is starting to stagnate so I'm going to post some opinions and questions to keep the ball rolling.

I like this Adaptability vs. Rock Head debate, as both are offensive abilities that would increase this Pokemon's damage output. I was originally a bigger fan of Adaptability, but the arguments in favor of Rock Head have won me over. Rock Head will particularly give us tremendous STAB in Head Smash, which plays to the strength of being a Rock-type. This fulfills the concept better than Adaptability, which just gives us more power on our STAB moves. This isn't to completely discount Adaptability, as there are effects Adaptability has that Rock Head does not. Namely, the boost to Poison-type moves. Do we need moves like Gunk Shot to have an extra 33% power? Right now, I recognize that Rock Head and Adaptability have similar effects on our Pokemon. However, it seems that Rock Head increases our Pokemon's power in a more pro-concept way (although that's not to call Adaptability anti-concept). I'd like to see fans of Adaptability explain why it's more necessary or more pro-concept than Rock Head.

I agree with some current sentiments towards Compound Eyes. It's just not enough to justify Mega Evolving. People already use Gunk Shot, Stone Edge, and Head Smash over the alternatives because the power is just too high to say no to. If you think that we need the accuracy buff regardless, or that there are other moves that we could take advantage of with Compound Eyes, go ahead and prove it to me. But right now, I don't see it as an Ability worth using over some other suggested here. I feel similarly toward Rattled. CAP21 doesn't need a super-powerful Ability, but it's going to require something more than an ultra-niche Speed boost.

However, I'd like to see some more discussion on some of the other Abilities posted so far. Sand Stream's gotten a positive reception, as is keeping Regenerator. Arena Trap's also an interesting option, but I'd like to hear why Arena Trap is specifically pro-concept rather than "generically (really) good". I'm also not entirely convinced by Unaware. CAP21 is still not likely to beat Manaphy or Keldeo even with Unaware, so why is it worth using over something that will beat them like Water Absorb. Speaking of Water Absorb, what happened to the Abilities that were suggested as the Primary Ability but haven't been touched on yet here? I've been asking a lot of questions, so I'll consolidate what I'd like to hear now.

1. To fans of Adaptability, why is it more pro-concept or more necessary than Rock Head?

2. To fans of Rattled or Compound Eyes, why are the more niche boosts from those abilities enough to justify Mega Evolving?

3. To fans of Arena Trap, why is it pro-concept rather than just generically good?

4. Are Abilities suggested in the previous stage, such as Water Absorb, Water Veil, Drought, worth using on the Mega forme? Why?

5. Continue discussing the role of the Mega Ability and suggesting specific Abilities for our Pokemon to have.

I'd like to wrap this stage up in 48 hours or so, but that's not a hard deadline yet. Discuss away!
 
I'd actually like the idea of having Rock Head. It can help us abuse Head Smash, Double-Edge, and maybe Wild Charge. Recoil can be sorta handled by Regenerator if you use it's recoil moves before Mega, but usually they Mega Evolve immediately after switching in. If we were like Mega Audino, we can take advantage of Regenerator and Mega Evolve later.
 
1. To fans of Adaptability, why is it more pro-concept or more necessary than Rock Head?

I actually like both abilities about the same, the recent points for Rock Head have just made me more accepting of it than I initially was. Rock Head is slightly more pro-concept in that it allows the CAP to use a possible definitive attack for one of its types, at the cost of only really emphasizing Rock. The other recoil moves are a nice bonus, but have nothing to do with the concept. Meanwhile, Adaptability may be a generic "good" ability, but it doesn't change the fact that it puts emphasis on BOTH of the CAP's typing. The main reason Adaptability is still very pro-concept is that it makes using BOTH of its STAB moves an ideal decision, while with Rock Head, people may easily drop Poison STAB in favor of coverage moves (especially if it has other recoil moves as the community may plausibly assume). Making the stat spread stage a bit easier on the community is just the icing on the cake.

4. Are Abilities suggested in the previous stage, such as Water Absorb, Water Veil, Drought, worth using on the Mega forme? Why?

The ones worth using were already brought up. Water Absorb was suggested to give the CAP an easier time switching in to Mega Evolve, but the CAP shouldn't just remove one of its weaknesses permanently. Water Veil and Natural Cure can remove status, but neither are really worth giving up Regenerator for, despite the 100+ bst boost (hell, just adding a Life Orb would make up for the weaker power, and Regen itself makes up for the weaker bulk). Drought was ok for the base form because it helped weaken Water-types and support certain teams while balancing itself by worsening its match-up with Fire-types. The Mega form really wouldn't make the most of the ability and, as stated before, has a redundant typing with most Sun teams.
 
While I liked Sand Stream for the base, I don't for the mega. It doesn't do nearly enough on the Mega. It was nice on the base just for that initial 4 turns, as the best option available imo (though regenerator isn't bad).

Instead, I think the best way to play up the strengths of Rock and Poison is their reliability in checking pretty much all Fairy and Fire types. Only Heatran really does this, and not even really all that well. It seems to me the best, and maybe only, way to play up Rock/Poison's limited strengths is to ensure that it can actually check the Fairy/Fire types. This can't happen if the CAP's moves miss. Compoundeyes it is.

As to if the ability is enough, there will be plenty of other reasons to justify mega evolving, namely the extra 100 BST, which if placed well, especially if it's in speed, could be very gamechanging.

Adaptability (like water-absorbing abilities) is in fact entirely anti-concept. It entirely takes away the weakness of Rock/Poison, which is that it is walled by Steel (and weak to Water).

I could also support Arena Trap, which makes the CAP into a hard stop to all Clefable, and possibly to Charizard-X, Altaria, Gardevoir, and more (depending on stats), which is a totally valuable niche that emphasizes its typing advantages. But as well know, trapping could get out of hand very easily. I think if any typing can pull it off though, this one can as it has pretty limited Super Effective coverage overall, so the carnage can maybe be contained.
 
Something that I believe is worth putting out there right now: the idea behind Rock Head would be to make Head Smash viable by removing its nasty recoil, as well as some potential coverage options like Wild Charge, Flare Blitz, et al. However, there's another ability that allows CAP to use these moves without recoil, only better: Magic Guard. Obviously, this is an insanely powerful ability on most mons that have it, mostly because it allows them to make full use of their items (recoil-less Life Orb/guaranteed Focus Sash). However, could this ability be balanced on a mon that cannot hold an item?

Not sure. Someone please discuss this further haha
 
1. To fans of Adaptability, why is it more pro-concept or more necessary than Rock Head?(and Sheer Force)
Adaptability is more pro-concept compared to Rock Head and Sheer Force as it literally takes the strengths of both our typings and amplifies them, whereas the other two takes the offensive strengths of one typing and render the other typing questionable, which I think is undesirable. Just like how Rock Head doesn't benefit Poison STABs at all; Stone Edge and Power Gem do not get a boost with Sheer Force. As Poison and Rock do have rather redundant neutral coverage together, there is a good chance that this would result in only a single STAB being run, with several non-STAB for better coverage. Adaptability does not face this problem as neutral coverage moves are practically as strong as resisted STAB moves, allowing you to easily just pick up both STABs.

Adaptability is also the only ability out of the 3 which boosts Power Gem, which means it is the only one which does not practically confine us to a physical inclination. On the special side, Power Gem is at a respectable 106 BP; Sludge Wave is basically a nuke at 126 BP with no drawbacks; Sludge Bomb at 120 if you want 20% more Poison rate; Venoshock is at a beastly 172 BP with TSpikes or simply after Sludge Bomb spam. On the physical side, Adaptability pushes Stone Edge to Draco Meteor levels while making Gunk Shot marginally more powerful than Head Smash. It also makes utility moves like Rock Tomb, Acid Spray and Clear Smog more powerful, which the other 2 abilities do not affect at all.
Bughouse said:
Adaptability (like water-absorbing abilities) is in fact entirely anti-concept. It entirely takes away the weakness of Rock/Poison, which is that it is walled by Steel (and weak to Water).
Click to expand...
I find it very hard not to disagree with this. Sure Adaptability makes CAP 21 have stronger STABs, but at the end of the day it is still just a 1.33x boost, which is practically a Life Orb boost. It is certainly going to be slightly harder to wall, but unless CAP 21 gets an astronomical boost in its offensive stats upon Mega, it is not going to be that much harder to wall by Steels compared to Life Orb base.

4. Are Abilities suggested in the previous stage, such as Water Absorb, Water Veil, Drought, worth using on the Mega forme? Why?
I don't see how Water Veil is ever worth it as an ability over Regenerator to Mega evolve into, even considering the +100 BST. If I really want to make my Mega immune to burn, I will just drop a Lum Berry and keep Regenerator on base, and Guts/Flare Boost would be better anyway. Mega Evolving for a Water immunity is not too bad, but imo Storm Drain takes the cake from Water Absorb, in that it will have countersweeping potential by Mega Evolving. Irregardless, it is still too conditional, and I would rather just pair base with Ferrothorn or Seismitoad or something to deal with Waters. Drought on Mega is inferior to having it on base form imo, as it it loses a niche on being sun support.

5. Continue discussing the role of the Mega Ability and suggesting specific Abilities for our Pokemon to have.
I still believe an offensive ability is the way to go. Regenerator is basically the epitome of defensive abilities, which render quite a good number of abilities unworthy to Mega Evolve into. This also makes Sand Stream for Mega much less desirable since AV base pretty much does the same job unless the +100 stat is amazingly distributed. Regenerator as base ability also means simply slapping an Life Orb would outdo practically every conditional offensive ability. That taken into account, I would say the there are only a few other offensive abilities that are worth mentioning. Hustle can work, but it means no reliable physical moves unless it comes with Coil or Hone Claws. Moxie is another ability that might work. However, both these abilities have the same problem as RH/SF.
 
Last edited:
So Steel-types (mostly M-Scizor and Heatran) don't absolutely counter the CAP with Adaptability Rock moves (or Rock Head Head Smash I guess) anymore: what's anti-concept about that? They still likely have an easier time handling the CAP because they are still immune to its Poison STAB: most of the popular Steel-types also carry a Steel STAB or Ground move too (except for Skarmory iirc). There's also the fact that nothing in the threats discussion stated that the CAP couldn't hit them hard, just that Steel-types threaten it. Most Steel-types will still easily threaten it, even with scary Rock moves. We don't know its stats, so we don't know how much will be invested in power over bulk either.

That said, I wouldn't say that Adaptability is MORE pro-concept than Rock Head, just that it is pro-concept.
 
3. To fans of Arena Trap, why is it pro-concept rather than just generically good?

Simply put, we're trying to reducing the number of instances where our typing wrecks us, without negating the issues of our typing. That's pretty much been the general consensus since the beginning. In that regard, we really don't have any reasonable way to do the former, as our STAB has numerous gaping coverage holes in it. In fact, Fighting is the only type that resists Rock that doesn't also resist Poison, if not be outright immune to it. Our Pokemon is pretty much tuned to only take chip damage every time it comes in from resisted attacks, but given how easy a Rock/Poison is to switch into this format, we're probably only going to be chipping with our own attacks. Further, many of the Pokemon that want to switch into us can either set up on us (like Lando-T) or heal off the chip (like Hippowdon) In order for our typing to be successful, we need to stop the opponent from winning the switching game. The easiest way to keep the opponent from winning the switching game is to limit their ability to play it. It stops fights from just turning into resisted chip against resisted chip. Instead, we can start pushing for advantage against our non-aerial prey.
 
Want to throw a third ability into the Rock Head / Adaptability argument, Sheer Force:

BIG DISCLAIMER: Inclusion of moves in list in no way speculates CAP getting them, informational ONLY.

Post STAB + Ability BP (Effect):
Adaptability:
Head Smash 300 (50% Recoil)
Gunk Shot 240 (30% Poison)
Stone Edge 200
Poison Jab 160
Rock Slide 150 (30% Flinch)

Sludge Wave 190 (10% Poison)
Power Gem 160

No Effect on SE Coverage.

Rock Head:
Head Smash 225 (No Recoil)
Gunk Shot 180 (30% Poison)
Stone Edge 150
Poison Jab 120
Rock Slide 112.5 (30% Flinch)

Sludge Wave 142.5 (10% Poison)
Power Gem 120

SE Coverage: (Drawback-Free, 100 Acc)
(Light of Ruin lol 280)
Wood Hammer/Flare Blitz/Brave Bird 240
Wild Charge 180
Submission (lol) 160

Sheer Force:
Head Smash 225 (50% Recoil)
Gunk Shot 234 (No Addt'l Effect)
Poison Jab 156 (No Addt'l Effect)
Stone Edge 150
Rock Slide 146.25 (No Add'tl Effect)

Sludge Wave 185.25 (No Addt'l Effect)
Power Gem 120

SE Coverage:
Flare Blitz / Focus Blast 312
Play Rough / Earth Power 234
Crunch 208
E-Punches 195

No other effects, save Special Moves (Fire Blast & Co. at 286)

I'm generally in favor of Rock Head, because it allows us to keep the Base Form with a reasonable Base Atk stat that can still break through Manaphy and friends, while the Mega can focus on ripping holes in opponents once it Mega-evolves. It can't really be overstated how crazy 50% recoil is on a move. Even with Regenerator you are going to saw through a ton of your own HP for the trade-off. Enter the Mega-Evolution, where that nasty side-effect goes away and even Landorus doesn't want to switch in too often.

Of the remaining two (after I introduced Sheer Force), I prefer Sheer Force because the arc of this CAP seems to be 3 Attack Coverage + Utility Move. Sheer Force provides a significant amount of flexibility here that Adaptability doesn't. Sheer Force also brings Gunk Shot a little past parity with non-Adaptability Head Smash. Remember, we want our CAP to be worth the Mega slot, and I think giving it an ability that enhances its coverage options along with some portion of its main STAB is the way to go. Rock Head and Sheer Force both do that, whereas Adaptability's powerful but more one-dimensional boosts do not.
 
Please consider Prankster.

Poison types are known for having many useful support-type moves, the most interesting for this CAP being: Toxic, Haze, and Gastro Acid. Rock types, while not as defensive, offer two useful moves: Stealth Rock and Sandstorm. These moves, when combined with Prankster, allows the CAP Pokemon to effectively deal with many of the Pokemon we want to threaten.
 
Certain Talon variations carry taunt, while Clef are often Magic Guard, so while Prankster has great utility, it perhaps is not the best choice for this CAP.

We could run a set such as SR, (support move), Rock STAB, Poison STAB, I suppose, but it feels as if Prankster is being wasted both because we're sort of not really making full use of it, and also because it prevents us from having a more offensive ability. This, in turn, means we have problems threatening some stuff we want to threaten without having to extort to high offensive stats later in the process.

On the other hand, Gastro Acid annoys a lot of Pokemon, including Gale Wings Talonflame, while Haze is useful against the same Pokemon we wanted to use Unaware against. Prankster Sandstorm seems a bit of a waste of a turn, but we do get the SpD boost for our troubles, turning our CAP into a pseudo-Sand Streamer (I use this very lightly, since you're actually wasting a valuable turn).

The final nail in the coffin for me is that we suffer from the same problem as Mega Banette, which is that Prankster does not activate until a turn after Mega Evolution, which essentially leaves us with a turn of having no useful ability for a turn (Regen only works while switching). The relatively small upside to this is that we force our users to Mega Evolve sooner to get the priority ASAP. However, this in itself may turn people away from the Mega, causing them to prefer using the base forme as a Regen pivot.
 
Prankster doesn't really utilize the strengths of our CAP that well either. While our CAP is intended to be a utility counter, it plays a more offensive variant of such role because of its typing and the list of Pokemon it naturally checks. Aside from Prankster Stealth Rock, which still takes a turn to Mega, there is not much of value that our CAP could possibly do with Prankster while still playing to its strengths. Moves like Gastro Acid and Haze are rather redundant, considering our CAP would rather utilize its STABs to pressure the opponent instead.
 
1. To fans of Adaptability, why is it more pro-concept or more necessary than Rock Head?(and Sheer Force)
If CAP21 gets Rock Head, it inevitably becomes a Head Smash spammer (with coverage moves). It isn't that anti-concept, just a bit boring. Adaptability, on the other hand, gives CAP 21 a reason to use any of its stab moves, which plays to the strengths of its typing better.
 
I used to be in favor of Rock Head, but now I'm a bit hesitant about it because:
If we give if Rock Head, we almost guarantee it to have access to Head Smash. Even if we give it Head Smash for its mega form to abuse it with Rock Head, base form can still use Head Smash. Then base form can use it with Life Orb or Choice Band and heal off the recoil damage with Regenerator. In this regard, I do not want Rock Head so that base form does not have guaranteed access to Rock Head when we hit the movepool stage.

I'm more in favor of Sheer Force now. It would power up CAP21's Poison-type STAB moves, which people are more likely to drop for a coverage move over the Rock-type STAB moves. It also can't hold a Life Orb with Sheer Force, so it can't abuse it quite like Nidoking/Nidoqueen/Landorus-I do/did.
 
Last edited:
Octaazacubane said:
1. To fans of Adaptability, why is it more pro-concept or more necessary than Rock Head?(and Sheer Force)
If CAP21 gets Rock Head, it inevitably becomes a Head Smash spammer (with coverage moves). It isn't that anti-concept, just a bit boring. Adaptability, on the other hand, gives CAP 21 a reason to use any of its stab moves, which plays to the strengths of its typing better.
Click to expand...

This CAP still has a very strong incentive to use its STABs even with Rock Head. STAB Head Smash + Gunk Shot with the appropriate BST distribution is still going to hit most of its targets hard enough for the strengths of its typings to be achieved. Keep in mind that STAB Gunk Shot still hits Keldeo and Mega Lopunny very hard without Adaptability, and STAB Head Smash is a lot more desirable than STAB Stone Edge or STAB Power Gem because it does considerably more damage to Manaphy, Mega Sableye, and Mega Scizor, three targets that we want our CAP to be able to dissuade from switching in.
 
Personally, if we wanted to go the offensive route, I think Sheer Force would be our best bet (As many have already said). This ability isn't as powerful as Huge Power, but at the same time is still pretty powerful, in addition it allows part of our STABs to truly shine while not being overly powerful (Part of why I'm against Adaptability) and it also allows our coverage moves to be a bit more powerful, which could help with beating certain Water types who threaten us.

I also like Rock Head for similar reasons, but I prefer Sheer Force since the later has less danger for poll jumping
 
Da Pizza Man said:
Personally, if we wanted to go the offensive route, I think Sheer Force would be our best bet (As many have already said). This ability isn't as powerful as Huge Power, but at the same time is still pretty powerful, in addition it allows part of our STABs to truly shine while not being overly powerful (Part of why I'm against Adaptability) and it also allows our coverage moves to be a bit more powerful, which could help with beating certain Water types who threaten us.

I also like Rock Head for similar reasons, but I prefer Sheer Force since the later has less danger for poll jumping
Click to expand...

STAB Gunk Shot + Head Smash is still going to hit Manaphy, Keldeo, Azumarill, and Rotom-W fairly hard. Head Smash, with the appropriate BST (even without being excessively high), can even bust through Slowbro with hazard support.
 
Sheer Force, to me, sort of seems like a halfway point between Adaptability and Rock Head. It benefits more moves than Rock Head, including Gunk Shot and more useful coverage moves than what would be granted from Rock Head, while not being as generally powerful as Adaptability. The one issue I have with it is that it only benefits one STAB; Rock Slide is the only Rock move that Sheer Force boosts (to my knowledge), and it just turns it into a Stone Edge that misses less often. I have a similar issue with Rock Head, but at least Rock is generally much more useful than Poison offensively.

All three basically accomplish the same thing: They keep the CAP from becoming setup bait and keep things that shouldn't be switching in from switching in. I like all of them equally at this point, though at the moment I'd probably support Rock Head the most.

I would like to say this in regards to Adaptability, though: I fail to see how the power boost would suddenly invalidate all the things that are supposed to threaten us unless we throw caution to the wind come the stats stage. The Rock-neutral Ground and Steel types would take more damage from a normal Head Smash than an Adaptability Stone Edge, so Rock Head is just as bad in that regard. The things that resisted the combo before still take Adaptability-boosted STABs well, and I can't think of anything that would fear an Adaptability Gunk Shot more than a normal Gunk Shot apart from the things we want to threaten and things that wouldn't be switching in anyway.
 
Da Pizza Man said:
Personally, if we wanted to go the offensive route, I think Sheer Force would be our best bet (As many have already said). This ability isn't as powerful as Huge Power, but at the same time is still pretty powerful, in addition it allows part of our STABs to truly shine while not being overly powerful (Part of why I'm against Adaptability) and it also allows our coverage moves to be a bit more powerful, which could help with beating certain Water types who threaten us.

I also like Rock Head for similar reasons, but I prefer Sheer Force since the later has less danger for poll jumping
Click to expand...

I must warn those who like Sheer Force: Head Smash and other recoil moves aren't affected by this ability. So if we choose it for the Mega, we'll have to be more careful with Head Smash and, in fact, we may even end up using it more for the non-Mega form because of Regenerator. So while I'm okay with both, due to the increased damage power which probably will be needed to compensate for the poor coverage of the STAB attacks, I'd honestly go with Rock Head if Head Smash is under consideration.

That being said, I'm sure a Sheer-Force-boosted Gunk Shot would give Fairy-types nightmares for dayz, and even if Stone Edge will still miss, 130 BP is still nothing to sneeze at. So if Rock Head does turn out to be too OP, I'd be happy to consider Sheer Force instead.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top