CAP 24 CAP 24 - Part 12 - Flavour Ability Discussion

[DHR-107]

Hey all!

As CaP 24 is now functionally complete thanks to Dogfish44 winning the movepool poll, we can now start to look at a few flavour aspects! In this thread we will discuss any flavourful ability you wish to see on CaP24; Jumbao!

Jumbao already has access to the powerful abilities Drought and Trace. What other abilities do you think are appropriate to give to our big tree?

Some general rules for this discussion:

• Custom abilities are banned. No exceptions. Posts suggesting custom abilities will be deleted.
• There are ability banlists for the different stages of ability discussion. Posts suggesting banned abilities will be deleted.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion, as well as any other abilities that "we" decide are too competitively powerful.

Flavor Ability banlist

Air Lock
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Color Change
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Disguise
Fairy Aura
Flower Gift
Forecast
Full Metal Body
Fur Coat
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Moody
Multitype
Parental Bond
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Prism Armor
Protean
Pure Power
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Shield
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Slow Start
Soul Heart
Stance Change
Teravolt
Truant
Turboblaze
Victory Star
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode

Arena Trap
Beast Boost
Comatose
Drizzle
Drought
Electric Surge
Fluffy
Grassy Surge
Innards Out
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Misty Surge
Prankster
Psychic Surge
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost
Stamina
Triage

<Plus any ability we deem to be competitive during discussions. This may include abilities such as the -Ate abilities, Type Immunity abilities (such as Volt/Water Absorb, Dry Skin) or Power Boosting abilities (such as Sheer Force, Tough Claws)>

CAP 24 So Far

Topic Leader: Drapionswing

Topic Leadership Team:
SHSP: Typing Leader
Drew: Ability Leader
reachzero: Stats Leader
mxmts: Movepool Leader

Concept:

• Name - Snow or Shine (or Sand)
• Description - A Pokemon that abuses 2 weather conditions for different effects
• Justification - Currently in CAP, there is only one form of weather that is really worth using: rain, and only one really type of weather abuser: offensive sweeper. This concept means to address both of these issues by creating a new niche for two weather conditions. This concept would fill the archetype of a weather abuser, but I feel it also fits into the Actualization category as it would also aim to create a new role for a weather abuser for 1 or more different weather conditions.
• Questions To Be Answered
  • Why are hail, sun, and sand underrepresented in the current metagame?
  • What makes rain the best weather condition currently?
  • How can this CAP encourage the use of other weather conditions? What do hail, sun, and/or sand need? Sweepers? Setters? Walls?
  • What weather effects are underutilized? How can we successfully use these effects?
  • How can one Pokemon utilize different weather conditions for different effects and sets?
  • Should this Pokemon be able to function outside of weather-based teams? If so, what niche would it need to fulfill? If it sets it's own weather, is it enough to abuse the weather condition on its own?
• Explanation - For those who don't fully see how a not-sweeper weather abuser could work, take Lileep in LC for example. Lileep, mainly back in BW and XY as sand is quite uncommon in SM, is on most sand teams, as it can abuse its Rock-typing to boost Special Defense, the passive damage from sand, and its access to Recover and Toxic to become a weather abusing wall. Another possible interaction would be running Ferrothorn on rain teams to semi-nullify its Fire weakness. Not only typings are underexplored though! There are many moves, items, and of course abilities that can be used to abuse different weather conditions in a way that no Pokemon really does currently.

Pokemon we want to beat:

Sun:
Heatran, Crawdaunt, Latios, Mega Latios, Pajantom, Zygarde,

Sand:
Heatran, Landorus-T, Tapu Bulu, Tomohawk


Pokemon we want to pressure/threaten:
Mega Mawille, Cawmodore, Ash Greninja, Kartana, Marowak-Alola, Celesteela

Pokemon we want to check Cap24:
Fire-Types: Volcarona, Marowak-Alola, Pyroak(Sand), Blacephalon, Victini
Steel Types: Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Magearna(Sand)
Poison Types: Plasmanta, Mollux, Crucibelle, Mega Crucibelle, Toxapex, Mega Venusaur(Sun)
Priority Users: Kitsunoh, Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor, Syclant, Cawmodore
Other: Mega Alakazam, Hawlucha

Pokemon we want to counter Cap24:
Mega Venusaur(Sand)
Mega Charizard Y
Pyroak(Sun)
Chansey

Typing: Grass/Fairy
Abilities: Drought/Trace
Stats: 92 HP / 63 Atk / 97 Def / 124 SpA / 104 SpD / 96 Spe
Movepool:

Movepool

Level Up (23, 21 New)

HS Shore Up
HS Lucky Chant
HS Fake Out
1 Detect
1 Flower Shield
1 Tackle
1 Leafage
3 Tackle (R)
7 Leafage (R)
10 Rototiller
14 Ingrain
17 Magical Leaf
21 Wish
24 Psych Up
28 Body Slam
31 Natural Gift
35 Sunny Day
35 Flame Burst
38 Bullet Seed
42 Heavy Slam
45 Energy Ball
49 Moonblast
52 Leaf Storm

Egg Moves (Grass) (5 New)

Grassy Terrain (Exeggutor)
Healing Wish (Cherrim)
Misty Terrain (Cottonee)
Smelling Salts (Cacnea)
Wood Hammer (Exeggutor)

Tutor (12 New)

Snore
Synthesis
Helping Hand
Block
Worry Seed
Giga Drain
Gravity
Seed Bomb
Magic Coat
Magic Room
Wonder Room
Superpower

TMs (32, 29 New)

TM 06 Toxic
TM 08 Bulk Up
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day (R)
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 27 Return
TM 30 Shadow Ball
TM 31 Brick Break
TM 32 Double Team
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 42 Facade
TM 44 Rest
TM 45 Attract
TM 48 Round
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball (R)
TM 64 Explosion
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 74 Gyro Ball
TM 77 Psych Up (R)
TM 78 Bulldoze
TM 86 Grass Knot
TM 87 Swagger
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide

Weight: ≥500 kg

 

[earl]

I’d like to suggest Leaf Guard, it’s a good fit as it’s A. Useless B. Sun-related and C. Jumbao has leaves. It would make a good base ability alongside trace with the more uncommon drought being a hidden ability.

 

[Bice]

Can I suggest Friend Guard as a flavor ability? It's nigh-useless, and Jumbao looks like a relatively friendly Pokémon. I'd also like to second the above notion of Drought being a hidden ability, given how uncommon said ability is.

 

[GreenSylveon10]

If the opponent sets a sandstorm, the abilities Sand Veil and Sand Rush can be a good advantage.

 

[Dogfish44]

I'm going to second Frisk, with Eggy-A, Trevenant, and even the Gourgeist lines all picking up the ability, it seems to be the ability of choice for "Trees", and also "Grass Types with Fire Aspects".

I'd also like to suggest Overcoat, as I imagine that Jumbao would have some way to protect itself during desert sandstorms.

 

[Pipotchi]

Inner Focus would be fitting. It suggests some kind of mental ability that might also tie into Trace, and definitely fits its Sumo qualities.

Own Tempo also has a similar mental theme, fits dancing pokemon like Ludicolo and Spinda as well as relaxed easygoing mons. Its the non-viable version of Dancer.

 

[Scizivire]

I'd like to suggest Symbiosis as the flavor ability because it's useless competitively (at least in Singles), and I feel it ties in with Jumbao's happy-go-lucky and helpful look. Other Pokémon that have the Symbiosis ability include the Flabébé line and Oranguru. The Flabébé line, while not actually Grass types themselves, very much resemble plants and tend to care for the vegetation in their area just like I'd imagine Jumbao would do. I also like the idea that Jumbao would share their goods with the ones who need them more.

Alternatively, I think Vital Spirit might be a good flavor ability for it. Jumbao looks quite energetic and cheerful (almost like a cheerleader). While multiple translations for Vital Spirit exist, I think it applies to Pokémon who have a lot of energy in general considering Pokémon like Vigoroth (it's whole thing is being active), Primeape (always angry), Rockruff and Lillipup (puppies) get it, rather than being about sheer willpower or "willingness". Vital Spirit isn't very useful in competitive and Jumbao is already immune to Sleep Powder and Spore so I don't think it would do much harm, let alone be picked over Drought or Trace.

 

[Falchion]

If the opponent sets a sandstorm, the abilities Sand Veil and Sand Rush can be a good advantage.

I'm not sure if Sand Rush would be a good idea, especially considering that Jumbao's already quite fast as it is, and I think it also got slated as one of the primary abilities and specifically one of the ones considered for sand. If it gets picked there's a chance that it could unwittingly overshadow Trace as the sand ability and possibly give us less of an edge over some of our counters such as Heatran. Sand Veil... That's a little trickier. Boosted evasion isn't the same as boosted speed, but being able to not get bonked by some of our physical checks every so often might be a problem all the same. For now I'm gonna have to say nay to both, but if anyone can provide a good reason for either of them not overshadowing Trace, I'll gladly reconsider.

And just so this post isn't entirely me complaining, my proposed flavor abilities are Rain Dish and Hydration. Both of these fit Jumbao's basis as a tree famous for storing huge amounts of water, and I don't think they overshadow either of the primary abilities because Jumbao probably isn't going to see much use in rain anyway. Rain Dish providing recovery might be worth a bit of discussion, but I don't think Hydration should be as much of a problem because all that does is heal status problems in rain, and almost all of our checks and counters likely won't be using status effects against Jumbao in lieu of simply bludgeoning him into submission.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

Hydration makes it a capable Status Absorber during Rain, where it has one of its weaknesses (Fire) quite strongly resisted. Not a huge fan.

Going by its shape and look, I quite like that Tangled Feet could be used. It's a bit of a dancer, but also a bit clumsy, while Unnerve (with that mask and its size) is something that could be somewhat not entirely useless (Chople Berry Heatran is a thing) but isn't going go be more useable than Drought or Trace.

 

[GreenSylveon10]

I'm not sure if Sand Rush would be a good idea, especially considering that Jumbao's already quite fast as it is, and I think it also got slated as one of the primary abilities and specifically one of the ones considered for sand. If it gets picked there's a chance that it could unwittingly overshadow Trace as the sand ability and possibly give us less of an edge over some of our counters such as Heatran. Sand Veil... That's a little trickier. Boosted evasion isn't the same as boosted speed, but being able to not get bonked by some of our physical checks every so often might be a problem all the same. For now I'm gonna have to say nay to both, but if anyone can provide a good reason for either of them not overshadowing Trace, I'll gladly reconsider.

And just so this post isn't entirely me complaining, my proposed flavor abilities are Rain Dish and Hydration. Both of these fit Jumbao's basis as a tree famous for storing huge amounts of water, and I don't think they overshadow either of the primary abilities because Jumbao probably isn't going to see much use in rain anyway. Rain Dish providing recovery might be worth a bit of discussion, but I don't think Hydration should be as much of a problem because all that does is heal status problems in rain, and almost all of our checks and counters likely won't be using status effects against Jumbao in lieu of simply bludgeoning him into submission.

Well, I have an alternative known as "Trolling with status". It requires one of my favourite Pokémon abilities (I have to say it), Synchronize.

 

[pastafari]

I like Frisk, as Dogfish noted is a common Ability for trees. Another Ability that might make sense with the friendly nature referenced in the movepool, is Healer. It doesn't even have any effect in singles, so it is absolutely flavour.

 

[plaindrome]

I think Harvest could work as a third ability, since it's given exclusively to "tree" Pokemon like Exeggutor, Tropius, and Trevenant. Also, baobabs are fruit-bearing trees (Jumbao's mask even looks like a baobab fruit), so the flavor aspect of it fits the design pretty well.

 

[Mova]

I'd like to support Own Tempo because Jumbao appears to be dancing in its official artwork, and it's not particularly viable. I have little to say that has not been covered already.

 

[Okamu]

In honor of the Pre-Evo discussion I would like to suggest Desolate Land as a flavor ability for Jumbao.

So, for my own personal suggestion, I'm going to throw out Honey Gather. We've already mostly accepted the sap cannons Jumbao has, so my logic was just kind of imagine that as Jumbao keeps battling, it doesn't have an item, so then it just lets some of its sap out and oi la! I know syrup isn't exactly honey, but I found the comparison to be close enough.

As for other abilities I support from earlier in the thread, those would be Own Tempo for the dancing flavor and Vital Spirit which reminds me of both the dancing and the idea that it survives in the hot desert as well as it does.

 

[The Metal Man]

I think that Jumbao should have volt absorb because it fits with the shimenawa around the base.

 

[FriesforNapkins]

Hustle, Scrappy, Limber, Cute Charm, Klutz, Sticky Hold and Forewarn are all options that I think fit that I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Of what has, I'm a really big fan of Own Tempo, Vital Spirit, Harvest, Healer, Frisk, Unnerve, Symbiosis, Inner Focus and Overcoat. I like Friend Guard but in any situation where it might ever be utilized, Healer and Symbiosis are equally flavorful and less way-too-good versions of it in my opinion.

(Edit: missed Body Slam being in the movepool(and Moonblast's additional effect, somehow), no longer an advocate for Serene Grace)

 

[Quanyails]

Out of the abilities suggested so far, Frisk, Klutz, and Overcoat appeal to me the most.

Frisk has precedence in what Grass-type Pokemon have it, as Dogfish said. I think of both Phantump's mask and Gourgeist's fire, and how Jumbao has both elements.

Jumbao is really stiff, doesn't have real grabby limbs, and is presumably jumbo, so I can't see it handling tools with finesse. Klutz works well there!

I think Overcoat fits Jumbao weathering weather really well, and it helps the concept by providing a small perk when used in Sand (or Hail :P). It's already a Grass-type Pokemon, so Jumbao already has the secondary benefit Overcoat would have given it.

I also like Own Tempo and Inner Focus in reference to Jumbao's jolly nature and sumo aspect, respectively.

I like the idea of Serene Grace on The Tree of Life, but I can't help but wonder if people would try to use Serene Grace Body Slam as a way to paralyze, even though we banned Stun Spore in movepool.

We should avoid abilities that lets Jumbao benefit from rain, given CAP 24's concept.

 

[Wulfanator]

I would like to suggest Cursed Body as an option. Cursed body would play into the lore of the Kodama spirit that inhabit trees.

From Wikipedia:
"A kodama's outer appearance is very much like an ordinary tree, but if one attempts to cut it down, one would become cursed etc., and it is thus considered to have some kind of mysterious supernatural power."

From Pip's submission:
"Around its waist is a root 'shimenawa', usually hung around sacred objects like trees or rocks and wards off evil spirits that can inhabit them."

If you want to bring down Jumbao, you'll have to risk the curse.

 

[Hobie]

I would like to suggest Water Compaction. While by no means as bad as abilities like Leaf Guard or Healer, I think it really fits in with the Baobab tree theme, being a desert tree. Natural Cure is also a good option, with many happy looking Pokemon like the Chansey line, Corsola, and Altaria. Many grass types also get it, with Celebi, Shaymin, and Trevenant all being examples.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

I would like to suggest Friend Guard as Jumbao's flavor ability. It looks friendly, and Jumbao seems like a Pokemon that will not hesitate to protect its friend.

Another flavor ability suggestion I would like to make is Gluttony. Given the appearance of a sumo, I can imagine Jumbao being a glutton. While Gluttony has seen some competitive uses, it doesn't compete with Drought or Trace... at least in Single for Trace's case.

Jumbao seems like a carefree Pokemon, so Oblivious would make a nice flavor ability to it. It doesn't compete with its main abilities either.

 

[Escavalier Royale]

Because Baobab trees often have thick bark, Battle Armor looks like a fitting ability to me. This same fact also justifies Bulletproof and maybe Thick Fat but both of those sound a little too competitively viable to me (Bulletproof gives an immunity to Sludge Bomb and Thick Fat neutralizes two weaknesses).

Alternatively, since Baobab trees tend to store quite a lot of water, I could see Innards Out working as well. The sap of the tree could justify Liquid Ooze.

Finally, as it is seemingly being affected and occasionally controlled by wandering spirits, Moody could work as well. Zero competitive value since it's banned :P

 

[DHR-107]

I have a feeling a few people are treading over the line of what could be deemed competitive... Water Compaction, Rain Dish etc all could be valued competitively, and this is an ability we wish to be entirely inferior to the other two options we have. Anything benefiting Rain is pretty much off the table, as are most abilities which activate on Water type moves too. While it might be flavourful due to the nature of the design, it completes destroys the Pokemon we are trying to build.

Of all the options listed so far, Overcoat is the only one I really like. It gives you a sand (and hail) immunity (which may be helpful infrequently), but does not come even close to the power levels of the other two abilities. Frisk is another ability I like the sound of due to its nature of being on tree like Pokemon, especially considering Jumbao might rival Exeggutor in height...

 

[Magistrum]

I'd like to suggest Overgrow as a flavor ability. While on paper it sounds like it might have any competitive merit via subsalac or subpetaya, boosting only Grass-type moves is not great at all with the stat-lowering Leaf Storm being the only damaging move remotely worth running. And with Jumbao being this thick, oversized tree, I reckon Overgrow fits well without a problem.

The only complaint I have is that Overgrow (and similar) is universally a primary ability for a Starter, who also lack a secondary, with the exception of the Elemonkeys, who have them as Hidden Abilities. None have three abilities. If it's for flavour, then it should ideally be conceptually at least partnered with the other Starters, who have Overgrow, 1 Hidden Ability, and a third type triangle (Fairy fits well with Ghost and Dark so that at least fits), along with 2 Prevolutions.

Given that we've already gone to the extent of having 2 abilities, I do not think that Overgrow fits here.

I don't think this argument holds water at all. Like you said, Overgrow already has a precedent as a hidden ability for a non-starter pokemon, which makes the starter-only rule moot. As for the "none have three abilities" part, time and time again we have put together a set of abilities for each CAP that defied the norms of the canon pokemon. I don't see why we have to conform to it now.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

The only complaint I have is that Overgrow (and similar) is universally a primary ability for a Starter, who also lack a secondary, with the exception of the Elemonkeys, who have them as Hidden Abilities. None have three abilities. If it's for flavour, then it should ideally be conceptually at least partnered with the other Starters, who have Overgrow, 1 Hidden Ability, and a third type triangle (Fairy fits well with Ghost and Dark so that at least fits), along with 2 Prevolutions.

Given that we've already gone to the extent of having 2 abilities, I do not think that Overgrow fits here.

 

[snorlax142857]

I'd like Overcoat as an ability, as many people mentioned above. Natural Cure would also fit Jumbao's theme. Harvest also makes sense, but then some sitrus berry stall or synthesis + petaya SpA boosting set could happen, so I'd rather avoid that.