CAP 25 - Part 2 - Concept Poll 1

[Quanyails]

This will be a Ranked Pairs vote (RP) (a form of voting where each candidate is ranked according to head to head matchups with each of its competitors in a directed acyclic graph), the details of which were discussed here.

This is a ranked vote: order does matter! You can upvote your favorites and downvote your least favorites. You may choose to rank as many or as few options as you like, but we encourage you to rank as many options as possible to ensure your preferences are taken into account.

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Most Preferred
Second Most Preferred
Third Most Preferred

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IMPORTANT: When voting, use only the name of the author! The list of possible votes include:

Deck Knight
Granny Pie
Mr Holiday
mxmts
Wulfanator72
Quanyails
LucarioOfLegends
Pipotchi

This poll will be open for 24 hours. The concept submissions are quoted below in order of submission.

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Astounding Ability Actualization

• Name - Astounding Ability Actualization
• Description - These Pokemon each maximize the potential of their given, separate abilities by coordinating their movepools and that ability's competitive effect.
• Justification - This is an Actualization concept much like Cyclohm's original "Neglected Ability." In my research on what made Pokemon with "Starter Level" stats effective, the common denominator was they all had abilities they used to full effect with their other competitive aspects. This framework gives us a unique opportunity to A-B test some fairly powerful abilities we usually shy away from and bring out an effective competitive starter trio.
• Questions To Be Answered -
  • Which Abilities are best suited to a full, comprehensive exploration of their specific mechanics?
  • Why does Ability seem to be the common factor in taking "starter-esque" Pokemon into prominence (e.g. Protean and Battle Bond Greninja, Contrary Serperior, Speed Boost Blaziken to Ubers, etc.)
  • What is the threshold where maximizing an ability goes toi far, such as Blaziken's combination of Swords Dance, strong attack and mid-grade speed, and high BP STABS with Speed Boost or Protean Greninja's huge speed and just-varied enough movepool in prior Generations?
  • How will introducing three specialized Pokemon into the metagame at once impact it overall?
  • Which type combinations along with the starter types are best suited to maximizing the potential of a specific ability, and why?
• Explanation - Competitive Pokemon has suffered from a massive power creep for a long time. In order for a Pokemon to be effective, not only does it have to be fairly good generally, it also can't be directly outclassed. Considering our Framework, our Pokemon are already competing against Heatran/Volcarona, Toxapex/Keldeo/Greninja, and Ferrothorn/Kartana for offensive or defensive roles. However, each of those Pokemon have their own flaws that give our FWG CAP Trio space to explore if we are focused on a key niche for each of them.
  
  Let's take Grass for example, and Tough Claws. Tough Claws boosts one of the most incredibly CAP-relevant moves, Grass Knot, because it is a special contact attack. Only Mega Metagross ever even came close to utilizing this combination, and Mega-Meta was banned (for other reasons, of course). Grass could also use it's huge number of healing options with Triage, including priority Strength Sap that even outruns Bullet Punch. Nearly every Fire attack has a secondary effect chance perfect for Serene Grace or Sheer Force. Water has a few specific moves that would also love Serene Grace, but would also appreciate breaking through Gastrodon and Mollux with Mold Breaker. Suffice it to say, this concept gives us an ability to meet our Framework demands and think through a huge combination of synergistic types and abilities in a single project.

Death to the King!

• Name: Death to the King!
• Description: Pokemon that target top metagame threats and seek to counter or check the majority of them, either offensively or defensively.
• Justification: This certainly falls under the Target archetype, and seeks to decentralize the current meta. With three Pokemon, several A and S-tier threats in CAP could each be singled out, analyzed, and knocked from their pedestals by one of the three, but while still faring well against or defeating each of the other two. This concept would also Target what it means to be a top metagame threat in CAP.
• Questions to be answered:
  • What makes a threat a top metagame threat?
  • What Pokemon are worth being targetted and decentralized?
  • What would it take to target and threaten key threats in the current CAP metagame?
  • Is it possible to provide solid counterplay to a Pokemon that lacks such a counter?
  • What kind of changes would such a decentralization bring?
  • What previously downtrodden Pokemon could rise up in the new metagame in the absence of their high-tier counters?
  • What previously downtrodden Pokemon could rise up in the new metagame in the absence of high-tier Pokemon who did their job better or role-compressed better?
• Explanation: CAP6 Arghonaut was an incredibly interesting process, seeking to decentralize the top OU threats at the time, like Scizor, Zapdos, and Heatran. Since CAP processes now focuses on the CAP metagame, CAP25 is the perfect opportunity to analyze the top threats of our own meta, and seek to dethrone them, and indirectly raise some counterparts of their competition. With three Pokemon, we can target more than one key threat, thoroughly analyze the current meta, and even completely turn it on its head. Plus, it's a great way to celebrate CAP, by taking one of our first concepts, and applying it to modernity in our own metagame.

Once More, with Feeling!

Name: Once More, with Feeling!

Description: These CAPs would be designed to take ideas/concepts/gimmicks from past Pokemon, that either looked good on paper but didn't work in practice, or that just never worked in the first place, and revamp them into competitive viability.

Justification: This is largely a Target concept, focused on identifying Pokemon from the past that, for one reason or another, weren't able to cut it in the OU/CAP metagame and redoing the same underlying idea of that Pokemon in such a way that it could be competitively viable. This is not intended to "fix" bad Pokemon, so much as it is to find good ideas which were poorly executed in the past, and determine what, if anything, can be done to bring out the idea's full potential. This Concept can also fall under Actualization, by achieving the goals set by past Pokemon that were never fulfilled, ideally shedding light on what made them fail in the first place.

Questions to be Answered: Why did the selected Pokemon fail to make it in the OU/CAP metagame? Was their underlying idea or concept simply bad, or was it poorly executed? Are there simply some concepts, ideas or strategies that can never work in OU/CAP, or is it possible through the right combination of Stats, Typing, Moves and Abilities? Can these ideas be kept balanced while making them viable, or are they entirely broken when working properly? Is it worthwhile to pursue these failed ideas, or is it better to simply stick with the "accepted" norms of competitive Pokemon? If so, will this cause other, less "standardized" ideas and concepts to gain in popularity, or will the accepted norms always remain as such?

Explanation: Oftentimes in Pokemon, we have a Pokemon design that, on paper, looks to be perfectly viable and threatening, but when it's actually used in practice it can't quite live up to it's own hype. For example, when people first saw Rampardos and it's 165 base Attack, they assumed it would be a vastly powerful physical threat, one which every team would have to prepare for. However, when people actually started to use it, they found that Rampardo is plagued by a myriad number of problems (Less than ideal Stats, interesting but not very helpful Ability, etc.) that kept it from shining in the OU format. Other times, we have Pokemon that seem built for a very specific, if sometimes gimmicky, strategy, one which never gets used in OU. When I first saw Toxapex, with it's unique Ability in Merciless and varied ways of utilizing it, I immediately saw a strange kind of tank/wall breaker, using critical hits to plow through statistically superior foes. Competitive players, however, saw a wall with a useless main Ability. I think it would interesting, and potentially very informative, to see if ideas like these, that are considered to gimmicky, or that have been poorly executed, can be made viable in OU/CAP. With the special Framework of CAP 25, we can select 3 "failed" ideas of the past and see if they can be made viable.

Role Compression Madness

Name: Role Compression Madness

Description: Each of these 3 Pokemon provides its team with role compression in different ways.

Justification: This is a target concept, that attempts to addresses the issue of Role Compression. Past projects like Tomohawk or most recently Jumbao own their place in the meta to their amazing Role Compression. However, in these projects, the Role Compression wasn't really the main focus, it was simply a secondary effect of their concept. Instead this concept aims to focus on this idea in depth. This might not necessarily mean that well have three final products with as much role compression as possible, just that each one should serve as an example of how can this concept be achieved in different ways.

Questions To Be Answered:

• How important is Role Compression for a Pokemon?
• Which roles are the hardest to fit on a team at present?
• In which different ways can Role Compression be achieved?
• How much role compression should each starter pack, so that it is viable and balanced in the current metagame?
• How can these Pokemon differentiate themselves from pre-existing ones with already good role compression, like Heatran, Jumbao, Tomohawk or Landorus-T, without being too overpowered?
• Can typically "opposite" roles still be compressed together?
• Which different kind of teams can better take advantage of these Pokemon?

Explanation: This concept is based on the one submitted by reachzero for CAP 23. However, unlike that one, which attempted to maximize Role Compression in just one Pokemon, this concept uses the Starters Framework to explore the different ways in which Role Compression can be achieved. There are many ways to do this, like packing multiple vital utility moves, having the bulk necessary to check multiple important Pokemon that would otherwise threaten your team, or having coverage to deal with those same threats offensively. Each one of the starters would try to accomplish this objective in their own unique way.

Cause and Effect

Name – Cause and Effect

Description – Pokémon that explore the potential of secondary effects

Justification – These Pokémon would be a target concept. While playing CAP, I’ve noticed secondary effects often take a backseat to good damage. The most notable example of this would be thunderbolt versus discharge in OU. It was only during the transition from ORAS to SM that moves like discharge began to rise in popularity. Looking at the suggested smogon sets for Pokémon like Zapdos (XY/SM) confirms this change. Exploring this shift in the meta would be interesting since there are many ways of spreading and using secondary effects. This concept also yields a lot of potential for counterplay with Pokémon in the CAP arsenal like Colossoil, Cyclohm, Gliscor, and Naviathan.


Questions To Be Answered –

• In what ways can additional effects be used effectively?
• How would the sudden increase of additional effects impact the meta?
• Would using abilities that remove additional effects to increase damage be considered “using” secondary effects?
• What archetypes would appreciate the heightened focus on additional effects?

Explanation – After a rather thorough smack down of my previous suggestion (Super Hax), I’ve decided to take reachzero’s advice and focus more specifically on the potential of additional effects. There are many interesting tools we have available when it comes to moves with secondary effects, including some very reliable options. With such a wide array of moves at our disposal, it offers many unique takes on how to use them. As an example, we could go for a more support oriented defensive Pokémon. On the opposite end of the spectrum, we could aim for hyper-offensive Pokémon with the intent to cripple whatever opponent it touches. My interest for this concept only increases when you add the limitations of typing, BST, and competitive ability.

The Bigger They Are

Name: The Bigger They Are

Description: A Pokémon that beats its opponent by using the opponent's strengths against itself.

Justification: This concept fits primarily in the Archetype category:

• Certain team archetypes are highly disruptive to common battle strategies. For instance, at the cost of a turn, Trick Room teams turn a speed advantage into a disadvantage. This can be crippling for some teams and can force the opponent into a less familiar situation. Creating Pokémon that upsets the natural strengths people use Pokémon on a team for can be rewarding to teambuild and challenging to play against. Given that we have three Pokémon, we can explore ways of using an opponent's strength against itself for different team archetypes or, alternatively, in complement to one other.

Questions to be answered:

• What strengths of Pokémon do people look for when building a team, either by the Pokémon itself or with teammates?
• What strengths of Pokémon do people beware when facing against a team, either by the Pokémon itself or with teammates?
• What strengths of Pokémon can be exploited?
• What team roles can Pokémon that exploit strengths take?
• What opportunity cost must exploiting a strength have that makes it not too situational? I.e.:
  • What ways of exploiting a strength are worthwhile?
  • How much of a penalty must the exploit make for it to be worthwhile?
  • What slots (team slots, move slots, item slots, etc.) would people be willing to spend on an exploit?
  • How much of a turn cost would make the exploit worthwhile?
• To what extent is exploiting an Pokémon's strengths part of the game's mechanics? To what extent is it psychological?

Explanation: I was inspired by Discord discussion on punishing set-up sweepers, which can mean something like stealing boosts or using their boosted stat against them (e.g., using Punishment/Foul Play or causing confusion damage). Additionally, we also finished Jumbao, which uses Trace to gain better matchups against Landorus-T and Heatran, by using Intimidate and Flash Fire against them. As mentioned in the Justification part, Trick Room turns Pokémon's speed investment against them. There are many other ways of taking a Pokémon's strengths and turning them against itself! This concept is wide enough that we can execute it in many different ways. This is great for the framework, since we have three Pokémon we can experiment directions with. Not only that, but this concept makes it easier to build the 'mons for CAP's power level, given the ability and stat constraints starters have.

Typed Together

Name: Typed Together

Description: A Pokemon that can create a core with a Pokemon that shares a type of the CAP.

Justification: This concept falls under the Actualization category, as it explores the idea of the shared type core, which is also called type spam by many people in the community. Shared type cores are not too rare in the metagame already, but there is absolutely room to grow for these cores, and it really lets us research how a core interacts when they share weaknesses together, and how each core can overcome those weaknesses.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What benefits does a shared type core carry compared to a core with differently typed Pokemon?
• Are the extra vulnerability and weaknesses brought in by the core offset by the benefits?
• How would the metagame likely react to the shared type core?
• Are there any major shared type cores in the metagame currently? What can be learned from their viability?
• What kind of roles would the CAP fulfill for the selected shared type core that the partner cannot?
• Should CAP be able to shift from one viable shared type core to another?
• Are there ways to create shared type cores without relying on offensive type spam?

Explanation: This is once again a partner concept, which have been known to have a bad wrap due to their generally shoddy execution. However, I think this concept is different because of the different type of core it presents. Shared types cores are a much more risky core than is usually presented, as they may not have the type benefits that other cores may have. They also tend to be offensive in nature, with the legendary bird spam lingering back in the minds of gen 6 and psychic spam still persisting today. This concept offers a look into what makes them tick, while also giving the chance to make some very unique styles of shared type cores that otherwise have not been tried or been successful.

First Come, First Served

Name- First Come, First Served

Description- Each pokemon will explore a different method of allowing your team to move first.

Justification- This is mostly an Archetype project, although the category exists in a more lateral way than most- the role of "speed control" (term I'll use to describe the ability to let your team move first) can manifest in many different ways and can be anything from fully supportive to fully defensive to maximum offense. To explore the contrast between all of these options will be interesting!

Questions-

-What are the most viable forms of speed control?
-What are the underused forms of speed control? What are their unique merits?
-How do opposing forms of speed control interact? Is there a pyramid or cyclic nature as to how different methods of speed beat each other?
-What is the importance of speed? What value is moving first for different team compositions?

Explanation-

Moving first has always been an important part of pokemon and has changed every generation- gen 1 was all about paralysis, gen 3 gave us abilities, gen 4 introduced the choice scarf sweeper, gen 5 gave the weather speed boost, gen6 came with powerful priority users and gen7 changed the game once again with Psychic Terrain. There is a complex and incredibly interesting relationship between methods of moving first and the battle for dominant speed control method over the generations should highlight that a little. Exploring that to find new and powerful strategies for the current metagame could be a very insightful project, and we might also be able to find a new strength in underused methods! The opportunity to explore something defensive (like prankster tomo), offensive (like scarf volkraken) or utility (like sticky web necturna) all in the same project will be very cool!

 

[Mx]

mxmts
Pipotchi
Deck Knight
Mr Holiday
Granny Pie
Quanyails
Wulfanator72
LucarioOfLegends

I really don't think the last three are viable for the framework we chose, because need to find a way to implement the winning concept in three different ways, or our final product will end up being three very similar Pokemon.

 

[S. Court]

Quanyails
Pipotchi
Granny Pie
Mr Holiday
Deck Knight
Wulfanator72
mxmts
LucarioOfLegends

 

[K. Roolest Shark]

Deck Knight
LucarioOfLegends
Mr Holiday
Quanyails
Wulfanator72
mxmts
Granny Pie

 

[faithviolet]

Mr Holiday
Pipotchi
Deck Knight
LucarioOfLegends
Quanyails
Wulfanator72
Granny Pie
mxmts

 

[G-Luke]

Deck Knight
mxmts
Granny Pie
Mr Holiday
Wulfanator72
Quanyails
LucarioOfLegends
Pipotchi

 

[Gryoine]

Pipotchi
Mr Holiday
Wulfanator72
Granny Pie
Deck Knight
mxmts
Quanyails
LucarioOfLegends

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

LucarioOfLegends
Mr Holiday
Pipotchi
Deck Knight
Wulfanator72
Quanyails
Granny Pie
mxmts

 

[plaindrome]

Pipotchi
Deck Knight
Mr Holiday
Granny Pie
Quanyails
mxmts
Wulfanator72
LucarioOfLegends

 

[Squidy822]

Mr Holiday
Deck Knight
Granny Pie
Pipotchi
Wulfanator72
LucarioOfLegends
Quanyails
mxmts

Modedit: Fixing spelling of "Quanyails".

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Granny Pie
Mr Holiday
Pipotchi
Quanyails
Deck Knight
mxmts
Wulfanator72
LucarioOfLegends

 

[Frostbiyt]

Mr Holiday
LucarioOfLegends
mxmts
Wulfanator72
Pipotchi

 

[Dogfish44]

Granny Pie
Deck Knight
Pipotchi
mxmts
Mr Holiday
Quanyails
LucarioOfLegends
Wulfanator72

 

[reachzero]

Pipotchi
Mr Holiday
Granny Pie
mxmts
LucarioOfLegends
Wulfanator72
Quanyails
Deck Knight

 

[Granny Pie]

Granny Pie
Pipotchi
Quanyails
Deck Knight
mxmts
Mr Holiday
LucarioOfLegends
Wulfanator72

 

[Okamu]

Deck Knight
LucarioOfLegends
Pipotchi
Mr Holiday
Granny Pie
Quanyails
mxmts
Wulfanator72

 

[david0895]

Deck Knight
Wulfanator72
Quanyails

 

[Plazzap]

Pipotchi
Quanyails
LucarioOfLegends
Mr Holiday
Granny Pie
Wulfanator72
mxmts
Deck Knight

 

[Felis Licht]

Quanyails
LucarioOfLegends
Wulfanator72
Granny Pie
Deck Knight
Mr Holiday
mxmts
Pipotchi

 

[Reviloja753]

Pipotchi
Mr Holiday
mxmts
Granny Pie
Wulfanator72
Quanyails

 

[Escavalier Royale]

Mr Holiday
Pipotchi
Deck Knight
Quanyails
Granny Pie
mxmts
Wulfanator72
LucarioOfLegends

 

[Rifou88]

Pipotchi
LucarioOfLegends
Wulfanator72
Granny Pie
Quanyails
mxmts
Deck Knight

 

[Pipotchi]

Pipotchi
mxmts
Granny Pie
LucarioOfLegends
Mr Holiday
Wulfanator72
Quanyails
Deck Knight

 

[Project_Mars]

mxmts
Mr Holiday
Deck Knight
Quanyails

 

[Snorlax in the way]

Wulfanator72
Deck Knight
Mr Holiday
LucarioOfLegends
Granny Pie
mxmts
Quanyails
Pipotchi