CAP 26 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[RishRaff]

I am happy to take comments and/or concerns to make this concept the best it can be. Hopefully I answered all the categories correctly and thoroughly to everyone's liking. Thank you.

• Name – Throwing Weight Around
• Description – A Pokemon that primarily takes advantage of weight mechanics to carve itself a niche
• Justification – This concept falls under Actualization, as it seeks to explore the underutilized weight mechanics. While weight is typically just a flavor stat, but there a few Pokemon who rely on weight to function in the metagame. They do this by either taking advantage exclusive of the opponent’s weight, such as Weavile using Low Kick as a coverage move, or considering the user’s own weight as well, such as Celesteela using Heavy Slam as a main STAB. However, there is currently no Pokemon who’s niche or strategy is based solely/primarily around weight mechanics.
• Questions To Be Answered
• • What qualities do Pokemon that currently exist in the metagame possess that allows them to successful utilize weight mechanics?
  • How are weight mechanic currently the most prevalently seen in the metagame?
  • Under what conditions does weight become a consideration in team building? If not at all, why not?
  • Is there an ideal weight range for Pokemon that leaves them the least vulnerable to weight mechanics? Conversely, is there a weight range (or ranges) that Pokemon are the most vulnerable to weight mechanics?
  • What “weight moves” are the most effectively/commonly seen in the metagame and why?
  • Is there any competitive value to manipulating a Pokemon’s weight (through moves, abilities, etc.)
• Explanation – Ever since the change of in Low Kick’s mechanic in Gen III, a Pokemon’s weight moved from a flavor stat to an actual stat that has an impact on battle. As the generations have moved on, more moves, items, and abilities have been introduced to manipulate weight and take advantage of the weight of Pokemon. However, weight is not a largely considered stat like Speed or Attack in defining a Pokemon’s role in the metagame. This concept gives us the opportunity to explore a Pokemon stat that is largely ignored outside of few Pokemon (Celesteela, Mega Aggron, etc). Furthermore, it would be interesting to see if weight manipulation can be effectively implemented as a competitive niche, since no other Pokemon that currently exist do this. It also adds a new dimension to team building where the weight distribution of your team matters. For example, if you have all heavy Pokemon (greater than 200 kg), a Pokemon that uses primarily a move like Low Kick can deal maximum damage (150 base power) to all the Pokemon on your team.

 

[Birkal]

MODPOST

As per the Topic Leader, this thread will be open for submissions for roughly 48 hours. Continue to submit concepts and discuss them!

 

[G-Luke]

I am happy to take comments and/or concerns to make this concept the best it can be. Hopefully I answered all the categories correctly and thoroughly to everyone's liking. Thank you.

• Name – Throwing Weight Around
• Description – A Pokemon that primarily takes advantage of weight mechanics to carve itself a niche
• Justification – This concept falls under Actualization, as it seeks to explore the underutilized weight mechanics. While weight is typically just a flavor stat, but there a few Pokemon who rely on weight to function in the metagame. They do this by either taking advantage exclusive of the opponent’s weight, such as Weavile using Low Kick as a coverage move, or considering the user’s own weight as well, such as Celesteela using Heavy Slam as a main STAB. However, there is currently no Pokemon who’s niche or strategy is based solely/primarily around weight mechanics.
• Questions To Be Answered
• • What qualities do Pokemon that currently exist in the metagame possess that allows them to successful utilize weight mechanics?
  • How are weight mechanic currently the most prevalently seen in the metagame?
  • Under what conditions does weight become a consideration in team building? If not at all, why not?
  • Is there an ideal weight range for Pokemon that leaves them the least vulnerable to weight mechanics? Conversely, is there a weight range (or ranges) that Pokemon are the most vulnerable to weight mechanics?
  • What “weight moves” are the most effectively/commonly seen in the metagame and why?
  • Is there any competitive value to manipulating a Pokemon’s weight (through moves, abilities, etc.)
• Explanation – Ever since the change of in Low Kick’s mechanic in Gen III, a Pokemon’s weight moved from a flavor stat to an actual stat that has an impact on battle. As the generations have moved on, more moves, items, and abilities have been introduced to manipulate weight and take advantage of the weight of Pokemon. However, weight is not a largely considered stat like Speed or Attack in defining a Pokemon’s role in the metagame. This concept gives us the opportunity to explore a Pokemon stat that is largely ignored outside of few Pokemon (Celesteela, Mega Aggron, etc). Furthermore, it would be interesting to see if weight manipulation can be effectively implemented as a competitive niche, since no other Pokemon that currently exist do this. It also adds a new dimension to team building where the weight distribution of your team matters. For example, if you have all heavy Pokemon (greater than 200 kg), a Pokemon that uses primarily a move like Low Kick can deal maximum damage (150 base power) to all the Pokemon on your team.

No means to shut you down, but Weight in and of itself is a quantity that sees very little competitive use, and for a good reason - only four moves, two abilities and one item have anything to do with weight. Low Kick and Grass Knot are not that particularly common in the metagame, as most Pokémon almost always have better, much more consistent STAB / coverage available. So defensively weight would not even be utilized here. So that leaves offensively, which to be honest isn't much. A powerful Heavy Slam is already covered by both Naviathan and Celesteela, as a sweeping tool and as a means to ensure a defensive Pokemon is not passive. Heat Crash is basically the same thing but a different type. Tl:dr There isn't much of anything to explore about weight - what little that is relevant is already done by two Steel types in the metagame.

 

[Jordy]

Because the 48 hour warning just went up, I'd like to leave my thoughts on some of the current submissions that interest me.

Pick Your Poison

I find this a particularly interesting concept, because it looks to divide roles between one and the same Pokemon, yet not on the same set. However, I feel like this concept very much walks the line between being balanced and broken; I feel like it's very similar to Aurumoth, which, just like what your concept suggests, has a lot of different tools and can do pretty much anything if it wants to. To add onto that, mechanics are constantly changing between generations, making this submission very susceptible to what the future may bring.

Celebrity Entourage

Terrible puns aside, I'm actually really interested in this concept. It's unique to any other concept and asks a lot from us as a community, which I think would be really beneficial to CAP as a whole. However I have a slight issue with how exactly the player that we're going to build around is appointed, because it's only very vaguely described, maybe you could add it to questions? I don't really have anything else to add, I just wanted to show my support to this submission.

Sketch Artist 2

I believe that, considering past mistakes involving Necturna which we can learn from, the process revolving around this concept would be extremely interesting. However, similarly to Pick Your Poison, I very much feel like it's far too susceptible to what the future may bring.

The Return of Speed

I am a big fan of this concept. Not only is it a very interactive concept in which we analyze what makes fast Pokemon so great and not so great, it also gives us initiative to explore this further, which I do not believe that it has been explored to its full extent.

 

[wauknay84]

Name - The Glue That Hold Us Together

Descripton - A Pokemon that can fill in the gaps a team is lacking

Justification - I see this as falling underneath the Actualization and Archetype categories. "Gluemons" are a pretty essential part of team building- they alleviate pressure from their teammates, fill in specific important moves those teammates are lacking, or act as blanket checks to a number of problematic threats. We already have some examples in Landorus-T and Ferrothorn, but this CAP would seek this out as its main purpose, to take it a step further, likely covering multiple potential roles.

Questions:
- What specifically makes for a good gluemon? Is it bulk, coverage, a mixture of the two, or something else?
- What parts of teambuilding leads to the necessity of these gluemons?
- What kind of roles and how many of those roles does a gluemon need to be able to fill?
- Does a gluemon actually need to be able to fill a specific role to be viable at all?
- Can a gluemon fulfill its purpose by only filling a single role on a team?
- Could a pokemon be considered a gluemon while only being able to fill a certain role, but do it in such a way that stands out from the rest of its competitors for that spot?

Explanation - A common issue with teambuilding (at least for me) can be the 6th "gluemon" that can bring the pieces together to form a strong combination. This pokemon would strive to fill that gap. I would imagine this would likely be a strong support mon (though we may find that to not be the case) that can hold its own and fit onto just about any team with ease, possibly filling multiple roles, possibly even multiple roles on the same team. This isn't to say there are any specific roles we we need to make it fill, this is totally open and can be discussed in later parts of CAP creation. I think discovering what roles we want for this CAP would be the biggest draw to this concept. I also think one of the biggest challenges we would face is probably the balancing act of keeping this CAP viable enough to be that gluemon, but not make it overbearing to the meta. While it may be a challenge, I think it would also be one of the more fun parts of the creation process and open up a lot of potential discussion and analysis of the entire meta.

 

[SnowChaser]

• Name -The Best Offence is a great Defence
• Description - A Pokemon whose offensive capabilities scale in some way with it's defences, in either positive or negative correlation, both would create interesting but quite different Pokémon.
  • Actualization: It's the actualisation of many gimmicks that have been tried in the past, often involving Shuckle and moves like guard split and wonder room, but were always pretty awful. the goal would be to make something that feels similar but requires less set up, and consequently is less bad.
  • Archetype: What it does is likely quite flexible, but likely in some way a set-up sweeper, probably leaning more to the calm mind/bulk up strategy than something that increases speed in the case of a positive direct scaling, though taking negative correlation, it would stil likely be a set up sweeper but if your decreasing your defences to up your atk stats in some way something more like a dragon dance or a quiver dance would likely make for a better set. anyway, all of that just to say, 'Set-up-sweeper'
  • Target: N/a
• Questions To Be Answered -
  • How are the stats going to correlate with each other?
  • What sort of strategies might become more popular due to this Pokémons existence?
  • What is the 'price' of an effect that can be increasing many of your stats at once?
• Explanation - I don't think anyone has ever had any luck with the Shuckle gimmick, ever, it's awful. but it is fun. And my that logic, this would be fun! right? that's how that works, right? right??? Okay but in all seriousness, a pokemon whose offensive capabilities rely on something other than it's attack stats feels cool and unique, depending on what route that concept is taken it could possibly feel somewhat similar to aegislash, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. So, my personal vision for the thing, Fighting/Bug Armadillo. Ability that adds approx. 50% of it's defence to it's attack stat, or whatever number is balanced, probably less than that actually to think about it. A negative correlation idea could work something along the lines of a pokemon with a ludicrously high attack stat but is decreased by it's def stat. anyway, just ideas.

 

[sun_dew]

• Name - Copy That, Sir.
• Description - A Pokemon that primarily uses copying moves as a form of attack.
• Justification - This concept falls under Actualization, as it uses the underused mechanic of copying moves. Aside from Necturna (with sketch), there is almost no Pokémon in the meta that even carry a copying move, let alone rely on it.
• Questions To Be Answered -
  • How can a CAP’s stats be balanced so that its copying moves can be effective?
  • Is there a certain speed that works best with copying moves?
  • Are countering moves also considered copying moves?
  • Can a CAP that uses these types of moves even be viable, compared to the Pokémon in the meta that focus more on their own moves?
• Explanation - Although some Pokémon have one or two copying moves, few actually rely on it, and I feel that it’s an interesting niche that hasn’t exactly been filled before. Smeargle would be a good example, although that Pokémon only uses a single copying move, which is also (arguably) one of the strongest copying moves. Using some lesser-known copying moves (i.e. Me First or Mimic) could catch opponents off guard, but also may be less effective.

 

[Warren685]

• 
  
• Explanation - I don't think anyone has ever had any luck with the Shuckle gimmick, ever, it's awful. but it is fun. And my that logic, this would be fun! right? that's how that works, right? right??? Okay but in all seriousness, a pokemon whose offensive capabilities rely on something other than it's attack stats feels cool and unique, depending on what route that concept is taken it could possibly feel somewhat similar to aegislash, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. So, my personal vision for the thing, Fighting/Bug Armadillo. Ability that adds approx. 50% of it's defence to it's attack stat, or whatever number is balanced, probably less than that actually to think about it. A negative correlation idea could work something along the lines of a pokemon with a ludicrously high attack stat but is decreased by it's def stat. anyway, just ideas.

We don't do custom abilities anymore for CAP also CAP doesn't work on personal ideas like that, it's a community process, can't just shove a custom ability and a prefer design and typing like that. Please look back in the CAP archives or in the CAP guide to get a better understanding of the process of creating a CAP, it's not a solo process, it's a community process where we all discuss something viable together.

 

[hawk1113]

We don't do custom abilities anymore for CAP also CAP doesn't work on personal ideas like that, it's a community process, can't just shove a custom ability and a prefer design and typing like that. Please look back in the CAP archives or in the CAP guide to get a better understanding of the process of creating a CAP, it's not a solo process, it's a community process where we all discuss something viable together.

To echo this, you're onto something similar to one of my favorite submissions in terms of looking for a Pokemon that is Defensive but not Passive and can somehow leverage its defenses into a potent offensive presence - that's a really cool idea! The problem is you have to get that across without any custom abilities, attacks, or typing, and the actual typing, ability, stats, and movepool of this Pokemon are 100% collaborative. I'd remove any references to what you said, and instead talk about ways to make the "Shuckle Gimmick" more effective, or otherwise explore this area.

 

[hawk1113]

• Name - Slow and Steady Wins the Race
• Description - A Pokemon that utilizes slow, steady incremental damage to wear opponents down over time.
• Justification - This concept is mostly about Actualization. Most Pokemon are looking to run the moves of the greatest power possible and to dismantle their foes as rapidly as they are able. We have seen examples of defensive Pokemon who are successful, but tend to think of "Defensive" mons as "Walls" with access to strong recovery, or "Tanks" who have decent defensive stats and typing but still have strong attacking stats and STAB moves. What I want from this concept is a 'mon who never does major damage, but who has the ability to chip in the damage that goes on to define a long slugfest - "Death by a Thousand Cuts", so to speak. You'd think that we have this in the meta, but I'm not so sure - even 'mons who theoretically fall under this umbrella tend to back their chip damage kit with a move to absolutely crush foolish opponents or deal heavy damage to lightweight glass cannons- for instance, Ferrothorn would seem perfect with access to Leech Seed, Toxic, Iron Barbs, and a typing that allows for many switch-ins but even Ferro often packs Gyro Ball and Power Whip to dismantle things alongside its perfectly reasonable 98 attack. A closer example of what I want is Tank Garchomp, who utlizes Rockey Helmet, Rough Skin, Toxic, Stealth Rock, and sometimes Phazing moves like Dragon Tail or Roar to alongside its excellent typing to slowly but surely grind enemies to dust. But even Garchomp can pack STAB Earthquake off a 130 attack stat, which doesn't exactly tickle. Such a Pokemon will have much to analyze in terms of being an effective 'mon in the meta, especially as fundamentally this is a 'mon that slowly drains foes and not a 'mon who spreads status and then dashes out.

• Questions To Be Answered -
  • Status is an obvious way to get "Chip Damage" as is Hazard control, but what are other ways we could explore slow, steady, small hits?
  • A key component of this concept is a 'mon who can "stay in" - how can we achieve such a thing in a meta and world that rewards switching to the right match-up?
    • How important is Typing in being able to "Stay In"? Many of the closest examples of this strategy are Dragon-typed (Pajantom, Garchomp) or Grass-typed (most Seeders but especially Ferrothorn) - what is it about these types that seems to support this strategy?
    • How important is Recovery in being able to "Stay In"?
    • Does a Pokemon need to be able to "Trap" or "Phaze" in order to do this job, or is it possible to accomplish it without these strategies?
  • How can a largely defensive 'mon see success without being overly passive?
  • How can movepool and unpredictability be used to "Rope-a-Dope" in order to support the overall strategy of slowly wearing down foes? (To "Rope-a-Dope" is to bait or lure opponents into using ineffective, exhausting attacks and then striking back when they are drained and weak).
• Explanation - This is a synthesis of all the tidbits I've loved from other suggestions; a call to building a more defensive 'mon, a focus on utilizing technique over brute force, and a broad exploration of how high-skill play such as lures and bait can be used to great effect. By synthesizing all of this towards the goal of actualizing a slow and steady chip damage king, I hope we can explore all of that. I was also inspired by my favorite bit of Doctor Who-ness, lifted from the an old tale. I almost called this concept "The Shepherd Boy" or "The Bird and the Diamond Mountain", but erred on the side of clarity. I leave you with a short paraphrase of "Heavent Sent" from Capaldi's run on Doctor Who.

"The King said, “The third question is, how many seconds of time are there in eternity?” Then said the shepherd boy, “In Lower Pomerania is the Diamond Mountain, which is two miles and a half high, two miles and a half wide, and two miles and a half in depth; every hundred years a little bird comes and sharpens its beak on it, and when the whole mountain is worn away by this, then the first second of eternity will be over. Now, you may say that's a hell of a long time - I say, that's a hell of a bird!"

 

[P3DS]

• Name - It's a Critical Hit
• Description - A Pokemon that can effectively utilize 100% chance Critical Hits.
• Justification - This would be an Actualization and Archetype Concept. Existing Pokemon have tools at their disposal to abuse 100% crits however, they are generally held back by a few issues, namely the required setup, forced item, or that there were usually better, little setup sets out there that give them the edge. Kartarna, Drapion and Kingdra are all examples of Pokémon that could use crits to their advantage, but doing so usually ends up with a lackluster set. On the archetype side, the Pokemon would end up as a Wall Breaker, with the ability to push through tough walls, and break through any status drops.
• Questions To Be Answered -
  • What are various combinations available to perform 100% critical hits?
  • How viable are the methods?
  • Due to different methods taking different amounts of slots/setup, how can we balance different setups on the same build?
  • As critical hits cut through stay changes, how do we balance the pokemon so that it doesn't overwhelm its supposed checks/counters?
• Explanation - During one of the Gen 6 CAPs, I brought up this idea, based on the new 100% Critical Hit mechanics. Crit abuse was funky on Pokemon, but, sadly, it was far too limited at the time to build a Pokemon based around this idea. Skip forward a generation, and we have new tools to take advantage of: new abilities, attacks, and Z moves have the effect of increasing critical hit chance. With these new tools, I believe there is now more than enough options for multiple sets to properly consider this as a viable topic. Some pokemon in gen 6 attempted crit abuse, such as focus energy+sniper kingdra and scope lens+sniper drapion. Kingdra was an interesting one, being able to abuse the crit mechanic of ignoring negative stats to fire off powerful sniper boosted Draco Meteors each turn. Kartarna, in generation 7, could attempt crit abuse, either through scope lens or flyinium Z using leaf blade. A Kingdra style build could devastate with hard hitting negative recoil moves that don't affect damage. Where as a kartarna build could spiral out of control with its strong attacks. I'd also want to point out another pokemon, with a set not used in singles often. Lugia can pull off the same build as Kartarna with Z tailwind in VGC, and crit continously with Aeroblast. It doesn't overwhelm anything too much, but it's combined bulk, power and speed put it in a fine position to sit and attack, but not too much to overwhelm, thus an example of using crits to bolster a maybe lackluster offensive output making a very balanced attacker. (VGC rarely sees stall teams, so Lugia is generally a bulky tailwind user, not a staller.)

 

[SHSP]

Alright folks, between a long discussion between myself and the TLT, we've reached a decision on the concepts being slated. The concepts that follow all hit a golden zone that gives the process good direction through the early, middle and late stages without being too narrow to limit us, while also asking interesting questions about the game and giving us ample chances to learn. Presenting the CAP26 Concept Slate:

Dogfish 44's The Future Is Bright
Birkal's Celebrity Entourage
Jordy's I don't like pebbles and caltrops
Brodaha's King of the Drops
Yoshi's Alchemist
Snake_Rattler's The Return of Speed