CAP 28 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[FierceDeity1]

Name - Knock It Off!

Description - This Pokemon aims to discourage the opponent's use of the move Knock Off.

Justification - This concept falls under the Target category. With Astrolotl at the top of the metagame, as well as other A-rank Pokemon such as Mandibuzz, Toxapex, and Zeraora, Knock Off is currently a very common move. There is little to no risk in using Knock Off currently, so CAP 28 would be used to discourage the opponent from freely using the move. This can be achieved either by taking advantage of the move or completely ignoring it. CAP 28's typing, stats, and movepool should give it a positive matchup against most if not all common users of Knock Off. By putting CAP 28 on your team, you should be able to use Pokemon who are very item-reliant with much less risk of them losing their item.

Questions To Be Answered -

• What traits are shared between common Knock Off users and how can those be exploited?
• Is it better to target specific users of Knock Off, or can we take on all of them?
• What considerations must be made in teambuilding regarding Knock Off? How different would a team look if Knock Off was less of a threat?
• What aspects of the move Knock Off itself can be exploited?
• Is there a case where an itemless Pokemon can be viable?
• Can CAP 28 discourage Knock Off just by not running an item, or does it need a specific mechanic to take advantage it?

Explanation - There are a surprising number of abilities that could accomplish this concept. The first that come to mind are Justified and Rattled, granting an Attack or Speed boost when hit with a Dark attack. Other abilities that interact with held items, such as Unburden or Sticky Hold, could also work. CAP 28's typing as well as stats should probably be chosen to give it a favorable matchup against as many of the top Knock Off users as possible. Because of the diverse distribution of the move, the key to this concept would be picking out the specific traits shared between Knock Off users and having the tools to beat them, even if itemless. I believe that, if this concept succeeds, we could see a shift in the metagame where some Pokemon who hate getting Knocked rise in usage.

 

[MrDollSteak]

Final Submission

Name: Abilities Some Consider to be Unnatural

Description: A Pokemon that manipulates an opposing Pokemon's ability, either by ignoring, suppressing or replacing it.

Justification: This concept is an Actualization concept because it aims to create a Pokemon that can make use of one of the moves or abilities such as Mummy, Neutralizing Gas, Mold Breaker, Skill Swap and Worry Seed as part of its playstyle. In a sense, this is also a Target concept, as many of the strongest Pokemon in the metagame are reliant on their abilities such as Astrolotl, Cinderace, and Equilibra.

Questions to be answered:

What are the benefits of manipulating an opponent's ability in general? Are these best taken advantage of by offensive or defensive Pokemon?
Are there certain match ups where ability manipulation is more useful than others? Is it possible to ensure that ability manipulation gets value against any opposing Pokemon?
By targeting Pokemon that use their ability as a crutch, would Pokemon with lackluster abilities become more popular due to the presence of CAP 28?
Does CAP 28 need to benefit from manipulation an opponent's ability? Or will the manipulation of an opponent's ability be better taken advantage of by a team mate?
Why is ability manipulation for the most part a niche or unsuccessful strategy?
Is there a 'best' ability manipulation move or ability? Does it depend on the context?
How do ability manipulation moves compare against the ability manipulation abilities? Are there any inherent advantages or disadvantages and if so, what are they?
Could CAP 28 make use of multiple different ability manipulation methods? Do some ability manipulation methods favour certain strategies better than others? Would these lead to different sets that play differently from one another?
What synergies exist with the manipulation of an opponent's ability? Are there team strategies where ability manipulation will be more useful?


Explanation: Many of the most viable Pokemon in the current metagame are reliant upon their abilities for their success, and in some cases offer opponent's very little counterplay about how to deal with them. Following the release of Astrolotl and the DLC, Regenerator in particular is seeming to define the Isle of Armor metagame, where the sheer number of effective users of it have seen many balance teams building around or at the very least, including Regenerator cores.

Ability manipulation has for the most part been a fringe or niche mechanic, particularly when it comes to moves such as Worry Seed, Entrainment and Gastro Acid, and is something that CAP hasn't explored to a large extent. Pokemon such as Cofagrigus in BW OU and more recently Galarian Weezing in SS OU, show that there is often a niche for Pokemon designed solely around the idea of replacing or invalidating abilities in the OU or CAP metagames, while Pokemon such as Excadrill and Haxorus have long demonstrated the benefits of ignoring opponent's defensive abilities. In some OMs Skill Swap and Entrainment strategies have also been used to devastating effect when paired with typically unappealing abilities such as Normalize, Truant or Defeatist.

The sheer range of ability manipulation options and strategies means that there are a range of avenues that CAP 28 could go in and will hopefully lead to interesting discussions during various stages. This particular concept will likely work well with the recent 'Defining Moves' and 'Stage Order reassessment' PRC adjustment, as it will be imperative to decide on the particular methods of ability manipulation early on in the project as a means to inform future decisions.

 

[Quanyails]

Name: Onslaught

Description: Create a Pokemon that benefits from being on a team with Pokemon that share similar traits as it. For example, they may share the same ability or use the same attack type.

Justification: This is an Archetype concept. This concept is based on building teams for the metagame that fulfill a certain playstyle.

Questions to be answered:

• Which traits actively benefit from being spammed? Under what conditions do these traits become beneficial?
• Which traits are a detriment to being spammed? Under what conditions do these traits become detrimental?
• When creating a trait-spam team, which other traits can be sacrificed? Which can't?
• To what extent does the teambuilding process differ when designing a team that focuses on trait spam?
• How do trait-spam teams play compared to other team archetypes?
• How do trait-spam teams play against compared to other team archetypes?

Explanation: In some cases, you don't want to repeat Pokemon with similar roles on a team, as their shared weaknesses can cause that team to become dismantled easily. For some team archetypes, however, this repetition can serve beneficial purposes:

• Type-spam teams overwhelm the opponent with strong attacks of a single type after the opponent's checks and counters are down.
• Stacking the ability Regenerator in a core lets the player constantly retain momentum from Regenerator healing when making switches.
• Entry hazards put more pressure on the opponent's switches the more they are stacked.

Thanks to Bencaua, Mx, quziel, and Sunmyser for feedback.

 

[Zephyri]

Final Submission

Name: Hit, Run, Sack, and Repeat

Description: A Pokémon that excels in late-game matchups but can't stay in, so it uses its teammates' lives as fodder to avoid losing momentum

Justification: Sacrifice has been a definitive part of the competitive pokemon meta forever, yet we don't really have too many concepts built around it. If I were to pin this one down, I'd say it's an Actualization based concept... you're actualizing a Pokemon that uses its teammates' sacrifices to win the game later. An example of a similar Pokemon would be a V-Create Victini... a Pokemon that can't stay in for long... so it needs to use it's teammates as sponges to avoid losing momentum or being revenge killed. As for why this concept is interesting, it explores the nuances of team construction and looks at sacrifice as an advantage, not the only option when cornered. The only possibly restricting part of the concept might be that the Pokemon shouldn't really be able to stay in, but I think that there's a lot of design space and interesting possibilities with this idea

Questions To Be Answered:
- Can a sacrifice-based playstyle be encouraged through a Pokemon or is it just the player?
- How would we design the Pokemon so it would benefit from the sacrifice of its teammates?
- Can we make sure that this concept doesn't just turn into another partner concept when we're executing it?
- What are the necessary conditions to make sacrificing teammates effective?
- Why would a Pokemon like this be appealing over the plethora of offensive Pokemon in the meta?
- Do we want this pokemon to be able to beat a majority of the defensive Pokemon at the moment?
- Should this Pokemon provide constant offensive pressure during the late game or should it come in at specific times to take care of specific problematic Pokemon
-What are the routes we could take when designing a Pokemon that steadily loses momentum?

Explanation: First concept sub woooooo! I was inspired for his concept when playing against a Gen7 Scarf Victini team. After my Victini check was worn down and I had less Pokemon than they did, he routinely used V-Create, killed one of my members or severely damaged the, switched out, and let me kill one of his pokemon. This repeated until I lost the game and he only had Victini.

Although a few pokemon could be used in this, such as Scarf Victini or Band Golisopod, it seems like a relatively unexplored role with interesting learning outcomes. That being said, I think it would give a good jolt to the metagame, as it's a much slower, bulky meta at the moment. If we were to execute this concept, I think something that definitely needs to be looked at is the prevalence of defensive Pokemon, especially the pink blobs.

In my opinion, such a Pokemon would encourage creative and nuanced teambuilding, but wouldn't really define specific Pokemon for a team, differentiating it from the large number of partner concepts that exist.

Thanks to MrDollSteak, Mx, quziel, 20Yelram02 and Snafutari for some really helpful feedback!

 

[MrDollSteak]

Had some spare time so I figured that writing out some thoughts on people's concepts would be helpful!

The Stat Bully

I don't think this is a bad idea per se, but considering Astrolotl is the most recently released CAP and makes use of the defense drops from Fire Lash to great effect, I think the timing is a little off. Another thing to consider is that Intimidate Tomohawk has been a staple this generation. I think some kind of explanation about what makes this concept different to existing stat droppers wouldn't be remiss.

Silicon

I think this a very interesting concept. Walls are a big part of the current metagame, and the idea of having a fatal flaw is certainly something that gives the project a good amount of focus. I think as Quziel mentioned, exploring what constitutes a fatal flaw will likely be crucial to this project, whether its just typing, or whether item reliance (such as say Heavy Duty Boots) or a shallow movepool can also be considered flaws.

Roadblock

This is a real stand out to me so far. I think as you mention pivoting is in a very frustrating place in the current metagame, and designing a pokemon around stopping them to some extent is certainly worth striving for. I think there's a lot of directions the project can go in, and finding an interesting and viable way to punish pivots will be the source of great discussion.

Gender Roles

I'm not opposed to this idea, but it does strike me as being more appropriate for a framework. Even if they're both nominally the same pokemon, there will be pressure on artists to design two variations and on modellers to implement them. This in conjunction with the slightly reduced timeframe on this project will likely be a bit too restrictive.

I've Got You Covered

Designing a versatile Pokemon is certainly interesting, however, I think this particular description kind of reminds me of Equilibra to an extent, in regards to walling off certain counters based on ability choice. I know there are more directions in which to take this project than just this, but I think recent history shows that scouting which counters can effectively coutner the opposing Pokemon can be a bit uninteractive.

Teaching an Old Dog New Tricks

I personally love the idea behind this, even if I do think it is probably quite hard to make work. Generational differences are pretty hard to overcome in the sense that many of these old strategies have fallen out of favour for specific reasons, nevertheless I think that designing a CAP to replicate a strategy with all of a current generations tools at its disposal will at the very least lead to very interesting discussions.

I'm No Lazy Weakling

I'm not a massive fan of this concept at this stage because it doesn't seem very deep or interesting. It strikes me at this stage as being just a generically good Pokemon. I think it would be worth clarifying what makes a Wallbreaker or as you add on, a utility counter, interesting to design around, what will we learn from it except that making a strong pokemon that can punch through walls is strong?

Practicing One Kick 10,000 Times

This was one that I liked quite a bit from CAP 27. Ultimately my feedback is similar to last time, which is that the key to making this an interesting and exciting project is to strike the right balance between its defensive or utility options and its one spammable moves. I think however that considering Astrolotl has inadvertently taken on this mantle with Fire Lash being its one spammable move, makes me less inclined to vote on this concept purely because it strikes me as something that we've actualised recently.

Gun Fort

I think this project has some great design space, and is one of the standouts at the moment. This is ultimately a concept about role compression which I love, and specifically, two quite contradictory roles. It also reminds me of your concept from CAP 27, where depending on the timing within the match, the role of the Pokemon can change immensely. I think there's a lot of room to explore how to construct this, and the added specificity on the roles of wall and set-up sweeper give it enough scope to be deep while keeping discussion focused.

Paste Eater

I think that there is room for an interesting process here, but can't help but feel based on your analogy of Plasmanta, that it's somewhat doomed as a concept if the glue killer is easily defeated by another Pokemon, that will ultimately end up as part of the core.

Ahead of the Curve

I like this concept a lot. Priority is certainly something which has been explored before, but is however, now in a weak enough position, that it will be possible to learn a lot about how priority can be viable in the current metagame. Conkeldurr was a viable priority user earlier in the metagame, but has fallen down in usage already. I think there are a range of interesting questions that will come up as a result of this process and we will be able to learn alot.

Form and Function

As others have mentioned, this is better as a framework and not as a concept. Having to design multiple forms both artistically and in terms of balance is a bit beyond the scope of a normal concept, and particularly with the added time constraints this process is operating under, it will just not be feasible.

No STAB? No Problem!

I actually really like this concept. It seems quite shallow at first glance, but really thinking about it, I think there is a significant amount of depth in terms of decision making, particularly with choosing a typing. I like the idea that the project is aiming to make undesirable types desirable through coverage, but also the potential building restrictions of choosing a great type and not being able to take advantage of its offensive and defensive moves. Some questions I have is whether as a dual-type it's unable to use either of its type moves. Overall I think it presents a very interesting challenge, and one that I think will be a very enjoyable process.

Patience is the Key

I think this is a very interesting concept although unfortunately because of how low Teleport's priority currently is, one that won't ultimately be able to interact well with them, except for say Circle Throw and Dragon Tail, which admittedly are interesting moves.

Boxing Gloves

I think there's room for this to be a great project. As we've seen from Stratagem, Syclant and Crucibelle, designing around bad typings can lead to some very interesting processes. I think that theres some good room to explore this even more now in Gen 8 because of our favorite pair of boots, among other things.

You're Going Down With Me

This is quite an interesting concept that we've seen variants of popping up in recent projects. I think there is some good room for exploring how to do this well with moves like Explosion, Final Gambit and Healing Wish. My only reservation is seeing how Astrolotl has recently proven to be quite an effective user of Explosion, especially against walls like Toxapex.

43% Non-Toxic

I can certainly see where this concept is coming from, and do agree that there are some interesting considerations to make in regards to regular poison instead of Toxic, but nevertheless, find it a bit restrictive.

Anti-Stereotype

I think this is an interesting concept, as we have seen in the past, but I think you should definitely work on the post a bit more. I would recommend looking back over the winning concepts for Crucibelle, Stratagem and Syclant for an idea about how you could phrase questions. I'd also think about why is this a good time to return to the concept. Why is Gen 8 a time to be looking at bad typings?

Knock It Off!

The timing is great on this one. Definitely in agreement that Knock Off is a bit overtuned at the moment, and that discouraging it is welcomed. I like that you've mentioned a few existing abilities such as Justified and Sticky Hold that can both work well in different ways. I think the key to getting this to work is to consider how to make the project as deep as possible. What is there to learn about Knock Off for example? What will we learn about by choosing a method to stop it?

Onslaught

An interesting concept! My only worry about it is the timing, as the Isle of Armor has in many cases become the Regenerator meta. Since we are already seeing the spamming of Regenerator mons, I think the suggestion of designing another Regenerator mon, especially after Astrolotl, may be a hard sell, and as such, it might be better to accentuate the Type Spam element of it. Especially since Ghost spam was a viable strategy at the start of Sword and Shield, and has increasingly fallen in viability. I think that is the more interesting element of the proposal.

Hit, Run, Sack, and Repeat

I think there's some great design space here. It's certainly an interesting concept that gets one thinking about team composition and value. Knowing when it can be worth sacking a team mate to get an advantage is an important element of battling and a concept designed around supporting this idea will likely lead to some very interesting discussions about the metagame.

 

[Yay61]

WIP

Name – Catch All

Description – A Pokemon that can counter a wide variety of pokemon, but is very prone to being overwhelmed.

Justification- This is an archetype project, as it fills the role of a versatile bulky pokemon that can adapt to differing threats. This is important for the metagame as it allows for greater team diversity and can supplement different cores to avoid needing very similar defensive backbones for a solid team.

Questions To Be Answered –

• What defensive pokemon have thrived despite their lack of recovery? How did they overcome these flaws?
• What pokemon and team structures appreciate blanket checks the most?
• Many pokemon like this in the past have centralised the meta. How can this be controlled, or could some level of centralisation be healthy for the metagame?
• What typings, both defensively and offensively would be conducive to this role? Should this pokemon have clear, exploitable weaknesses or be hindered primarily by its own limited lifespan?

Explanation – A great example of a pokemon like this is Landorus-T, which cemented itself as a top pokemon last generation despite its lack of recovery, which allowed most of the pokemon it checked to make consistent progress against it. Having other pokemon that can fill this role in the metagame eases teambuilding and can allow for more diversity and offensive pokemon to be seen on all team archetypes. Also, unlike other defensive stalwarts such as Tomohawk, these pokemon can be ultimately overcome without the need for specific breakers or pressure to abuse these walls.

 

[Mx]

I'm very excited to see such a great number of submissions this time! I think it's time I start giving some feedback:

The Stat Bully (dex18): Stat drops are definitely an very interesting topic to explore, as on one hand, they're inherently less powerful than set up moves because the opponent can switch out, but on the other hand, the fact that the opponent has more counterplay to it means they're less volatile, which (at least in theory) make them more flexible to work with. I think you should check out this old submission for CAP 26, as I think you could use a few of its ideas, particularly for your questions. That being said, we just finished Astrolotl, a Pokemon that excels at using stat drops thanks to Fire Lash, so I think that the timing for this submission is a bit unfortunate. I think this is workable if you try to put more emphasis in trying to make this particular mon use stat drops in a unique way that hasn't been seen before

Silicon (20Yelram02): I think that it would be interesting for CAP to create a more dedicated wall, as we usually tend to create more offensive products. However, I must say that I'm not convinced that simply trying to make it have one glaring weakness would be enough to base whole process around it. Also, I'd frankly think Toxapex is just a bad example of a wall with "a crippling weakness". The fact that Toxapex lacks major flaws is one of the main reasons why it has been a dominating force since its introduction. If you want other examples, you could always use Blissey, which can wall virtually anything on the Special side, but it's very frail on the physical front.

Roadblock (Pipotchi): I like this concept a lot. Pivoting has been an important part of Pokemon since its inception, but this generation, the advent of Heavy-Duty Boots and the Teleport buff has made them more prominent than ever before, so I think this could be a fascinating topic to tackle for CAP 28. Something I would consider changing is adding a specific mention of Heavy-Duty Boots and Regenerator to the list of strategies to shut down at the beginning of your justification, as I think trying to counter those would also add a lot to the possibilities for this concept.

Gender Roles (JAGFL): I'm not really sure on how legal the idea of implementing gender-based abilities/stats/moves is, but I admit it could lead to an interesting discussion on how small changes can have a huge impact on the roles a Pokemon can play. Unfortunately, I think this is really a bad time for a concept like this, as the TLT wants to complete CAP 28 in three months so that we can implement it before the Crown Tundra releases, and a concept like this would require additional time to discuss the difference between each gender (as in the end, this concept should require either 2 stat submission, 2 full ability discussions, or 2 moveset discussions), and I'm not sure we can afford that.

I've Got You Covered! (Scizivire): I think most Pokemon have the option to pick their checks, at least to a certain extent. Many past projects have discussed and implemented having different checks depending on the specific set, so I'm not really sure we have much to learn from this. Additionally, Levitate/Bulletproof Equilibra is one of the main things that comes to my mind when thinking about a Pokemon that can drastically change its checks, and while perhaps that's a bit of an extreme example, I think it goes to show how uncompetitive the idea of picking your checks can easily get in practice.

Teaching a Old Dog New Tricks (SunMYSER): Trying to implement old tactics to the current metagame is one of those ideas that I think has been around CAP since forever. That said, these kind of ideas have been around for a reason, as I think it could definitely work for a great project. A minor nitpick would be that I wouldn't include the Gen 5 weather wars nor Gen 1 Normal-type wallbreakers as examples, as the first one was something we can't replicate with just one Pokemon, and the latter would directly imply typing. If you want other examples that could fit the concept, I think Pinch Berry sweepers and Explosion users could be good ones.

I'm No Lazy Weakling! (Ducky Mioda): Combining the roles of defensive pivot and wallbreaker is an interesting idea, but as quziel already said, this is currently lacking in direction, as terms like "wallbreaker" and "utility counter" are way too broad, I think that adding a few question about the possibility of using different status moves and other possible tactics. Also, mentioning that it'd be specifically designed to tear down every single wall in the CAP metagame by using both Physical and Special moves is not a good idea at this stage, as it's still way too early to decide that CAP 28 will beat all walls, and there's no reason to pigeonhole us into a mixed attacker (and the OP of this thread already discourages including physical/special bias into concepts).

Practicing One Kick 10,000 Times (snake_rattler): Simply a great solid submission. Not much else to say about it other than I think it can lead to a great final product, and I don't think there's any real risk of this turning into Dracovish 2.0, as I believe that everyone on the TLT will be doing their best to prevent that outcome.

Gun Fort (quziel): Another overall well constructed submission. I guess if I wanted to nitpick anything, it would be that CAP doesn't have a great track record when creating set-up sweepers, but I'm pretty confidant we can execute this concept without too many issues if we take it seriously.

Paste Eater (-Voltage-): Studying how certain common cores work and how to dismantle them is certainly a very solid foundation for a concept. I think I'd like to see a few a more concrete examples on how we could implement this concept, because right now, I'm not sure how we would build this without either being broken like Dracovish or overspecialized like Plasmanta.

Ahead of the Curve (G-Luke): Priority has always been an interesting topic in Pokemon, as it can turn a matchup on its head by allowing the slower Pokemon to attack first, and thanks to the myriad of priority moves available, there's a very healthy amount of options we could mix and match for this. A small nitpick, I'd change exploit in your description. as it makes it ambiguous whether you are using the priority moves or you are punishing the opponent for utilizing them.

Form and Function (Darek851): As I said before, this is an illegal submission, as this would require adding custom elements in order to work. Abilities like Zen Mode or Stance Change wouldn't prevent this issue, as they're hardcoded to only work on Darmanitan and Aegislash respectively. and would not work if you gave them to any other Pokemon.

No STAB? No Problem! (Slapperfish): This is an interesting idea, but I think that if this that you should establish from the start that a Pokemon not learning any STAB moves is a strict disadvantage as there's no good reason why something wouldn't want to have the option to run STAB moves, even if it wouldn't use them in practice. If you take this into consideration, you could base the rest of the concept around trying to compensate for that flaw, instead of somehow trying to turn it into a positive, which I don't think it's realistic.

Patience Is The Key (Gekokeso): Having to play around negative sounds like an interesting challenge, although I'm not completely sure there are enough good ones to have an interesting discussion. Also, if you want to make a concept around I really think you should try yo discuss some other interesting moves to explore like Avalanche, Revenge, Beak Blast, or Focus Punch, not just Circle Throw/Dragon Tail.

Boxing Gloves (Rabia): Overly optimized typings have been a feature of CAP ever since Syclant. Because that stage comes first, there is little incentive to pick anything other than the most optimal combination, as later stages can always be scaled down if power becomes an issue. This fact alone means that this concept should prove to be a very interesting challenge for the whole community, and could lead to a very fun unique product. Something I would put more emphasis on your questions is trying to establish a clearer definition for bad typing, as I think that can vary a lot depending on how we would define it.

You're Going Down With Me (Knight who says "Ni"): Given that I submitted a similar concept for CAP 27, it should come as no surprise that I like this idea, especially if you were to flesh it out more. I think you would benefit a lot from taking a few notes from my past concept, in particular, the questions regarding what is the most optimal time for sacrificing yourself and how can we affect the game even after leaving the field could add a lot of depth to your concept.

In case I haven't covered your concept yet, don't worry, I'm planning on giving another round of feedback tomorrow. I'm really liking the discussion until now, so let's keep it up everyone!

 

[Riguor]

Name: Going Critical!

Description: The pokemon is designed to reliably land critical hits to take advantage of their unique mechanics.

Justification: Actualization, a pokemon dedicated to critical hits has never really been more than a gimmick set on pokemon with much better options available. Urshifu kind of does this, but it's limited to just a single signature move in either form and otherwise doesn't do anything else with it.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Intimidate and Hazing don't work to get rid of boosted critical hit rates, so what defensive counterplay would this have?
• Usually a pokemon has to make some kind of sacrifice for a boosted critical hit rate (a more generally useful item, moveslot, or ability is given up). How can we make a pokemon that avoids most of these pitfalls and encourages use of its defining feature?
• Going with the above, in a generation where knock off is more powerful than ever, should we try to avoid making it reliant on its held item to achieve this?

Explanation: Critical hits have untapped potential, and there's more variety than people think. Super Luck, Scope Lens, Sniper, and Focus Energy are the obvious first thoughts, and at least one would almost certainly supplement it in some way. Frost Breath and Storm Throw are guaranteed critical hit moves that require no setup but are hindered by a lack of base power. Merciless is also a consideration, an ability that makes all hits to poisoned targets crits. The Lansat Berry (normally gives +2 crit level at 25% hp or less, 50% or less with gluttony) alongside Stuff Cheeks, a new move introduced this gen can turn into an interesting boosting move that gives the +2 crit level immediately regardless of hp alongside a +2 defense buff. Critical hits also bypass self attacking drops and enemy defensive buffs, so this could potentially be a pokemon that could use a nuke move like Draco Meteor without the need to immediately switch out, or be an out to an opponent that has set up with a few defensive boosts.
(Laser Focus is also an option, but it's essentially just an extra charge turn for any move and I don't think it can be made viable)

 

[Astra]

Name: Cheapskate

Description: This Pokemon only has a select handful of "useful" moves, but the great synergy the moves have with each other and the Pokemon itself allows the Pokemon to perform a wide variety of roles on many team playstyles.

Justification: This concept would mostly fall into both the Actualization and Archetype categories. This Pokemon's identity would come from the fact that it can easily flex onto any team that requires any role while having a smaller pool of useful moves to work with when compared to other Pokemon. Moreover, the fact that this Pokemon has a very small useful movepool by itself would grant it an identity, as such a trait is often why a Pokemon would lack viability in a metagame, yet this Pokemon specific would be able to break such a stereotype.

Questions to be Answered:

• What specific roles would this Pokemon be able to play with a small useful movepool?
• Likewise, what team playstyles would this Pokemon be able to play on?
• What combination of moves would this Pokemon need in order to be viable while only having a small useful movepool?
• How would this Pokemon's other aspects, such as typing, stats, and abilities, compensate for its small useful movepool?
• What exactly makes a move "useful" for a Pokemon? What makes a move "useful" to one Pokemon but useless to another Pokemon?

Explanation: Many Pokemon are viable in whatever metagame they're in with big thanks to their movepool, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their movepool has to be huge like, say, Magearna in SS OU. A good example of a top tier Pokemon that has a rather limited movepool is Landorus-T in SM OU. At first glance, Landorus-T's movepool seems rather lacking; its best Flying-type STAB move is Fly, for goodness sake. But, due to how much synergy these moves have with each other and Landorus-T's other aspects, Landorus-T is able to excel in SM OU on many different playstyles with many different movesets. With its small "useful" movepool, Landorus-T is able to pull off around four, consistent sets (Choice Scarf, Z-Move, Defensive, and Suicide Lead), and many of the moves overlap between sets (many moves on are at least two sets, Stealth Rock is on three of them, and Earthquake is on all of them). Now, the interesting part about Landorus-T's "useful" movepool is that some its moves are arguably not "useful" as a move alone compared to its other moves. For example, Earthquake on paper is a very reliable Ground-type move, while Fly is particularly useless at a glance (and usually in practice as well), but its by virtue of Landorus-T's other aspects and access to other tools allows it to find use in Fly. Specifically, Landorus-T is able to utilize Flyinium Z and its great offensive stats in order to provide itself with a powerful STAB Flying-type move it lacks in order to face Pokemon that would otherwise wall it, such as Tangrowth. Even if a Pokemon's movepool is shallow, sometimes using what you got alongside that Pokemon's other aspect can make moves that would otherwise be rather lacking "useful." Landorus-T's small "useful" movepool, for example, is supported by a great typing that goes offensively and defensively, all-around stats, and a great ability in Intimidate, amplifying its moves' usefulness as well as finding use for moves that don't seem that great at first glance; therefore, having a small "useful" movepool definitely doesn't invalidate a Pokemon's viability immediately. Since this concept would warrant CAP 28 to have only a few moves it can find use in, its other aspects would need definitely be molded around its movepool in a way that allows the Pokemon to perform a variety of roles, which could very well be an interesting challenge in itself, considering the order of the stage of the CAP process.

 

[Birkal]

Name: A Stable Clefable

Description: This Pokemon aims to fill some of the void left by the recent banning of Clefable from the CAP SS metagame, through emulating several of its roles in both teambuilding and battling.

Justification: This is a Target category concept.

We are in unprecedented times of CAP, in that we have voted to ban Clefable from the CAP metagame. While it's not new for CAP to be making Pokemon for a metagame other than OU, this does represent the first time we've banned a GameFreak Pokemon from our custom metagame outside of the banning process of the OU metagame, and we should capitalize on this occasion by exploring it with the CAP process. Through this concept, we will target what roles Clefable played in the CAP metagame and what unique circumstances led to its ultimate banning. Furthermore, we'll explore how to reintroduce some of those roles back into the CAP metagame, both in building cohesive teams with this new creation in a way relatively similar (but not identical) to Clefable, and in-battle through providing similar switch-ins, utility, and variability.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Basic: What lead to Clefable's banning from the CAP metagame? Have other metagames considered banning Clefable, both in other tiers and in past metagames? What specific traits pushed it over the edge?
• Basic: What roles did Clefable fulfill in teambuilding while present in the CAP metagame? How could a teambuilder determine if a team would be best off with the addition of Clefable?
• Basic: What roles did Clefable fulfill in battling while present in the CAP metagame? How could a battler utilize Clefable to get consistent wins, on both the ladder and in tournament play?
• Intermediate: Why did CAP specifically ban Clefable, as opposed to other metagames? What is unique about the CAP metagame that justified both a suspect test and an ultimate banning of this Pokemon? Furthermore, how has the CAP metagame flourished since the banning of Clefable? Which Pokemon have come to viability, and has that been through fulfilling roles similar to Clefable, or simply through increased usage due to the counter that Clefable used to provide to it?
• Intermediate: How have teambuilders filled the void left by Clefable? Have they favored Pokemon that have similar Fairy-type typing? Or have they looked for Pokemon that can take Toxic, residual damage, and entry hazards? Or perhaps Pokemon with Clefable's breath of movepool that allow it to host a variety of wincons depending on which moveset they choose? Or have they strayed from typical team builds that Clefable was popular in entirely, such as foregoing stall?
• Advanced: How far can we stray from Clefable's inherent characteristics (typing / abilities / movepool) while still compressing at least some of the multitude of roles it once fulfilled? How far can you abstract the identity of a Pokemon into a new creation, while still maintaining some semblance of its initial muse?
• Advanced: Using all of the above information, how can we recreate some of the roles Clefable once played in the CAP metagame, specifically while keeping it balanced? Which parts of Clefable are worth keeping alive in the metagame, and which ones are irredeemable? Which roles are seen as a positive aspect of a metagame, and which are conversely negative?

Explanation: Clefable is an interesting Pokemon to discuss; it has a long and varied history in competitive Pokemon. Its consideration in the competitive world of Pokemon even dates back to RBY, when it was an underused utility pick to provide unpredictability to a team. But due to its paltry stats (which haven't changed in 24 years, by the way) and mediocre typing, it would continue to suffer in the competitive metagame. True, its popularity did increase up until DPP, where Clefable was praised for its diverse movepool and Magic Guard, but its usage started to trend downward in BW due to the explosion of powerful Pokemon introduced into the BW OU metagame.

Enter Fairy-type in XY, which led to a meteoric increase in Clefable usage. Thanks to its new typing, it could fulfill defensive roles in teambuilding much more easily. For three generations since, Clefable has maintained its OU status primarily with sets involving Calm Mind, but not without frequent mix-ups in what support it provides for its team. Not much has changed about Clefable itself since in three generations, until this generation which saw the inclusion of a new mechanism on Teleport which allowed Clefable (and other Pokemon) to become slow pivots. This change, plus the overall evolution of the metagame thanks to new Pokemon from both us and GameFreak, has prompted CAP battlers to propose and eventually agree to a ban on Clefable.

As detailed at the top of this concept, this is the first time we've banned a Pokemon from the CAP metagame, meaning that this is the ideal time to explore the banning's aftereffects on a metagame. It will also prove to be an interesting case study in how a metagame changes and adapts when a popular Pokemon is removed from its roster. As an aside, this concept is not meant to be critical of the banning of Clefable from the CAP metagame; I consider it a necessary move on our part in order to continuously curate a fun, balanced metagame. Rather, we would aim to explore which of Clefable's roles have been replicated by other Pokemon, and which ones have fallen out of favor in the CAP metagame. Throughout this process, we would host a myriad of conversations discussing teambuilding challenges, popularity in battling strategies, and what holes are left in both through the banning of a singular, centralizing Pokemon.

 

[Wolf134]

Name: Speed control 101

Description: This Pokemon utilizes a bevy of speed control options at its disposal.

Justification: This concept more or less falls into the Actualization category. How CAP28 would go about carving out its place in the current metagame is a relatively simple one; increase its own speed, decrease its opponent's speed, or a combination of both to its own advantage and to a lesser extent, that of its teammates. There are plenty of ways that Pokemon can increase their own speed, or lower that of its opponents.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What constitutes a good speed control set on any given Pokemon?
• How important is speed control in the current metagame?
• What are some underutilized alternatives to more popular forms of speed control that may be leveraged? Moreover, what unique merits do said alternatives bring to the table?
• How can CAP28 alter its own speed tier and/or that of its opponents to it's own advantage?
• What underutilized or popular playstyles can be enhanced using speed control?
• How can CAP28 effectively circumvent opposing speed control?

Explanation: The inspiration for this particular concept stems from a quick peruse through Bulbapedia, in looking up various moves. One move in particular stuck out to me the most; String shot. This same inspiration also came from my experience playing early into Omega Ruby, against a Wurmple in the early routes. I can easily envision an offensive CAP28 using some speed control move plus 3 other attacks to pull off a sweep. By that same token, I can see a more defensive CAP28 employing speed control to cripple its opponent with a lower speed stat than itself, subsequently switching out at its leisure. So I would like to see CAP28 utilize this among a great many other options that either boost its own speed, and/or lowers that of its opponents, and do fairly well for itself, if not win outright.

 

[reachzero]

Final Submission


Name - Substitute Teacher

Description - This Pokemon does its best work behind a Substitute.

Justification- This concept is an archetype concept with a splash of target thrown in: the goal is to build a Substitute abuser capable of addressing the host of offensively-challenged defensive Pokemon that currently dominate the CAP metagame. Many, many games are being decided by the player that lands their Toxic and Knock Off on the correct enemy Pokemon first, and the dominance of this strategy of small, accumulated gains and incremental progress would be tempered considerably by a dedicated Substitute abuser.

Questions To Be Answered -

What are the defining characteristics of strong Substitute users?

Which Substitute abuse tactics are the most effective in addressing a range of defensive Pokemon as diverse as Toxapex, Blissey and Astrolotl?

How have traditional benchmarks associated with Substitute abuse moved? (For instance, do 101 HP Substitutes even still matter?)

What are the consequences for the metagame of increasing the risks involved with pivot use? How will defensive play adapt?


Explanation - Substitute abuse is a traditional staple of the wallbreaker playbook, yet Substitute abuse strangely unexplored in Generation 8. There is no Zygarde, no Breloom, no Suicune. As a result, Knock Off and Toxic incredibly metagame-defining, and designing a threat that can punish lack of offensive presence would go a long way to bring momentum back to the metagame.

 

[chuckeroo777]

Final Submission

Name - Hidden Potential

Description - This Pokemon is designed to make use of Multi-Attack and memories to gain unexpected type coverage at the expense of its item.
Justification - This is an actualization concept, focusing on the use of a niche move that are unlike anything currently used in the meta-game.
Questions to be answered -
What kind of Pokemon wants a variable type move?
How can we ensure that multiple memory types are viable?
Does the move work best on a sweeper, wall-breaker, or something else?
How does this Pokemon compare to past users of Hidden Power?
Does such a Pokemon need to be a physical attacker, or can Multi-Attack work as mixed coverage?
Explanation - Hidden Power has been a staple in the metagame ever since its introduction in Gen 2. Gen 8 is the first gen without this near universal move. This concept is inspired by the idea of a Pokemon capable of using a similar move.
Multi-Attack is a powerful coverage move, but thanks to its ability, Silvally is only able to use it with stab. What kind of uses could a Pokemon with a fixed type find for this move? A Normal type could be interesting, sacrificing solid stab for powerful coverage.
Originally, I wanted to make this about Techno-Blast, but that move does not exist in Sword/Shield.

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

WIP

Name -CAP Concept Makeover

Description- Take a previously unviable CAP concept in the current meta game and remake the concept.
Justification- I think this is an actualization concept, focused on breathing new life into old ideas.
Questions to be Awnsered-
Where in the original process lead the CAPmon to be unviable in the meta game?
How has our understanding of the CAP process changed since the original CAP concept was created?
How do we improve upon the original concept without completely changing the spirit of the original design?
Explanation- In Yugioh, certain cards become less effective over the years due to power creep. So later down the road, the cards gets a retrain or given extra support to try and make them viable again. Ex: BLS gets BLS Envoy of the Beginning and later BLS Super Solider as retrains of the orig concept. I want to take that idea and apply it to a previous CAP concept. For example, Voodooms concept of being a perfect partner for Togekiss doesn't exactly stand up because togekiss has changed drastically since Gen 4.

I know this sounds like a unoriginal idea and bad idea but I think this would be an interesting project to pursue.

 

[dex]

I'm very excited to see such a great number of submissions this time! I think it's time I start giving some feedback:

The Stat Bully (dex18): Stat drops are definitely an very interesting topic to explore, as on one hand, they're inherently less powerful than set up moves because the opponent can switch out, but on the other hand, the fact that the opponent has more counterplay to it means they're less volatile, which (at least in theory) make them more flexible to work with. I think you should check out this old submission for CAP 26, as I think you could use a few of its ideas, particularly for your questions. That being said, we just finished Astrolotl, a Pokemon that excels at using stat drops thanks to Fire Lash, so I think that the timing for this submission is a bit unfortunate. I think this is workable if you try to put more emphasis in trying to make this particular mon use stat drops in a unique way that hasn't been seen before

Silicon (20Yelram02): I think that it would be interesting for CAP to create a more dedicated wall, as we usually tend to create more offensive products. However, I must say that I'm not convinced that simply trying to make it have one glaring weakness would be enough to base whole process around it. Also, I'd frankly think Toxapex is just a bad example of a wall with "a crippling weakness". The fact that Toxapex lacks major flaws is one of the main reasons why it has been a dominating force since its introduction. If you want other examples, you could always use Blissey, which can wall virtually anything on the Special side, but it's very frail on the physical front.

Roadblock (Pipotchi): I like this concept a lot. Pivoting has been an important part of Pokemon since its inception, but this generation, the advent of Heavy-Duty Boots and the Teleport buff has made them more prominent than ever before, so I think this could be a fascinating topic to tackle for CAP 28. Something I would consider changing is adding a specific mention of Heavy-Duty Boots and Regenerator to the list of strategies to shut down at the beginning of your justification, as I think trying to counter those would also add a lot to the possibilities for this concept.

Gender Roles (JAGFL): I'm not really sure on how legal the idea of implementing gender-based abilities/stats/moves is, but I admit it could lead to an interesting discussion on how small changes can have a huge impact on the roles a Pokemon can play. Unfortunately, I think this is really a bad time for a concept like this, as the TLT wants to complete CAP 28 in three months so that we can implement it before the Crown Tundra releases, and a concept like this would require additional time to discuss the difference between each gender (as in the end, this concept should require either 2 stat submission, 2 full ability discussions, or 2 moveset discussions), and I'm not sure we can afford that.

I've Got You Covered! (Scizivire): I think most Pokemon have the option to pick their checks, at least to a certain extent. Many past projects have discussed and implemented having different checks depending on the specific set, so I'm not really sure we have much to learn from this. Additionally, Levitate/Bulletproof Equilibra is one of the main things that comes to my mind when thinking about a Pokemon that can drastically change its checks, and while perhaps that's a bit of an extreme example, I think it goes to show how uncompetitive the idea of picking your checks can easily get in practice.

Teaching a Old Dog New Tricks (SunMYSER): Trying to implement old tactics to the current metagame is one of those ideas that I think has been around CAP since forever. That said, these kind of ideas have been around for a reason, as I think it could definitely work for a great project. A minor nitpick would be that I wouldn't include the Gen 5 weather wars nor Gen 1 Normal-type wallbreakers as examples, as the first one was something we could replicate with just one Pokemon, and the latter would directly imply typing. If you want other examples that could fit the concept, I think Pinch Berry sweepers and Explosion users could be good ones.

I'm No Lazy Weakling! (Ducky Mioda): Combining the roles of defensive pivot and wallbreaker is an interesting idea, but as quziel already said, this is currently lacking in direction, as terms like "wallbreaker" and "utility counter" are way too broad, I think that adding a few question about the possibility of using different status moves and other possible tactics. Also, mentioning that it'd be specifically designed to tear down every single wall in the CAP metagame by using both Physical and Special moves is not a good idea at this stage, as it's still way too early to decide that CAP 28 will beat all walls, and there's no reason to pigeonhole us into a mixed attacker (and the OP of this thread already discourages including physical/special bias into concepts).

Practicing One Kick 10,000 Times (snake_rattler): Simply a great solid submission. Not much else to say about it other than I think it can lead to a great final product, and I don't think there's any real risk of this turning into Dracovish 2.0, as I believe that everyone on the TLT will be doing their best to prevent that outcome.

Gun Fort (quziel): Another overall well constructed submission. I guess if I wanted to nitpick anything, it would be that CAP doesn't have a great track record when creating set-up sweepers, but I'm pretty confidant we can execute this concept without too many issues if we take it seriously.

Paste Eater (-Voltage-): Studying how certain common cores work and how to dismantle them is certainly a very solid foundation for a concept. I think I'd like to see a few a more concrete examples on how we could implement this concept, because right now, I'm not sure how we would build this without either being broken like Dracovish or overspecialized like Plasmanta.

Ahead of the Curve (G-Luke): Priority has always been an interesting topic in Pokemon, as it can turn a matchup on its head by allowing the slower Pokemon to attack first, and thanks to the myriad of priority moves available, there's a very healthy amount of options we could mix and match for this. A small nitpick, I'd change exploit in your description. as it makes it ambiguous whether you are using the priority moves or you are punishing the opponent for utilizing them.

Form and Function (Darek851): As I said before, this is an illegal submission, as this would require adding custom elements in order to work. Abilities like Zen Mode or Stance Change wouldn't prevent this issue, as they're hardcoded to only work on Darmanitan and Aegislash respectively. and would not work if you gave them to any other Pokemon.

No STAB? No Problem! (Slapperfish): This is an interesting idea, but I think that if this that you should establish from the start that a Pokemon not learning any STAB moves is a strict disadvantage as there's no good reason why something wouldn't want to have the option to run STAB moves, even if it wouldn't use them in practice. If you take this into consideration, you could base the rest of the concept around trying to compensate for that flaw, instead of somehow trying to turn it into a positive, which I don't think it's realistic.

Patience Is The Key (Gekokeso): Having to play around negative sounds like an interesting challenge, although I'm not completely sure there are enough good ones to have an interesting discussion. Also, if you want to make a concept around I really think you should try yo discuss some other interesting moves to explore like Avalanche, Revenge, Beak Blast, or Focus Punch, not just Circle Throw/Dragon Tail.

Boxing Gloves (Rabia): Overly optimized typings have been a feature of CAP ever since Syclant. Because that stage comes first, there is little incentive to pick anything other than the most optimal combination, as later stages can always be scaled down if power becomes an issue. This fact alone means that this concept should prove to be a very interesting challenge for the whole community, and could lead to a very fun unique product. Something I would put more emphasis on your questions is trying to establish a clearer definition for bad typing, as I think that can vary a lot depending on how we would define it.

You're Going Down With Me (Knight who says "Ni"): Given that I submitted a similar concept for CAP 27, it should come as no surprise that I like this idea, especially if you were to flesh it out more. I think you would benefit a lot from taking a few notes from my past concept, in particular, the questions regarding what is the most optimal time for sacrificing yourself and how can we affect the game even after leaving the field could add a lot of depth to your concept.

In case I haven't covered your concept yet, don't worry, I'm planning on giving another round of feedback tomorrow. I'm really liking the discussion until now, so let's keep it up everyone!

Thanks for the feedback, I edited my idea accordingly.

WIP

Name -CAP Concept Makeover

Description- Take a previously unviable CAP concept in the current meta game and remake the concept.
Justification- I think this is an actualization concept, focused on breathing new life into old ideas.
Questions to be Awnsered-
Where in the original process lead the CAPmon to be unviable in the meta game?
How has our understanding of the CAP process changed since the original CAP concept was created?
How do we improve upon the original concept without completely changing the spirit of the original design?
Explanation- In Yugioh, certain cards become less effective over the years due to power creep. So later down the road, the cards gets a retrain or given extra support to try and make them viable again. Ex: BLS gets BLS Envoy of the Beginning and later BLS Super Solider as retrains of the orig concept. I want to take that idea and apply it to a previous CAP concept. For example, Voodooms concept of being a perfect partner for Togekiss doesn't exactly stand up because togekiss has changed drastically since Gen 4.

I know this sounds like a unoriginal idea and bad idea but I think this would be an interesting project to pursue.

Could be cool to give an evolution to an existing CAP Mon that needs one, kinda like how Gen 4 gave us Tangrowth and Togekiss.

 

[aaronarium]

Final Submission

Name: The Right Type For Me!

Description: This Pokémon takes advantage of moves that change the type of itself or the opponent.

Justification: This would an Actualization concept. In the current metagame and metas of the past, type-changing as a mechanic has only ever seen OU prominence on Greninja/Cinderace (who mostly use Protean/Libero for perpetual STAB) and Flying-types with Roost (who use it as recovery first and foremost, the single-turn removal of the Flying type being just a little side effect). These have validity as strategies that involve type-changing, but I would argue that although type-changing is a part of the strategy, type-changing itself is not the strategy.

That's not to say that it can't be, however. Changing types means you alter a Pokémon's STAB, weaknesses, resistances, and immunities, and that in turn can shake up how both you and the opposing Pokémon are utilized in battle. What this CAP would inspire then, is the exploration and application of changing type as a viable method of gaining a competitive edge. After all, when only 1 out of 10 (as of post-IoA SS) type-changing moves have ever been noteworthy in OU, it is a concept largely unexplored.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Changing your own type or the type of the opponent—in what ways can each apply pressure to the foe and/or support your team, and what makes them unique/viable options for doing such things?
• If this Pokémon is based around changing its own type, what value does its original type hold?
• If this Pokémon is based around changing the opponent's type, how should one regard the foe's original type?
• How can you maximize the benefit you receive from changing a Pokémon's type? Does it depend on the method, target, situation, opponent, or something else entirely?
• How might teambuilding be impacted when the typing of one of the team's members or the types of the foes you face are mutable?
• How can we ensure that type-changing remains a prominent and preferable strategy ahead of other options in this Pokémon's repertoire?
• The corollary to the above question being: in what ways can we ensure type-changing itself is a good strategy, as opposed to being secondary to what this Pokémon might otherwise employ?

Explanation: Changing a Pokémon's "essential qualities" (type, stats, moves, abilities) has almost always been seen as a gimmicky endeavor, and it isn't hard to see why. Their very concept is, by nature, less reliable than a strategy where you know how it will work every time. For example, why would you change your speed using Speed Swap when other other methods of speed control like Sticky Web and boosting moves are easier to use and more broadly applicable?

With the introduction of Protean in Gen 6, a sort of paradigm shift occurred with regards to changing type, where the agency regarding changing an essential quality lay solely with the user, and Protean's user, Greninja, blossomed for it. Although type-changing abilities are frowned upon in CAP due to how they can muddle both the typing and ability stages, I still wanted to use Protean as an example due to how it provided one of the earliest glimpses into changing type as a viable strategy.

In the past, we have also seen the use of similar-but-different tactics with moves that remove certain type immunities like Foresight on some spinners and Smack Down on Ground offense (not to mention the craziness of Thousand Arrows Zygarde). While these are not type-changing moves in the truest sense of the phrase, they help to peel back the layers and ask questions on how a powerful type-changing strategy could be implemented. For example, why is it more advantageous to use Smack Down + Ground move instead of simply going for something like Stone Edge two turns in a row? And how can we extrapolate this idea to apply to moves like Soak or Trick-or-Treat? What about the reverse, where we consider the advantages of using something like Reflect Type over switching to a resist, like how Latias has been known to utilize in the past?

What I'm trying to get at here is that despite its problems, changing type doesn't need to be chained down by "gimmicky" labels, especially when there are numerous ways to approach this deceptively broad concept. We might find ourselves exploiting the applications of changing type on a dime with Conversion, discover new and useful contexts for Transform, use Magic Powder in unexpected ways, or something else entirely!

Also, for reference, here is the list of moves that change a Pokémon's type. In case it is relevant, Camouflage is the only one not currently present in SS.

Big thanks to quziel, spoo, Mx, MrDollSteak, and everyone else who commented and helped me flesh this out!

 

[Mx]

Alright, round 2 of TL Feedback for all concepts:

Spinner and Powering up (Airwind): While the Gen 8 buff to Rapid Spin gives it a very unique mix of utility and offense, I'm not really sold on basing an entire process only around this move. I think you should consider rebranding this idea around trying to utilize one or various new or improved moves from Gen 8, as this would still leave Rapid Spin on the table, but it would also open the possibility of exploring other interesting moves like Shell Side Arm, No Retreat, Steel Beam, Meteor Beam, or Obstruct, which should make for a richer discussion.

43% Non-Toxic (Spook): Non-Toxic Poison has always been in a weird place, as it used to be outclassed by both Burn and Toxic Poison; however, with Gen 7 halving Burn damage and Gen 8 removing Toxic as an universal TM, I think this is probably the best time we ever had to try to explore regular poison. Something I would remove is the mention of Guts or Poison Heal, as I think they don't really work very well with the rest of the concept (at least outside of very specific Trick shenanigans), and this is already robust enough that it doesn't need to add extra tangents like that.

Anti Stereo-type (Gleeboop): I think this idea has good potential, as there are definitely a lot of interesting combinations to explore, so I hope you can flesh it out more soon.

Knock It Off! (FierceDeity1): Another concept I find very promising if you could expand on it more. Knock Off has been one of the most important moves in the meta ever since its Gen 6 buff, and Gen 8 has made it more prevalent than ever, as there are no Mega Stones or Z-Crystals to sponge it, and Heavy-Duty Boots means that Pokemon depend more on their item than ever. I think that some questions you could include could be "How does Knock Off influence the game?", "What specific aspects of Knock Off could be exploited and how?", "Is it necessary to use a mechanic that specifically disuades the use of Knock Off or can this concept simply rely on not needing an item and having a good matchup against most Knock Off users?".

Abilities Some Consider to be Unnatural (MrDollSteak): I like this in theory, but frankly, I fear that certain options could eclipse the rest of the more niche possibilities with ease, as those would be much harder to implement, so I'm not really sure how this would work out in practice. I think that perhaps excluding abilities would be for the best here, as I think Neutralizing Gas (and to a lesser extent Mold Breaker) would dominate the Ability Discussion to a very unhealthy degree.

Onslaught (Quanyails): Exploring how similar Pokemon can stack with each other is very interesting, and the way this is written makes it clear there are many different paths to take. However, I'm afraid that this concept it's at its core a variation of a "partner" concept, something that has proven to be very challenging to build on past processes. I think that this is still a great concept and it would be interesting for CAP to finally succeed at building something like this, but right now, I'm afraid this is not a good time to try it, as the metagame is in a very chaotic state at the moment. Right now we're currently nerfing Astrolotl, Magearna might get banned this week, and Equilibra, Urshifu, Cinderace, and Clefable might be affected before the end of this process. I think this current climate is very hostile to this kind of concept, which would benefit a lot from a more stable metagame, so that we can really understand exactly what partners are we working with.

Hit, Run, Sack, and Repeat (Zephyr2007): The idea of playing by sacrificing your teammates is a very interesting one, but I'm not sure we have many ways to implement this in practice, as outside of V-Create, the only others moves that could create a similar dilemma could be with moves like Draco Meteor. If you could think of other ways to implement this concept, please let me know. Apart from that implementation problem, this concept seems extremely volatile, as it could be very easy to create something that requires very specific counters to prevent it from just autowinning games (think Cawmodore), which is something I'm not a fan of at all.

Catch All (Yay61): I think that the idea of something that can check a lot of Pokemon, but only one Pokemon per game is pretty promising, but I'm not completely sold, as I'm not sure this concept has enough "meat" for CAP 28. I think adding more questions about what kind of Pokemon should we aim to check and what kind of roles this CAP should fulfill outside of being a blanket check would help to add a lot more substance to this concept.

Wild Card (Riguor): Another concept that I think suffers from being a little too generic, as I think that just focusing on giving CAP 28 a lot of options is not going to have a particularly original final product, as many of our top tier threats like Tomohawk and Astrolotl are already built around a massive movepool.

Cheapskate (Estronic): I like this concept a lot, as I think that trying to maximize the potential of a small limited movepool could make for a very engaging project. Something I'll critique is that using Magearna as an example seems very counter-intuitive, as you yourself acknowledge that Magearna has a massive movepool to fill al these roles, and I don't think is realistic to expect CAP 28 to get nowhere near Magearna's level of unpredictability if we truly limit our number of moves. I think that both Landorus-T and Tornadus-T could be much better examples of previous Pokemon that accomplished this concept.

A Stable Clefable (Birkal): I suppose that CAP 28 wouldn't be a real CAP if we didn't have the obligatory controversial Birkal concept, and this certainly doesn't disappoint. Clefable has always been a very unique and powerful threat, fulfilling all sorts of roles, from cleric to wallbreaker, Clefable was really capable of doing pretty much whatever your team needed, so I think we would have a lot of room to explore with this concept. Of course, I also think this will inevitably be a very controversial move, as Clefable was banned for a reason, so if we truly wanted to imitate it, we would need a very high power level to even come close to being similar to Clefable. There's also the fact that Clefable's most significant set this Generation, Wish+Teleport was widely despised for preventing progress and elongating games to an unhealthy degree, which means that CAP 28 would either have to implement this very divisive set, or it would have to leave aside one of Clefable's most important characteristics.

Speed Control 101 (Wolf134): Speed Control is a very interesting topic, and I think there's a lot of very interesting ways in which this could go. I recommend you to read this old concept by Pip, which I think could help you to flesh out your submission a bit more.

Substitute Teacher (reachzero): Another amazing submission. Substitute has always been a fascinating move, and I'm frankly a bit surprised that no CAP has really tried to explore it in one way or another before. The presentation of this concept also makes a very good case of why a concept like this could be particularly attractive in our current metagame. I think a few questions that might be worth adding would be what are the potential risks and rewards when using Substitute and what counterplay might the opponent have against this tactic.

Hidden Potential (chuckeroo777): Exchanging your item for a powerful coverage moves is a very interesting trade-off that seems interesting to explore, but I'm not really sure this is an idea that can feed a whole project. I think that adding a few more questions could add a lot to the discussion and prevent this concept from feeling as linear as it does now.

CAP Concept Makeover (Orig Stall Guy): The idea of reusing an old concept has been around for a long time, as many of CAP's old concept no longer work (like Voodoom and Malaconda) or never worked in the first place (like Aurumoth or Plasmanta), and there is certainly a lot of things we could learn from trying to redo one of these in the present. However, a major criticism that this concept has had in the past is that it leaves what concept will ultimately be chosen completely up in the air, so Assessment would need to act as a second concept submission too. As other people have also suggested about similar concepts in the past, I think it would be a lot better for you to focus on redoing just one specific past concept and try to update it, as this would give us a much clearer direction, and you could also use the opportunity to polish the old concept so that it's easier to work with in the present.

The Right Type For Me! (aaronarium): Messing with typings is an interesting topic, most of the time, strategies like Soak or Trick-Or-Treat have been relegated to mere gimmicks, but I definitely agree they have a lot of potential alongside the right user. That said, I would consider outright dropping the part of this concept about altering your own type, as Protean, Libero, and Color Change are banned from ability discussion for invalidating our typing, and other options like Reflect Type are unreliable at best.

Welp, that should be it for now. I'm really happy to see so many great submissions and look forward to seeing more in the next days. In case you are thinking about maybe submitting a concept but still haven't decided, I strongly encourage you to submit it, as it's always for the best to share your ideas with others and I will gladly provide feedback for any submission posted.

 

[Zephyri]

Hit, Run, Sack, and Repeat (Zephyr2007): The idea of playing by sacrificing your teammates is a very interesting one, but I'm not sure we have many ways to implement this in practice, as outside of V-Create, the only others moves that could create a similar dilemma could be with moves like Draco Meteor. If you could think of other ways to implement this concept, please let me know. Apart from that implementation problem, this concept seems extremely volatile, as it could be very easy to create something that requires very specific counters to prevent it from just autowinning games (think Cawmodore), which is something I'm not a fan of at all.

Thanks for the feedback Mx! In regards to the implementation, I was thinking that something along the lines of Band First Impression... or something that just steadily loses momentum as it stays in might be what i was going for (i don't think that was too clear in my concept sub, so i'll probably rework that a bit). To your comment about volatility, although I do agree that it might result in such a mon being created, I feel that the fact that similar mons like Scarf Victini, Banded Golisopod, and Sun-Team Fire Blast Chandelure aren't (or weren't) really broken or centralizing in their own metas proves that it is possible to avoid such a situation

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

WIP Concept: Hook, Line & Sinker

Description: A Pokemon that looks to have a specific primary role on the team, but is actually designed to lure in a specific variety of mons on the opposing side and cause a surprising amount of damage to them, whether that be through a direct method, or with the aid of an ally that it either switched in for or plans to switch into.
Justification: This falls into the Archtype category of concepts, due to the set role this Pokemon would hypothetically undertake. Sometimes you just want a really annoying mon gone so that the rest of your team doesn't have to deal with it any more and you don't get stalled out. Or there's a specific mon in the back that you're afraid will sweep or clean up your whole team in a moment's notice. Enter CAP28. I shouldn't have to explain what a lure does, but we all know how the element of surprise can turn the tide of the battle if implemented successfully. However, there are a lot of challenges that a designated lure faces in order to remain viable. With Hidden Power having been outright removed from the Sword & Shield metagame, for example, it loses one of the most customize-able tools it could have, and has to rely on a movepool that can very easily be researched beforehand. Experienced players can also scout out specific moves to minimize the risk of being caught off-guard, which defeats the purpose of a lure as a whole. This concept attempts to answer the question of whether a designated lure can still function in the Sword & Shield metagame despite its shortcomings, through using a primary role that it can competently accomplish as a guise to maximize its chances of success.
Questions to be Answered:
How big of a "net" should we equip CAP28 with so it can do its job regardless of what it faces? Should it target a specific type like... say, Steel-type?
How can we manipulate CAP28's sets so that its primary role remains unassuming, and no-one catches onto what exactly it's trying to lure in?
What are CAP28's targets likely to switch into, or otherwise how are they likely to enter the fray?
What is the typical CAP player expected to know upon first glance within Team Preview? Furthermore, how can CAP28's owner use that to his or her advantage?
Which of the many primary roles we can give each CAP would net the best results as far as luring in a solid range of targets goes?
When is the best time for CAP28 to spring its trap on the mon that it had lured in? Should it wait until its primary role has been accomplished and can't be undone?
Explanation: Of course, you might be wondering how we can give Pokemon a specific role on the team and try to use it to lure in a key defensive or offensive threat at the same time, correct? Well here are a couple of examples that'll hopefully shed some light on how it can be done.

As one such example, let's say we have a Bug/Ground CAP28, which manages to put rocks up just as Corviknight switches in. Surely you'd think CAP28 would have no choice but to bail from that fight and leave Corviknight free to Defog the rocks away free of relative charge. Well, we'll see how it likes a Zap Cannon from said CAP28 to the face instead. This is of course assuming CAP28 has No Guard, cause otherwise you'd be insane to even consider the notion, but it certainly shows how a Corviknight can easily be lured in and crippled. A second possible scenario can be seen below.

Here, we have a Rock/Ghost CAP28 that we've dedicated as our Defogger, and we also have a Volcarona in the back whose Heavy-Duty Boots have been Knocked Off. However, we have a dilemma. CAP28 has to Defog so that Volcarona doesn't get almost murdered by rocks, but it just so happens to be staring down a Bisharp. We prepare to sack CAP28, which can at least get the faster Defog off, but Bisharp winds up Sucker Punching, expecting CAP28 to have gone for some chip damage instead. This allows us to deal with the +2 Attack we "accidentally" gave the opposing Bisharp with an equally fast Haze, allowing us to survive its next attack regardless of what it goes for. Bisharp now has to think CAP28 is not offensive, and forgoes any more Sucker Punches, only to be swiftly OHKO'd by CAP28's Body Press.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

• Name - Dotty the Chip-monk
• Description - A pokemon that sets, utilizes and encourages the use of Damage over Time effects, gradually lessening the effectiveness of opponents and making them easier to KO.
• Justification- This is a combination of Actualization and Target. There are plenty of ways in which damage over time is used to "subsidise" a pokemon's effectiveness, but no pokemon which truly makes use of the multiple damage over time effects that exist, instead with that damage proving second fiddle to the general utility those moves and abilities can provide elsewhere. The game is also one which incentivizes a rock-paper-scissors approach, and therefore, the sooner an opponent can be removed, the better - damage over time does have STAB, nor does it have the ability to target weaknesses - this concept can explore what use there is to having that damage built up over time, forcing opponents to have a lower hit points at a later time in the battle.
• Questions To Be Answered;
  • There are lots of options dealing and encouraging Damage Over Time effects - which ones can be focussed on, and which can be ignored?
  • What are the common traits of the regularly used Damage Over Time effects, and what synergies can be used to make them a focal point?
  • What do we do while this Damage Over Time is occuring - what uses are there for this pokemon's turns, even if that involves switching to another pokemon?
  • Does a Damage Over Time effect to be useful need to occur on a pokemon with another role in a team? If so, how best to ensure that the secondary role does not overshadow the Damage Over Time effect?
  • Equilibra has proved that delayed damage can be useful - can its success be replicated with Damage Over Time?

  • Dotty the Chip-Monk (CharSiuEmboar): Damage over time is a very broad concept, and I'm not even totally sure of what are you talking about in this concept. I think you should really make clear what your referring to, as "Damage over time" could be interpreted as turn-based damage like Poison, Burns, Leech Seed, and Sandstorm, hazard damage like Stealth Rock and Spikes, or maybe even both.

  • Many thanks for the review MX; I specifically left the intended concept of Damage Over Time as non-specific so as not to possibly influence discussion, or discourage it. Damage Over Time moves I conceptualize primarily as a way of causing damage over multiple turns outside of the action economy - status effects, turn based moves, etc all fitting this. Stealth Rock/Spikes/Delayed Damage/Rocky Helmet and similar mechanics arguably fit within the letter, but not within the spirit of this concept, IMHO; I'm not averse to them being present on CAP28, I'd like to possibly steer away the concept from *just* "let's make a stealth rocker" etc
  • The most basic example is using Toxic - Toxic puts opponents on a timer; what do we do while that timer is active. Adding additional "timers" from other DoT effects obviously speed that up - can it be done effectively? These additional timers often have additional things which can trigger off it - certain abilities, items, or conditional moves etc.
• Explanation-
  I just think they're neat

  

 

[Empress]

WIP

Name: Stick it to 'Em!

Description: A Pokemon that is defined by its use of the move Sticky Web.

Justification: This concept is primarily an Actualization concept, though it also has hints of Archetype and even Target in it. In terms of Actualization, we will see how Sticky Web can be utilized best. In the rare instances where I do see it, it's on hyper offense, where the user fails to do anything at all outside of setting up the entry hazard. Unless we try, we will never discover how (or if) it can be useful in ways besides that. In terms of Archetype, this niche does not exist at all in the standard metagame; this also leads into its Target characteristics, as hyper offense has picked up in use after the DLC drops. Due to the fast nature of most HO teams, the constant threat of Speed drops means that Sticky Web could be just as, if not more, viable AGAINST hyper offense, as opposed to being viable ON it.

Questions to be answered:
-

Explanation: There are countless moves that are incredibly useful on paper but do not see much use in the standard OU and CAP metagames for one reason or another. Sticky Web has been around since Gen 6, and we have never taken a good look at the move. In the current generation, we have not exactly had much exposure to it, either, as none of the move's users are viable (sorry, Snaelstrom).

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

CAP Concept Makeover (Orig Stall Guy): The idea of reusing an old concept has been around for a long time, as many of CAP's old concept no longer work (like Voodoom and Malaconda) or never worked in the first place (like Aurumoth or Plasmanta), and there is certainly a lot of things we could learn from trying to redo one of these in the present. However, a major criticism that this concept has had in the past is that it leaves what concept will ultimately be chosen completely up in the air, so Assessment would need to act as a second concept submission too. As other people have also suggested about similar concepts in the past, I think it would be a lot better for you to focus on redoing just one specific past concept and try to update it, as this would give us a much clearer direction, and you could also use the opportunity to polish the old concept so that it's easier to work with in the present.

Thank you so much for your opinion Mx! I need to think about which concept would be best to remake.

 

[Astra]

Cheapskate (Estronic): I like this concept a lot, as I think that trying to maximize the potential of a small limited movepool could make for a very engaging project. Something I'll critique is that using Magearna as an example seems very counter-intuitive, as you yourself acknowledge that Magearna has a massive movepool to fill al these roles, and I don't think is realistic to expect CAP 28 to get nowhere near Magearna's level of unpredictability if we truly limit our number of moves. I think that both Landorus-T and Tornadus-T could be much better examples of previous Pokemon that accomplished this concept.

I appreciate the feedback a lot, thank you! I've changed my explanation so that I use Landorus-T as a more accurate example of how my concept could possible work on CAP 28.

 

[Gleeboop]

Thank you so much for your opinion Mx! I need to think about which concept would be best to remake.

The ideas that failed are Aurumoth (risky buissness) and Plasmanta (not the exact name, but it was supposed to punish your team for killing it) and the CAPs that succumbed to power creep are Malaconda (type equalizer, which is to help increase the use of underused types), Voodoom (perfect partner), Normal Crucibelle (typing underdog), Pyroak (concepts didn't exist back then). Crucibelle was nerfed this gen due to the lack of megas, Kitsunoh was nerfed in gen 5 due to team preview and not needing a scout anymore, Argh's role as a decentralyzer...yeah. There are also quite a few CAPs that are pretty niche, such as Cyclohm (which is currently a cawm counter), Naviathan (guts dragon dance stuff), and Fidgit (hazards, tailwind, and TR).

If this list seems wrong, please correct me. Thank you to Mx for Plasmanta.

 

[Mx]

Another day, another round of TL-flavored feedback:

Hook, Line & Sinker (Admiral_Stalfos19): A dedicated lure concept sounds attractive in theory, but I don't think it's enough to feed a whole process. What makes a good lure work is that your opponent your opponent doesn't expect it, because the primary role of that Pokemon is something else. If we want to make this concept work, we would need to fill some other primary role before we can start talking about potential lure sets, and currently this concept doesn't provide any guidance for what this primary role could be, or even that it exist in the first place. I think that perhaps you could fix those issues to an extent by adding a question about what this primary role could be and adding a few examples in the explanation section of how this could play out should.

Dotty the Chip-Monk (CharSiuEmboar): Damage over time is a very broad concept, and I'm not even totally sure of what are you talking about in this concept. I think you should really make clear what your referring to, as "Damage over time" could be interpreted as turn-based damage like Poison, Burns, Leech Seed, and Sandstorm, hazard damage like Stealth Rock and Spikes, or maybe even both.

Stick it to 'Em (Empress): While I think Sticky Webs is a very interesting move that could provide enough engaging discussion for the entirety of CAP 28, I fear that it is also a very volatile and arguably uncompetitive idea, as teammates could get out of hand if the opponent has a bad matchup. I suppose that the rise of Heavy-Duty Boots means that it should be easier to have counterplay against this playstyle, but even then I feel like it remains as a mostly matchup based strategy. At the very least, I would like you to address these concerns in your questions sections.

Teaching a Old Dog New Tricks (SunMYSER): Very minor nitpick , but I noticed that this name is misspelled, as it should be "Teaching an Old Dog New Tricks".

Regicide (JAGFL): While I like this concept much better than your previous one, I'm a bit alarmed by the power level it implies. Most high ranked Pokemon are there for a reason and trying to counter just a couple of them would take a lot of effort on our part. The last time we explicitly tried a concept like this (Arghonaut), the end result ended up centralizing the whole meta around it (and one could argue that Equilibra was similar), so I think you should try to incorporate a question about how to avoid CAP 28 becoming an overcentralizing threat.

Also a note for all submitters that alter their concept in a fundamental way like JAGFL did: Please make a quick post here or contact me through Discord or Smogon PMs, as I won't be able to give you more feedback if I don't know that you changed your concept.