-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
CAP 29 - Part 9 - Stat Spread Poll 1
- Thread starter Mx
- Start date
- Status
MrDollSteak
dex18
earl
Scizivire
quziel
Brambane
kjnjkmjk1
Korski
Do people usually post vote justifications?playtesting and replays was a huge help in determining this vote; if you voted without checking out the playtest thread I highly recommend taking a look!
MrDollSteak has the spread I enjoyed the most. It is a very balanced spread overall with just enough SpA that I don't feel sour when I am not investing much into it. I like the 100 base SpD; it is nice to get a larger initial boost at +1 against things like Heatran and Tomohawk. I also like the spread out speeding Landorus-t and non-Scarf Jumbao, but maintaining a lower Speed than Garchomp. I think when you do have a nicer SpD than other spreads having Garchomp outspeed you is a good way to make up for making stuff like Heatran a weaker check. It is also a pretty flexible spread with EVs; I was pretty pleased with a lot of the EV spreads I used. It felt strong, but fair with clear weaknesses that compliment its strengths.
dex18 has an extremely interesting spread. Its high Speed is a huge asset not only for outspeeding a swathe of Pokemon between 105 and 120, but also because if you don't need to invest much in Speed to hit your benchmark (krilowatt for example) you can invest in bulk which allows it to rival the bulk of some slower spreads. It has great flexibility in that regard, which I think gives us more room to hone in on a viable set for CAP29. It has very good power behind it and the Defense really helps with setting up and lessening the sting of U-turn and Flip Turn, which CAP29 is really vulnerable to. I tried out 3 sets with this spread and they all put in some work; this is definitely a strong spread.
earl's high Special Attack and the second highest overall special tankiness on the slate are both great boons. No other spread combines decent Speed, high Special Attack, and solid Special Defense. Being able to invest in either defense while still having a meaty special attack and passable bulk overall without any boosts is quite an asset, even if it is one of the slower spreads. Being able to creep Lando-t is a nice threat in team preview even if you don't utilize it with your EVs, but keeping the speed otherwise on the "slower" end I think is a good balance. I would say my top 3 are all very very close, and how much fun I had testing and theorycrafting EVs and teams with each spread is how I broke the tie.
Scizivire has an awesome spread because it has fantastic power and good physical bulk. I have however found that the lower Speed made hitting my benchmarks harder and pulled from my ability of offset the low SpD by investing in bulk. It is less a problem with this spread since you have a good SpA without investment, hence why I ranked it fourth. I really enjoy the power behind this spread, although I may be biased towards the 135 SpA number. Quziel has a solid spread that is also pretty flexible with EVs. For me though during testing it felt like it was caught in the middle between dex and MDS. Dex's spread can hit the same Speed benchmark, has the same SpA, but gains way more physical bulk from leftover EVs at the cost of comparably little SpDef. When you aren't capitalizing on outapeeding Kril and Chomp, I found the overall above average bulk of MDS' spread a little more interesting in both building and practice despite the lower SpA. The higher HP is appreciated for some movesets that can benefit 404 HP or Leftovers numbers. This is a solid spread and I think really just came down to my own personal preference and playstyle.
My own spread feels a bit too much like a match up fish. It is a really strong spread that is hard to break once you get a calm mind unless you have haze, phasing, taunt or toxic. Obviously those aren't that hard to fit on a team, but the additional high SpA behind my spread allows it too much freedom to just Recover and attack in the early-midgame with not much punishment. Its high bulk also makes it less susceptible to U-turn since it can just tank things like Hurricane so well. Overall I worry my spread would either lead to us being restrictive in movepools or creating something that does not feel enjoyable to play against or even build around.
Kjnjkmjk1 and Korski are both lowest on my list for the same reason: I don't think the SpA is quite enough, and that weakness overshadows the spreads' strengths. I think 115 is about as low as SpA could get with me still feeling good about the damage. These spreads would probably have benefitted more if I could test and account for other moves in my tests and votes.
Overall I enjoyed testing the spreads and think any of them could work to make a good CAP29 with the right movepool. I am very excited with the direction CAP29 is going and enjoyed testing out spreads with everyone!!
dex18
earl
Scizivire
quziel
Brambane
kjnjkmjk1
Korski
Do people usually post vote justifications?playtesting and replays was a huge help in determining this vote; if you voted without checking out the playtest thread I highly recommend taking a look!
MrDollSteak has the spread I enjoyed the most. It is a very balanced spread overall with just enough SpA that I don't feel sour when I am not investing much into it. I like the 100 base SpD; it is nice to get a larger initial boost at +1 against things like Heatran and Tomohawk. I also like the spread out speeding Landorus-t and non-Scarf Jumbao, but maintaining a lower Speed than Garchomp. I think when you do have a nicer SpD than other spreads having Garchomp outspeed you is a good way to make up for making stuff like Heatran a weaker check. It is also a pretty flexible spread with EVs; I was pretty pleased with a lot of the EV spreads I used. It felt strong, but fair with clear weaknesses that compliment its strengths.
dex18 has an extremely interesting spread. Its high Speed is a huge asset not only for outspeeding a swathe of Pokemon between 105 and 120, but also because if you don't need to invest much in Speed to hit your benchmark (krilowatt for example) you can invest in bulk which allows it to rival the bulk of some slower spreads. It has great flexibility in that regard, which I think gives us more room to hone in on a viable set for CAP29. It has very good power behind it and the Defense really helps with setting up and lessening the sting of U-turn and Flip Turn, which CAP29 is really vulnerable to. I tried out 3 sets with this spread and they all put in some work; this is definitely a strong spread.
earl's high Special Attack and the second highest overall special tankiness on the slate are both great boons. No other spread combines decent Speed, high Special Attack, and solid Special Defense. Being able to invest in either defense while still having a meaty special attack and passable bulk overall without any boosts is quite an asset, even if it is one of the slower spreads. Being able to creep Lando-t is a nice threat in team preview even if you don't utilize it with your EVs, but keeping the speed otherwise on the "slower" end I think is a good balance. I would say my top 3 are all very very close, and how much fun I had testing and theorycrafting EVs and teams with each spread is how I broke the tie.
Scizivire has an awesome spread because it has fantastic power and good physical bulk. I have however found that the lower Speed made hitting my benchmarks harder and pulled from my ability of offset the low SpD by investing in bulk. It is less a problem with this spread since you have a good SpA without investment, hence why I ranked it fourth. I really enjoy the power behind this spread, although I may be biased towards the 135 SpA number. Quziel has a solid spread that is also pretty flexible with EVs. For me though during testing it felt like it was caught in the middle between dex and MDS. Dex's spread can hit the same Speed benchmark, has the same SpA, but gains way more physical bulk from leftover EVs at the cost of comparably little SpDef. When you aren't capitalizing on outapeeding Kril and Chomp, I found the overall above average bulk of MDS' spread a little more interesting in both building and practice despite the lower SpA. The higher HP is appreciated for some movesets that can benefit 404 HP or Leftovers numbers. This is a solid spread and I think really just came down to my own personal preference and playstyle.
My own spread feels a bit too much like a match up fish. It is a really strong spread that is hard to break once you get a calm mind unless you have haze, phasing, taunt or toxic. Obviously those aren't that hard to fit on a team, but the additional high SpA behind my spread allows it too much freedom to just Recover and attack in the early-midgame with not much punishment. Its high bulk also makes it less susceptible to U-turn since it can just tank things like Hurricane so well. Overall I worry my spread would either lead to us being restrictive in movepools or creating something that does not feel enjoyable to play against or even build around.
Kjnjkmjk1 and Korski are both lowest on my list for the same reason: I don't think the SpA is quite enough, and that weakness overshadows the spreads' strengths. I think 115 is about as low as SpA could get with me still feeling good about the damage. These spreads would probably have benefitted more if I could test and account for other moves in my tests and votes.
Overall I enjoyed testing the spreads and think any of them could work to make a good CAP29 with the right movepool. I am very excited with the direction CAP29 is going and enjoyed testing out spreads with everyone!!
Last edited:
MrDollSteak
earl
quziel
kjnjkmjk1
dex18
Scizivire
Brambane
Korski
Reasoning:
MDS's spread generally feels like the best compromise between the bulk to just tank through hits, without being overbearing, enough power to not be anemic when in its offensive mode, and the speed to outrun base 90s, while not outrunning chomper. Low HP is also a bonus because it makes 252 hp / 252 Spe spreads very efficient, while preventing us from running subCM sets, which I view to be a bit anti concept.
Earl's again is a very solid compromise between power and bulk, but the lower speed does cause me a bit of worry, I'd really like to be over 95s.
I am voting for myself here.
Kj's worries me a bit with the sheer physical bulk, but I still like the power and speed mix.
Dex's speed worries me a tad, and test games with Ice Beam have scared me, hence it being a bit low, but its definitely a spread that could result in a solid product.
Sciz's felt like even boosted it just fell over to way too many special hits, that said the power is really nice. Speed tier below 90 is a bit painful though.
Brambane's legit worries me in terms of "you have toxic or lose" and I don't necessarily wanna inject that into the meta.
Korski's speed is over 110, which I don't like, and isn't particularly offensively threatening, which I don't like.
Overall this is a very solid spread and everything here could result in a good cap, don't take being low in my rankings as being a bad spread, everything here felt good in testing, and its a shame I have to rank them.
earl
quziel
kjnjkmjk1
dex18
Scizivire
Brambane
Korski
Reasoning:
MDS's spread generally feels like the best compromise between the bulk to just tank through hits, without being overbearing, enough power to not be anemic when in its offensive mode, and the speed to outrun base 90s, while not outrunning chomper. Low HP is also a bonus because it makes 252 hp / 252 Spe spreads very efficient, while preventing us from running subCM sets, which I view to be a bit anti concept.
Earl's again is a very solid compromise between power and bulk, but the lower speed does cause me a bit of worry, I'd really like to be over 95s.
I am voting for myself here.
Kj's worries me a bit with the sheer physical bulk, but I still like the power and speed mix.
Dex's speed worries me a tad, and test games with Ice Beam have scared me, hence it being a bit low, but its definitely a spread that could result in a solid product.
Sciz's felt like even boosted it just fell over to way too many special hits, that said the power is really nice. Speed tier below 90 is a bit painful though.
Brambane's legit worries me in terms of "you have toxic or lose" and I don't necessarily wanna inject that into the meta.
Korski's speed is over 110, which I don't like, and isn't particularly offensively threatening, which I don't like.
Overall this is a very solid spread and everything here could result in a good cap, don't take being low in my rankings as being a bad spread, everything here felt good in testing, and its a shame I have to rank them.
Last edited:
quziel
MrDollSteak
earl
MrDollSteak
earl
Korski
quziel
earl
MrDollSteak
Scizivire
dex18
kjnjkmjk1
Brambane
quziel
earl
MrDollSteak
Scizivire
dex18
kjnjkmjk1
Brambane
MrDollSteak
dex18
earl
Korski
Brambane
Scizivire
quziel
kjnjkmjk1
dex18
earl
Korski
Brambane
Scizivire
quziel
kjnjkmjk1
quziel
kjnjkmjk1
Scizivire
MrDollSteak
dex18
Brambane
earl
Korski
kjnjkmjk1
Scizivire
MrDollSteak
dex18
Brambane
earl
Korski
quziel
dex18
Korski
earl
Scizivire
kjnjkmjk1
MrDollSteak
Brambane
dex18
Korski
earl
Scizivire
kjnjkmjk1
MrDollSteak
Brambane
Last edited:
MrDollSteak
quziel
Korski
kjnjkmjk1
earl
Scizivire
dex18
Brambane
quziel
Korski
kjnjkmjk1
earl
Scizivire
dex18
Brambane
Scizivire
Korski
Korski
dex18
quziel
Korski
quziel
Korski
From most preferred to least preferred:
quziel
dex18
earl
MrDollSteak
kjnjkmjk1
Korski
Brambane
Scizivire
Note: I think we should definitely be prioritizing special sweeping + speed, and physical bulk. While I think the potential of viable Coil sets is an important element to CAP29’s potential, it should not be our main focus in stat management. The stat spreads that prioritize a workable Speed and above average Sp. Attack alongside bulk (I think the ability to switch in on banded Rilla’s Wood Hammer is a good point of reference here) are in my opinion the most viable and workable spreads that enhance CAP29’s potential.
quziel
dex18
earl
MrDollSteak
kjnjkmjk1
Korski
Brambane
Scizivire
Note: I think we should definitely be prioritizing special sweeping + speed, and physical bulk. While I think the potential of viable Coil sets is an important element to CAP29’s potential, it should not be our main focus in stat management. The stat spreads that prioritize a workable Speed and above average Sp. Attack alongside bulk (I think the ability to switch in on banded Rilla’s Wood Hammer is a good point of reference here) are in my opinion the most viable and workable spreads that enhance CAP29’s potential.
Brambane
Scizivire
To be honest, I'm getting the feeling that 29 is starting to regress towards the very problem it was made to fix, with its hyper-optimized defensive typing and a lot of stat spreads that encourage playing around Color Change using high Speed and attacking stats to wallbreak or clean up without taking a hit.
In my opinion, dropping 29's Speed to the point where it generally gets outsped doesn't only refocus the creation process on Color Change, it also allows for the leeway that 29 needs in its other stats to be able to viably take neutral or even weak SE hits on top of threatening the mons it's supposed to threaten re: movepool and attacking stats.
I can't help but feel leery of the other spreads, which in my opinion put too little faith in Color Change as an ability and instead overcompensate with optimized Ubers-tier BSTs, deepening the CAP tendency towards making mons strong for the sake of strength and ending up drowning good concepts in Big Numbers.
Scizivire
To be honest, I'm getting the feeling that 29 is starting to regress towards the very problem it was made to fix, with its hyper-optimized defensive typing and a lot of stat spreads that encourage playing around Color Change using high Speed and attacking stats to wallbreak or clean up without taking a hit.
In my opinion, dropping 29's Speed to the point where it generally gets outsped doesn't only refocus the creation process on Color Change, it also allows for the leeway that 29 needs in its other stats to be able to viably take neutral or even weak SE hits on top of threatening the mons it's supposed to threaten re: movepool and attacking stats.
I can't help but feel leery of the other spreads, which in my opinion put too little faith in Color Change as an ability and instead overcompensate with optimized Ubers-tier BSTs, deepening the CAP tendency towards making mons strong for the sake of strength and ending up drowning good concepts in Big Numbers.
Korski
kjnjkmjk1
quziel
kjnjkmjk1
quziel
quziel
kjnjkmjk1
MrDollSteak
earl
Scizivire
dex18
Korski
Brambane
kjnjkmjk1
MrDollSteak
earl
Scizivire
dex18
Korski
Brambane
- Status