Fire/Poison
Can't wait for Ice/Rock to win so we can have a boring art thread.
Can't wait for Ice/Rock to win so we can have a boring art thread.
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CAP 14 CAP 3 - Part 2 - Typing Poll 3
- Thread starter Deck Knight
- Start date
- Status
Ice/Rock
we wanted something that has a fatal flaw in either a defensive dual typing or offensive dual typing ice/rock is the epitome of poor defensive typing. Sad to see we couldn't get the great defensive but poor offensive typing that is steel and great offensive but poor defensive typing that is ice but I definitely want to see where this can go.
we wanted something that has a fatal flaw in either a defensive dual typing or offensive dual typing ice/rock is the epitome of poor defensive typing. Sad to see we couldn't get the great defensive but poor offensive typing that is steel and great offensive but poor defensive typing that is ice but I definitely want to see where this can go.
Fire/Poison
After initially voting for Ice/Rock, I think the logic put forth by a lot of the posts here is sound, therefore I have changed my vote.
It occurs to me now that in order to really explore both offensive and defensive possibilities for CAP 3, that this is the typing to go with. Ice/Rock just screams for gimmicks to be implemented to make up for its shortcomings, while Fire/Poison has just ENOUGH "good" backing it up to be a good candidate for the goals of this CAP.
After initially voting for Ice/Rock, I think the logic put forth by a lot of the posts here is sound, therefore I have changed my vote.
It occurs to me now that in order to really explore both offensive and defensive possibilities for CAP 3, that this is the typing to go with. Ice/Rock just screams for gimmicks to be implemented to make up for its shortcomings, while Fire/Poison has just ENOUGH "good" backing it up to be a good candidate for the goals of this CAP.
Fire/Poison
Fire/Poison
Ice/Rock couldn't function defensively, and has too good of STAB for an offensive Pokemon to be truly "bad" typing, not to mention it will take some seriously crazy stats, moves, and abilities to give it any niche over Mamoswine, Cloyster, or even Kyurem.
Fire/Poison leaves a lot more leeway, and while still a poor typing, has some unique niche that nothing else would have (absorbs T-Spikes, immune to burn and Toxic). There are several directions that we could take such a Pokemon as well, and I think it'll lead to a much more interesting CAP overall that encourages more creativity and discussion.
Ice/Rock couldn't function defensively, and has too good of STAB for an offensive Pokemon to be truly "bad" typing, not to mention it will take some seriously crazy stats, moves, and abilities to give it any niche over Mamoswine, Cloyster, or even Kyurem.
Fire/Poison leaves a lot more leeway, and while still a poor typing, has some unique niche that nothing else would have (absorbs T-Spikes, immune to burn and Toxic). There are several directions that we could take such a Pokemon as well, and I think it'll lead to a much more interesting CAP overall that encourages more creativity and discussion.
Fire/Poison
I have to admit, I just really want this typing; however, Ice/Rock is by far the worse option (in the design sense). I feel trying to overcompensate for a typing that feeble will likely lead to either an overpowered mess or a hopelessly shallow mess.
I have to admit, I just really want this typing; however, Ice/Rock is by far the worse option (in the design sense). I feel trying to overcompensate for a typing that feeble will likely lead to either an overpowered mess or a hopelessly shallow mess.
FIRE / POISON
Fire/Poison
Fire/Poison
Not arguing Ice/Rock is worse. I just think it's unsalvageable defensively to work as anything but a revenge killer without INSANE stats/ability.
Meanwhile, since every Ice/Steel vote is going to go to Ice/Rock this is likely a done deal anyway.
Not arguing Ice/Rock is worse. I just think it's unsalvageable defensively to work as anything but a revenge killer without INSANE stats/ability.
Meanwhile, since every Ice/Steel vote is going to go to Ice/Rock this is likely a done deal anyway.
Ice/Rock
Fire/Poison really isn't that bad of a typing. It has a Fighting resistance, resistance to all three types of priority, immunity to T-spikes, and good neutral coverage.
Ice/Rock is pretty generally shitty all around and will actually require some creativity to make it useful. We don't necessarily have to pigeonhole ourselves into the quick sweeper/revenge killer.
As capefeather has pointed out:
It just seems to me that Fire/Poison is taking the easy way out.
Fire/Poison really isn't that bad of a typing. It has a Fighting resistance, resistance to all three types of priority, immunity to T-spikes, and good neutral coverage.
Ice/Rock is pretty generally shitty all around and will actually require some creativity to make it useful. We don't necessarily have to pigeonhole ourselves into the quick sweeper/revenge killer.
As capefeather has pointed out:
I'm going to open Pandora's Box here and suggest:
Rock / Ice (or Ice / Rock... apparently there's no difference?)
Looking at that, most people would think it's the worst possible typing. And it probably is. I doubt I even have to explain why. Like any other type combination, it does have a few pluses that are worth mentioning. More than that, though, this kind of typing will probably cause the most interesting discussion, the most controversy, and the most use out of every future stage of this process.
Let's look at its positives and the likely role that Rock / Ice will take. Looking at its numerous weaknesses, mostly to very common attacking types in OU, it is probably doomed to be a hit-and-run attacker (not necessarily Choiced). It does have some advantages in this regard. Physical Rock-type STAB and special Ice-type STAB can be rather useful, and the typing can benefit from both sand and hail.
The weaknesses, also, can be put to use. I normally wouldn't even list them but even I need to keep track of them: Fighting, Grass, Ground, Rock, Steel, and Water. Keep in mind that Grass- and Ground-types are threatened by Ice STAB. The other weaknesses mean that Rock / Ice CAP would mainly lure in Tyranitar, Terrakion, Water-types, and the priority users Scizor and Conkeldurr. Depending on what we do with the future stages, we could use this to Rock / Ice CAP's advantage to give the aforementioned a hard time somehow. It's hard to elaborate without poll-jumping, but it's certainly possible, and perhaps a new niche will be created out of it.
The thing that really gets me about this typing is that it is so incredibly bad, and yet the tools available to us are still powerful enough that we can accentuate the few advantages that it does have. The process resulting from this would probably run counter to most of the CAP processes from the past; instead of being tasked with a balancing act throughout the process, this project would be "balanced" right from the start. What we usually see as flaws in the process can be turned around and used to our advantage. In fact, we'd most likely have to do so, at every stage, ironically reducing the risk of one aspect "replacing" the typing. To anyone who has ever wanted to see the very being of the CAP process turned upside down, just to see what would happen: THIS is your chance.
__________________
Rock / Ice (or Ice / Rock... apparently there's no difference?)
Looking at that, most people would think it's the worst possible typing. And it probably is. I doubt I even have to explain why. Like any other type combination, it does have a few pluses that are worth mentioning. More than that, though, this kind of typing will probably cause the most interesting discussion, the most controversy, and the most use out of every future stage of this process.
Let's look at its positives and the likely role that Rock / Ice will take. Looking at its numerous weaknesses, mostly to very common attacking types in OU, it is probably doomed to be a hit-and-run attacker (not necessarily Choiced). It does have some advantages in this regard. Physical Rock-type STAB and special Ice-type STAB can be rather useful, and the typing can benefit from both sand and hail.
The weaknesses, also, can be put to use. I normally wouldn't even list them but even I need to keep track of them: Fighting, Grass, Ground, Rock, Steel, and Water. Keep in mind that Grass- and Ground-types are threatened by Ice STAB. The other weaknesses mean that Rock / Ice CAP would mainly lure in Tyranitar, Terrakion, Water-types, and the priority users Scizor and Conkeldurr. Depending on what we do with the future stages, we could use this to Rock / Ice CAP's advantage to give the aforementioned a hard time somehow. It's hard to elaborate without poll-jumping, but it's certainly possible, and perhaps a new niche will be created out of it.
The thing that really gets me about this typing is that it is so incredibly bad, and yet the tools available to us are still powerful enough that we can accentuate the few advantages that it does have. The process resulting from this would probably run counter to most of the CAP processes from the past; instead of being tasked with a balancing act throughout the process, this project would be "balanced" right from the start. What we usually see as flaws in the process can be turned around and used to our advantage. In fact, we'd most likely have to do so, at every stage, ironically reducing the risk of one aspect "replacing" the typing. To anyone who has ever wanted to see the very being of the CAP process turned upside down, just to see what would happen: THIS is your chance.
__________________
It just seems to me that Fire/Poison is taking the easy way out.
Fire/Poison
Same reasons as last time - Fire/Poison is a bad typing while still managing to be a highly versatile typing that can fill many possible niches, whereas I can't see Ice/Rock being good at anything except a quick, frail revenge killing / sweeping role. While there is nothing really wrong with either of those roles, I would rather that we don't shoehorn the rest of the process into a relatively generic, inflexible archetype by way of our typing. This concept has so much more potential than that.
Same reasons as last time - Fire/Poison is a bad typing while still managing to be a highly versatile typing that can fill many possible niches, whereas I can't see Ice/Rock being good at anything except a quick, frail revenge killing / sweeping role. While there is nothing really wrong with either of those roles, I would rather that we don't shoehorn the rest of the process into a relatively generic, inflexible archetype by way of our typing. This concept has so much more potential than that.
Ice/Rock
Ice/Rock
Who knew being a little less active for a few days could result in so much being done?
Anyway, I prefer Ice/Rock because I'm not sure that you can argue that there's a worse defensive typing in the game. With six weaknesses, and three resistances (IIRC) it would be extremely tough to work with. It is because it would give us the most challenges that I think this is the most intriguing choice.
Who knew being a little less active for a few days could result in so much being done?
Anyway, I prefer Ice/Rock because I'm not sure that you can argue that there's a worse defensive typing in the game. With six weaknesses, and three resistances (IIRC) it would be extremely tough to work with. It is because it would give us the most challenges that I think this is the most intriguing choice.
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