CAP 31 - Part 1 - Concept Assessment

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I cant advocate for moves that change little to nothing to existing distributed moves aside from a power increase, with that being said I can make an exception for Psystrike and under a similar vein Secret Sword. I appreciate given secondary effect, it gives access to the user to pose a prominent offensive threat on both sides of defense, this is a cool dynamic I can vouch for.

Core Enforcer I’m a huge fan of, it grants so much utility from its effect alone having targets in abilities to nullify in Regenerator and potentially winning damage trades removing power boosting abilities among other abilities. There’s plenty of interactions to consider and explore, this ability is relatively unrestrictive for the process.

I don’t see Diamond Storm as anything more interesting as a stronger, more accurate rock move with a disconnected secondary effect. The effect is entirely one dimensional, it doesn’t strike me as having any unique interactions or utility. I can only imagine the end result to be mindless spamming and quite frankly there are other options more worthwhile for this concept.

Oblivion Wing while not having an entirely unique effect is still able to pave way for an excellent design. The flexible nature of the effect allows the user to be a powerful offensive threat with longevity throughout the battle while also being a good stab option on a more defensively minded direction which Yveltal hasn’t been able to properly utilize.
 
A lot of the prohibited moves are a lot of either straight upgrades to already existing moves or just not good. I think removing the moves like Luster Purge and Mist Ball and some other carbon copy moves like Shadow Force are not a good idea. For the weaker moves, a unique part of this concept is being able to utilize moves that usually only Legendaries use, but making the move a move that is not good and probably would not be used is not interesting at all. Moves that are basically exactly the same as other moves also makes the concept less interesting because at that point there is no difference to just giving Cap 31 the weaker version of the move but with higher stats. My favorite of the moves are Oblivion Wing, Core Enforcer, and Techno Blast. Personally prefer the other two over Techno Blast, but they are all good. Oblivion Wing is one of, if not the, best draining move in the game(unless you count Leech Seed), and it would be very interesting to give to Cap 31, but I do think that if we choose Oblivion Wing, because of its lower BP compared to other prohibited moves and even normal moves I think it would almost necessitate we be flying-type. Core Enforcer is very unique, neutralizing an ability is a very cool concept that could be really unique with a move, and while I like it I also think it could just lead to something similar to Miasmaw, although with typing and stats it could definitely be changed. Other moves like Thunderous Kick and Double Iron Bash are very cool, and I am not opposed to doing just a straight attacking move, but they could end up being a relatively boring process compared to other options.
 

Zetalz

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Thinking about it more and after discussing it with others I've soured on Core Enforcer. The amount of relevant interactions you can actually achieve with it are very low and rely on your opponent actively playing into it for a turn, the move not working on switches is so detrimental when things like Regen mons you'd love to hit and disable Regen on are actually more encouraged to just do as they do and regen pivot out. Not to mention many regen mons, again, very high value targets, are extremely slow to begin with or can just U-turn out. Dragon is also just not great real estate for coverage, nearly mandating Dragon during typing if you want the move to be worth clicking most of the time. Core is deceptively shallow and I'd really rather not talk about this one for the next 4 months.

Something I would like talking about for 4 months though is Photon Geyser. Spoo put it pretty well, Necrozma does tread on the design space here a bit but there's still definitely room for cool exploration. Specifically, a lot to play around with using Photon's stat shifting mechanic, the coolest aspect of the move and something Necrozma itself doesn't use to terribly great effect. There's a lot of cool ways you can make a cool physical/mixed user of it in ways Necro just can't (especially with abilities that interact with the moves properties.)

Also Oblivion Wing is cool and I should've mentioned it in my first post. Like Diamond Storm I think this has a fair amount of diverging ways you can use it beyond the obvious draintank approach. The sheer draining efficiency Owing has I think is enough to make it more interesting than your standard draining move fair.
 

quziel

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To sorta expand why I've personally soured upon Core Enforcer, I'd like to look at some mons that rely heavily on their abilities. Keep the following mechanics in mind; Core Enforcer only suppresses the target's ability if used last, Core Enforcer does not suppress the target's ability if they switch in, Core Enforcer only suppresses the target's ability if they take damage from it.

Clefable is straight up immune to Core Enforcer, using this against it will result in Clef still ignoring your stats / your toxic.

Arghonaut is an acceptable target, but remember, enforcer only suppresses if you move last, so if it circle throws you, it does not care about your stat boosts.

Toxapex, Slowbrothers are both incredibly slow mons, and sorta force us to be base 29 speed or lower to have a chance to remove their ability. Toxapex and the Kanto Slowbrothers also commonly carry Recover, which means that denying Recovery through Regenerator may not be incredibly impactful. Admittedly this excels against Astrolotl, but again, it may just swap out of a 100 BP Dragon move. Tornadus-Therian is honestly probably the best use case I can find for this move. Core Enforcer is legitimately quite good into it, and would prolly just force Torn to U-turn vs us more. If we are slow enough, Slowking-Galar is another good use case as it typically runs Assault Vest, and thus us denying Regen denies it overall recovery.

Venomicon-E admittedly does hate core enforcer if and only if we resist Flying. Venomicon-P also hates getting its ability suppressed, but this only impacts our matchup against it if we're a mixed attacker (aka core enforcer is special) or ig if we swap out after?

Tomohawk can no longer prankster haze us if we're specifically a fairly fast setup sweeper. That said this goes against its interaction with Regen mons, and if we're a slow setup sweeper it still hazes us.

Chromera thinks we're a swell guy cause it can keep its base typing. Yay. This is the Chromera buff we were all waiting for.

Hawlucha becomes slow letting us revenge kill it after it inevitably kills us. Dracozolt does too.

Any effect that triggers on switchin (Misty Surge, Grassy Surge, Intimidate) is unaffected by Core Enforcer.

List of positive use cases are Tornadus-Therian, Hawlucha, and Dracozolt, and if we are slow enough, Slowking-Galar. Not including Astrolotl because it is likely to either switch out or die to the move, making the secondary effect null. Basically the most interesting part of the move is honest that its a 100% accurate 100 BP dragon move with 16 PP, which honestly is fairly compelling lol.

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I also wanted to talk about how I find Thunder Cage to be very compelling. While yes, this is covered sorta by Pajantom and Heatran, it has several aspects that make it incredibly different from both in terms of how we can design the mon. Because of the very, very common immunity to Thunder Cage (Zeraora, every ground type ever), we have a ton more design space than we otherwise would. Pajantom was denied both Recovery and Taunt specifically because of how easy Spirit Shackle is to trap stuff with. Because of how common immunities to Thunder Cage are, we are not subject to nearly as many design restraints. Additionally, Thunder Cage, as a move, is valid on just about any archetype. Walls love trapping (see Block Pex and Tapu Fini), as it makes it a lot easier to control momentum, that said, so do Wallbreakers, Cleaners, and just about every other role. The partial trapping aspect, that is the chip damage, can also not be ignored for this move, as it shifts our relationship with our attack stats, as suddenly we have to do between 12.5% and 25% less damage to secure a OHKO/2HKO. It should also be noted that many OMs use this move as coverage, see QD Xerneas in BH, which speaks to its impact. Overall a very mechanically rich move, despite looking fairly simple.

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Diamond Storm is more interesting than you think. +2 Defense is relevant to just about every single role in the game. Mega Diancie loved this move last generation in a large part because of how hard it got to revenge kill if it got lucky. I am certain I am not the only person who realized I could no longer revenge kill it with my Landorus after it got to +2 Defense. I should not need to really address how useful the +2 Defense is on a wall chassis.
 
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Zephyri

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don't want to rehash other people's points but of the abilities discussed so far, I like Diamond Storm, Spectral Thief, Techno Blast, and Oblivion Wing, for the reasons other people mentioned. TCage im still on the fence about but reading quz's points on the Discord has pushed me in favor of it. with that out of the way, I wanted to talk about a move im surprised hasn't been brought up yet: Sacred Fire.

To put it simply, 100 power move with a 50% burn chance is really freaking interesting. There's a ton of routes you could go with this; Hex mixed attacker, defensive threat that draws in mons like Shifu-R and Lando-T, only to cripple them a la Heatran, and probably more that I can't think of at 1:30 AM in the morning. The compression of status spreading+damage (especially damage as significant as 100bp) in general is really cool; status spreading in itself is valuable utility, and being able to use that status spread as coverage against certain opposing Pokemon opens up vast design space and interesting learning outcomes w.r.t the role of status spread on a team, the value of PP and how to maximize the impact of low PP moves, and role compression in general. Sacred Fire also like doesn't necessitate STAB; fire coverage in general is extremely valued, and a Pokemon that used Sacred Fire for its utility and value as coverage rather than its breaking power doesn't need STAB on the move.

tl;dr: sacred fire has a ton of unique characteristics like status spread+high damage compression/low pp/ability to act as coverage rather than main STAB/huge design space, and i think those characteristics make it worth looking into.
 
After reading a bit more of people’s comments, I’d like to really narrow down my list, and explain ones I’ve soured on.

Thunder Cage is far and above my favorite. It allows for a great variety of design possibilities, has a very powerful and useful effect, and is balanced by Ground types and Zera. And once again, it hits lyings.

I think Sacred Fire is really interesting and can also lead to a variety of possibilities, but I don’t like it as much due to its low PP. This does allow us to explore more with PP management and keeps it balanced, so it’s not all bad.

In a similar vein, Steam Eruption is another alternative that hasn’t seen much discussion. I think that the offensive presence of Water types in CAP is pretty lacking, especially on the special side. This could allow us to create a good special Water attacker that has defensive utility, or a wide number of other roles. This does share the PP issues of Sacred Fire, but as I mentioned, this isn’t necessarily bad.

One other move I would be interested in exploring would be Shadow Force. Similar to Equilibra, who took a niche/unused move and made it into one of the most polarizing, I think that Shadow Force has similar capabilities. Ghost is only stopped by Dark and Normal types, which from my limited experience aren’t super common in CAP, with our main issues being absorption from Blissey, Bisharp, Tyranitar, and physical walls that would check it anyway. I think there are many possible directions that you could take this move in, from a defensive staller that waits out moves to an offensive breaker that forces and punishes hard switches.

I have recently soured on Core Enforcer. I didn’t realize how niche it truly was, so we wouldn’t really be able to work with its cool effect. Also, it would mandate a Dragon typing, and at this point we’re basically redoing Miasmaw.

I have seen a lot of people discussing Diamond Storm. I personally really dislike this, as it just seems too easy to click the pretty rock button and watch defense go brrrrr. While we could balance our mon around this with low defense, I don’t think that this option really brings anything exciting to the table.

I also personally dislike Oblivion Wing. The move is too dang useful, and likely mandates a Flying type, which, for those who have seen my other CAP 31 posts, will know that I intensely dislike due to their oversaturation in the metagame.

While Jungle Healing is interesting, it mostly makes sense on a bulky wincon, which we don’t really need, and already somewhat explored in Venomicon.
 

dex

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Now that I've had a day to think about it, I want to highlight what I think are the absolute best options here! There are absolutely a ton of viable ones, so these are really just my favorites, this time ranked!
  1. Thunder Cage -- Thunder Cage is sick. Trapping in general is cool from a move perspective, and trapping with an immunity leads to some really interesting counterplay that I think affords us a larger power budget despite having an on-paper very strong move. Like Quziel said, Thunder Cage has a ton of design space and has both offensive and defensive qualities.
  2. Diamond Storm -- I think Mega Diancie is the showcase for how this move works on an offensive mon, and current Diancie showcases how it works on a defensive mon. Overall, it's a generally unique move that is a useful coverage type.
  3. Spectral Thief -- Spectral Thief, like Diamond Storm, has both offensive and defensive capabilities, which I love.
  4. Sacred Fire -- If Sacred Fire had more PP, I think it would be sick on a defensive mon. That being said, Ferro makes due with 8 PP Gyro, so I don't see why it can't work. Making a mon that focuses in on being super hard to switch into sounds like a fun process to me, and Sacred Fire also has both offensive and defensive qualities.
  5. Oblivion Wing -- Strong draining is very unique to Oblivion Wing, and I would love to see what we can do with the move.
  6. Photon Geyser -- This is the absolute top of the top when it comes to the ignoring abilities moves cause it actively promotes mixed offenses, something that is truly unique. Digging into that mixed playstyle would be fairly interesting.
  7. Psystrike -- Psyshock is just generally a cool move, and Psystrike is notably much stronger. I'd be excited to see what we can do with it.
  8. Jungle Healing -- Jungle Healing is much more diverse than what people give it credit for. In UU alone, Zarude runs it on all its sets from HDB Pivot to Scarf to Bulk Up. It is very interesting in that it makes the user able to freely switch into Scald, Sludge Bomb, and Discharge, moves that are normally very hard to switch into.
  9. Fleur Cannon -- I like the absolute nuke moves, and it being Fairy-type, which is generally easier to switch into than, say, Overheat, interests me greatly, though I have cooled off on this one.
  10. Dragon Energy -- Eruption is a very interesting mechanic that pops up in SS CAP quite frequently due to the tier falling in love with Balloon Frog. Dragon Energy introduces the concept of HP management, and while I think it is a lot easier to deal with than Eruption, it is still interesting.
  11. Wicked Blow -- I think Wicked Blow is hilarious cause it is a strong physical Dark-type move that is not Knock Off. Not super interesting beyond that, though it does mess up anyone bringing ID Reuniclus
  12. Thousand Waves -- Trapping moves are cool, I just think this one is just a bit worse than Thunder Cage as a concept.
Yep! Those are the moves I think are really excellent choices. If you notice, my top 5 are all moves that have both defensive and offensive potential, and that is the main reason I think those 5 are up and away the best options, though I would be happy with any of the 12 listed here.

I also thought I would list some moves that have gotten discussion that I think are not good choices:
  • Core Enforcer -- This has been explained, but its effect rarely activates and is sometimes not even helpful!
  • Geomancy -- I think this one is just too straightforward to be all that interesting at the moment
  • Magma Storm -- Are we really going to make a better user of the move than Heatran? I much prefer Thunder Cage
  • Searing Shot -- I think Sacred Fire is just more interesting, 50% is a much bigger deal than 30%
  • Secret Sword -- While the move is cool, I think it is overall too weak to make a concept around
  • Sunsteel Strike -- I straight up prefer Photon Geyser, I think Sunsteel Strike is just that bit less intriguing
  • Techno Blast -- Cool in concept, but I think the move is limited in application, gimmicky, annoying to prep for, and makes the mon not only knock weak but causes the cap to lose its conceptual focus to the most common move in the game. Techno Blast is not it.
  • Thousand Arrows -- We have seen Zygarde use this move time and time again, I don't think there is anything more to learn here
  • Aeroblast -- The whole "consistency" difference here I think is overstated. Hurricane is good, Aeroblast doesn't really teach us anything new.
  • Double Iron Bash -- I used to like this one, but now I think it would be broken on a fast mon, and if we ain't fast, we melm
  • Mind Blown -- Not a move you want to base something off of. Very limited in its execution and just unfun as a concept to me. Probably my least favorite of anything that has been suggested.
  • Ice Burn and Freeze Shock -- If they operated like Meteor Beam, I would be all for them. They do not, and so I think they are not really that interesting.


At the end of this, I want to note that concerns of an "oversaturated" metagame are a bit too doomsaying-ish I think. One of the mons that really helps SS work as a metagame is Weavile due to its typing, and Weavile is offensive as shit! We can make an offensive CAP that is still healthy for the metagame, there is no need to hammer us into a defensive role just yet or nix whole moves cause they would mandate a certain typing. We haven't even gotten to the typing stage yet! For instance, people referencing that another Flying-type would be unhealthy for the metagame do not realize just how much the current SS CAP metagame relies on Zapdos and Tornadus-T to hold things together. Adding another Flying-type, especially one with as potent a defensive option as Oblivion Wing, would be healthy IMO, so don't fret too much about meta saturation! This isn't me campaigning for that move just yet, but I do think that overall, people need to stop worrying about what a move would do to the metagame and focus more on what would be an interesting move to work with. No one ever knows how a CAP is going to play out, so lets just focus on the stage at hand.
 
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Now that I've had a day to think about it, I want to highlight what I think are the absolute best options here! There are absolutely a ton of viable ones, so these are really just my favorites, this time ranked!
  1. Thunder Cage -- Thunder Cage is sick. Trapping in general is cool from a move perspective, and trapping with an immunity leads to some really interesting counterplay that I think affords us a larger power budget despite having an on-paper very strong move. Like Quziel said, Thunder Cage has a ton of design space and has both offensive and defensive qualities.
  2. Diamond Storm -- I think Mega Diancie is the showcase for how this move works on an offensive mon, and current Diancie showcases how it works on a defensive mon. Overall, it's a generally unique move that is a useful coverage type.
  3. Spectral Thief -- Spectral Thief, like Diamond Storm, has both offensive and defensive capabilities, which I love.
  4. Sacred Fire -- If Sacred Fire had more PP, I think it would be sick on a defensive mon. That being said, Ferro makes due with 8 PP Gyro, so I don't see why it can't work. Making a mon that focuses in on being super hard to switch into sounds like a fun process to me, and Sacred Fire also has both offensive and defensive qualities.
  5. Oblivion Wing -- Strong draining is very unique to Oblivion Wing, and I would love to see what we can do with the move. Unfortunate that it all but requires the Flying-typing.
  6. Photon Geyser -- This is the absolute top of the top when it comes to the ignoring abilities moves cause it actively promotes mixed offenses, something that is truly unique. Digging into that mixed playstyle would be fairly interesting.
  7. Psystrike -- Psyshock is just generally a cool move, and Psystrike is notably much stronger. I'd be excited to see what we can do with it.
  8. Jungle Healing -- Jungle Healing is much more diverse than what people give it credit for. In UU alone, Zarude runs it on all its sets from HDB Pivot to Scarf to Bulk Up. It is very interesting in that it makes the user able to freely switch into Scald, Sludge Bomb, and Discharge, moves that are normally very hard to switch into.
  9. Fleur Cannon -- I like the absolute nuke moves, and it being Fairy-type, which is generally easier to switch into than, say, Overheat, interests me greatly, though I have cooled off on this one.
  10. Dragon Energy -- Eruption is a very interesting mechanic that pops up in SS CAP quite frequently due to the tier falling in love with Balloon Frog. Dragon Energy introduces the concept of HP management, and while I think it is a lot easier to deal with than Eruption, it is still interesting.
  11. Wicked Blow -- I think Wicked Blow is hilarious cause it is a strong physical Dark-type move that is not Knock Off. Not super interesting beyond that, though it does mess up anyone bringing ID Reuniclus
  12. Thousand Waves -- Trapping moves are cool, I just think this one is just a bit worse than Thunder Cage as a concept.
Yep! Those are the moves I think are really excellent choices. If you notice, my top 5 are all moves that have both defensive and offensive potential, and that is the main reason I think those 5 are up and away the best options, though I would be happy with any of the 12 listed here.

I also thought I would list some moves that have gotten discussion that I think are not good choices:
  • Core Enforcer -- This has been explained, but its effect rarely activates and is sometimes not even helpful!
  • Geomancy -- I think this one is just too straightforward to be all that interesting at the moment
  • Magma Storm -- Are we really going to make a better user of the move than Heatran? I much prefer Thunder Cage
  • Searing Shot -- I think Sacred Fire is just more interesting, 50% is a much bigger deal than 30%
  • Secret Sword -- While the move is cool, I think it is overall too weak to make a concept around
  • Sunsteel Strike -- I straight up prefer Photon Geyser, I think Sunsteel Strike is just that bit less intriguing
  • Techno Blast -- Cool in concept, but then you realize that you have made the most Knock Off weak mon ever.
  • Thousand Arrows -- We have seen Zygarde use this move time and time again, I don't think there is anything more to learn here
  • Aeroblast -- The whole "consistency" difference here I think is overstated. Hurricane is good, Aeroblast doesn't really teach us anything new.
  • Double Iron Bash -- I used to like this one, but now I think it would be broken on a fast mon, and if we ain't fast, we melm
  • Mind Blown -- Not a move you want to base something off of. Very limited in its execution and just unfun as a concept to me. Probably my least favorite of anything that has been suggested.
  • Ice Burn and Freeze Shock -- If they operated like Meteor Beam, I would be all for them. They do not, and so I think they are not really that interesting.


At the end of this, I want to note that concerns of an "oversaturated" metagame are a bit too doomsaying-ish I think. One of the mons that really helps SS work as a metagame is Weavile due to its typing, and Weavile is offensive as shit! We can make an offensive CAP that is still healthy for the metagame, there is no need to hammer us into a defensive role just yet or nix whole moves cause they would mandate a certain typing. We haven't even gotten to the typing stage yet! For instance, people referencing that another Flying-type would be unhealthy for the metagame do not realize just how much the current SS CAP metagame relies on Zapdos and Tornadus-T to hold things together. Adding another Flying-type, especially one with as potent a defensive option as Oblivion Wing, would be healthy IMO, so don't fret too much about meta saturation! This isn't me campaigning for that move just yet, but I do think that overall, people need to stop worrying about what a move would do to the metagame and focus more on what would be an interesting move to work with. No one ever knows how a CAP is going to play out, so lets just focus on the stage at hand.
Gotta hyper focus on one point for a sec....genesect can't have the drive it's carrying knocked off. So why couldn't CAP 31 be coded the same way? Then it's super diverse and definitely not knock off weak. Even if it still was, doesn't that just add another layer of play/counter play? For instance, if it had justified as an ability and/or resisted (maybe even 4x resisted) knock off, then people are far less incentived to spam it into your team. If 31 had something like say first impression, then even if the drive does get knocked off, you revenge kill whatever did it. I feel like there are tons of ways to make it viable even with the threat of knock off
 

dex

And then, Hefest got this run
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Gotta hyper focus on one point for a sec....genesect can't have the drive it's carrying knocked off. So why couldn't CAP 31 be coded the same way? Then it's super diverse and definitely not knock off weak. Even if it still was, doesn't that just add another layer of play/counter play? For instance, if it had justified as an ability and/or resisted (maybe even 4x resisted) knock off, then people are far less incentived to spam it into your team. If 31 had something like say first impression, then even if the drive does get knocked off, you revenge kill whatever did it. I feel like there are tons of ways to make it viable even with the threat of knock off
Drives cannot be knocked from Genesect because they trigger a forme change. They can, however, be knocked from literally every other Pokemon. Custom elements like what you are suggesting are not allowed by CAP.
 
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I be talking about da moves

Photon Geyser feels a little bit underdiscussed at the moment, and it's probably my favorite option at the moment. Admittedly, Necrozma already uses the move excellently but what's really exciting to me is the way the move enables mixed attacking sets. With a plethora of abilities and moves to choose from that can boost Attack or Special Attack, combined with the prevalence of Lando Intimidate and Moonblast SpA drops allows CAP31 to optimally be either a physical or special attacker at any given time. For instance, a primarily physical attacking CAP31 could hit an incoming Landorus for special damage after Intimidate. Cases like these I feel offers plenty of interesting design space in the move that Necrozma does not already tread on.

Thunder Cage is fine, but I can't say I'm a fan of the move. In terms of Electric types, Koko, Zera, and Zap are all very strong at the moment and I feel like any Electric will need a lot to justify their use over these three. Granted, trapping is a pretty large selling point for this. My problem here is that I fear Thunder Cage CAP31 will play very similarly to our preexisting electrics, in the sense that it can slowly wear down Lando and then pop off once Lando dies. The fact that CAP31 doesn't get much value off Thunder Cage until late into the game makes me a little skeptical that we can truly lean into the trapping aspects as much as we'd like to.

Core Enforcer is incredibly underwhelming. It frankly interacts with so little in the metagame and anything that would be affected by it can simply switch out. Forcing switches where you otherwise wouldn't is semi-interesting, but building a process around generally marginal cases seems not great. There's arguably merit to having a 100/100 Dragon move but I don't think there's enough space for a process there either.

Techno Blast is really interesting to me, although it is a risky choice. The idea of picking and choosing coverage and choosing what answers us and what doesn't is quite cool, as discussed already. I see a lot of similarities to Specs Dragapult here, where Dragapult has a lot of options for its 4th move between Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, and sometimes Thunderbolt and I think that we can extrapolate from this to create a CAP that has its own defined take on coverage while not being a scouting nightmare. The interaction with the item is also noteworthy, as yes, it makes us Knock weak, but also gives us multiple options between whether or not we even want to choose a drive.

Diamond Storm, Sacred Fire, and Oblivion Wing I kinda all feel the same about. They are strong moves with very strong side effects. I like them all and am confident they'll make a good process.

Spectral Thief I'm slightly less excited about because I again struggle to find situations where its secondary effect comes into play. Stealing boosts will frequently necessitate that we end up having to eat boosted hits and it seems somewhat impossible to build a mon that can take these hits from every setup mon in the tier. I feel like Spectral Thief CAP31 will likely end up targeting a specific few setup mons, and I'm unsure if I like that as a direction.

Yeah I may add more later
 

LucarioOfLegends

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I'm just gonna cover my individual thoughts on basically all of them. It'll be easiest for me to narrow it down from there

Aeroblast: High-crit moves are super interesting and Aeroblast is far more consistent of a move than most other options that Flying types would have. I'm not certain how possible or interesting it would be to lean into the actual critical hit portion of the move, but crit-abuser is a really interesting niche.

Astral Barrage: Special Ghost-type moves are well explored territory with Shadow Ball, especially considering Dragapult's proficiency with it, so Astral Barrage just seems like complete overkill and would actually be trickier to balance than most moves here due to the sheer neutral coverage of the Ghost-type. There is an argument it could make a decent third stab candidate but I think there are much more interesting moves to be explored for that purpose.

Behemoth Blade/Behemoth Bash/Dynamax Cannon: Grouping together since their secondary effects are basically the same. These moves really only become interesting in the context of Dynamax, which is banned in the format. As such, there's really not much to actually learn from these moves and their base pp actually makes them far weaker than one may realize. The Behemoth moves especially would have to compete with Sunsteel Strike, which has a really interesting effect that could be worth exploring. I really don't see much reason to actively explore these moves when stuff like Sunsteel Strike and Core Enforcer cover their ground but with more interesting effects.

Blue Flare: Aside from losing 10% burn chance, this really just seems like Fire Blast but stronger. Not bad in itself but I really don't think its too interesting to cover aside from the higher power argument, which is shared by the majority of the list.

Bolt Strike: Now this one is interesting, but for a more contextual reasoning. Good Physical Electric-type moves are extremely hard to come across, and the opportunity to build with one is a unique opportunity itself. It lacks a super interesting effect to fully invest me in the thought, but a mon that uses Physical Electric type move that isn't Zeraora could be worth it. (I also forgot the Zolts exist but my thoughts remain the same on the move)

Core Enforcer: Completely suppressing an ability is something that is nearly unheard of in the metagame, and that in itself makes it absolutely riveting to explore, and something that could produce a really interesting product. It has some quirks as well, as it can only suppress after the opponent uses a move that could also be an interesting challenge to overcome, since moving second in Pokemon is usually really unoptimal.

Crush Grip: Its interesting to an extent, but the move also just kind of sucks. Its formula is based on the opponents HP, and the Normal typing will make it really, really hard to actually get kills or even threaten the mon depending on how low they are. Its the only move so far that makes me question if CAP31 would even actually use it as opposed to other options in its lineup, and that's not really an optimistic sign of a good process.

Diamond Storm: Absolutely a cool move but I've developed this edge of skepticism with regards to it. Can't really put it into words but there's something stopping me about throwing myself behind it, maybe it's that I don't think it can make a mon distinct from what Diancie already does?

Doom Desire: Already covered extensively in Equilibra's process, don't see any reason to touch on this move again.

Double Iron Bash: I think Melmetal's presence in the meta makes this less interesting as a whole, but there is technically room to explore its flinch chance. This would however be absolute cancer to actually play with, so I'm honestly not interested in touching that move.

Dragon Energy: Honestly kind of a cool move. Its another massive stab move but health management sounds like a really interesting portion that makes it different from the sea of other high power moves that really only offer their high power.

Dragon's Ascent: Flying-type Close Combat just really doesn't sound fun to cover, especially when Brave Bird already exist and is very fun in itself.

Eternabeam / Prismatic Laser / Roar Of Time: They are recharge moves but that in itself is unexplored in the meta, and asking how we could actually use these moves effectively despite their drawbacks could be really interesting, especially considering their power. It falls close to Crush Grip problems of being dropped for something more consistent, but it does have actual reward so it produces an interesting set of questions.

Fiery Wrath: Kind of just Dark Pulse but more, not really seeing an interesting forward with this one.

Fleur Cannon: Magearna was very proficient with the move while it was still here, but it becomes a bit more interesting to look at once you seperate it from Soul Heart. Those drops actually begin to matter, and looking into the dealing with the drops could lead to a good process. I'm skeptical though, as users of moves like Draco Meteor and Overheat already have to ask that question.

Freeze Shock / Ice Burn / Shadow Force: Suffers similar problems from the recharge signature moves, but the prospect of Power Herb with these moves is moderately intriguing, with stuff like Icium Z Kyurem-B coming to mind (though that mon ran Freeze Shock for a different reason). It'd be tricky and I think its actually a little too narrow, but could still be fun to look into. Otherwise feel neutral about it.

Freezing Glare: Psychic but with a more annoying secondary effect. Pass. Make it frostbite and then we'll talk.

Fusion Bolt / Fusion Flare: I'd pass on these, there effects have no chance of being used these days and they are extremely uninteresting aside from their power. Fusion Bolt is better as it can fill that physical Electric niche mentioned earlier but Bolt Strike is a more interesting option in my opinion for that.

Geomancy: Xerneas already rocks this move far better than anyone else and there isn't any cool routes to go aside from what has been seen before between the deer and Necturna (due to Sketch).

Glacial Lance: I unironically think that this could be really cool, and is my current favorite of the third stab ideology. Ice moves aren't massively consistent on the physical side (Triple Axel is the closest and it does have its miss chance per hit), and Glacial Lance does fill that hole. Its also does have resistance problems that make it way more interesting than its spectral brother. If we were to pick a move that has high power and only has high power, this would be the one I actually choose.

Glaciate: Speed drops are cool on paper, but this move is piss weak when compared to other legendary sigs (65 bp is yikes) and not even 100% accurate. Makes it very hard to justify when you could get way more mileage out of more traditional Ice-type moves.

Jungle Healing: I can't escape this move man. Jungle Healing does have a cool effect, but its deceptively weak and leads to more self-sufficient play. This isn't a bad thing on the outset, but Zarude already uses it in this way and I don't see as many interesting routes past that.

Land's Wrath: This move is awful please don't choose it.

Lunar Dance: An interesting signature move, but I'm not sure how much it would be able to differentiate itself from Healing Wish users already, even considering its boosted effects.

Luster Purge / Mist Ball: These moves are somehow weaker than Psychic and their effects really don't make up for it. I see no chance of us choosing these moves and I wouldn't want them anyway.

Magma Storm: A cool move but I genuinely think Heatran uses it really well already and doesn't seem interesting compared to the other more interesting trapping moves.

Mind Blown: This is a really cool move. The recoil of the move means one has to be really careful in the specific usage of the move, but the power definitely pays off as a reward and Steel Beam's usage on mons before shows that these rewards can be worth it. Actually incentivizing it may be trickier but its absolutely something that would be fun to mold a process around.

Moongeist Beam / Sunsteel Strike: Grouped together since similar effects. I think they are absolutely interesting moves that could be really fun to work with, but the current state of the metagame may not entirely be indicative of them, considering how offensively minded the bypass is. Of the two Moongeist Beam is better, but Sunsteel Strike would be a more interesting process.

Nature's Madness: I want to say this is already used well by Tapu Fini, but Super Fang that hits Ghosts is a really interesting status move that could translate to other contexts, perhaps on a mon with less four moveslot syndrome. Its not incredibly interesting (once again Tapu Fini already uses it nicely) but could be worth looking into.

Oblivion Wing: quziel mentioned this is just a goodstuff move and I basically agree, but the sheer number of Pokemon that this move could work on makes it once of the most flexible here. The 75% drain is just an incredibly strong effect and the 80 BP is absolutely servicable with that strong of an effect. PP is great too. There really wouldn't be a wrong way to approach this one and take makes it a very strong contender.

Origin Pulse / Precipice Blades: Just another set of high power moves, with the problem being these two types already have greatly consistent moves so it becomes less interesting to look into.

Photon Geyser: I chose to seperate it from the other two Light Trio moves due to its interesting damage formula, which would be the reason this gets looked into over those two. It would be a little tricky to do, but the ability for it to be either bias depending on 31's attack could lead to interesting set customization if the stats allow for it. It also does still have the ability bypass effect which could offer an extra layer of complexity to the move.

Plasma Fists: I think Zeraora uses this move plenty well as it is right now.

Psystrike: Being just Psyshock but stronger is a bit of a bummer and really only adds up to interesting stuff from a purely offensive front, especially since Psyshock is common on plenty of Psychic-type as it is. Don't really think there's a ton to explore here.

Sacred Fire / Searing Shot: Grouping both because the sheer burn utility is just riveting whilst keeping up offensive power. Sacred Fire is slightly better due to the higher burn chance, but I think both could leverage that tool in a more utility focused way.

Secret Sword: It suffers the same problems as with Psyshock, but Fighting-type does make it slightly worse of a move. It would still be interesting since the move really isn't translated completely anywhere else, but we could do much better.

Spacial Rend: I genuinely forgot this move existed. Completely neutral no thoughts whatsoever.

Spectral Thief: Now this one is cool. Stat stealing is an effect that was wasted on a mon that was already broken, so Spectral Thief is an intensely unique move compared to the rest that it is absolutely worth mentioning. It can also be taken in many different direction and still wind up creating a wholly unique mon. Definitely a favorite for a reason.

Steam Eruption: Scald but stronger. It could fall under the same area as Sacred Fire and Searing Shot, but Scald is a strong enough tool as is that I feel like there's far less to explore.

Surging Strikes: Meh, I think Urshifu-R has this move pretty well covered at this point. There might be some interesting ideas on a mon that isn't as strong offensively but it still doesn't strike me with passion.

Techno Blast: This move has carried entire concepts by itself for good reason. Just the sheer customizability in coverage that this move provides is extremely interesting from a conceptual front, and the cost of having to drop an item to accommodate is really unique, even if slightly explored nowadays by Venomicon-E. The trickiest element is definitely making sure that the mon does indeed stay balance despite have four (technically five with no drive) possible coverage types which are all very strong in their own right, but considering the resources we have at our disposal I think its entirely possible to do correctly, and dismissing it would be a shame due to the sheer potential this move has.

Multi-Attack: While I like the above I don't feel as strongly about Silvally's signature, just because it has all of the potential problems squared. Five is already a lot but eighteen (even if less than half are actually viable thats still more than Techno Blast) sounds like a nightmare to keep balanced.

Thousand Arrows: This honestly has the highest potential of slipping out of hand just based on its previous track record with Zygarde-50%, although Zygarde-10% also proves it can be balanced if handled carefully. However, its really just not a hyper interesting move to actually explore past "ok how do we not make something broken with this" since Zygarde handled the move very effectively.

Thousand Waves / Thunder Cage: What really makes these moves work is their weaknesses: a common type is immune to them. This makes them vastly different to approach as compared to the Pajantom process or even Magma Storm, as you really gotta think before you click these moves. It adds just the right amount of spice to really bring them into their own, and I think both could work really well.

Thunderous Kick: Its a strong move as it is, but what really sells me is the utility: a guaranteed defense drop. Putting that kind of pressure onto the opponent could result in some really interesting play, and the move could work on both a faster and slower offensive mon. It could spiral out of control if not handled careful but it leaves far less worried than many other moves on this list.

V-Create: Honestly? I think Victini has this move completely locked down both on the balance department and its potential. There is the argument of creating a mon without Victini levels of coverage but that doesn't leave much to be desired.

Wicked Blow: This one holds a bit more merit, just because its on the banished bear Urshifu-S. Asking ourselves how to actually approach this move without breaking it could be neat, and I think the effect is notably less obnoxious than something like Thousand Arrows. I'm not sold it myself but I don't think it should be taken of the table.

I'll compile a tl;dr later I just want to stop looking at this thing.
 
Don't really have much to say here, but figured I would address some things regarding a couple of the options I feel strongly about (Either postively or negatively).

Techno Blast: While I understand the concerns behind the Knock Off weakness, I feel like they are honestly a bit overblown. I fully believe that there are ways that we can either less or even circumvent our weakness to Knock Off during the process, and even if we decide not to take those routes, a huge weakness to Knock Off is hardly the end of the world for a mon just on its own. Krillowatt for instance, lives and dies by its Life Orb, and as soon as it loses its item, for all intents and purposes is pretty much out of the battle. Despite this, it still does fairly well in the current metagame, which is reflected by its decent tournament success and a fairly good ranking on the current VR (B+). In fact, I'm actually under the belief that the Knock Off weakness given to us by Techno Blast might be something that is worth exploring during the process as a potential balancing tool, since it gives us a bit of a means to help offset the sheer unpredictability that is given to us by the move. Besides, even if we do get Knocked Off, a base 120 BP Normal Type move is still strong enough to pressure a good number of defensive threats in the current metagame.

Double Iron Bash: This hasn't really been talked about all that much, but I've seen it a few times so I figured I would bring it up. This is probably my least favorite option on the entire list, and my biggest problem with this is that inherently, the move just feels very uncompetitive. A base 52% flinch chance is just way too high in my opinion to be worth risking on anything that isn't slow as molasses like Melmetal, and outside of contact effects (Which can be circumvented to an effect with Protective Pads), there really isn't a whole lot of counter-play this either. I guess we could offset this by making ourselves very slow, but when it comes to a slow mon utilizing this move, Melmetal sort of already does this perfectly in my opinion, and even if we want to go with the route of a third STAB option, there are better options on the list that we can go with (I'm honestly not a huge fan of the third STAB moves, but if I had to pick one I would probably go with Glacial Lance).

Jungle Healing: ngl I'm only talking about this as an excuse to annoy kjnjkmk1 While I think this move is seen pretty postively overall, one aspect I'm not really seen being talked about outside of quziel's post is that this move is surprisingly really versatile. In addition to the obvious routes as acting like sort of a bulky win-con in the same way that Zarude often uses it, and with the route of a stallbreaker that I'm seeing brought up quite a bit, I think we could actually use this move really well on a defensive pivot. While the healing isn't much admittedly, it's still good enough to boost our longevity significantly enough for it to alleviate a lot of longevity issues that a lot of Pokemon taking on this role often face, and as a result I could see it making both for a very interesting process and would be a very welcome addition to the current metagame.
 
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Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
I don't have much to say at this stage, but I think Thousand Waves is the most engaging. As a defensive Pokemon, denying Heatran turns to trap and Taunt you is great; as an offensive Pokemon, Ground naturally complementary coverage for a lot of types and a decent STAB in its own right. Between trapping options, Thunder Cage's trapping damage is strong and Electric is a good type in its own right, but across different roles and the current structure of the metagame, Thousand Waves ticks all the boxes I want from a move.
 
Drives cannot be knocked from Genesect because they trigger a forme change. They can, however, be knocked from literally every other Pokemon. Custom elements like what you are suggesting are not allowed by CAP.
Fair point on the super custom thing. Totally concede that point...but the other things I suggested are totally withing scope for our process
 
Welp, time to throw my hat into the ring.

Thunder Cage:
Definitely my favorite pick atm. I think that while the common immunity to Electric gives us more options to play with compared to if this was Magma Storm for power budget, I frankly feel that there is a lot of design space for this as a partial trapping move. Heatran may get good usage out of Magma Storm, but from my perspective its trapping effect is more of a cherry on top for Heatran than anything. It appreciates the move but it does not revolve around it either, I’d say. Because of this, Thunder Cage has quite a lot of room to run. This is also why I much prefer Thunder Cage to Thousand Waves, as while we definitely still have room to explore due to the immunity bit, letting us give utility moves without breaking the Pokémon, I do feel Pajantom covered a fair bit of ground in regards to permanent trapping. Both moves can work, but the only major difference I see in terms of Thousand Waves vs Pajantom is being a worse neutral type, letting us give more powerful additional moves than we could consider for Pajantom. This benefit is seen in Thunder Cage on top of having significantly more unexplored design space, making me much prefer it. I honestly feel that this is the move that can most easily drive a process while not being a hassle to work with (unlike some moves)

Diamond Storm: Another favorite of mine. This is arguably the best Rock-type attack in the game (Stealth Rock is a move but not an attack, shut), and damn reliable at that given its 95% accuracy. Its 50/50 chance to give +2 Defense is useful for any role and adds an additional dimension to the process. It’s not a complicated move but it’s a damn good one.

Oblivion Wing: This one is similar to Diamond Storm in terms of being a simple but reliably good move, but I find myself not liking it as much? It’s not even necessarily “too many fliers” given how we can obviously choose to not make it yet another breaker. I’m not sure why I don’t feel this is the play, but perhaps it’s something about not seeing a process centered around this? Oblivion Wing definitely works but I think in terms of goodstuff attacks I’d rather just go for Diamond Storm.

Jungle Healing: Despite becoming a CAP meme, when you seriously look at it the move is rather appealing. In a metagame with very few viable ways to cure status, Jungle Healing sets CAP31 apart immediately, and the 1/4 healing is the cherry on top. It’s also worth noting that given that this is a status move that it is arguably the least restrictive option in terms of typing. I will say also that of the popular moves that this is arguably the least flashy, giving us lots of room in the power budget leftover, which is neat. In terms of roles, while Zarude definitely uses it in offensive contexts to a fair degree in UU, I do sense there is at least some room for exploration in terms of what a Jungle Healing Pokémon can do in CAP. Overall I’m rather fond of Jungle Healing. Not my absolute favorite but definitely up there.

Techno Blast: I used to be more supportive of the move, but I think in practice we may struggle to make it actually worth our while. Knock Off doesn’t just make the Pokémon unusable but removes its entire identity, given how the drives work. We could work around this, but this may pidgeonhole the process somewhat. Also, while defensive roles can theoretically work, Techno Blast leans primarily towards offensive roles, which hurts compared to other mentioned options like Diamond Storm and Jungle Healing. Lastly, Techno Blast can potentially be rather annoying to build against, given the coverage options. I’m not fully convinced this is the worst choice ever, but my opinion has definitely soured a fair bit on Techno Blast.

Spectral Thief: Frankly this one just seems bonkers to where I sense we’d have to jump through hoops to balance it. Yeah I was half-asleep when I wrote this one lmao. Spectral Thief can definitely be balanced around, and there are a fair number of roles that it can be used for. I do stand by the idea that the move could turn CAP31 into a breaker if we aren’t careful, and I find it less interesting than the other moves I like, but this one’s okay I guess.

Core Enforcer:
I used to like this move, but as others have pointed out, the list of Pokémon we could neutralize abilities for with great effect is a rather slim one. Beyond that, it’s a reliable move in a type without one, but it near requires Dragon type to be worth it. No thanks.

ok goodnight y’all
(Edited the Spectral Thief section)
 
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I happen to like Techno Blast since it has use with the various drives regardless of our CAP's typing, but Techno Blast with a standard item is a bit limiting. also i like normal rep

But seriously, I am rooting for Diamond Storm and Jungle Healing due to potential to do various things besides the thing we think they could do best. I also like the idea of an Electric trapping attack with Thunder Cage, since Magma Storm already has use by Heatran.
 

Voltage

OTTN5
is a Pre-Contributor
I don't really have much more to add here. The discussion in this thread, as well on the CAP channel on Discord has been incredibly useful informing my opinions on my three topic choices right now. As it stands, my favorite moves are the ones that allow for us to have a complex discussion about what a move can do for a Pokemon, and so things like Aeroblast or Double Iron Bash don't really stand out to me that much. In contrast, I'm really fascinated by Jungle Healing, Diamond Storm, and Thunder Cage in that order (with Oblivion Wing and Spectral Thief also existing as other options that aren't my favorite, but would be fine with working with.

I know it's been covered to death, but I think Jungle Healing is an incredibly versatile move that will make this process an interesting one. We can see how it allows Zarude to run a plethora of different sets, all viable as a result of the move. I'd be curious to see in what ways we could make this CAP work differently from Zarude if we go down this path, or if we wanted to fix some issues that we have with Zarude. There's also a lot of nuance in understanding how a mon that gets 5% healing + a status clearing can be used on a variety of different playstyles given its remaining typing, moves, stats, and abilities. In short, Jungle Healing is easily my favorite.

Diamond Storm is also a really interesting one that I hadn't initially considered. However, upon further investigation, I would be very curious to see what we can do with a potential +2 Defense boost on a given Pokemon. As others have metnione, we've seen what this move can do for an offensive Pokemon like Mega Diancie, as well as a defensive one like base Diancie in NU. But what about a mon that doesn't immedaitely die to a Steel move? I think the competitive, in-match, capabilities this move has a significant amount of potential, especially when you consider the current meta's abundance of flying spam.

Thunder Cage is also neat in the same vein that Thousand Waves is. The reason I prefer Cage to Waves, however, is that it is new territory to explore via typing. We've seen plenty of Ground type trapping via Dugtrio in other generations, and while Arena Trap isn't Thousand Waves, I would be much more interested in seeing what a trapper with Electric type coverage would do. I don't want to poll-jump here but I will say that I think even if we do pursue Thunder Cage as our desired move, this wouldn't necessarily imply that this mon would be an Electric type. Sure you see Pajantom using STAB Spirit Shackle and you see Heatran using STAB Magma Storm, but I think using thunder Cage allows us to see whether a mon would even bother using Thunder Cage if it didn't get a STAB boost. Just a thought that had entered my head when considering Cage.

I realize again that most of this post is reiterating what's already been said in the thread, but I think it's important to voice ones opinions in these threads since ultimately, if you don't share your thoughts, then there'll never be any record of that opinion in the first place.
 
I'd like to put out my own thoughts on a few moves on the list, so here goes:

I'm very much a fan of Thunder Cage here, because although trapping is fairly well known, this move has clear counterplay in the form of Ground types and otherwise . Exploring what we can do to mitigate or potentially take advantage of that might be quite interesting, because we can do this in a variety of ways which means we're not gonna be railroaded towards a specific role. I'm less interested in Thousand Waves because having to deal with 50/50s involving strong Flying types switching feels incredibly risky in the current state of the meta.

I'd also like to voice my support for Diamond Storm. Like others have mentioned, this move works on a variety of builds, as we have seen with Mega Diancie in SM as well as base Diancie right now. Free defense boosts are incredibly useful for pretty much any Pokémon, but other than that the move is just a very solid physical Rock move in general when compared to the likes of Rock Slide and Stone Edge. I'm excited to see the implications carrying this move on a set has on how the rest of the Pokémon is gonna shape out, whether it's STAB or not.

Oblivion Wing could be cool as a strong special Flying move on pretty much anything, and the passive healing helps a lot regardless of the role we take on. I'm a bit wary of making yet another strong Flying type attacker, but I don't think STAB is absolutely necessary here either.

You may notice a trend here, but I'm also really liking Jungle Healing as well. I'm all for the utility this move brings even if the healing isn't all that potent by itself. Zarude makes stellar use of the move across different sets, but this does not mean we can't learn from it anymore. I'd like to see where we can do with this one :o

On the contrary, I don't really like Techno Blast much. While the idea of having multiple coverage options but only one at a time is interesting, I fear that it's going to massively restrict the rest of the move stage in order to make it work; we're going to have to heavily limit the other coverage it gets and even then our Pokémon might start doing things outside of Techno Blast entirely. Genesect itself could also just as easily run Band or Scarf sets when it was in OU, and the guessing game this created let it beat its own would-be checks, which led to its ban. I'm quite fearful of this happening for us as well given the recent history of CAPs getting nerfed after release, although the post-play lookback would provide clarity on this I guess.

Moves that are just big damage nukes like Glacial Lance and V-Create don't really interest me much when used as STAB, but I think they are cool as strong off-coverage options almost like a third STAB similar to Boomburst. Obviously this pretty much immediately gets into polljumping territory though, so I don't see this working out.

Random thoughts: Moves that are just slightly stronger/type swapped versions of existing moves (Psystrike, Thunderous Kick, etc.) kind of bore me as we know what these do already for the most part. Wicked Blow could probably be cool on something that doesn't have a ridiculous attack stat? I really like Photon Geyser for its unique effect (I'm not biased at all :^) ), although I'd understand if people wouldn't want to deal with this considering Necrozma is quite a good user in the meta already.
 
With regards to Techno Blast, I think that many people are overblowing the Knock Off weakness. Many mons in many metas are terrified of Knock Off (see Ubers Ho-oh, Da Pizza Man's comments about Krilowatt, Talonflame, Frosmoth). They can still remain viable by threatening Knock users in some way: Ho-oh statuses Yveltal and Necrozma-DM, its most common Knockers, Krilowatt easily pivots on them to bring in checks, Talonflame also pivots and has Flame Body, and Frosmoth threatens with setup. There are ways in which they can discourage Knock Off inherent to their design; this could be a great aspect to explore with CAP 31! Additionally, though this does jump ahead and may be 'too easy,' it is possible to give CAP 31 Sticky Hold as an ability option. This could give players an interesting choice of choosing Knock Off immunity or a more powerful offensive ability. This is a bit polljumpy, but I just want to mention that it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Once again, I'll be voicing my distaste for Diamond Storm. The move is just too easy to use; it has no immunities, has a vastly powerful effect, good damage and consistency, and has immense utility on any archetype of mon. For offensive mons, it can prevent revenge killing; for a defensive mon, it makes it immensely physically bulky. It's a good thing it has 8 PP, otherwise the move would be far and away the most broken option we have. I just think that we have better options with more interesting design possibilities with actual counterplay.
 

Rabia

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I hate Multi-Attack frankly as an option and also have issues with Techno Blast. Hidden Power's removal from the game was great because it meant Pokemon didn't get to have random coverage for their checks and counters; both of these moves reintroduce that issue, and although there's the caveat of them being weak to Knock Off, I feel giving insanely strong, random coverage options is not in our best interests.

All of the recharge moves feel very boring to explore. Sure, there's some intrigue in trying to "solve" these moves so to speak, but to me they feel like a mystery box that's guaranteed to scam you. Yes, you could get something neat out of them, but will you actually?

The trapping moves are interesting for a variety of reasons, most notably because we've seen them used in OMs for more than just their utility. This is the biggest reason I'm a fan of them because they don't lock us to a stallbreaker route, and I like us having our options open.

I'm honestly a decent fan of considering Wicked Blow and Thousand Arrows despite them being the primary reasons Urshifu-S and Zygarde were broken. It'd be interesting to me to see us create a Pokemon that successfully utilizes these options in such a way that leads to a balanced creation, although it's easy to see the risks inherent in picking such a dominant move.

Oblivion Wing I still fail to see the hype in. It does damage and heals---yay? It's clearly an incredible move and alone could carry a CAP to viability, but I'm failing to see why this move creates an interesting process going forward.

Moves like Surging Strikes and Plasma Fists I'm opposed to because we have Pokemon currently available to us that use these moves very well. I don't think we get a whole lot out of exploring them further.

Sacred Fire and Searing Shot could be cool if explored from a defensive route, which (mostly) goes against the grain of what they're normally used for, but I feel we already have this angle covered by defensive Water-types that spam Scald.

Core Enforcer I think sucks for reasons quziel has already stated.

I'm not actually opposed to looking into Mind Blown because Blacephalon doesn't actually use the move (on any consistent basis at least). There certainly exist ways to compensate for the 50% HP cut with abilities and recovery moves down the road. To me at least, it's more interesting than the recharge moves.
 
To put it simply, 100 power move with a 50% burn chance is really freaking interesting. There's a ton of routes you could go with this; Hex mixed attacker, defensive threat that draws in mons like Shifu-R and Lando-T, only to cripple them a la Heatran, and probably more that I can't think of at 1:30 AM in the morning. The compression of status spreading+damage (especially damage as significant as 100bp) in general is really cool; status spreading in itself is valuable utility, and being able to use that status spread as coverage against certain opposing Pokemon opens up vast design space and interesting learning outcomes w.r.t the role of status spread on a team, the value of PP and how to maximize the impact of low PP moves, and role compression in general.
I wanted to chime in to echo Zephyri's interest in Sacred Fire. Similar to Diamond Storm, my alternate favorite option, I think this is a great choice as it offers both offensive and defensive power. I think exploring options around these moves as powerful utility coverage, STAB options, etc. gives us a ton of design space while still leaving plenty of room for interesting discussions. I'm not seeing as much support for Sacred Fire but I find it has a great design space while carrying a risk in things like Heatran who pack an immunity or even some of the threats like Colossoil who like a burn. I think there's more risk/reward to Sacred Fire compared to Diamond Storm which I find more interesting.
 
With regards to Techno Blast, I think that many people are overblowing the Knock Off weakness. Many mons in many metas are terrified of Knock Off (see Ubers Ho-oh, Da Pizza Man's comments about Krilowatt, Talonflame, Frosmoth). They can still remain viable by threatening Knock users in some way: Ho-oh statuses Yveltal and Necrozma-DM, its most common Knockers, Krilowatt easily pivots on them to bring in checks, Talonflame also pivots and has Flame Body, and Frosmoth threatens with setup. There are ways in which they can discourage Knock Off inherent to their design; this could be a great aspect to explore with CAP 31! Additionally, though this does jump ahead and may be 'too easy,' it is possible to give CAP 31 Sticky Hold as an ability option. This could give players an interesting choice of choosing Knock Off immunity or a more powerful offensive ability. This is a bit polljumpy, but I just want to mention that it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Once again, I'll be voicing my distaste for Diamond Storm. The move is just too easy to use; it has no immunities, has a vastly powerful effect, good damage and consistency, and has immense utility on any archetype of mon. For offensive mons, it can prevent revenge killing; for a defensive mon, it makes it immensely physically bulky. It's a good thing it has 8 PP, otherwise the move would be far and away the most broken option we have. I just think that we have better options with more interesting design possibilities with actual counterplay.
I think you are sort of over-exaggerating just how hard it is to play around Diamond Storm, as I think there is plenty of legitmate counterplay in the current metagame. Yes the added physical bulk does make it harder to revenge kill, but its still far from an impossible task. For one, we have a good number of fast and decently strong Special Attackers in the metagame such as Dragapult and Tapu Koko that are more than capable of revenge killing it. Also, while rock is admittedly a pretty strong offensive type, it's still unable to hit certain defensive pokemon in the metagame such as Arghonaut and Ferrothorn, which depending on typing can either cripple us, force us out, or use us as a way to get free hazards on the field. Shifu can also ignore Diamond Storm boosts with Surging Strikes for what it's worth, which I found often came up a few times when building with/against and playing with/against Venomicon.
 

Ema Skye

The only Qwilfish fan on Smogon
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My favorites:

I think I echo a lot of the community by saying Thunder Cage is one of the most intriguing options. Trapping moves are powerful, but nearly every team will have some way of dealing with it through an immunity. This likely will mean that while CAP 31 has a defined role, its not a role that will change teambuilding to a significant degree. I think it's different enough from Spirit Shackle that it won't overlap with Pajantom much.

I know people are liking Diamond Storm, but my interest in an offensive/defensive 50/50 move to build around is still with Sacred Fire. A relatively drawbackless physical Fire move (ok, it has 95% acc) gives the Pokemon a huge niche as an attacker, given that it doesn't have to navigate Flare Blitz's recoil or Fire Lash's lack of initial power. I think this gives us a lot of design space to work around, while, again, still ensuring there is counterplay (Fire types can't be burned, Guts mons love burn). This is in contrast to Diamond Storm where there really isn't counterplay to the move's effect. Defensively, I don't think I need to explain much of why spreading burns is valuable.

At the risk of adding another Flying glue mon to OU, I love Oblivion Wing. This is a move that, again, has defensive and offensive applications, and it really just can do everything as a move. It gives an incredible amount of sustain and it has respectable damage output (base 80). I don't see it being enough to carry the user offensively, given its significant drop from Hurricane, and prevents it from eclipsing something like Torn-T as a breaker. We rely on Lando/Torn/Zap already as our defensive backbones for teams, and giving us another option here seems pretty healthy.

Last one I'm into it Jungle Healing. Status removal is pretty awesome, and letting the mon shrug off stuff like Pex Scalds gives it both offensive and defensive value. As a design tool, I think it pigeon-holes us in the least, and gives us a lot of ways to avoid making Zarude 2.
 

SHSP

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The discussion around the moves has been great so far, and I think its time we move a bit forward with it. A number of moves have driven a ton of discussion so far- Thunder Cage, Oblivion Wing, Jungle Healing, and the like- and have received a pretty general appeal and approval. Some others, however, have been either less debated and/or more divisive, and I'd like to hear more about them in general. Specifically, I'm looking for more discussion on the following:

Techno Blast: A very flashy and cool move, so far this has been very "love it or hate it." Either you think it'd lead to a very unique process and a strong CAP, or you think it's too knock weak and not particularly healthy. Should we be considering this?

Photon Geyser: The debate around Geyser seems to be if we can push it further than how Necrozma already does, with it being a favorite of some but uninteresting to others. Can we push this far enough for it to be of interest for a whole process, and different enough?

Spectral Thief: Clearly very powerful, I'm surprised to see this flying a bit under the radar compared to other moves early on. Is the effect too strong, or too unhealthy? Would this eat up too much of the power budget?

A few others that have gotten minor discussion I'm curious about, and wouldn't mind hearing more thoughts on: Wicked Blow, Sunsteel Strike, Psystrike, Shadow Force.


I'll also give my .02$ on some of the more popular moves so far:

Thunder Cage (and Thousand Waves): Cage is a very cool idea to me. Super common immunity, super cool effects, and can lead to a number of different ways through the process. I'd rather have it than Waves, though Waves is additionally another very cool move with a very similar idea (Ground immunes are everywhere).

Oblivion Wing: Not flashy, very effective, could have some interesting routes just because of how insanely good the move is.

Diamond Storm: I like Diamond Storm a lot so far. It's a really unique move just by being a consistent Rock type attack on its own, and the effect is a great bonus that would give us a lot of ways to operate later on.

Jungle Healing: Not my favorite, but far from my least favorite. Very, very curious to see how CAP would take this were it selected, as it alone can go probably the most directions of anything here- possibly too many?

Core Enforcer: This move is kinda really bad. We'd just be building with a strong-ish, reliable Dragon attack, and the secondary effect is effectively irrelevant. Not a fan.

Sacred Fire/Searing Shot: Very similar to Diamond Storm, although I'd argue Sacred's a good bit more powerful. Would absolutely create a solid process, though I am a bit afraid of how strong they can be.

Photon Geyser: One of my favorites, my answer to my own question is that I think we would be able to push it further and lean into what Necrozma doesn't- being an actively mixed attacker and being able to switch what stat the move pulls from. Super, super cool personally.

Spectral Thief: Another of my favorites, I think though the move is very strong it would still leave us with enough to work with later on. It's one of the moves that I'm most curious what route CAP would take with it, because I can see several different-to-slightly-different lines we can take.

Techno Blast: Not a fan. I don't think the Knock weakness is overblown- it's flatly everywhere, and often on a lot of what you'd want to hit with various Blasts. I'm also much more in line with what Rabia said in his earlier post: leaving strong, hard to identify coverage options in the past sounds a bit nicer to me than the alternative.

I also agree that moves like Plasma Fists and Thunderous Kick- moves that already have strong and viable abusers in the current meta- are for the most part not interesting, though there are exceptions (Wicked Blow, Photon as I've said).
 
To go through a few thoughts on some moves:

Techno Blast

I think this move does have a lot of potential for an interesting and unique process. Multi-Attack was problematic because it could be a 120 BP Hidden Power of any typing. Techno Blast is much more restricted, limited only to five typings including Normal, and it presents a lot of room for how we can make use of roughly 2 different versions of the move. It is not as unhealthy as Multi-Attack, but instead gives us an opprotunity to learn more about a controlled (balanced) version of Multi-Attack which still has plenty of counterplay as well as room for each of our stages.

Photon Geyser

This move also has a ton of potential that we can explore beyond Necrozma's use of it. Necrozma is cool, but anecdotally for me, most of my experiences with it has been as a Dragon Dancer, so I've mostly had experience with battling a speedy physical Necrozma, which has left a lot of the versatility that the move brings on the sidelines for a more relaible form of setup. I think this gives a ton of potential for exploring how we can use both physical and special versions of the same move on the same mon, and with some routes, we can even explore using both forms of the attack within the same battle.

Spectral Thief

This move is only problematic if we are giving it to an offensive Pokemon. One way that we can explore this move and learn from it is by giving it to a predominantly defensive Pokemon. I can see one route that we can explore is less of a reverse sweep, and more of a Clear Smog that does damage, scaling off of how greedy the opponent was. Once again, a move with a mechanic as unique as this one leaves a ton of room for exploration through different routes we can take beyond the generic hyper offense.

Thunder Cage

This is a very popular move, giving a new spin to an existing staple by using a different typing. The problem is... I feel that this is probably one of the less interesting routes that we can take. We have explored trapping moves offensively with Pajantom, and we have a ton of experience with Heatran using them on a defensive Pokemon. This move is a lot more damaging, capable of trapping and suffocating a Pokemon over a few turns thanks to its 1/8th chip, but I see it as "Stronger Magma Storm with a worse typing," and I'm not convinced that it will make for an interesting process. A lot of the questions raised are how can we make Thunder Cage a threat in a world of Volt Absorbs and Ground Types, or how can we make it stand out separately from Heatran's bulky Toxic/Magma Storm combo or Pajantom's Spirit Shackle, and I feel that narrows our scope and will derail a bit too much into focusing on ways to counter Ground and Electric types outside of Thunder Cage to maximize the value of Thunder Cage.

I don't have a lot to say on them, but I think that Diamond Storm and Secret Sword are rather interesting as well, the former being a unique defensive boosting move as well as a potent Rock attack (a type that usually leaves much to be desired offensively) while Secret Sword brings Psystrike to a much more powerful offensive type in Fighting, especially as it gives a lot more versatility to the whopping two moves that Special Fighting types use (3 if you include Vacuum Wave, which is used by... I don't think anything uses Vacuum Wave?)

EDIT:

Jungle Healing

This feels like its one of the most boring routes we can go. It is an interesting move to throw into a project, like, Chromera would appreciate the move. But as the core of the concept that we are designing the whole Pokemon around? I don't see it as anything other than an excuse to use a typing susceptible to Poison/Burn/Paralysis, and that's about where I see the discussion ending. The space afterwards is too broad, that a Pokemon built around Jungle Healing is like saying we are making a Pokemon built around using Recover or Thunder Wave. Its a solid move that is interesting in most processes but happens to be disabled. But it is a dreadfully boring core for the concept.
 
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