CAP 35 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 1

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ausma

ausma

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Before you vote, it's important that you read through each concept carefully, as well as look at our TL kenn's final post in the concept submissions thread with their justification for each that made the slate, since this concept will guide the discussion for the rest of the CAP Process. This is linked here.

This will be a Ranked Pairs vote (RP) (a form of voting where each candidate is ranked according to head to head matchups with each of its competitors in a directed acyclic graph), the details of which were discussed here.

This is a ranked vote: order does matter! You can upvote your favorites and downvote your least favorites. You may choose to rank as many or as few options as you like, but we encourage you to rank as many options as possible to ensure your preferences are taken into account fully.

Bold your votes and nothing else!

A typical vote might look like the following:

Most Preferred
Second Most Preferred
Third Most Preferred

Any comments that the voter has would go below the votes in non-bold text. Bold text is used to determine what the user's votes are, so none of the supplementary text should be in bold.
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Composing a proper ballot is easy. Enter BBCode Edit Mode (the A in the upper right corner). Copy/paste the options directly from the OP to your ballot as plain unbolded text. Delete and/or rearrange the options to suit your preference and the poll type. Bold your vote text using bold tags or re-enter rich text mode, highlight your vote and click B. Spelling or formatting errors may spoil your ballot, so be careful!

Please post only your votes in this thread. You are allowed to say whatever you like in relation to your vote at the bottom of your post, but please do not look to begin a discussion. Keep those comments to the PS! CAP chatroom or the CAP Discord channel.

Asking for votes for your submission or for the submissions of others is not allowed. Anyone found to have done so risks punishment at the moderation team's discretion. If you find that someone has broken this rule, please contact the CAP moderation team with your evidence and no one else. Mini-moderation of this rule is also considered a serious offense and can be punished.

IMPORTANT: When voting, use only the exact name of the concept submissions as listed below! The concept submissions are quoted below in order of submission:

By Your Powers Combined
Name - By Your Powers Combined

Description - This Pokemon can viably inhabit two distinct roles/niches in the metagame.

Justification - CAP Pokemon have historically been very concise in their competitive design; they are meant to do one thing and do it well. This is in part due to the concept system; if a CAP has a concept, its role has already been partly determined. The past few CAPs, (Chuggalong, Cresceidon) have been very set in their one role. However, many Pokemon inhabit multiple roles and do so well. Calm Mind vs. Stealth Rock Clefable, Choice Scarf vs. Defensive Gholdengo, and even offensive vs. defensive Zapdos come to mind as examples of Pokemon that, in one metagame, did multiple things.

Questions To Be Answered -
  • The definition of "role" is not a clear-cut thing. As seen when comparing Clefable to Zapdos, role can be shown by both move selection or EV investment. What are ways we can give CAP 35 the ability to inhabit multiple roles?
  • Some Pokemon run varying sets that could be distilled down to a single role. An example of this is Dragapult, where even though its Choice item and support sets vary in how they play, they both do boil down to "fast special attacker." Are Pokemon like Dragapult acceptable examples of inhabiting multiple roles in the same metagame?
  • A tricky part to balancing Pokemon is variability. In the past, CAP has often nerfed variability off of its Pokemon, citing unpredictability as uncompetitive. How will CAP 35 manage its inevitable set variability in its power budget?
  • Are there any common traits/combinations that enable Pokemon to inhabit multiple roles in the same metagame?
  • Can a Pokemon inhabit two offensive roles at the same time? What about defensive?
  • Are there any combination of roles that do not mesh well together and should be avoided? Why?
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Keep It A Stack
Name - Keep it a Stack

Description - This is a Pokemon whose gameplan revolves around stacking multipliers.

Justification - Multiplier stacking means combining stat modifiers multiplicatively, and it's notable because it's more effective than simple stat boosts, which combine additively. Swords Dance gives a multiplier of 1.5 + 1.5 = 2, but if you combine one stat boost with a separate 1.5 multiplier, the total multiplier is 2.25. The difference between additive and multiplicative boosts increases exponentially with each additional boost.

Gen 9 leans into this hard. You have things like Gouging Fire in sun stacking STAB+tera, the sun boost, and the choice band boost for a total multiplier of 2 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 4.5. This usually uses a Protosynthesis speed boost, but if you want to really make sure everything dies, you can add in a Protosynthesis attack boost for a total multiplier of 4.5 * 1.3 = 5.85. Just stupid damage. Another example of this is Steely Spirit Perrserker, with STAB, tera and Steely Spirit granting a multiplier of 3 on Steel moves, further augmented by Band or SD. Even Kingambit is an excellent example of how adding a single relatively small multiplier can make a massive difference in your damage output when combined with other boosts. Sniper Kingdra is perhaps the most straightforward example there is, stacking multipliers for a 2.25* boost.

On the flip side, we have defensive multiplier stacking. One old gen example of this is Assault Vest Tyranitar. The rock-type Sandstorm SpDef boost combines with the Assault Vest for a total multiplier of 2.25. Mon just eats Focus Blasts for breakfast. For other examples, you can look at things like Quiver Dance Ice Scales Frosmoth (3* SpDef multiplier after one Quiver Dance), Aurora Veil Alolan Ninetales (Ice-type snow defense boost stacks with veil for an effective defense multiplier of 3) or Bulk Up Grass Pelt Gogoat in terrain (not a real set, the mon is ass but it's very funny conceptually). Finally, there is speed multiplier stacking. Stat-based speed boosts can combine multiplicatively with various means of boosting speed independent of stat stages, and this can lead to hilarious speed modifiers. Protosynthesis Rapid Spin Great Tusk (2.25 multiplier) technically utilizes this, but outspeeding Regieleki by 127 points is probably overkill.

So this concept is not at all unfamiliar in gen 9, but it has a ton of unexplored and extremely interesting manifestations (many using underutilized abilities or mechanics that are new this gen, such as the snow boost!). This concept is so much broader than it might initially appear. Combining numbers like this can very quickly turn a mediocre package into a a threat to be respected, or a horrifically slow Pokemon into a blindingly fast one, and it's cool as hell.

Questions To Be Answered -
  • Is this an ability first concept? A lot of these modifiers are ability-based, and it could be beneficial to use the ability to determine our direction.
  • Will we find in exploring this concept that when combined with other multipliers, single stage boosts are preferable to further boosts because of diminishing returns with additive multipliers?
  • Are offensive approaches dangerous here? Using the example of Gouging Fire, is stacking that many multipliers too volatile to guarantee a balanced product?
  • Similarly, if we take an offensive approach, do we have to specifically avoid the weather boost? Are Fire and Water off limits as offensive typings?
  • Using the example of AV Tyranitar, can defensive multiplier stacking allow a bad defensive typing to shine? How about a mediocre stat spread?
  • How do we keep a defensive multiplier stacking pokemon out of the trap of passivity?
  • Is it possible to achieve multiple of these routes at once? Can a pokemon stack offensive multipliers and defensive multipliers? Or combine one of these with speed multiplier stacking?
  • Is this type of Pokemon inherently less consistent than one that just has high raw stats? Is there a way to make it more consistent?
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Invasive Species
Name - Invasive Species

Description - This Pokémon uses a move or ability that is commonly associated with certain team archetypes outside of said archetype.

Justification - As you likely know, teams are commonly categorized into archetypes depending on how they plan to win their games (Stall, Balance, Offense, Bulky Offense, etc.) With these archetypes are trends within them, common types of moves and abilities seen in their Pokémon that are used to play into the team’s win condition. In the current generation, the differences between archetypes are more stark than they’ve ever been before, resulting in the aforementioned trends being pushed to their extremes. This concept aims to expand upon the usage of these traits by exploring how they can be utilized outside of their usual archetypes.

Questions To Be Answered -
  • How do we ensure that this CAP isn’t too proficient at using the chosen move/ability in an unintended archetype?
  • Which archetype will we take our move/ability from? Where do we want this CAP to be used?
  • How do we separate moves/abilities that only don’t see use on other archetypes due to lack of distribution from our desired options?
  • If specifically an offensive-leaning move is chosen as our route, would setup moves be entirely out of the question?
  • Given that Balance teams could be considered directly in the middle of the spectrum between offense and fat, how do we ensure that this CAP isn’t used on, or at least not primarily used on balance over its intended archetype?
  • Do we necessarily have to try to confine our CAP to one archetype? Would it be fine to let it exist in any archetype aside from the one from which our move/ability is chosen from?
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Fixed Income Pension
Name - Fixed Income Pension

Description - At least one move on this Pokemon's moveset does damage that is independent of its Attack, Defense, and Special Attack stats.

Justification - We've seen a few of these Pokemon around as of late. Ting Lu, Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele, Yveltal, and Kangaskhan-Mega all use moves that deal very significant damage to the opponent based on either the opponent's HP, the opponent's attack stat, or their own level. These moves are all very interesting as they can bypass resistances, high defense stats, or in some cases low offensive stats to still chunk opponents for a significant amount. I also suspect that this kind of concept is going to be well suited to the current gen as the amount of recovery going around is at an all-time minimum.

Questions To Be Answered -
  • These moves all ignore your own attack stat; what does this say about the stat distributions a user of these moves may want.
  • Some of these moves ignore the opponent's defense and type matchups, how does this affect your own need for coverage?
  • What archetypes do direct damage (or well non-attack based) attacking moves fit best on; pivots, stallbreakers, walls, wallbreakers?
  • Which direct damage moves are best for us?
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Adopt-a-Signature
Name - Adopt-a-Signature

Description - This Pokemon utilizes a signature move, ability, or both to its greatest effect, where the original user of the move/ability could not.

Justification - Plenty of Pokemon introduced in modern gens come with their own signature moves and/or abilities. Sometimes these unique assets get completely ignored by their owners in favor of better options, see Espathra, while others simply don't have the stats or movepool to synergize with their signature assets, see Toxapex's Merciless or Grapploct's Octolock. The goal of this Pokemon would be squeezing as much potential out of a signature move or ability where the original mon failed, and develop a niche in the CAP metagame along the way.

Questions To Be Answered -
  • Which signature moves are worth building around, and which could potentially set this Pokemon up for failure?
  • Should all signature moves be considered, or only those that aren't already showcased by their original owners to full effect? (Torch Song, Rage Fist, Glaive Rush may not be as interesting.)
  • Should revitalizing a signature ability be a goal for this Pokemon, or should all tools be devoted to synergizing with its move of choice?
  • Should some signature moves/abilities be off the table, either for not making sense flavor-wise (Malignant Chain) or being creatively limiting on the Pokemon's visual design (Spicy Extract, Fillet Away)?
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Under Siege
Name - Under Siege

Description - This CAP utilizes bulk and resource depletion to, itself, become a win condition.

Justification - When one thinks of a win condition or a sweeper, it's common for people to turn to the run of the mill offense. While this has shown to be tried and true, many offensively-inclined CAP processes have centered around optimizing sweeping routes through using raw might and powerful setup. However, a win condition by nature is not exactly dictated by offense; just as much as it means sweeping, it can also mean winning the war of attrition, and sticking around long enough to secure the game. This concept explores just how far the concept of a win condition can lean in the opposite direction, where defensive prowess and resource depletion become the key to victory as an indirect means of offense.

Questions To Be Answered -
  • What is the definition of a "win condition" in the context of Pokemon? In general, what makes a Pokemon a "win condition"?
  • What qualities are necessary in making a win condition consistently applicable? How much of a role does defense play in poising a winning position, and leveraging a positive game state into something more commanding?
  • At what point does positioning a Pokemon for a secure win become committal? Are win conditions best recognized as tools to be used throughout the game, or outright sweeping? Alternatively, can these qualities work in tandem?
  • What forms of resource depletion are most relevant in creating a winning situation? Are these more matchup oriented, or constant factors?
  • Furthermore, do these mechanisms best excel at certain stages of the game? Or, are they able to always be a factor, even in the late game?
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Uphill Battle
Name - Uphill Battle

Description - This Pokémon succeeds in its role despite a severe contradiction in one of its key components (type, ability, stats, or moves) which would typically hold its role back.

Justification - CAP has a general tendency to shy away from contradictions in its designs; why undermine a concept/role by picking something that actively seems detrimental for it? While this impulse is understandable, it also leaves a great deal of design space unexplored. This CAP shall explore how a Pokémon can succeed despite its apparent contradictions by building around them to fill a cohesive niche in the metagame.

Questions To Be Answered -
  • Are certain roles more capable of working with an individual Pokémon’s counterproductive elements than others? For example, would it be easier to build a viable sweeper with a bad offensive typing than a viable wall with a bad defensive typing?
  • For each component of a Pokémon’s kit, what makes it “counterproductive”? Do the components have different thresholds depending on what the role is, and if so, how?
  • Are certain contradictions in a Pokémon’s kit more easily managed by the rest of its kit than others? For example, is a counterproductive typing easier to work with than counterproductive stats?
  • How “counterproductive” can the chosen aspect of this Pokémon’s kit be for its role to prevent it from being unsalvageable while still remaining on-concept?
  • With one aspect of the Pokémon working against its role, how strong should the other elements be to compensate without making this aspect trivial to how the Pokémon plays?
  • How can the Pokémon be designed such that it thrives in the metagame beyond acting as a check against current powerhouses, as certain Pokémon of this nature have previously done?
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Once again, your options are:

By Your Powers Combined
Keep It A Stack
Invasive Species
Fixed Income Pension
Adopt-a-Signature
Under Siege
Uphill Battle

Please ensure your ballot uses the concept names listed above in bold and not the usernames of the submitters. This vote will end in 24 hours, so please do not feel rushed, and instead ensure you make an informed decision!

This poll will be open for 24 hours.
 
By Your Powers Combined
Invasive Species
Uphill Battle
Adopt-a-Signature
Fixed Income Pension
Under Siege
Keep It A Stack
 
By Your Powers Combined
Uphill Battle
Under Siege
Invasive Species
Fixed Income Pension
Keep It A Stack
Adopt-a-Signature


 
By Your Powers Combined
Fixed Income Pension
Under Siege
Adopt-a-Signature
Invasive Species
Uphill Battle
Keep It A Stack
 
Uphill Battle
Keep It A Stack
Under Siege
Fixed Income Pension
Adopt-a-Signature
By Your Powers Combined
Invasive Species
 
Last edited:
Keep It A Stack
By Your Powers Combined
Uphill Battle
Adopt-a-Signature
Under Siege
Invasive Species
Fixed Income Pension
 
Uphill Battle
Fixed Income Pension
Adopt-a-Signature
Under Siege
Invasive Species
Keep It A Stack
 
Invasive Species
Uphill Battle
Fixed Income Pension
Under Siege
Adopt-a-Signature
Keep It A Stack
As I said elsewhere, I'm super excited for this slate. Congratulations to everyone who made it!

(and for those who didn't, I feel for y'all, and I wish you luck in the future)
 
Adopt-a-Signature
Under Siege
By Your Powers Combined
Keep It A Stack
Invasive Species
Fixed Income Pension
Uphill Battle
 
Fixed Income Pension
Invasive Species
Under Siege
Keep It A Stack
By Your Powers Combined
Adopt-a-Signature
Uphill Battle
 
Uphill Battle
By Your Powers Combined
Invasive Species
Fixed Income Pension
Under Siege
Adopt-a-Signature
Keep It A Stack
 
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