CAP 36 - Concept Submissions

[Pyxiiz]

WIP

Name- Curse Words

Description- A pokemon which can take advantage of both utilities of the move Curse.

Justification- Most volatile status effects are hard to come by in good ways. Curse is one of these, as the activation conditions are so hard to achieve naturally. This pokemon would use a Relic Song type move to switch between types to get the full value out of the one move Curse.

Questions To Be Answered-

• What causes conditions like Curse(the status) to be underutilized?
  • What are some potential fixes?
  • How do we make the reward outweigh the risk?
• Because of the dual nature of Curse(the move), could this be a viable use case for multiple team compositions?
• How do you tell which version of Curse is the most effective in a given situation?
• Why use Curse(the status) when other DoT effects like Toxic can do the same job?
• When does the trade off of Curse become beneficial for the user?
• Who are already existing good users of this move and why are they good for it?

Explanation- Curse is one of the most dynamic moves in the game, as it is literally two moves in one. The problem is that a single pokemon can only ever take advantage of one of these at a time unless they terastalize, which is hardly ever worth it. However, if you were to be able to swap types in battle, you could take advantage of all of what this move has to offer. Of course, for this to work, one of these switchable types would have to be Ghost. The others can be anything though, just something other than Ghost.

When I was looking at mons that worked well with the move Curse, one common theme was present: none of them were Ghost types(except for the occasional Pecharunt). This is probably because the trade off of the Ghost type Curse is so high that no Ghost type likes to run it. Also, like other volatile statuses, it can be cured upon switching out. I thought about being able to solve either of these by giving it an ability like Shadow Tag or Arena Trap to maximize the reward, or an ability like Regenerator to minimize the risk.

The other side of the coin however is the non-Ghost version of Curse, which is by far more popular. Common users like Dondozo or Calyrex-Ice in Ubers are good examples because they enjoy the stat boosts while being slow and bulky attackers who can set up, heal, and then sweep a team.

Being able to switch gears between the slow setup version and the "put you on a timer" version of Curse could see viability in numerous situations both for and against many playstyles, namely stall teams.

I decided to switch gears a little bit for my concept. I still wanted to be able to actualize an underutilized volatile status, but realized that the complexity required for a mon centered around infatuation would not really be plausible in this kind of setting. I decided on Curse because it would overall result in a much more dynamic pokemon.

 

[viol and bass]

WIP

Name - Damned if you Do

Description - This Pokemon forces opponents to make sacrifices, expend resources, or enter disadvantageous game states in order to make progress against it.

Justification-

This is a Pokemon that always has an ace up its sleeve. It may wound an opponent while going down, or pose such an immediate threat that your opponent's team is staggered by it, or it may force opponents to slowly expend their resources over the course of the game, enabling a teammate to clean up later.

Pokemon exist which fulfill this to varying degrees. I think Roaring Moon is a decent embodiment of this concept, since it's often forcing a defensive tera, knocking boots, forcing less than optimal positioning by the opponent just to take it out, or just absolutely chunking things, etc. Or imagine being forced out and staring down an Enamorus behind a sub that hasn't burned tera yet. There are many different ways to explore this. What's notable for this framework is that the form change itself gives us really interesting ways to fulfill the concept in terms of positioning.

To be clear about this, this Pokemon will not generally turn losing situations into winning situations, since that becomes almost impossible to balance. It's just able to capitalize on good positioning to put your opponent in a bind, force concessions, or force your opponent to have to think twice about actions that would otherwise be free.

This process will allow us to take a deeper look at the complex decision making process when you click a move or make a switch. Every stage can play into the concept in concrete ways like contact punishing or a high speed stat forcing suboptimal positioning, or more abstract ways like the threat level we exhibit, the interplay between moves, or the ways we can allow teammates to capitalize on opponents who have overstepped.

Questions To Be Answered -

• Since sacrifice, risk, and reward are such a fundamental part of almost every interaction, how can we allow ourselves to be in the driver’s seat in these exchanges?
• In-battle sacrifices as I've defined them above are often mutual to some degree between you and your opponent– there is loss on both sides. If your full-health Ferrothorn dies to Close Combat but gets Iron Barbs damage off, that's rarely a worthwhile trade. What constitutes a successful sacrifice on your part? Is having more control than your opponent enough to stack the odds in your favor?
• How can we build this form change to be able to position ourselves favorably in most scenarios? Could a more defensive form and a more offensive form, running the same moveset, fulfill this concept in different ways?
• How can we take advantage of our own weaknesses, or allow our teammates to take advantage of potential counterplay?
• How can you take advantage of your own Pokemon taking damage or even fainting? Can we design a Pokemon where this is often a beneficial trade, even outside of roles like suicide lead?
• Can a Pokemon that forces sacrifice or risk from its opponent be low-risk itself? What does that look like?
• Some concrete ways of achieving this concept are inherently reactive rather than proactive. How can we achieve consistency while taking these routes?
• If we choose a team support-oriented route centered on baiting in opponents, can we be useful throughout a match regardless of a successful bait?

Explanation -

These "between a rock and a hard place" situations are very common in every match. Some examples: Moltres loves its boots, but if you knock them off you're risking a burn. Clicking Close Combat into a Rocky Helmet user forces you to sacrifice health. Checking a Knock Off user might mean you lose your boots. Hitting Bellibolt or Galarian Moltres risks powering it up. Ursaluna might force you to sack a mon to bring in a revenge killer safely. Dragapult might force in scarfers or Booster Energy Pokemon, locking the opponent into a move its teammates can take advantage of or using up their Booster Energy early. Roaring Moon might force a defensive tera in order to take it out. Every single time you send in a mon or click a move, there are potential downsides which you must factor into your decision making. Actions have consequences, even when they're the right choice.

This concept is centered around being in the driver’s seat in as many of these interactions as possible. This Pokemon will capitalize on good positioning, and will force the opponent to make risk/reward calculations frequently.

To illustrate a build that fulfills this concept, imagine a threatening offensive Substitute user (something like Sub Enamorus), where the immediate threat level can force a lot of game states in which you have more control and less risk than the opponent, and they may have to make sacrifices to get past you.

The concept also applies more generally to many forms of contact punishing or general move punishing, on-death effects, field effect setting where dying might be beneficial, conditional moves where the odds may be tilted in your favor, various aspects of the hazard game… there are a lot of cool applications.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

WIP

Name - Outta There

Description - This Pokemon utilizes a phazing move effectively in both formes.

Justification - This would be an Actualization concept. Phazing is a concept that has been fairly underdeveloped in my opinion - most of the time in competitive Pokemon, manual pivoting or pivoting moves such as U-turn and Volt Switch reign supreme as the only ways to remove a Pokemon from the field. The biggest issue with phazing is that it has, historically, been restricted to just defensive Pokemon - for example, in SV CAP, the most prominent phazers are Arghonaut and Ting-Lu, both explicitly defensive Pokemon that happen to have access to anti-setup tools. This concept seeks to explore how phasing can factor into both offensive and defensive capabilities.

Questions to be Answered -

• How does phazing factor into a Pokemon's defensive capabilities?
  • How does phazing play into the stacking of residual chip damage that primarily defensive teams tend to use to force progress?
  • How does phazing influence the gamestate by pulling in an advantageous or disadvantageous matchup for the user?
  • Does phazing carry an inherent risk for a defensive Pokemon? If so, how do we offset that risk?
• How does phazing factor into a Pokemon's offensive capabilities?
  • How does an offensive team benefit from shuffling defensive foes around?
    • If accruing hazard damage is the main benefit, how can we offset the prevalence of Heavy-Duty Boots to allow this effect to shine?
    • If shuffling out a counter is the main benefit, how can we ensure that the risk/reward of a phazing move is tailored?
  • What is the minimal level of staying power required to effectively utilize a phazing move?
    • What is the best way of going about giving this CAP that minimal level of staying power?
• Is it fundamentally worth it to phaze opponents constantly?

Explanation - WIP

 

[Guingil]

Final Submission

Name - I Can Do This All Day

Description - This CAP is best played when it can stay in for longer and uses its forme change as a pseudo-switch to enable itself to do so.

Justification - This CAP is an Actualization concept that explores how a Pokémon can be most effective when it can stay in without switching out. The design space is huge for how staying in for extra turns can benefit a Pokemon, such as: more passive healing or damage, to gain or keep stat boosts, PP stall, among others. Despite a few examples, I believe this concept is underexplored because of how switch-heavy the meta is, and this CAP will be a valuable addition to our understanding of the benefits of staying in.

The Meloetta-style forme change is an integral aspect of this CAP's longevity. It will be used as a pseudo-switch that allows the CAP to dynamically adjust its typing and stats to become a better matchup against the counters of one forme, which might be brought in to deal with it, while retaining all the benefits of staying in. The success of the two formes synergistically working off each other's attributes to be a stubborn stay in-er depends entirely on smart play and predicting opponent responses, adding a layer of skill to using the CAP. This dynamic play is in stark contrast to how this concept has been actualized in the past, with Pokemon that are more matchup-independent and can stay in against any opposition.

This concept also justifies the use of some underpowered moves (such as the 75 BP move for this CAP) or moves that only work for staying in (such as Protect or Substitute), which are otherwise not part of most Pokemon movesets. Thus, I believe this concept is rich in its capacity for us to learn more about what goes into switching or staying in, uniquely leveraging CAP36's framework to do so.


Questions To Be Answered -

• What benefits justify a Pokemon staying on for extended periods of time over the more conventional tactic of switching when convenient?
  • How exactly does the Pokemon thrive by staying in: does it have aspects that work better with time, or does it simply not want to switch out?
  • What qualities would help the CAP not become a sitting duck against typical progress-making or crippling attempts against it as it stays on the field, like status moves, Knock Off, Taunt/Encore?
• Which among defensive, offensive and utility roles can be enhanced best by staying in? Can the CAP run different roles with different sets?
• How do the two formes deal with each other's checks and counters through a change of typing and stats?
  • How can we design the two formes so that there is minimal overlap between their counters?
  • Given that the CAP will still have the same moves and thus an intended playstyle for one set, is it unavoidable that we would still have some blanket counters to it?
• How can this Pokemon, by strategically switching its matchups, itself force switches on the opponents' side? Is this interaction integral to its play?
• What moves can become viable because of the CAP's intention or capacity to stay in that would otherwise not be used very often?
• Compared to Pokemon that can stay in regardless of matchups, how does the skill-cap of making switches at the right time affect the CAP's allowed power level?
  • Can we afford to give each forme more exploitable weaknesses in each forme if the other forme addresses these?
  • Can we give the CAP a greater reward for staying in because it is not guaranteed?
• Does the fact that this Pokemon stays in for extended periods affect team building with it?
• Because the CAP's main playstyle is staying in, how exactly should it function suboptimally when it has to switch out often?

Explanation -

Switching is one of the most important aspects of decision-making in battle, allowing you (at the most fundamental level) to get out of a bad matchup into a good one. However, there are benefits of keeping a Pokémon in battle for extended periods that are I believe underexplored due to the metagame’s emphasis on switching. These can be broadly divided into Pokemon that excel at staying in, or mons that do not want to be switched out.

Mons that excel at staying in prevent opponents from making progress against them, while themselves making consistent progress. In SV OU, Gliscor can maximize the healing from its Poison Heal as well as the damage from Toxic by staying in and using Protect, while using Knock Off to remove opponent items. Garganacl can heal itself up while being immune to all status, while consistently dealing damage with Salt Cure (also using Protect to get an extra turn). Ting-Lu has ridiculous bulk, sets hazards, and resets opponents' progress against it with Rest. What is common among these Pokemon is resistance to damage, status or disrupting moves (like Knock Off). Another way of achieving this is by using Substitute, which prevents disrupting effects altogether. This strategy is exemplified in the Protect + Substitute + Pressure set on Kyurem, which PP stalls opponents while doling out damage with the great offensive combination of Ground and Ice moves. Harvest + Substitute is an annoying strategy on RandBats based on the same philosophy. All of these sets function by staying on for longer durations so that they get the most juice out of their unique weapons.

Mons that do not want to switch out easily either want to obtain stat boosts on a turn (e.g., Speed Boost Blaziken, Guts Ursaluna, Contrary Serperior) and/or retain them (e.g., Cosmic Power + Stored Power, one-time activation items or abilities, or cascading effects like Moxie or Beast Boost). The same strategy of using Protect or Substitute is also seen with some of these Pokemon, while others carefully bide their time before the perfect time to bring them in is seen.

However, these mons' strengths are very broad or matchup-independent. They depend on excellent typing, ability or Terastallization to make them have very few bad matchups (Gliscor, Tera Fairy Garganacl), ridiculous bulk (Ting-Lu), or the snowballing of their boosts either leads to a win or the Pokemon faints trying. This CAP aims to make something that is not as independent of matchups as these examples but involves skill in strategically switching up matchups through its forme change so that it can stay in. This means that each forme can have weaknesses, but these are mutually exclusive and cannot be taken advantage of by the same mon. This is somewhat "underpowered" compared to mons with no weaknesses and involves more risk, this also allows us to reward better play compared to the more autopilot way of playing the current examples. This could also open up the floor to make this CAP explore certain options that would be overpowered on a Pokemon with no matchup weaknesses.

The fact that opponents are forced to adjust to the CAP's formes by considering switching is also an excellent way to justify the 75 BP move, whose damage becomes more of a bonus, allowing mind games on whether to switch out against the mon. Thus, compared to what is currently available, the CAP community would get to apply its creativity to design a Pokemon that has a high skill... cap (*ba dum tss*), requires predictions by the user for optimal play, and whose ability to stay in is not a given, like current mons, but something that the user has to earn.

Spoiler

Stats of some mons that fit the concept use moves outlined in the explanation:

Most common users of Protect that are not Wish-passers, based on Feb OU Stats > 1825 (mons fitting the concept bolded):

Pokemon Name	% of Sets with Protect (approximated to the nearest number)
Gliscor	95
Kyurem	13
Garganacl	64
Blaziken	95
Heatran	7
Bronzong	99
Ursaluna	19

Most common users of Substitute, based on Feb OU Stats > 1825 (mons fitting the concept bolded):

Pokemon Name	% of Sets with Substitute (approximated to the nearest number)
Kyurem	26
Primarina	15
Walking Wake	6
Enamorus	8
Serperior	76
Skeledirge	14
Hydreigon	61

Thanks to viol and bass, AzothBend, Spammernoob, Antsaya, twoziel, and many others for their input on Discord (sorry if I haven't named you here, there are so many people who have helped me with this).

 

[sun_dew]

WIP

Name - One at a Time, Please

Description - This Pokémon switches between two offensively synergistic primary types, but is forced to use Revelation Dance to access them.

Justification - Overall, there are extremely few instances of Pokémon having some aspect of their moveset change mid-battle, the most prominent being the newly (well, relatively newly) introduced Tera Blast, allowing Pokémon access to a powerful coverage option and granting them STAB of that type simultaneously at the cost of expending your Tera. This concept aims to do something similar, but instead of expending Tera to access new STAB coverage, the cost is losing access to your initial coverage. So, you can have perfect coverage- but only if you are in the right form at the right time. This serves as both somewhat of a limiting factor (restricting our sweeping/breaking/cleaning power) and a moveslot-saving factor (compressing two STABs into one moveslot) at once, incentivizing strategically switching between forms to suit the situation.

Questions to be Answered -

• What types synergize well in this context?
  • Should "perfect" neutral coverage between the types be mandatory?
• How big of a tradeoff is using defensively poor types like Ice or Rock to gain better coverage?
• Does having two offensively oriented forms limit us? If so, in what ways?
• What is the opportunity cost of spending a turn switching forms in order to access coverage?
  • How can we balance this cost?
• What would "force" use of Revelation Dance over other STAB?
  • Is it necessary to exclude all viable moves of the primary typing? What about tech options like Freeze-Dry and Volt Switch?

Explanation - morpekoetta (WIP)

 

[SHSP]

Hey everyone! Amazing work so far with the concepts, I'm here to give a little feedback from myself and the TLT on what's been submitted so far. As a heads up, the original OP for this stage referenced the since-removed archetype, actualization and target concept styles- we've updated it and they're no longer mandatory. Apologies for that!

so this isn't a mile long

Defensive Transformation- This one is really solid from the jump. A defensive form change like this concept gives us direction for the process without being overbearing on it, and has really interesting questions for the process to ask. It fits the mechanics of Meloetta forms incredibly well and would make for a really cool process overall.

Aint No Mountain High Enough, Aint No Valley Low Enough- I really like how the concept sounds just off the description and I'm eager to see how you finish it! I do want to say that it definitely sounds like a concept that requires a lot of finesse- potentially being able to swap out of our low stats in the right situations could be incredibly strong.

Pro Gamer- I think this concept fits Meloetta forms quite well- as you mention, the actual form changing mechanics make it very rewarding for skilled players. My question is if this is enough of a concept to get us through a process. It doesn't offer much in the sense of direction for any given stage, and we'd have to find a seemingly pretty narrow path to make a mon that is rewarded far more for good positioning and play than the average.

Recoil and Rebound- This seems pretty tough on moveslots for us, seeing as three would be devoted to our Relic Song equivalent, a recoil move, and then a healing move. Past that, I think its an interesting concept in nature, but the space for these to be successful in tandem seems small. Perhaps focusing on one or the other- recoil or health stealing- would be better for the process?

The Chosen One- I think there's something very interesting cooking here, but I'd really like to see examples of what moves you have in mind- your justification confuses me a bit (are we running CC or Clanging types moves? Is that a heavy enough drawback?).

Mixed and Matched- This reminds me a lot of, well, Meloetta herself. Mixed attackers are certainly having a better showing in this gen compared to some of the other fairy gens, which makes me intrigued by this. We'd certainly have a lot to go off of if we went down this route with how Meloetta pretty clearly failed at doing this, but retracing Meloetta's steps to a degree worries me.

Lost and Found- I'm waiting on more of your description of this to see how it plays out, but it sounds interesting. Is there more than just Burn Up? I genuinely can't remember off the top of my head.

Two Turn Tony- This concept is illegal under the restrictions on our Relic Song.

Type Revenge- Definitely reminiscent of past CAP concepts, such as Mollux and Stratagem, where the weaknesses of a type were attempted to be circumvented or otherwise overcame. Turning the weaknesses of typings into strengths sounds interesting, although quite difficult, and interacts oddly with the form change's secondary type switch. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "trapping," as well.

Help Yourself- This feels like it fits really, really well with Meloetta forms. A defensive mon with defensive utility setting up for its own late-game cleaning success is a really creative way of approaching the form change, and I think it leads to some really interesting questions for each stage of the process. The biggest question I have is moveslots wise, as you make a focus in your description- sharing slots between the two forms does not give us a ton of room to fit everything to be successful as a cleaner and/or a defensive mon in one set.

All Field Effect Vehicle- My biggest immediate concern is that most of these are just not very good right now. Sun is relevant, but certainly less so now than in past SV metagames, snow exists as a facilitator for Veil and Kyurem, and Sand and Rain are rare at best. Terrain wise, Rilla has tapered off significantly, as has the Psychic Terrain offenses, and the other two lack effective setters in this gen (I'm not counting Weezing-G as something that wants to run Misty Surge). Emphasizing that CAP 36 would have to be an abuser of both limits us a lot here before even considering how difficult that currently is to abuse these field effects.

I Am Not Left Handed- I don't entirely see the appeal in answering the same archetype twice, just in two different ways- nor do I know how possible it is when the two forms share the same moves. The secondary form also seems to start at a disadvantage here- if I need to deal with some archetype, and one of these options demands I not only get it on the field but also spend a turn switching my form, I feel as though the non-form change, immediate answer to the same exact archetype is far more appealing.

Mind Games- Playing around changing or not changing form is a really interesting concept here, though I do worry about Relic's relative weakness in punishing those incorrect predictions. I'm not sure you should limit this idea to "building a better Meloetta," either- there's more to explore here for sure.

Mr Negative- This concept is illegal under the restrictions on Meloetta Forms' type changing mechanics.

Prudent Planning- The only legal way that this would play out is just giving our Relic variant an immunity, which does not strike me as super interesting. I feel like if we have so many restrictions placed on actually using our Relic Song, we very well may not actually decide to make use of it at all.

Stick With Me- Another concept that works very well with our form change mechanics. There's a lot of ways to make a glue mon, and being able to change forms more or less at will gives us a unique way of becoming one of those glue mons. I wouldn't say that glue mons don't excel in a role, though- we've seen plenty of iterations of extremely effective glue mons such as Lando that often become so effective as glue mons because they excel in multiple places.

Shieldbreaker- This concept's really well thought out and written, and I think really plays into the potential strengths of our form change. I don't love that it focuses a ton on the current metagame- I think it hedges a little close to being a "fix the meta" type concept overall- and I think some of the outcomes like a Kyurem-type mon are not amazingly healthy, but its a very strong concept regardless.

Boosted Brute- These sorts of moves are really cool, and I'd be really interested to see how a concept centered around them plays out. I don't totally see how this works with our form change, though, and I'd love to see more examples of what works for this past the HP based and terrain boosted type moves.

Slow Down, Please- My biggest question is if this effect is powerful enough. Dropping speed itself is really, really effective, but our odds will be just ten percent- is that enough to build around? It definitely seems like playing around reducing speed would make for a really interesting end product, though.

Do You Love the Change in Me?- Is there more to this concept than "spam Relic Song" a bunch? I think emphasizing switching back and forth between forms is great, but I'm not sold on this as-is just because it ends up reading like "we just click Relic Song."

Better Infatuation User- Firstly, I'm not sure if our Relic Song version having a ten percent chance to infatuate is a "strong source of infatuation," as otherwise we're dealing with just Attract- we won't be making anything more custom than that. This whole concept has a lot of custom elements we're not really going to have access to, and in the end I'm not sold on infatuation being all that interesting or healthy to build or play with.

Damned if You Do- This reminds me a lot of Pro Gamer from earlier in the thread, as I think they play out in similar ways. I worry a bit about the effects of how this is written- a mon that's almost always in the drivers seat and ahead on the risk/reward interactions seems like it can be a bit unhealthily strong. There's a lot that's interesting here, though- focusing on positioning so heavily with our form change elements is really cool. Similarly to Pro Gamer, though, I do wonder how well this guides the process.

Outta There- This has been a great gen for phazing overall, with stuff like Roar Zama and Ting Lu joining CAP classic Arghonaut in shuffling stuff out. Offensive phasing is definitely the most interesting space to explore here. Not entirely sure how we build around this, though, individually- especially considering we're building two forms around the same idea and wanting to use both.

I Can Do This All Day- Withholding judgement on this until its written out, but "stay in as much as possible and force switches as much as possible" sounds like we're just making something really strong and well rounded. Not sure how much is there past that, but I'm interested to see what you had in mind.

One at a Time, Please- I have to check how our form change would work, typing wise, to see our interaction with Revelation Dance. This feels like it borders on being a second framework, honestly, but I agree that the form change mechanics could be really interesting with gaining and losing not just STAB, but the ability to click that typing of move at all.

 

[Zatqer]

Final Submission

Name - Multipurpose Moves

Description - This Pokemon can use certain moves both defensively and offensively depending on its form.

Justification - One of the main factors why Meloetta-Pirouette is almost never used is that its moveset is shared between its forms. With one moveslot gone to our form changer, we're left with 3 moves, which need to be useful for both forms. This concept aims to circumvent this by using moves that can work in both forms, defensively and offensively. For example, a move like Knock Off is often used on bulky pokemon for utility, yet is also used on offensive pokemon for strong dark-type stab or coverage. This concept aims to use both of these applications of a move, using its two forms.

Questions To Be Answered -

• How can we incentivise using our multipurpose moves over good catch-all options like STAB and recovery?
• How many of these multipurpose moves can we use effectively? Ideally you'd want as many as possible, but it may be hard to find moves that work on both forms.
  • Which ones are worth using?
• This concept slightly shoehorns one form into being defensive and the other being offensive. Could other roles work as well? Which form should be the starting form?
• As a result of mostly using these moves, our CAP may end up being very predictable. Is this possible to avoid, or should this be a part of its design?

Explanation -
This concept may seem like it boils down to just "use good moves", but the main idea here is that we specifically need to use both applications of a move. I only mentioned Knock Off, but there are also choices like Encore, Will-O-Wisp or Toxic which both offensive and defensive pokemon use to break down walls or weaken offense. There are also many new moves in recent generations that are used similarly like Psychic Noise, and moves like Alluring Voice, Burning Jealousy that could be used this way but don't have many good users. Pivot moves like U-turn, Volt Switch and Flip Turn are also very important for this concept as both fast offensive pokemon use them for damage and pivoting, while defensive pokemon use them too as a slow pivot to bring in team members safely.

There's many paths such a CAP could take. For example, we could have one who uses its offensive form Knock Off early in the game for damage and item removal, which then stays in its defensive form later in the game, now using Knock Off defensively to remove the last remaining items. Otherwise, with Encore, you could have a set up sweeper that locks something into a bad move to set up boosts. When the opponent swaps in a defensive counter, you go back to defensive form and Encore to stall out their recovery PP, before swapping back to the offensive form to finish off the game. You can also have a status spammer defensive pokemon, that then changes into an offensive Hex user, or a fast offensive pivot that swaps into its slower defensive form to bring in a team member safely.

 

[Sqookblooks]

Name - Fighting Against the Extremes

Description - The two forms of this Pokemon will be built to have a strong matchup against common Stall or Hyper Offensive team structures respectively but will be less useful or may even struggle against the other team archetype.

Justification-
One of the most important skills when team-building in competitive Pokemon is the ability to construct teams that can deal with opponents who forgo balanced structures in favor of the extremes i.e extreme defense (stall) or extreme offensive (hyper offense). These teams have inherently less flexibility in play style when compared to the more common balance or bulky offense structures seen in tournaments but nonetheless can extremely scary if your team does not have the right tools to combat them. There are many strategies one might employ to combat these structures, and a particularly common one is the use of stall-breakers that are teched to beat common stall structures but might be less useful against Hyper Offensive team structures (i.e Hoopa-Unbound or Gliscor). Although there isn't a community term for it, there are also plenty of Pokemon known for their strong matchups into hyper-offense (i.e Dragonite, Hemoglobin, and Zamazenta) but are consequently not known for having a particularly stellar matchup against Stall structures. This concept aims to utilize the inherent flexibility granted by being able to change forms based on matchup to explore what qualities might make a Pokemon good against these extreme matchups, what distinctions are made between stall breakers and "HO"-breakers, the overlap in tools that either might employ, and how slight differences in stats and typing can dramatically re-contextualize a Pokemon's role in a team.


Questions To Be Answered -

1. What tools define a Pokemon's ability to do well against the "Extreme" Matchups?
   1. What tools (stats, ability, typing, moveset) are useful for combatting common Stall structures?
   2. What tools (stats, ability, typing, moveset) are useful for combatting common Hyper Offensive structures?
   3. Does being strong against Stall and Hyper-Offense imply only offensive-leaning builds, or can we lean into defense or utility to achieve our goals on either form?
2. What tools overlap between these two roles, and which ones conflict?
   1. What Pokemon have been able to fulfill both duties, and what can we learn from them when creating our Pokemon?
   2. Given our shared moveset, how can we design a Pokemon that feels more useful against one structure than the other?
3. Although this concept is focused on the extremes of stall and hyper offense, we must also consider the matchup into more balanced team structures as well:
   1. What should the game plan for this Pokemon look like against Balance?
   2. How do we ensure that our strengths into Stall and Hyper Offense don't become oppressive against Balanced structures?
4. Which form should be the starting form, and which one should be the one summoned by using the move? How do we ensure that the starting form does not completely overshadow the summoned form?
5. How do we work around the constraint of having one move slot taken up by the Relic Song Clone?

Explanation - One of the things I've always been fascinated with when doing competitive team-building has been the process of figuring out how combat the very common HO or Stall structures that you might see on the ladder. These team styles are very strong and tend to see a lot of use in competitive tournaments, but both structures will run into major problems if they face the wrong matchup in team preview.

At cursory glance, you might think that the key to having a Pokemon strong against Stall or Hyper-Offense is actually really simple. Against Stall, just build an extremely powerful Pokemon, preferably with bulk, but without the need for high speed investment (i.e Hoopa, Ursaluna, Heatran etc). Anti-HO, on the other hand, is a bit more nebulous to define due to the increased diversity of HO structures but typically a pokemon described as good into HO will have blindingly fast speed or some form of priority. However, if you peel back the layers, this simplistic distinction gets a bit more problematic because you can easily have pokemon with high bulk, power, but low speed being described as an amazing anti-offense mon (like Melmetal back in Gen 8 or Kingambit) and you can also have fast but relatively frail Pokemon that do well against Stall (like Knock-Off Iron Valiant or Taunt Roaring Moon). The ability to combat either extreme isn't really a binary but rather ends up in more of a spectrum that depends a lot on various attributes of the Pokemon. Still, there definitely still are distinctions between Pokemon that do well against Stall and Hyper-Offense, and I think that having essentially a 2-in-1 deal of a mon presents an interesting avenue to explore what distinguishes those two roles in the builder and also see the strength that comes from having increased flexibility in team composition after team preview. This is all without talking about other avenues we could use to achieve having a strong MU against HO or Stall respectively without needing to make two offensive pokemon. For example, pokemon like Slowking-Galar and Hisuian Samurott tend to have amazing matchups into Stall because of their respective utility while Pecharunt could be described as an amazing anti-HO pokemon precisely because of its ability to mess with setup sweepers.

Finally, one reason I think this particular concept works well among the various concepts we have about having two forms with different roles among the two forms is that I think it will help us avoid the Meloetta issue with one form standing out and basically becoming the sole form as the inherent strength of having good MUs against both archetypes while also having in-built weaknesses against the other would encourage players to use both forms in the teambuilder.

 

[Darek]

Pseudo-Setup Song

This Pokemon's base form is weaker than its transformed form, and uses its "Relic Song" primarily to access its stronger form.

Justification: Relic Song is not a good move. 75 BP is middling, and a 10% chance of anything is inconsistent. This concept aims to turn this weakness into a strength by acknowledging "Relic Song" as a barrier to access to CAP36's transformed form. While previous processes have explored overcoming an inherent weakness in a Pokemon(Chromera, Hemogoblin, Shox), this concept is distinct in its exploration of in-battle opportunity cost, evaluating in which contexts are advantageous to use a turn to transform into a stronger form, and which contexts favor immediate value in the base form.

Questions to be Answered:

• Using "Relic Song" for the turn to "power up" can be seen analogous to clicking a setup move like Swords Dance. To what extent does this analogy hold, and how do these similarities and differences inform our design of CAP36?
• How much power should CAP36 have in its base form? Specifically, should it be strictly worse than its transformed form, and what kinds of progress are acceptable for it to make in its base form?
• What role does "Relic Song" have after CAP36 has transformed? Can CAP36 function with "Relic Song" as a dead moveslot post-transformation, or should it be able to utilize it as an attacking option post-transformation?
• Meloetta's current implementation of Relic Song can be seen as similar to this concept, with the Pirouette Form's Speed and strong STAB combination placing it as a stronger, but less accessible form. How does Meloetta's failure to use its Pirouette Form inform this concept, and how do we avoid the same pitfalls made by Meloetta?

explanation coming later

 

[Turn Up]

Name - Duality of Ability

Description - This pokemon utilises it's ability that is identical between forms in two different ways

Justification- A unique aspect of Meloetta's design is despite being a form change Pokemon, it has access to a standard ability. Unfortunately, Meloetta's ability, serene grace, does not play a significant role in it's viability, limited to essentially raising SpDef drop chances of Psychic / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast. It's effect on Pirouette is similarly weak and irrelevant, outside of boosting the odds of the initial Relic Song sleep. CAP36 aims to remedy this by not only have an ability that is actively contributing to it's battle prowess in every battle, but one that can serve two different purposes between two respective unique forms

Questions To Be Answered

• How can a single abillity serve multiple purposes?
  • Theres no real precedent for an in-battle form-changing Pokemon that makes particular use of it's ability. With this in mind, what can be learned from other Pokemon that have multi-faceted abilities that either do or don't effectively utilise all the facets of the ability?
  • How will the importance placed on CAP36's ability interact with it's stats and typing, and influence the other steps of the process?
  • How do the trends of the metagame influence the chosen ability, and it's overall effectiveness?
• What opportunity costs would arise from using its ability in one form as opposed to another?
  • In what ways can the "proper" usage of the forms ability be incentiviesed through the design process?
  • Is niche "improper" usage of one forms ability a drawback of the design or a an interesting facet of the design?
• How can CAP36 be incentivised to click "Relic Song"
  • Is there a notably "stronger half" to different multi-faceted abilities?
  • Should the base form have a more niche or more relevant use-case than the transformed form?

Explanation - I feel like the best way to simplify what I'm talking about is to talk about the initial ability that inspired the concept, Unaware. Unaware is typically viewed as a defensive ability, an ability for walls to sit in front of set up sweepers and ignore their boosts. This ability also comes with the less used facet of being able to wall break defensive boosting Pokemon within the meta, such as the physically inclined Skarmory, Corviknight, Venomicon, Zamazenta, Hemogoblin, Garganacl, and Dondozo, or even calm mind users like Raging Bolt, Iron Crown, Clefable, Blissey and Iron Valiant. Utilising both a defensively oriented form, with limited attack investment, and an attacking oriented form, CAP36 would be able to both be able to serve as an Unaware wall, as well as an Unaware wallbreaker that only properly in either role in their proper forms.

Some other potential abilities examples

Water Bubble - Definitely the most powerful example, and probably too overpowered, Water Bubble would allow a normally fire-weak or neutral defensive form to turn that weakness around, while giving an offensive form a significant power boost to it's water moves. The dodging burns aspect of the ability is appreciated by both defensive and offensive mons in it's own unique way as well, negating chip damage, or not suffering burns physical damage reduction

Storm Drain / Lightning Rod / Flash Fire etc. - Any of these abilities could be used to give a key immunity to the initial form, while providing the potential SpAtk buff to bolster the other form, that isn't at all concerned with being hit by the type that it's immune to. Potentially calls the concept into question due to the consistency of the offensive facet of these abilities coming into play however.

Wind Rider - Similar to above, but probably far too niche/specific, only relevant moves being Hurricane from Moltres/Zapdos/Venomicon/Tornadus-T (also blocking Bleakwind Storm in this case), Heat Wave from Zapdos, or Whirlwind from Ting-Lu

Well Baked Body - Also similar to above, but provides a defensive benefit as opposed to an offensive one, so would require a different approach to the roles of the form than one for offense and one for defense

Grassy / Psychic / Electric Terrain - All 3 of these terrains have pretty obvious offensive benefit in potentially buffing key STAB attacks of an offensive form, with all of their defensive/utility benefit being a lot more up for debate. I'd say grassy sticks out as the obvious one that makes the most sense to the concept, with both it's healing and earthquake-halfing properties being pretty obviously defensively oriented, and similar to all the other above ideas, making a defensive form eq weak, and an offensive one not scared of eq could fire off grass type attacks. However, both are benefitting from the best part of grassy terrain being the passive regen, and I think that somewhat goes against the concept. Psychic Terrain and Electric Terrain both feel weird but could work, as one doesn't have a defensive benefit, and the others defensive benefit is very geared towards enabling offensive strategies rather than reinforcing defenses, but theres potential for one form to be built to be a pure setter/utility mon, with the other being an offensive abuser of the terrains. I didn't include misty terrain due to there not being offensive properties, but there is some potential for it's two different defensive properties to both benefit one form but not another

Weather Setting Abilities - I feel like the other paragraphs inform this one enough where I don't have to go overboard, but put simply, another ability that has both unique offensive and defensive properties.

Download - Very different from the other examples, but one form could utilise the physical boost, and the other the special boost provided by download, were a mixed CAP36 to be decided on

Serene Grace - A bit too extensive to cover comprehensively, maybe will edit more later. Meloettas failure to use this ability succesfully is briefly addressed in my Justication, so this one is interesting. Potentially one form could be aiming to spread status effects, with another form being able to fish for fast flinches, guaranteed charge beam/fiery dance boosts or other things. Undoubtably a lot more possibilities to this one.

Beast Boost - This one is illegal, but it's probably one of the clearest routes to achieving the concept so i'll keep it even if just as an impossible example. CAP36 would be able to switch between two forms that have two different highest stats, using the ability to get different boosts.

 

[SHSP]

Hey everyone! Another round of feedback real quick!

Hide

Multipurpose Moves- I can see the vision with using moves offensively and defensively, and I like how you target one of the inherent challenges with our form change- the moveslot issues. My biggest worry with these is that I'm not sure there's all that much nuance with them? I think a lot of your examples work, but ask a lot here to really use something like Wisp in two wholly different ways.

Fighting Against the Extremes- Interesting one for sure. I think targeting these extremes in stall and HO is a really interesting approach to a meta-targeting concept, and I can see the allure with the form change itself giving us flexibility to deal with both. Is there a way to do this without making one/both forms really struggle into the more common midground options? If not, it feels like we'd make a very matchup-fishy type of mon.

Pseudo-Setup Song- I can absolutely see this working out, and I think it gets around the weak Relic Song inclusion pretty damn well. It does seem like a bit of a cop-out though, when a lot of other concepts are focused on trying to make both forms work out in unique ways.

Duality of Ability- This one seems really interesting to me. The example of Unaware definitely is a great one, and there's definitely a lot of ways to go about it. It definitely is reminiscent of Venom's concept as well, which could be a pro or a con depending on how you look at it. I'd love to see this with questions fully filled out.

and for some that were heavily WIP last go around-

The Chosen One- The examples definitely help visualize this one a lot better. I think there's a lot of intriguing stuff here, and playing with risk and reward with these sort of moves is very cool conceptually. I don't totally see how this interacts with the form change, however.

Lost and Found- I knew I was forgetting something, Double Shock existing is very cool. I think its maybe a little narrow just because the pool of stuff to pull from is so small, but a very cool way to interact with our form change.

I Can Do This All Day- I think the write up for this sells it a lot better. The idea of a pseudo-switch from our form change is really interesting here, and this approaches a really interesting area of competitive play with how core switching is. I'm really interested in how this would play out- I find it hard to visualize from a process perspective because its so out-there.

With that done, I'm gonna set a 48 Hour Warning on this thread. Make sure to finish up your concepts, and if you've got any questions let me know on here or on Discord!

 

[R. P. Genocraft]

Question: since Relic Song is a sound-based move, does the custom move have to be sound-based as well? If not, would it be allowed to change it to another similar move category such as a punching, biting or slicing move?

 

[spoo]

Favorite concept right now is probably Help Yourself. It reminds me of SS Dragapult and early SS Zeraora, two mons whose strengths came from being able to compress your breaker and cleaner into a single slot. Other mons like Melmetal, an incredible breaker and a defensive centerpiece, and CM Clefable, a physically defensive wall and a potent late-game win condition, fit the bill too. Role compression like this is greatly appreciated in the builder, which makes me believe this concept could be really healthy for the meta, and we're in the unique position of literally being able to compress two mons into one for this CAP. The defensive -> offensive specification offers a lot of direction out the gate (though, I almost wish it didn't mandate starting defensive, since fitting everything into four moves in addition to making EVs/natures work sounds a bit difficult), and it's one of the concepts that most explores how the two forms are interacting not just with the tier at large, or whatever foe is in front of them, but with each other. I think putting the two forms into direct conversation with one another like this would lead to a really engaging process.

Defensive Transformation is a close second for similar reasons. Again, the role specification is really helpful; I think this was a major reason that Cresceidon's process went so smoothly. We have an immediate direction, yet an incredibly open design space. There's potential here for the same role compression thing that exists in Help Yourself –– or, in the event that both forms are defensive, I could see this playing out along similar lines to I Can Do This All Day, where we're utilizing the "pseudo-switching" of our form change to synthesize two average defensive Pokemon into a single dynamic and exceptional wall.

ICTDAD comes in third place for me. Other ones I like are Damned If You Do and Duality of Ability. I would probably enjoy Ain't No Mountain High Enough if the writeup were finished. I was low on Stick Together at first, but it's growing on me slightly just due to the role compression offered by our form change. Pseudo-Setup Song is somewhat of a pessimistic approach, but is interesting to me regardless. I think Fighting Against The Extremes would be good in a different meta, but stall is very rare and HO has more than enough to deal with already.

In general, the concepts I'm most drawn to are ones where the two forms are really playing off of each other. Concepts like "this CAP uses [X move/ability] differently between forms" sort of do this, but the cooler concepts to me are ones where each form is fundamentally reliant on the other in order to succeed at their intended roles. Whether this happens like it does in Help Yourself, where the first form sets the stage for the second form to clean, or in ICDTAD, where each form must leverage the opposite's qualities in order to stay on the field, these "greater than the sum of its parts" concepts are what I'm hoping we pursue.

 

[TheDuckChris]

• Name - Double Exhaust
• Description - This pokemon utilizes its special move in a similar way to Terastalization, allowing for multiple uses of Tera's type flip style gameplay in one battle.
• Justification - Tera has been a driving force of the metagame this entire generation and one of the main features of Tera is it's ability to flip typing in a crucial turn to gain an advantage. However this is a one time benefit. It would be interesting to see if this type flip ability could happen multiple times without being overpowered. Role discussion will examine what kind of pokemon would benefit the most from being able to change its typing / stats mid battle, a discussion that has been ongoing throughout the tera metagame. Typing discussions expand from one typing combination to two, exploring how two sets of typings can complement each other. Movepool discussion would examine how moves would be used differently between the two forms, and would have to balance move power with the inherent buff of having two effective type combinations.
• Questions To Be Answered-
  • Is being able to flip typing for an immunity or resistance more than once inherently overpowered? Can this be mitigated with a set type flip that isn't as devastating as Tera?
  • Would being able to flip typing multiple times encourage earlier / looser use of the feature?
  • How does a pre-set type change interact with the wider Tera-enabled metagame?
• Explanation - This concept challenges the concept of "never exhaust" where you leave your tera flip for the last possible second in order to conserve that resource. Being able to mimic tera through a form change is rather unexplored, though it does kind of bring back some niche interactions from the mega evolution era. However being able to flip typing back and forth is an even more complex and interesting use of the form change. Typing would have to be selected carefully: they would need to have some complementary defensive benefits in order to make type flipping worth it, but they should not be so powerful that counterplay becomes a complete guessing game. On top of that, the pokemon would ostensibly still be allowed to Tera normally. Offensively the usage of this feature would be obviously quite effective, allowing for a level of unpredictability. However this Pokemon could also take on a defensive role, covering multiple defensive type benefits in one slot. Depending on role and type choice the pokemon could wield a wide variety of immunities, defensive type advantages like status blocking, prankster blocking, powder immunities, spikes avoidance etc.

 

[SHSP]

Alrighty everyone! After discussing over the last few days with the team, I'm ready to announce our final slate of concepts for CAP 36. This was a tough decision, and there was a lot I wanted to include, but we decided on the top six concepts in our eyes to make their way forward. If anyone has any questions about why something did or did not make slate, feel free to ask me and I'll give my thoughts. With that being said, I present to you our slate:

Defensive Transformation: This concept gives us a lot of what we're looking for with this process, as Spoo mentioned in his personal thoughts the other day. Identifying a role makes a lot of sense for the project, and this plays with our framework restrictions and upsides in a strong way. As Quz mentions in the justification here, a defensive in-battle form change is relatively new ground, and this concept lets us explore that territory in interesting and creative ways.

Help Yourself: This concept really nails the use of the form change, and does so in a really interesting way. There's clear challenges to solve through the process, and it gives strong direction for how we build both forms without being overbearing. The idea of a defensive mon that makes progress and sets itself up for later-game cleaning success is a really unique, really fascinating creation, and one that would result in a strong process and end product.

Damned if You Do: Playing with positioning in this way seems like a really good fit for our form change framework, as does playing with concepts like sacrifice or risk vs reward that are often harder to conceptualize. There's definitely some vagueness here we'd have to iron out in Concept Assessment, but the core idea of positioning ourselves well, weighing risk vs reward and forcing favorable situations should lead to really interesting questions to ask and discussions to have throughout the process.

I Can Do This All Day: This is a really unique take on our framework, and offers a really interesting approach towards one of the most important aspects of competitive Pokemon: switching. Playing with staying in and using our form change to get around opponent answers and getting value out of being on the field for a longer time is a very unique way to approach not just the framework, but the game as a whole, and would lead to a really interesting process.

Fighting Against the Extremes: Looking at teambuilding and structures like this is a really interesting approach to a concept, and asks some really interesting questions for our process. The big challenge here will be making CAP36 feel like a solid addition to a team when you don't play against one of these extremes, but even with that on the horizon I think the way that this can play with our form change and the unique perspective we would have to take on for this concept make it a strong, solid choice.

Duality of Ability: Ability concepts can be hit or miss, but this one is absolutely a hit. This concept would make us look at abilities in a different way, considering multiple applications at once, and gives both solid direction for the process and for how we utilize our form change. This would make for some really interesting discussions and identities for both our forms, and a really creative end product.

There you have it folks! I'd like to thank everyone who submitted, iterated, and discussed concepts through this stage. This was a tricky slate to narrow down, and again I'm always down to talk about what worked or what didn't for any concept submitted. I'm excited to see the polls and what we end up with!