CAP 38 - Part 2 - Concept Poll 1

[Spammernoob]

Before you vote, it's important that you read through each concept carefully, as well as look at our TL's post in the concept submissions thread with their justification for each that made the slate, since this concept will guide the discussion for the rest of the CAP Process. This is linked here.

This will be a Ranked Pairs vote (RP) (a form of voting where each candidate is ranked according to head to head matchups with each of its competitors in a directed acyclic graph), the details of which were discussed here.

This is a ranked vote: order does matter! You can upvote your favorites and downvote your least favorites. You may choose to rank as many or as few options as you like, but we encourage you to rank as many options as possible to ensure your preferences are taken into account fully.

Bold your votes and nothing else!

A typical vote might look like the following:

Most Preferred
Second Most Preferred
Third Most Preferred

Any comments that the voter has would go below the votes in non-bold text. Bold text is used to determine what the user's votes are, so none of the supplementary text should be in bold.

Click to collapse...

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IMPORTANT: When voting, use only the exact name of the concept submissions as listed below! The concept submissions are quoted below in order of submission:

Rigid Versatility

Name: Rigid Versatility

Description: This Pokemon is centered around a single move that all successful kits require, conversely causing the rest of the kit to be more versatile.

Justification: Most Pokemon use all their viable tools to near-equal effect. However, certain Pokemon have 1 move required for a viable kit, which is significantly better than the average move overall. This inversely gives them access to more variety in their movepool and sometimes other factors due to a single move being extremely viable.

Questions To Be Answered:

1. What moves are powerful enough to allow this sort of diversity to take effect?
2. Is this limited to attacks, or are there other moves capable of creating this effect?
3. How do moves that can deal increased damage under certain conditions come into play? Is using other moves to fulfill those conditions anti-concept?
4. Does typing of our “key move” impact how much it allows for this versatility?

Justification: The primary inspiration for this concept was :samurott-hisui:(thanks to viol and bass for pointing me towards this Mon, it’s been helpful in molding this concept) who does most of what I’m describing here with its Ceaseless Edge (perhaps this is a power marker to use), having 5 very different OU sets. Pokemon like :lokix: have had success, but also don’t really fulfill the concept strategy-wise, never really clicking anything but First Impression and U-Turn. However, I believe that this concept has levels to it, mainly in focus move power and options for other moves, which we need to explore as we dive deeper into the concept. In summary, I think this concept treads some interesting ground, and if guided right, could be a great concept for this process.

Click to collapse...

Mind over Meta

Name: Mind over Meta :malamar:

Description: A Pokémon that takes advantage of all the positives of Psychic attacks, while shoring up the issues of the typing.

Justification: This is a Pokémon that pulls from the unique potential of Psychic offenses in the CAP tier- either going all in on a Psychic type Pokémon that shores up the offensive and defensive flaws of the typing (without being forced to simply Tera away from it) while abusing the strengths, or flipping the script with a non-Psychic type Pokémon that can abuse Psychic strength while avoiding the regular Psychic-type matchups, creating something uniquely difficult to answer.
Psychic is the least used CAP typing, with only Aurumoth as our only Psychic type, and its almost never granted as meaningful coverage. And yet, we've seen success from Psychic mons like Mega Gallade, regular Slowking and Reuniclus on a level that OU hasn't. This concept will explore this latent potential for the first time and also be able to take advantage of the rising value of Psychic moves (moves like Psychic Noise and Psyshock becoming usable coverage this gen for instance).

Questions to be answered:

• What are the best psychic attacks? Which attacks can no other typing replicate?
• Out of the previous/existing OU/CAP psychics, which of them took advantage of their Psychic typing and which simply succeeded despite of it?
• What are the flaws, offensively and defensively of common Psychic types?
• Which Pokémon prey on psychic types the most in CAP, and what are their weak points, both offensively and defensively?
• What is Psychic's standalone defensive merit in CAP, and are there ability or type combinations that can lead to a particularly successful set of resistances?
• Offensively, what is Psychic coverage's purpose in the tier?
• If taking a pseudo-STAB route, how can we maximise the impact of Psychic type attacks- (what multipliers, and what synergistic coverage types?)
• What abilities support Psychic type attacks, or dissuade common Psychic type counters?

Click to collapse...

My Band

Name - My Band

Description - This pokémon works pretty well with teammates that share a typing, enabling Typespam strategies.

Justification - Typespam is a team archetype that used to be very common in the older generations. It involves putting multiple pokémon of the same typing together in one team with the purpose to overwhelm options meant to check their respective typing and thus get free reign on the opposite team. This pokémon would be able to fit into said archetypes by pairing up well with pokémon it shares typing with.

Questions To Be Answered -

• What examples can we look at of Typespam archetypes archiving success in OU? What made them so good?
• What pokémon work best in team structures meant to stack similar types together?
• The main disadvantage of typespam is that you sometime stack weaknesses on either the ofeensive or the defensive end. Should we prioritize being able to pick typings that don't stack defensive weaknesses or prioritize the offensive coverage?
• How can we ensure that this pokémon will see use alongside other pokémon it shares typing with instead of just pairing up with mons it doesn't share a type with?
• This concept may share similarities to previous "make a perfect partner for x-mon" concepts. How can we prevent this pokémon from being slotted with only one or two pokémon of the same typing instead of more options. Should this be even an issue that needs to be addressed if it partners well with very few partners of the same typing?

Click to collapse...

Stop the Secondary (Redux!)

Name: Stop the Secondary (Redux!)

Description: A Pokemon that excels at stopping the gameplan and progress of a variety of non-attacking moves.

Justification: This concept is directly taken from DPP's own CAP 9, Colossoil, who's concept was fairly straightforward: prevent non-attack moves from making progress. This concept seeks to answer the same question, this time looking at Generation 9's own status and non-attacking move users such as Ting-Lu, Gliscor, Arghonaut, Cresceidon, and Snaelstrom to name a few high-tier ones.

Questions To Be Answered:

• There are a multitude of ways to manage non-attacking moves, like the outright discouragement of their use (Magic Bounce), "ignorance" effects (Oblivious), and remedying their effects once they have been used (Rapid Spin). Are all of these methods viable? Should a Pokemon that is focused on denying non-attacking moves have multiple of these methods at their disposal?
• What types of roles do Pokemon that often deny or wipe the progress of non-attacking moves fulfill? Moves like Taunt and Rapid Spin see play on a wide variety of Pokemon, for example.
• Moves are the easiest way to think of for denying non-attacking moves. Are those types of moves necessary for a Pokemon focused on this aspect of battle?
• What are some of the most common, or the most meta-relevant, non-attacking moves that CAP 38 would want to target?
• What can we learn from how Colossoil's process played out? Are there any similar traits between the DPP metagame and today's that could be brought over in this process?

Click to collapse...

Oops! All Coverage

Name - Oops! All Coverage

Description - A Pokémon that has a wide selection of coverage moves to hit super effective against a large selection of typings.

Justification - As it stands in this generation of CAPs, we have had a history of giving them limited coverage options to preserve checks/counters as a way to balance the CAPs to fullfil their intended slated role. However, we have seen a few standout Pokémon over the generations that have had the option of multiple sets to choose from with a large move pool that have diverted from this idea and focussed on a singular optimal set instead. Some examples of this are: Terapagos (Banned due to Stellar + has a broken signature move to reduce the need to use its' wide coverage pool); Mew (Now defaults on a NP set but has previously been a staple support role in older generations) or even Necturna (using its signature Sketch to give it a theoretical infinite selection that got narrowed down to the point Rage Fist became banned due to being a fat preferred move choice.) The main Pokemon currently that feels that utilises this concept well in the meta is Iron Valiant which currently uses its strong STAB combination with mixed offensive stats to be able to use the coverage as tools to help give Valiant slightly wider range of Pokemon to hit. Even taking this list in mind, the concept of a large move pool overall currently feels underutilized and has large potential to allow us to explore and give us creative liberties on how we want this CAP to shape out

Questions To Be Answered -

• How many different type coverage options is too much for a singular Pokémon to have? Should there be a limit to what this CAP can and cannot hit?
• How do we create a CAP that doesn't favour certain coverage moves over others? How do we decide the CAP's typing that doesn't naturally cause this preference?
• What makes a Pokémon with a larger movepool balanced? How can we make it feel flexible but not overbearing to become impossible to build against?

Click to collapse...

Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks

Name: Dripping water wears through rocks

Description: This CAP pressures its would-be answers by repeated stat-dropping attacks

Justification:
Unlike setup or status moves, stat-dropping attacks are able to damage the opponent while also making the subsequent attacks more punishing. While these debuffs disappear when a Pokemon switches out, they can often force opponents to choose between staying at a disadvantage or giving up the positional momentum to reset their stats. Over the course of a battle, these repeated forced decisions can gradually overwhelm defensive answers despite the temporary nature of the drops. This concept explores whether stat reduction can serve as an effective primary form of offensive pressure, rather than just being an complementary bonus

Questions To Be Answered:

• Can repeated stat drops serve as a Pokémon's primary method of making progress?
• Which stat drops create the most meaningful offensive pressure while maintaining healthy counterplay?
• How much immediate offensive presence is needed to capitalize on repeated debuffs?
• Does our selected moves need to have 100% of a drop (i.e. Icy Wind, Acid Spray), or is anything with a high rate of happening (i.e. Seed Flare) fair game?
• How do temporary stat drops reshape switching patterns and defensive play?

Click to collapse...

Sacrifice

Name - Sacrifice
Description - This CAP invariably KOs itself as a consequence of the tools that allow it to make progress.
Justification - Pokemon battles are decided by which side loses resources first, typically when one player runs out of usable Pokemon, so it follows that you want to ensure your chosen Pokemon are able to stay healthy and avoid falling into a death spiral, where one lost resource leads into another. However, many successful Pokemon fly in the face of this wisdom, often lacking the longevity to make it to the end of a match, or being designed specifically to get KO'd for the purposes of timing and momentum. With this concept, we'd look to explore what attributes allow for a Pokemon to find continued success in spite of its own demise.
Questions To Be Answered -

1. What kind of value is necessary to justify a Pokemon that is near-guaranteed to get KO'd?
2. How important is the timing of our CAP's own KO to its gameplan?
3. Is it necessary that we have a means of immediately KOing CAP 38?
4. How does our opponent factor into CAP 38's performance? Is there something it does that warrants aggressive retaliation, or is the opponent roped into KOing us so we can execute a sequence of events?
5. As this concept is inherently catered towards more offensively-inclined team structures, is there any room for more balanced builds to fit a Pokemon that is liable to KO itself, if the expected value is high enough to justify its presence?

Click to collapse...

Pick A Side

Name: Pick A Side

Description: This CAP's stats are extremely lopsided towards one side of the spectrum.

Justification: While most Pokemon find success in having "optimized" stats, having a Pokemon that has an immediate weak point that has to be accounted for could be an interesting way to approach not just the stats stage of the process, but the rest of the process as well. Extremely weaker stats that are "baked in" are always interesting to try and work around and some Pokemon have successfully done it through past generations (Kartana, Blissey) while others have fallen off or fallen short (Sylveon, Duraludon). This is usually due to how their abilities, typings, and moves work together within the metagame. The idea of "guaranteeing" these weak and strong points means each stage of the process is even more crucial than usual as the stats stage is the last major step before the end of a process and this concept doubles down on the importance of each step that comes before it to make sure that the lopsided stats can be accounted for by other means.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What exactly defines "extremely lopsided" when it comes to one's stats? Is there a minimum threshold to reach? Is there a maximum threshold for the weaker stat/s?
• What kinda of versatility can be accomplished with this concept's lack of care for one side of the attacking spectrum?
• Is it better to overwhelm the opponent to the point of being forced to hit it on its weaker side no matter what or should there be a "fatal flaw" that specific Pokemon can power through still?
• How does a CAP with lopsided stats make itself stand out amongst more balanced stat spreads? Does the ability, typing, or moves hold the most weight when "making up" for the lack of stats on one side?
• How does the imbalance work in this CAP's favor rather than to its detriment? Should the weaker stat still suffice as "passable" or is it truly gonna be a nick in the armor that cannot be patched? If the latter, how does this CAP overcome that to be viable/used on the teams it fits on?

Click to collapse...

Mini-Uber

Name: Mini-Uber

Description: This Pokemon replicates or is inspired by a strategy, play pattern or niche used by an Uber Pokemon.

Justification: Many of the Pokemon that reside in Ubers- be it this gen or in past gens- have playstyles and niches that are totally foreign to most other Pokemon and tiers. This concept seeks to explore both the design space of those roles and niches, as well as how balance and strength work in Pokemon, to create something that draws from the unique elements of the chosen Uber without being worthy of the tier itself.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What makes an Uber Pokemon interesting beyond just the power level?
• What roles or niches, or playstyles are unique to or common among Uber Pokemon?
• On average Ubers have better stats, abilities, and movepools than OU Pokémon - out of those 3, which are safe to take away without removing a Pokemon's identity? What of these traits define what Ubers?
• Will a Pokemon still be useful even when taken out of its native context (i.e. without the specific metagame threats it checks)?
• Is there room to explore certain Ubers' unique defensive and utility potential in addition to their offenses?
• How can Pokemon already deemed too strong for OU be replicated in a more balanced fashion?

Click to collapse...

Anatomy of a Slot

Name: Anatomy of a Slot

Description: This CAP is built for a chosen “slot” on balance teams.

Justification: You have six slots on a team. What do you need out of each of them? Inevitably, many teams need the same things. Teambuilding often gets discussed in terms of these “slots”; a bulky ground slot, a water resist slot, a wincon slot, a status absorber slot, a speed control slot, a “last/filler/flex” slot, and so on. In CAP, we often talk around teambuilding (e.g. “we need to give this CAP a reason to be picked”) without addressing it head-on, only superficially addressing how a new CAP may fit into existing cores or team compositions. This failure to adequately understand how CAPs will exist in the teambuilder can be directly traced to past errors where our expectations during a process did not end up aligning with the CAP's real use post-release. Rarely, if ever, has our project’s focus been moved off the field and into the builder in this way. This concept puts current teambuilding processes and practices under the knife by identifying a teamslot with open design space on balance and exploring how such a slot could be filled in our metagame. In this sense, the concept is just as much about accomplishing its stated goal as it is the unique perspective we will take during the process to get there.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What are the most important slots that balance teams typically gravitate toward - or, what are the most important things for a given slot to have? What are teams actually looking for?
• Which slots have open space for competition, and which slots are "solved" or "closed"?
• How far can we stretch the definition of what our slot is, while still fulfilling its primary purpose? (E.g. is Mollux a bulky Water? Is Tera Water Garganacl a Water resist? Is Zeraora a Volt blocker? Is Zamazenta a physical wall? Is Ramnarok speed control?) Which slots have the most potential for flexibility/stretching in this way?
• How does Terastallization interact with slots that are traditionally type- or resistance-based?
• Which common slots have the most potential for overlap (e.g. teams that double up on bulky grounds)? Are balance structures looking for more options for inter-slot redundancy like this, or instead slots that accomplish unique and currently unavailable functions?
• What balance should we strike between conforming to the similarities between 'mons in a given slot - essentially, what's known to work - and carving out a different path from the rest? Where does the most possiblity lie for breaking long-held building conventions?
• How do we go about building a CAP to fit into a specific metagame & team structure, when the meta and structure in question will inevitably change once CAP 38 is introduced? What does concept success look like when we shake up the very structure we've been analyzing and creating hypotheses around? Is there anything to gain from deep analysis of a metagame that will immediately be rendered outdated?

Click to collapse...

Once again, your options are:

Rigid Versatility
Mind over Meta
My Band
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Oops! All Coverage
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Sacrifice
Pick A Side
Mini-Uber
Anatomy of a Slot

This poll will be open for 24 hours.

 

[Shock3600]

Rigid Versatility
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Anatomy of a Slot
Oops! All Coverage
Mini-Uber
Mind over Meta
Sacrifice
My Band
Pick A Side
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)

 

[Sqookblooks]

My Band
Pick A Side
Mini-Uber
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Mind over Meta
Mini-Uber
[B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B][B]Rigid Versatility[/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B]
Anatomy of a Slot
Oops! All Coverage
Sacrifice[/B][/B][/B][/B]

Manifesting a My Band victory. We will spam these types.

 

[viol and bass]

Rigid Versatility
Mind over Meta
Anatomy of a Slot
Sacrifice
Pick A Side
My Band
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Oops! All Coverage
Mini-Uber

 

[traceyscetchit]

Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Mini-Uber
Mind over Meta
Rigid Versatility
Oops! All Coverage
Sacrifice
My Band
Pick A Side
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Anatomy of a Slot

 

[AzothBend]

Mind over Meta
Rigid Versatility
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Anatomy of a Slot
Oops! All Coverage
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Sacrifice
Pick A Side
My Band
Mini-Uber

 

[Blue glass]

Oops! All Coverage
Pick A Side
Anatomy of a Slot
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks

 

[Guingil]

Sacrifice
Anatomy of a Slot
Pick A Side
Mini-Uber
Rigid Versatility
Oops! All Coverage
Mind over Meta
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
My Band
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)

 

[Ayecrusher King]

Mind over Meta
My Band
Rigid Versatility
Mini-Uber
Sacrifice
Oops! All Coverage
Pick A Side

 

[abyssalcrisis]

Oops! All Coverage
Rigid Versatility

 

[Gekokeso]

My Band
Mind over Meta
Mini-Uber
Oops! All Coverage
Sacrifice
Pick A Side
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Anatomy of a Slot
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Rigid Versatility

 

[Felis Licht]

Pick A Side
Sacrifice
Mini-Uber
Oops! All Coverage
My Band
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Mind over Meta
Anatomy of a Slot
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Rigid Versatility

 

[Scepticskep]

Mini-Uber
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
My Band
Sacrifice
Stop The Secondary (Redux!)

 

[kenn]

Pick A Side
Oops! All Coverage
My Band
Sacrifice
Anatomy of a Slot
Mind over Meta
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Rigid Versatility
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Mini-Uber

 

[Pipotchi]

Mind over Meta
Pick a Side
Anatomy of a Slot
Sacrifice
Rigid Versatility
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Mini-Uber
My Band
Oops! All Coverage
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)

 

[SunshineFuture]

Pick A Side
Oops! All Coverage
Anatomy of a Slot
Mind over Meta
My Band
Sacrifice
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Mini-Uber

 

[Rysachi]

Oops! All Coverage
Mind over Meta
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)

 

[Perturbo]

Rigid Versatility
Mini-Uber
Oops! All Coverage
Mind over Meta
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks

 

[FaelisongTalim]

Mind over Meta
Rigid Versatility
Mini-Uber
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Oops! All Coverage
Sacrifice
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
My Band
Pick A Side
Anatomy of a Slot

 

[cat111ca]

Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Rigid Versatility
Anatomy of a Slot
Mind over Meta

 

[TerrickTerran]

Anatomy of a Slot
Rigid Versatility
Mini-Uber
Pick A Side

 

[Amamama]

Mind over Meta
Anatomy of a Slot
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Sacrifice
Oops! All Coverage
Pick A Side
My Band
Rigid Versatility
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Mini-Uber

 

[Volsur]

Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
Sacrifice
Anatomy of a Slot
Oops! All Coverage
Rigid Versatility
My Band

 

[IGotEaten]

Rigid Versatility
Oops! All Coverage
My Band
Pick A Side
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks

 

[HealthGage]

Sacrifice
Mind over Meta
Stop the Secondary (Redux!)
Dripping Water Wears Through Rocks
My Band
Oops! All Coverage
Rigid Versatility
Pick A Side
Mini-Uber
Anatomy of a Slot