As long as they're TM's, I'm fine.
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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Attacking Moves Discussion
- Thread starter Sunday
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As long as they're TM's, I'm fine.
Ill give you Dark Void, but the rest aren't "Signature Moves"
I don't what the problem is with this thread!?! Everyone keeps making off-topic posts, despite the fact that I have handed out a ton of infractions AND I made a specific warning about it. Here's the post.
I'm posting this as a final reminder to anyone else. Stay on topic. The topic is Attacking moves.
I'm posting this as a final reminder to anyone else. Stay on topic. The topic is Attacking moves.
Yeah, but explain to me how the same Skarmory is dealt 0 damage when a Sludge Bomb is thrown at it...
That's how Pokemon works, unfortunately.
I never said that it was doing damage thought having sludge/acid being thrown in your eye would hurt like heck. I was talking about the move's secondary effect.
Since it's secondary effect is based around the idea of blinding a Pokemon thus causing them to flee, that would still activate regardless of being immune towards the Attack. It's like how Rapid Spin logic implies that you have to hit something in order to remove entry hazards which really it should be the actual spinning of one self that remove them regardless if it hit or not. I'm aware that putting too much logic into Pokemon seriously make things more complex, but are time where you question the reasoning behind move/ability effects.
Wouldn't a 30'+ Rock Snake get enraged if you threw acid in its face, and start wildly flailing about, causing massive damage everywhere? A swagger-like secondary effect would make more sense.
DLL can emit substances to deter predators. This could easily be turned into a tear gas like substance to fit your idea.
Are we still discussing Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Fake Out or not?
Since this is a Pure Utility Pokemon with 76 Attack base and 90 Sp. Attack base. I decided to give these moves.
Absolutely Yes:
Earthquake - Can be Choicebanded
Earth Power - STAB and nice to use for your moveset
Focus Blast - NON-Stab makes it not broken and Its accuracy is bad enough, but Nice to use it in the Metagame.
Focus Punch - Makes it useful for Subtitute-FPunch or Encore-FPunch since Encoring can make them switch out.
Gunk Shot - Can be Choicebanded along with stab, Makes it useful.
Sludge bomb - STAB and nice to use for your moveset
Sucker Punch - Can be Choicebanded to make use of it for Faster/Weakened Pokes.
U-turn - Useful for a Utility pokemon and can be Choicebanded.
Weather ball - Immune to Sandstorm, Makes it a nice 100 BP Rock-type attack to be used in the Metagame.
Shadow ball - Since DLL was decided to get Rapid spin, This can be useful if Ghost walls you from Rapid spinning those annoying Slealth rocks.
Tri-Attack - To make use of 30% Para/Burn/Freeze and his nice Sp. Attack base
Charge Beam - Good to Counter Gyarados and freinds, Also increases Sp. attack.
Close Combat - It needs it to make up for its Attack base and can be Choicebanded.
Cross Chop - Same as above ^^
Energy Ball/Grassknot - makes it nice to attack Bulky waters.
Flamethrower - makes it useful to attack Steels and Grass that can Wall over its poor Attack base
Ice Beam - makes it useful for Dragons and flying.
Pursuit - DLL gets Encore. Encore can annoy enough for them to switch.
So this move makes it nice to use.
Poison jab - Can be Choicebanded and make it useful because it has STAB.
Absolutely No:
Explosion - Too Powerful
Fire blast - Too Powerful enough.
Thunderbolt - We don't need a 100% Gyarados counter.
Dark Pulse
Any Water attacks
Any Flying moves
The Pure Utility Pokemoncan be Choice banded or Maybe have Choice specs to be used in the Metagame since It have Immune to Paralyze/Sleep/Poison except Burn which you shouldn't worry if you're using Choice specs.
I hope I didn't give a lot of moves because most are TMs and some can be learned by Egg moves or Heart scales.
NONE OF THESE MOVES ARE BROKEN! Like I said above, It has 76 Attack base and 90 Sp. Attack.
Think of it like this, Starmie has 115 Speed and 100 SAtk, how much do you see it sweeping? This has less Speed and SAtk, so why would it sweep if Starmie can't?
What you think of this List?
The biggest thing to consider with all the moves that have been debated (if you want to call it that..) in this topic is that while they may or may not fit flavor wise, something that not everyone cares about, they are interesting moves on their own.
That might not be enough merit though. This pokemon will have better things to be doing, and it probably won't even be able to use half of the moves as well as other pokemon could. So getting back to what I said before in another post, this guy isn't getting 100+ moves. I guess people didn't see where I was going with that before because I didn't really follow up, but if you want to waste a slot on Icy Wind/Tackle/[punch]/etc. then go ahead, but keep in mind that you'll have to compromise and not give it another move that you may want or may be good on it.
That's my stance on Icy Wind especially. It's not really a useful move (read: For _THIS_ pokemon), and since it's not a TM that's just another Egg move/Level up move slot being taken up. And there aren't a lot of those spaces guys. There are about 15-20ish level up moves on a pokemon and less than 10 Egg moves from what I've seen, though I'm probably wrong. Considering a lot of the support moves we want to give it aren't TMs (Wish/Gravity/Tailwind kinda/Rapid Spin/etc.) and some of the STAB moves that seem to be wanted aren't TMs (Earth Power/Gunk Shot) and the elemental punches aren't TMs, moves like Icy Wind have some competition.
Personally, they take a back seat to me and would only be added in if there is extra room and they don't suck flavor wise ...(Fire Fing?...).
Shame on me for not elaborating earlier I guess.
That might not be enough merit though. This pokemon will have better things to be doing, and it probably won't even be able to use half of the moves as well as other pokemon could. So getting back to what I said before in another post, this guy isn't getting 100+ moves. I guess people didn't see where I was going with that before because I didn't really follow up, but if you want to waste a slot on Icy Wind/Tackle/[punch]/etc. then go ahead, but keep in mind that you'll have to compromise and not give it another move that you may want or may be good on it.
That's my stance on Icy Wind especially. It's not really a useful move (read: For _THIS_ pokemon), and since it's not a TM that's just another Egg move/Level up move slot being taken up. And there aren't a lot of those spaces guys. There are about 15-20ish level up moves on a pokemon and less than 10 Egg moves from what I've seen, though I'm probably wrong. Considering a lot of the support moves we want to give it aren't TMs (Wish/Gravity/Tailwind kinda/Rapid Spin/etc.) and some of the STAB moves that seem to be wanted aren't TMs (Earth Power/Gunk Shot) and the elemental punches aren't TMs, moves like Icy Wind have some competition.
Personally, they take a back seat to me and would only be added in if there is extra room and they don't suck flavor wise ...(Fire Fing?...).
Shame on me for not elaborating earlier I guess.
I think we should go whole hog and give it Megahorn so that it can be a supercharged special-variant Nidoking in addition to already being a supercharged Nidoqueen.
I'm going for no elemental beams on this. They don't fit flavorwise at all unless you're using Naruto standards for move creation. "Fire style Blast Burning Jutsu!" "Thunder Bolting Lightning Style Jutsu!" "Ice Beaming Frost Style Jutsu!" For "Ball" moves I'm completely open. I also don't think we should be giving this every fighting attack under the sun just because of lolhands, especially not something as intrinsically unbalanced as Close Combat.
Although to be honest, I'm sitting on the fence with Ice Beam, but most of that is fueled by Garchomp hatred.
Really, just drop the crazy add-ons Weather Ball, Tri Attack, Focus Blast, Cross Chop, and Flamethrower, and I'm set, although I'd add in Dark Pulse just because there is little practical difference between it and Shadow Ball.
Okay, since Sunday didn't initially post a master list, I'll just use user: LOLMUDKIPZ's list to edit.
I disagree with are Close Combat, Focus Punch, Pursuit, and Thunderbolt.
I feel Close Combat would be way to broken on this thing.
I don't see Focus Punch meshing well with "Vital Spirit," but it's okay I suppose.
Encore+Pursuit, I feel would be a dangerous combination.
Even with Thunderbolt, this is by no means a 100% Gyarados counter. First of all, after 1 DD, Gyarados outspeeds it. Next, it threatens with STAB SE boosted Waterfall. Third, it's low special attack won't always OHKO thanks to Gyarados' excellent defenses, and because Speed and HP is the focus, not SpA.
I disagree with are Close Combat, Focus Punch, Pursuit, and Thunderbolt.
I feel Close Combat would be way to broken on this thing.
I don't see Focus Punch meshing well with "Vital Spirit," but it's okay I suppose.
Encore+Pursuit, I feel would be a dangerous combination.
Even with Thunderbolt, this is by no means a 100% Gyarados counter. First of all, after 1 DD, Gyarados outspeeds it. Next, it threatens with STAB SE boosted Waterfall. Third, it's low special attack won't always OHKO thanks to Gyarados' excellent defenses, and because Speed and HP is the focus, not SpA.
I'm working on a tenative movepool now, and really, good luck to all of you. With all the stuff you want to give this thing, there is going to be almost NO WAY to fit all these things. I suggest you choose wisely the attacks you want, because if we want to follow X-Act's movepool guide, there are going to be some cuts.
To get this post more on topic, this has to do with Deck's post. We need to cut down on the Usable Flavor crap.
To get this post more on topic, this has to do with Deck's post. We need to cut down on the Usable Flavor crap.
While you make a rough draft of movepool, I'm busy editing a list of TMs and HM, and will post it for all to see soon. In the meantime, It's clean that almost any suggested move that are TM/HMs are okay with you all?
Alright, I'm cutting this off here.
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Icy Wind
Pursuit
Close Combat/Cross Chop (lets get these out of the way with a poll)
There's the next poll. Even on that list there are a few that aren't all that debatable but we may aswell get them onto the "ban" list for good.
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Icy Wind
Pursuit
Close Combat/Cross Chop (lets get these out of the way with a poll)
There's the next poll. Even on that list there are a few that aren't all that debatable but we may aswell get them onto the "ban" list for good.
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