CAP 15 CAP 4 - Part 3 - Threat Discussion

[CiteAndPrune]

Really, I don't see any viable questions left for this discussion anymore. As evidenced that BMB hasn't posed any questions either, we're just to discuss his given point of view.
And as such, I think BMB is right. We shouldn't go for full counters, just checks.

That said, I feel the threats discussion doesn't really have any further goal then. It's to help us define what we should keep in mind in later stat and movepool discussion, as we need to limit moves or stats that may hurt our chosen counters. Since there aren't any, and BMB has explicitly stated that CAP4 should be able to muscle through anything, I feel there shouldn't be any further conclusion from this thread. We just have a lot more leeway in the coming stages when we don't have to think of hard counters.

I'd like to agree with Yllnath on this point. I think with what's been reached thus far - agreement that CAP4 should have no hard counters, only checks - we've done most of our job for this stage of the process.

However, since we'll be taking our conclusions from this to the stat limits and other stages, I'd like to bring up a point I haven't seen others give sufficient consideration.

The best way to threaten as many OU mons as possible is by giving CAP4 viable mixed offenses. There are lots of reasons for doing this: even one hard-hitting physical move puts Chansey and Blissey under pressure, while Skarmory and Gliscor would fear a strong special hit, especially a correct Hidden Power. On the teambuilding stage, this rewards skill for combining necessary coverage with choosing allies to help make up for what remains to be taken out, whereas in battle, it will make CAP4 one of those many Pokemon that must be scouted to find out what set it's running before it can be stopped. Think Arceus in Ubers - is it physical, special, tank, support, Choiced or bluffing, or what? If 4MSS is the result, then that's fine. Mixed offenses also introduce an interesting dilemma that Salamence players should be familiar with - how to split ATK, SAT and SPD EVs? I think this is superior to having a heavy bias on one side of the spectrum.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

OK so I think we've exhausted this line of enquiry somewhat

Points to take forward:

• We aren't deliberately giving CAP4 any hard counters, but a plethora of checks and soft counters that will render an unboosted or 3-move CAP4 less effective
• 4-move attackers should have no safe switch-ins, but must hold the correct coverage move to threaten particular opponents
• CAP4 should be capable of threatening from both sides of the attacking plate

Everybody happy? Good. Moving on.

Oh, and as a note, we're doing abilities next. I'll explain in the next thread. See you there.