CAP 17 CAP 6 - Part 5 - Stat Limits

[jas61292]

For the most part I think these limits look good. I do have a few comments though. First off, I would like to repeat what I said earlier as far as Physical Sweepieness. I'd prefer to lower it down even lower than 180, so we are not tempted to do non-BD sets. However, 180 itself is not awful. With that said, I do want to nitpick at the calc in alexwolf's post. That is an accurate calc itslef, but what I had said I wanted to avoid was getting the KO after 2 times switching into stealth rocks. SR does 12.5% to Latios per switch, so that is 25% total, meaning that that attack would indeed have a 25% chance to KO after two SR hits. I personally think this is too much, and I'd rather see the limit lowered, but even if its not I don't think we should be raising it at all.

Secondly, I'd like to see us bring down the Special Sweepieness limit. Personally, I think we need us to lack the ability to do anything offensively on the special side at all, so I don't see why we need a usable special attack stat. Talking on IRC earlier today, it was generally agreed on that something in the range of 60-65 was the bottom end of usable, with stats in there being occasionally good enough to run a x4 SE Hidden Power for a counter. I don't think we want this at all. I don't think we need to go rock bottom, but I think that in conjunction with high speed (say, 110 or higher) we should not be able to have a stat any higher than 60. Due to this I would just suggest lowering the limit to 110.

Finally, I just want to say that I think the lower end of the BSR range is the way to go. I can't really see any combination of stats that would fit what we need that would take us up that high, so I don't really see a need for it. I personally would even recommend dropping it to 300, as Korski suggested above, but this is not a major concern.

 

[Ignus]

Sounds pretty good here, too! No changes, as far as I can see, are necessary nor important. Our arguing will most likely be limited to the stat spreads themselves, mostly because these limits will make us choose between speed and offensive power. Onward!

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Okay, thanks for a great discussion everyone. There have been a lot of great posts on the matter, and it's time to move on to Stat Spread Submissions. But first, the limits!

Physical Sweepiness: The Limit Is 180
Physical Tankiness: The Limit is 185
Special Sweepiness: The Limit is 125
Special Tankiness: The Limit is 140

The Base Stat Rating must be under 310. There is no lower limit for Base Stat Rating.

(all limits are inclusive)
I've decided to keep the Physical Sweepiness at 180. I was not convinced to raise the limit above 180, as the calculations provided for a Base 102 Attack stat are very similar to those with a Base 100 Attack stat; I could not identify a need for increasing that limit. In the end, the difference between a 180 and 185 PS limit is about two to three Attack points if Speed doesn't change, and there aren't many calculations (none that I can name off the top of my head) that require a tweak in PS.

The calculations in my previous post show what 185 Physical Tankiness can do, and there were no outcries to lower that number back to 180. Therefore, the limit of 185 will stand.

For Special Sweepiness, I slightly compromised down from 130 to 125, but I'm not going any further. With 125 Special Sweepiness, spreads such as 73/99 (SpA/Spe), 71/101, 69/109, 68/116, and 66/131 are all acceptable. There's no point to forcing SpA to be a blatant dump stat when most OU physical sweepers have at least an acceptable Special Attack, and with this limit all spreads faster than base 95 Speed will be forced under 75 Special Attack. There are no worries about a usable Special Attack with this limit.

Special Tankiness was not challenged between the temporary limit and now, so I kept at at 140.

The BSR must be under 310; this should not shock anyone as it was the centerpiece of my argument in the previous post.

Judge away, TL capefeather!

 

[capefeather]

I thought people knew that I can't stay up to that hour anymore. Oh, well. You guys have waited for about 18 hours and all you get is a decision not to change DetroitLolcat's stat limits. Also a video. Is it just me or has the Captain Falcon scene really consisted mainly of Hax for the past couple of years? I've neglected this aspect of my internet life for too long.