CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 3 - Secondary Typing Poll

[Plus]

Vote for the typing you think is best for CAP as a Secondary Typing: Ground, Poison, or Fighting. Click here for discussion on the typing.

• We will not allow posts in this topic such as "I voted typing." Put some substance into your post.
  

Our CAP so far:

Name: Stop the Secondary
Description: A Pokémon that through means of ability, moves, and typing, can stop a variety of the non damaging affect of moves and moves of non damaging origin.

Justification: While the immediate threat of damaging moves is large and present, the affect of moves such as status, Trick, Leech Seed, Taunt, Stealth Rock, Spikes have arguably had a greater affect to the metagame than anything has ever had, something that this would greatly look in to.

Questions to be Answered:
~ How easily would a Pokémon with such large of a niche be able to fit into a competitive team?
~ How large of an impact would the reducation of non damaging affects and moves have on the metagame?

- What, if any, would happen to the types of teams being used?
- How would this affect the usage of these types of moves?​

~ How much of an affect does typing have on the ability for ANY Pokémon to perform this duty?

Main Typing: Dark

This poll will close on October 3, 8:00 EST.

 

[familyguyman]

I'm going with Fighting. Despite Doug's comments, which are to be respected, I just feel Fighting represents the best balance of offense and defense, much like my reasoning for wanting Ground for the main type.

 

[viol and bass]

I'd just like to point this out.

I'm against Fighting for two reasons:

1) I don't see much specific help for the concept, other than the general claim "Fighting is a good type overall" -- which is true. Fighting is a really good type, in general. It rocks, we know that. Which is why...

2) We discuss Fighting or put Fighting on almost every CAP, it seems. There's no rule that says we can't make another Fighting CAP pokemon. But, we have done Fighting twice already, and we discussed it on a couple other CAP pokemon too. I feel the same way about Ghost -- "Ugh... do we need to have the same discussions AGAIN?...." For some project members, I guess it doesn't bug you. But, for me, it seems too much like "Been there, done that."

 

[Deck Knight]

So we're letting a flavor argument fly because Doug supports it?

Please bring something else to the table people. CAP is better than that.

 

[Thorns]

Ground. I feel that Dark stops the secondary well enough, and Ground can make CAP9 stop the secondary and not die to the secondary either, immune to Thunder Wave, resistance to SR and SS, etc.

 

[viol and bass]

Of course the fact that Doug supported it doesn't mean that it's valid. It's valid in my opinion because I believe it's getting a bit excessive and we should have variety in typing. We can learn more about types we haven't used much of before.

 

[familyguyman]

Of course the fact that Doug supported it doesn't mean that it's valid. It's valid in my opinion because I believe it's getting a bit excessive and we should have variety in typing. We can learn more about types we haven't used much of before.

In all fairness, if the main type were, say, Ground, I might not push for Fighting here.

Dark/Fighting is just awesome due to it's synergy. To the same degree that Poison/Ground was awesome for Fidgit or Ghost/Steel was awesome for Kitsunoh (though I didn't vote on either).

 

[HSA]

Ground. I feel that Dark stops the secondary well enough, and Ground can make CAP9 stop the secondary and not die to the secondary either, immune to Thunder Wave, resistance to SR and SS, etc.

That is basically my reasoning.I mean, with immunity to all things mentioned,This cap could actually go a long way in "stopping the secondary"

 

[Korski]

Yeah, Ground makes CaP die to the primary before it even gets a shot at secondary. Is it really worth the T-Wave immunity to add 3 common type weaknesses? Anyways, voted Fighting because it is the best competitive choice for this CaP.

 

[Raikizen]

So we're letting a flavor argument fly because Doug supports it?

Please bring something else to the table people. CAP is better than that.

Seconded.

I voted Poison.

It is an accumulation of effects that caused me to vote as such. Great defensive synergy with Dark; Immunity to Poison and asborption of Toxic Spikes; Poison types usually have a pretty varyied movepool to work with, alongside of Darks; and I feel that Poison relates more closely to the primary concept of "Stopping the Secondary".

 

[Arb]

hmmm reeeaaaallllyyy close, in the end im gona have to vote Ground, i like like poison cause of the lack of super effective moves (cept ground) but, welll resiting entry hazards is more important....

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Going with Ground.

Immunity to Thunder Wave and resistance to Stealth Rock is quite peachy indeed, and Ground has great offensive synergy with Dark.

 

[Magmortified]

Ground is pretty solid by itself for stopping those various secondaries. It gets Electric immunity (by extension TWave is now a nonfactor), Sandstorm and SR resistance. Solid.

Offensively, Ground gives us a lot of leverage, since we now have the always-amazing STAB Earthquake to draw on. It works well with Ground on that score also, since it hits Steel types supereffectively, while being a solid neutral hit towards Fighting types. Dark meanwhile hits many of the Levitating Pokemon for heavy damage. While we incur some extra weaknesses defensively, it's really nothing that's going to hurt that badly. Not to mention we now take both of Rotom's STABs. With Guts or something Rotom will have some trouble taking CAP 9 down. :D

I don't really get Dark/Poison to be honest. The most I can see for it is the Toxic/Tspikes thing... maybe some typing neutralities, but that's about it. It doesn't really bring much to the mix on Offense, and it's not that great a benefit on defense. There are other ways of dealing with Poison and Toxic Spikes that we could easily give CAP 9. I don't think that using up something as important as typing on dealing with them is the way to go.

 

[beej]

I voted Ground, as it grants a T-Wave immunity, SS immunity and Rock resistance. It also provides good coverage with Dark, which allows this thing to switch into secondary users and take offensive control of the game. Fighting is okay too, though.

I'm really, really against Poison. It adds the ability to absorb TS and be immune to Toxic, and some neutralities to things. That is IT. In exchange, it gives a Ground weakness and, worse, it means that this Pokemon will be forced to work with a single, only decent STAB, which further hurts its ability to assert its dominance upon switching into a secondary damage abuser. Again, the concept is "stop the secondary", not "be immune to the secondary". Poison is one of the easiest statuses to take if you're going to take an offensive approach to stopping the secondary, which is absolutely the right thing to do here. Paralysis is one of the most difficult to take. Ground grants an immunity to Thunder Wave, a resistance to Stealth Rock, immunity to Sandstorm, and a good second STAB option. For those who say that these things don't help it fulfill its concept, I will say that that's wrong because they allow CAP9 to put the opponent into a position where they regret letting this Pokemon in much more so than anything Poison grants will.

 

[ReysonTheNoble]

Voted Fighting because it has amazing synergy with Dark, offensively and defensively. I really like the idea of this CAP abusing STAB Focus Punch when pokemon(Like trick users) are forced to switch. Ground has WAY too many common weaknesses, and a Ground weakness for Poison is too much for me. Basically, it comes down to this:

Ground- if you want an Electric resist, which means extra status immunity

Poison- if you want a great defensive mon who absorbs Toxic(Spikes) but has a terrible weakness

Fighting- if you want a pokemon who is balanced both offensively and defensively, resists Stealth Rocks, has few exploitable weaknesses, but no status immunity(which could be fixed by Guts anyway)
​

 

[Elegy]

Ground.
This is for the Thunder Wave/Sandstorm immunity + SR resistance. Not only that, but Earthquake could hit harder, with greater coverage when combined with Dark.

Would've gone with Poison too, though. it was a tough decision.

Fighting was another nice choice, but whyyyyyyyyyy Doug whyyyyyyyyy did you bring that up? :( I agree with Fighting being too safe, but it was a flavor reason! Well I think this poll was a little awkward to vote.

 

[sing]

voted for ground. seemed to be the best choice, going along with everything everyone else has already said about it.

Its the best choice to stopping the secondary. Which is after all the topic of this cap. Not "good offense and defense" or anything else people have been saying.

Also Guts doesn't grant immunity people!

 

[hydrolphin]

While I do think that Ground would be a fine typing, I prefer, Poison for its defensive abilities, and the handy fighting neutrality. Also noting that the poll is currently not a public poll. It numbers aren't links...

 

[Hegna]

Ground for sure.

T-wave immunity, and sandstorm immunity is just so useful IMO.
I don't think fighting really helps, lacking anything ground doesn't already have (SR resistance), and poison just doesn't seem worth it as all it gets is Toxic immunity.

 

[Brambane]

Despite how much i pushed Poison, I voted ground. While it has a lot more weaknesses then poison does, it comes with the benefit of being immune to T-wave, which has always vexed me. However, what really made me change is the fact that i forgot about abilities. Poison Heal seems great, and a poison-type can't take advantage of that. I know it is discoraged to bring up abilities, but with this CAP, it's kinda hard to avoid tbh.

 

[franky]

Voted Ground. Poison / Dark is a bad typing in this Steel-type infested metagame. At least with Ground, you get to threaten them with STAB Ground move. Not to mention the SR resist, as well as the Thunder Wave immunity.

 

[Tortferngatr]

Ground for sure.

T-wave immunity, and sandstorm immunity is just so useful IMO.
I don't think fighting really helps, lacking anything ground doesn't already have (SR resistance), and poison just doesn't seem worth it as all it gets is Toxic immunity.

A lack of 5 weaknesses, practically all of them used at least somewhat in OU/CAP OU?

Water: Swampert, Starmie, Vaporeon, Arghonaut, Gyrarados, etc.
Grass: Infernape (better not make this guy too heavy then,) Celebi, Roserade, Pyroak
Fighting: Arghonaut, Machamp, Lucario, Infernape, Scizor, etc.
Ice: Mamoswine, Weavile, almost ALL Water-types, Syclant, etc.
Bug: Scizor, Jirachi and other U-turn users, Heracross

Water, Fighting, and Ice are ALL common offensive types. Grass Knot and U-turn are used often enough that they need consideration. Dark/fighting has only Flying weakness (and since when has ANY Pokemon besides Togekiss [and Shaymin-S, if it comes to OU] considered it?) and Fighting weakness. Dark/Poison has only a ground weakness (Granted, Earthquake, but yeah.) I cast my vote with Dark/Fighting.

 

[Hegna]

A lack of 5 weaknesses, practically all of them used at least somewhat in OU/CAP OU?

Water: Swampert, Starmie, Vaporeon, Arghonaut, Gyrarados, etc.
Grass: Infernape (better not make this guy too heavy then,) Celebi, Roserade, Pyroak
Fighting: Arghonaut, Machamp, Lucario, Infernape, Scizor, etc.
Ice: Mamoswine, Weavile, almost ALL Water-types, Syclant, etc.
Bug: Scizor, Jirachi and other U-turn users, Heracross

Water, Fighting, and Ice are ALL common offensive types. Grass Knot and U-turn are used often enough that they need consideration. Dark/fighting has only Flying weakness (and since when has ANY Pokemon besides Togekiss [and Shaymin-S, if it comes to OU] considered it?) and Fighting weakness. Dark/Poison has only a ground weakness (Granted, Earthquake, but yeah.) I cast my vote with Dark/Fighting.

We're trying to stop secondary effects.
Fighting doesn't do much to that effect.
The goal isn't to make an overall amazing Pokemon, but one that stops secondary effects.
Fighting may be better typing defensively, but it doesn't really contribute to the goal of the CAP.
Ground does the best when you consider the goal of stopping secondary effects, thus it has my vote.

 

[viol and bass]

We're trying to stop secondary effects.
Fighting doesn't do much to that effect.
The goal isn't to make an overall amazing Pokemon, but one that stops secondary effects.
Fighting may be better typing defensively, but it doesn't really contribute to the goal of the CAP.
Ground does the best when you consider the goal of stopping secondary effects, thus it has my vote.

But that can easily be left to the ability. There's no point in voting ground because it's immune to electric if the ability would make it immune to t-wave anyway. And I believe it will because otherwise we stop a maximum of, say, two secondary effects (assuming ground type and flash fire or an equivalent ability), which doesn't really fulfill the concept.

 

[.com]

Voted Ground as it seems to fit the concept better. T-Wave and Sand Storm immunity, along with resistance to Stealth Rock.
Poison's Toxic immunity isn't without merit, but as far as secondary effects go I would say Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave were significantly more common.