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CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 9b - Secondary Ability Poll

What should be CAP 9's Secondary Ability?

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ferron said:
any why would you rely on the opponent when its easier to do it yourself?
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Guts + Leftovers or possibly Life Orb is insanity. Though with the presence of CAP9, I don't see many secondary users risking it so I suspect usage of those moves will drop and it'll probably end up being Flame Orb, but still.

Guts + RestTalk is also now viable.
 
No Secondary Ability

We already have a Custom ability which (Somewhat) stops the secondary.

If Poision Heal was here, as I stated before, it could protect after the switch-in meaning CAP9 would play mindgames on it's first switch-in (Prediction provided), as the ability it has is vital.

But, as stated tons of times, Guts is plain Broken on something with more speed than Heracross. (Which Deck Knight's spread has) We know Guts dosen't stop the secondary, and CAP9 would be used to switch in on say... Blissey's Toxic, then sweep.
 
Well, I suppose Guts is better than nothing... kinda pissed off that Poison Heal didn't make it though. AMC is a one-shot ability, after that it's not longer protected. Guts does protect from status at least (well, the Flame Orb coupled with it does)
 
Voted no secondary ability as I don't want a flameorb abuser as the best set for something that's meant to fill the concept of stopping the secondary.
 
Sceats said:
Voted no secondary ability as I don't want a flameorb abuser as the best set for something that's meant to fill the concept of stopping the secondary.
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To be honest, unless a pokemon has very good defensive typing and stats, it would need at least 100 base speed to sweep. CAP9 has base 95 speed, only decent defensive stats and rather mediocre defensive typing.
 
familyguyman said:
Guts + Leftovers or possibly Life Orb is insanity.
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Raikaria said:
We know Guts dosen't stop the secondary, and CAP9 would be used to switch in on say... Blissey's Toxic, then sweep.
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This is exactly why Guts is a good thing. Not Flame Orb abuse, but the opponent activating it for you.

Let's imagine that CAP9 does get Guts, and is among the top 10 Pokemon in usage. It's near the beginning of the match, and you haven't had the time to scout the opponents team. It's your Blissey versus the opponents Latias.

In the standard metagame, Blissey wouldn't be too afraid of firing off a Toxic in the hope of crippling Latias for the rest of the match. But in a CAP metagame, one where there is a Guts user with Pursuit on the loose, she would be much less likely to do so. In short, CAP9 is stopping the secondary through mind games. It doesn't even have to be present as an active team member- the sheer risk of CAP9 switching in and getting a +1 attack boost is enough to deter people from using Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Will-o-wisp, and maybe more.

I think that Guts is a much better ability for this concept than the AMC. AMC reflects status (and other things) for a turn, and while that's cool, it doesn't do much to cripple many secondary users. Blissey has Natural cure; Heatran is immune to its Poison/Burn status; Breloom (if you are risky enough to switch in) doesn't get affected by its own Spore due to usually being Poisoned. AMC and Guts both stop the secondary in their own little ways, and I think both are needed to fully complete CAP9's purpose.

So, for those reasons, I voted Guts.
 
scampy said:
This is exactly why Guts is a good thing. Not Flame Orb abuse, but the opponent activating it for you.

Let's imagine that CAP9 does get Guts, and is among the top 10 Pokemon in usage. It's near the beginning of the match, and you haven't had the time to scout the opponents team. It's your Blissey versus the opponents Latias.

In the standard metagame, Blissey wouldn't be too afraid of firing off a Toxic in the hope of crippling Latias for the rest of the match. But in a CAP metagame, one where there is a Guts user with Pursuit on the loose, she would be much less likely to do so. In short, CAP9 is stopping the secondary through mind games. It doesn't even have to be present as an active team member- the sheer risk of CAP9 switching in and getting a +1 attack boost is enough to deter people from using Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Will-o-wisp, and maybe more.

I think that Guts is a much better ability for this concept than the AMC. AMC reflects status (and other things) for a turn, and while that's cool, it doesn't do much to cripple many secondary users. Blissey has Natural cure; Heatran is immune to its Poison/Burn status; Breloom (if you are risky enough to switch in) doesn't get affected by its own Spore due to usually being Poisoned. AMC and Guts both stop the secondary in their own little ways, and I think both are needed to fully complete CAP9's purpose.

So, for those reasons, I voted Guts.
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Scampy has outlined some excellent points which tell you why i voted Guts.
 
Guts

Seeing as we already have a good ability for defensive purposes, we can now turn our attetion to offensive purposes. I would wholeheartedly disagree with using another ability for another ability's sake, but AMC has quite a few exploitable holes in it and it should be important to provide an alternative. Guts and AMC together also strike the balance between offence and defence, both of which Deck Knight's spread should allow us to pull off.
 
I voted for No Secondary Ability, on the basis that Guts won't really accomplish anything that AMC doesn't already. There isn't really any learning potential here. If Poison Heal had made it to the poll, I might have supported it on the basis that it was sufficiently different.

Also, can people who are making claims that Guts is broken please do some actual calcs before making such a large statement? A positive nature, Guts-activated LO CAP9 actually drops short of a 2HKO on many bulkier Pokemon that *don't* resist its attacks. In addition, it will be losing a large amount of health every turn and Dark/Ground/Rock is very easy to switch around. Can someone explain to me how Guts CAP9, a Pokemon with potentially imperfect type coverage and the inability to break a large number of threats, will be broken over a Pokemon like Salamence? I'm for NSA not because Guts would be broken, but because it seems generally superfluous and I think that AMC without the possibility of another ability for mind-game purposes is powerful enough.
 
I voted No Second Ability

Auto Magic Coat already gives this Pokemon IMO everything it needs to counter secondary users. As far as I know, 95 Base Speed is faster than most common users of secondary affects, and not to poll jump, this means after the switch in, it can either use Taunt or Substitute (if we give it them) to completly stop the secondary affects. Giving it Guts completly nulifies the fact we gave it AMC. Guts means it becomes not only a status absorber (albiet only for the major 4) but also a major sweeper. With DK's spread: 133/122/72/71/71/95 it becomes a ridculusly bulky sweeper with Guts.

Overall, I honestly think it could become broken with Guts.
 
Stormkid5 said:
I voted No Second Ability

Auto Magic Coat already gives this Pokemon IMO everything it needs to counter secondary users. As far as I know, 95 Base Speed is faster than most common users of secondary affects, and not to poll jump, this means after the switch in, it can either use Taunt or Substitute (if we give it them) to completly stop the secondary affects. Giving it Guts completly nulifies the fact we gave it AMC. Guts means it becomes not only a status absorber (albiet only for the major 4) but also a major sweeper. With DK's spread: 133/122/72/71/71/95 it becomes a ridculusly bulky sweeper with Guts.

Overall, I honestly think it could become broken with Guts.
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Because you know, pokemon that derive most of their bulk from HP greatly enjoy losing 12.5% of it every turn whether their attack succeeds or not.

Honestly, the fact Milotic in UU fails when inflicted with Burn because it loses its per-turn recovery is indication enough of how vastly overrated "bulk" of any kind is with pokemon with Status-activated abilitieis. Nevermind that if you're running a sweeper set, you are not that bulky, as you've not invested in defenses.

Please propose to me a set which would allow this to "bulky everything" with Flame-Orb activated Guts, including EVs. You will find that no matter what you do, you will either sorely miss that 12.5% HP per turn, or you are swiftly KO'd due to lack of defensive investment. This is obvious to anyone who isn't justifying their fears by Base Stats and theorymon alone. "OMG Snorlax has Huge HP and SpD! With Curse it will bulky everything!"

Now is Snorlax effective at using the Curse set? Yes. But it didn't come anywhere near to breaking the game, now with all the boosting items/moves in DP.
 
I voted Guts.

Look at it like this: AMC is the defensive choice, while Guts is the offensive option. This gives us a choice on whether to handle secondary move users offensively or defensively. Like Stratagem, who had Levitate as the defensive option and Technician as the offensive option. These two abilities allow a lot of flexibility, so CaP9 can fit into more teams to do it's job.
 
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