CaP Prevos - Necturine Movepool Discussion

[DHR-107]

Hey all!

Let's keep the CaP Prevo train moving with some discussions on updating Necturine's movepool! Necturna got access to a large variety of new moves with its updates:

Necturna - Complete - [Add Leech Seed, Magical Leaf, Grassy Terrain, Night Shade, Phantom Force, Ominous Wind, Seed Bomb, Spite, Worry Seed, Leech Life, Sleep Talk, Dark Pulse] - CAP Updates: Necturna Discussion & Winning Movepool

Which gives us a lot of scope to add a number of moves to Necturine's movepool! It's currently rather small as it was one of the first Gen 5 Pokemon to be created.

Name: Necturine
Typing: Grass / Ghost
Abilities: Anticipation / Telepathy
Stats: 49 / 55 / 60 / 50 / 75 / 51
Evolves Via: Level Up at Level 31
Height: 0.3 m (1' 00")
Weight: 1.8 kg (4 lbs)

The above is what was decided previously for Necturine. Below is its old movepool:

Hide

Level Up

Level Move
0 Leer
0 Vine Whip
7 Ominous Wind
13 Shadow Sneak
19 Toxic Spikes
19 Will-O-Wisp
25 Hex
31 Natural Gift
37 Pain Split
44 Shadow Ball
50 Power Whip

TM Moves

TM Move
TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM17 Protect
TM19 Telekinesis
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM66 Payback
TM70 Flash
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute

HM01 Cut

EGG Moves

Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Sketch

And here is Necturna's new movepool, Please click the link above for snake_rattler's reasoning:

Level Up Movepool

- Thunder Fang
- Poison Fang
- Super Fang
- Leer
- Vine Whip
Evolve: Horn Leech
6 Shadow Sneak
12 Leech Seed
17 Magical Leaf
23 Toxic Spikes
23 Will-O-Wisp
28 Hex
34 Grassy Terrain
39 Night Shade
45 Pain Split
50 Shadow Ball
56 Power Whip
61 Phantom Force

Egg Moves

Curse
Gravity
Giga Drain
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Ominous Wind (Ninetales, Farfetch'd, Shiftry, Tropius)
Sketch

Tutor Moves

Giga Drain
Gravity
Pain Split
Seed Bomb
Snore
Spite
Super Fang
Worry Seed

TM List

TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM28 Leech Life
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

Transfer Only

Cut (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM01)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Telekinesis (Gen 5 TM19)
Flash (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM 70)

Please remember that this is a reductive process and new moves cannot be added unless they are already in Necturna's movepool! Necturine will be under the same rules as its evolution regarding access to Sketch (meaning it can only have one sketched move at any time).

 

[Menshay]

Ominous Wind is not techincally a new move as it is part of Necturna's old movepool.
Just a couple comments about the additions:
- Magical Leaf, Seed Bomb, Dark Pulse and I guess Night Shade are all both widespread and outclassed, so they should not pose any problem.
- Sleep Talk, Snore, Confide and Secret Power are all universal and should be kept
- Pretty sure no-one uses Spite and Worry Seed competitively. I guess this also applies to Grassy Terrain as a move.
This leaves Leech Seed, Phantom Force and Leech Life as potentially competitive options. Flavour-wise Leech Seed fits, Phantom Force does too though several cases restrict it to final forms, and Leech Seed might or might not fit considering Necturine's lack of Necturna's maws.

 

[G-Luke]

Final Submission

Level Up

- Leer
- Vine Whip
4 Shadow Sneak
8 Leech Seed
11 Magical Leaf
15 Toxic Spikes
15 Will O Wisp
18 Hex
22 Grassy Terrain
26 Night Shade
29 Natural Gift
34 Pain Split
39 Seed Bomb
43 Shadow Ball
50 Power Whip
56 Phantom Force

TM/HM List

TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM28 Leech Life
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

Egg Moves

Curse
Gravity
Giga Drain
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Ominous Wind (Ninetales, Farfetch'd, Shiftry, Tropius)
Sketch

Tutor Moves

Giga Drain
Gravity
Pain Split
Seed Bomb
Snore
Spite
Telekinesis
Worry Seed

Transfer Only

Cut (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM01)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Flash (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM 70)

I made the level up movepool mostly similar to Necturna's, but added a few notable stuff. I added Seed Bomb to its level up movepool as I felt Necturine lacked much damaging Grass typed attacks, and seeing that Nec is based on a fruit, it makes sense for it to drop seeds. Other than that, there isn't much that i added that has not already been said.

 

[Y Parahax]

WIP

Level Up

- Leer
- Vine Whip
3 Spite
7 Ominous Wind
10 Leech Seed
13 Shadow Sneak
15 Magical Leaf
18 Toxic Spikes
18 Will-O-Wisp
22 Hex
26 Natural Gift
31 Grassy Terrain
35 Night Shade
37 Pain Split
44 Shadow Ball
50 Power Whip

TM

Haven't started working on this yet. Will do tomorrow.

Egg

Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Sketch

Move Tutor

Giga Drain
Gravity
Pain Split
Seed Bomb
Worry Seed
Spite
Snore

 

[snake]

Ominous Wind is not techincally a new move as it is part of Necturna's old movepool.
Just a couple comments about the additions:
- Magical Leaf, Seed Bomb, Dark Pulse and I guess Night Shade are all both widespread and outclassed, so they should not pose any problem.
- Sleep Talk, Snore, Confide and Secret Power are all universal and should be kept
- Pretty sure no-one uses Spite and Worry Seed competitively. I guess this also applies to Grassy Terrain as a move.
This leaves Leech Seed, Phantom Force and Leech Life as potentially competitive options. Flavour-wise Leech Seed fits, Phantom Force does too though several cases restrict it to final forms, and Leech Seed might or might not fit considering Necturine's lack of Necturna's maws.

Generally Leech Seed is not viable in LC, as the small HP values don't provide much recovery.

 

[Menshay]

Final Submission

Level-up

- Leer
- Vine Whip
6 Shadow Sneak
12 Leech Seed
17 Magical Leaf
23 Toxic Spikes
23 Will-O-Wisp
28 Hex
31 Natural Gift
36 Night Shade
41 Pain Split
46 Shadow Ball
51 Power Whip
56 Phantom Force

- Leech Seed, Magical Leaf and Night Shade have little relevance and fit Necturine's flavour, so they are kept.
- Necturine evolves at level 31, so all levels before it are kept unchanged. Necturna's level-up movepool does not feature evolution-induced delays, so, as base Pokémon rarely learn moves up to very late levels, I have decided to break the 5-6 pattern so that moves after evolution are delayed by 3-3-4-4-5-5 levels (assuming the below point).
- Grassy Terrain was removed. It can be considered fitting and for most Grass-types it spans the entire evolution line, but considering its position in Necturna's new movepool when compared to Necturine's I decided to treat it as a more "mystical" replacement to Natural Gift in order to avoid breaking the level-up pattern too much.
- Phantom Force is kept. While for most Ghost-type lines which learn it by level it tends to be a last, final evolution-exclusive move whis rule is not universal considering Shuppet and - most relevantly - Phantump, plus it gives Necturine a strong, albeit possibly not that reliable, Ghost-type STAB. I can reconsider this if competitive problems emerge, though.

Egg moves

Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Ominous Wind
Sketch

Like with Necturna, Ominous Wind has been moved here.

Tutors

Giga Drain
Gravity
Pain Split
Seed Bomb
Snore
Spite
Telekinesis
Worry Seed

- All moves here are either repeats, universal, outclassed or have little to no competitive relevance.
- Super Fang is removed due to Necturine's lack of apparent maws.
- Telekinesis is currently not on Necturna's tutor movepool, which was revamped before Ultra Sun/Moon brought the move back, but it is available as a G5 TM so having it shoudn't pose a problem.

TMs

TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM28 Leech Life
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM66 Payback
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

- Leech Life stays, as a precursor to other draining and fang-based moves Necturna gets; while Necturine lacks true fangs it certainly possesses enough pointy bits, and cases like Ribombee and Lurantis show that a fanged mouth is not a requirement. Note also that in most cases it is available to all members of an evolutionary line.
- Nature Power stays too as a very common move for Grass-types of all stages, unless Tri Attack is deemed overpowered for some reason.
- Sleep Talk is universal, Confide is universal and useless, Dark Pulse is fitting and outclassed by Ghost STAB.

Transfer-only

Cut (HM01)
Flash (G5 TM70)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)

Secret Power is universal. Note that Telekinesis has been moved to tutors.

 

[porg_111]

Final Submission

Level-up

-Leer
-Vine Whip
5 Shadow Sneak
9 Leech Seed
13 Magical Leaf
18 Toxic Spikes
18 Will-O-Wisp
22 Hex
26 Natural Gift
31 Grassy Terrain
35 Night Shade
39 Pain Split
44 Shadow Ball
48 Power Whip
52 Phantom Force

Egg

Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Ominous Wind
Sketch

TMs

TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM28 Leech Life
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

Tutors

Giga Drain
Gravity
Pain Split
Seed Bomb
Snore
Spite
Telekinesis
Worry Seed

Transfer-only

Cut (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM01)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Flash (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM 70)

Edit: Removed Payback

 

[DHR-107]

Throwing down a 24 hour warning Let's get all this tidied up and ready to go!