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CaP Revision - Syclant: Part 3: Movepool Final Vote
- Thread starter TAY
- Start date
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Prepare to see a lot of "I agree with" statements. Also quantify "competitive reasoning" unless it's really loose definition, it'll be hard to know what passes and what doesn't and could really decrease the democratic part of CaP.
Also, shouldn't this discussion be in a policy review thread instead of this particular topic?
Until the results of this poll have been tallied its hard to say whether noob voting has made an impact on this Scylant revision.
I see alot of voter being very hard on Syclant and removing alot of moves when the only things that are currently staples on its movesets on the server are Tail Glow and Focus Blast which does beg the question how many voters have ever been on the server.
Perhaps people should have to state their server username when voting? I don't know if this means their usage can be checked or not?
A CAP senate sounds a bit elitist to me - unless there is an obvious Large influence of voters who have no clue what they're voting for it seems a bit premature. Yes it's worrying this one guy who justified all his voting choices via flavour but it's just one guy, who's to say the motivations of the other voters.
The last time I can remember a 'noob' vote swinging a poll was the Poison typing for Fidgit and that hardly ruined the whole CAP4 did it?
Lets get some concrete evidence that 'noobs are ruining the revision process' before we scrap the whole thing and start a CAP senate or whatever.
This post isn't meant to be discussing policy review I'm just saying let's stay on track and carry on with the revision unless it becomes clear the process has been entirely derailed by noobs.
Maybe the best way would be to say you have to have more than X rating on the CaP ladder?
Smogon does it for the suspect tests and it would cut out the total flavour arguments while still keeping the democratic spirit (anyone can vote, they just have to put a little work into it.).
But for this one we are kinda too far to change the rules.
Mid process changes are been conclusively proved to be FAR more trouble than they are worth...
I think we should stick by the rules in the OP even if that means counting some dumb votes.
Smogon does it for the suspect tests and it would cut out the total flavour arguments while still keeping the democratic spirit (anyone can vote, they just have to put a little work into it.).
But for this one we are kinda too far to change the rules.
Mid process changes are been conclusively proved to be FAR more trouble than they are worth...
I think we should stick by the rules in the OP even if that means counting some dumb votes.
No, I wouldn't want to change the rules for this particular thread.
I like some of the suggestions here, but I how the heck do we implement them?
X rating or a server name, whatever...
Obviously will not work for click polls, we need an an admin to make a special usergroup and maybe a subforum for X rating and perhaps server name as well.
Sure then why not bold votes? Well, now whoever made the topic off-hand needs to instantaneously know someone's ladder rating or have to look up/know server names...yeah highly implementable guys...and I don't think Doug or the other people who moderate this forum want to give out more infractions or delete even more posts than they already do. They're not happy when they have to use their moderator powers.
CaP senate (or whatever it'll be called) is probably a lot more implementable than either of those. Though I don't necessarily like that unlike the other two.
I like some of the suggestions here, but I how the heck do we implement them?
X rating or a server name, whatever...
Obviously will not work for click polls, we need an an admin to make a special usergroup and maybe a subforum for X rating and perhaps server name as well.
Sure then why not bold votes? Well, now whoever made the topic off-hand needs to instantaneously know someone's ladder rating or have to look up/know server names...yeah highly implementable guys...and I don't think Doug or the other people who moderate this forum want to give out more infractions or delete even more posts than they already do. They're not happy when they have to use their moderator powers.
CaP senate (or whatever it'll be called) is probably a lot more implementable than either of those. Though I don't necessarily like that unlike the other two.
Even if I weren't worried about how suggestions like these would be implemented, I'm still curious about how people would respond to this. It's not like there is absolutely no evidence (duh), the question, I pose might be, how much evidence.
Its not as hard as you think Captain, all you do is post this in the OP:
"Only players with a rating of X or higher at the time that this poll ends will have their vote counted. Please do not vote until your rating is above X and maintain it for the duration of the vote. Anyone else may discuss the proposition."
And make it a bold vote.
Then when it comes to the end of the vote you simply log onto the server and use /record to check each person who voted. The person who started the topic could ask for help to make it even more quick and easy.
Its a little complicated but I am sure you all agree that it would be good to have some check as to the knowledge of the metagame of the people who vote on revision.
"Only players with a rating of X or higher at the time that this poll ends will have their vote counted. Please do not vote until your rating is above X and maintain it for the duration of the vote. Anyone else may discuss the proposition."
And make it a bold vote.
Then when it comes to the end of the vote you simply log onto the server and use /record to check each person who voted. The person who started the topic could ask for help to make it even more quick and easy.
Its a little complicated but I am sure you all agree that it would be good to have some check as to the knowledge of the metagame of the people who vote on revision.
Its meant to be elitist, for certain things. Obviously everyone will be able to fully participate and vote in CAP, and non-members will be able to discuss PR threads and Revision threads and make suggestions, but like the suspect test there should be a set amount of people who have shown they know the CAP metagame and know what they're talking about. Its basically like the suspect test, except that rating isn't that good an indicator here, since not many people play the CAP metagame to begin with.
CAP 5 Final Art Poll. EVO 1 Pokemon Poll. Need I go on?
There are others that have never been on the server and have almost no clue what the Pokemon do in battle, which skews results.
Well TAY said the vote was over, so I don't see what the problem is. There is no "track" once the vote is over. I will be making a PR thread about the CAP Senate, The CAP Revision Process, The Prevos, and maybe a couple others once Doug gets his "Big 7" PR threads up. This is all going to be in about a day or two btw.
Focus Blast - The removal of this would allow Bronzong to be a great counter to the standard Syclant that is always running around on the server, and it would help Zong because it's usage has decreased dramatically since the introduction of the Platinum metagame.
Tail Glow - Very rare that a Tail Glow sweep actually occurs, although if it does then it must be because the opponent couldn't take advantage of Syclants paper defenses or because the user was efficient. Nothing wrong with this competitively.
Stone Edge - With this kind of movepool? This extremely powerful attack will almost never makes its way to a movepool, so there is no point in letting it pack a great move that no one uses.
Rock Slide - Even if we take away Stone Edge, Syclant has almost no way of dealing with Fire types effectively outside of Hidden Power, Earth Power and Water Pulse, and this is why Rock Slide is here in order to make sure it has sufficient options.
Swords Dance - Same as Tail Glow
Superpower - Very effective on a mixed sweeper set but how many Pokemon outside of Deoxys has this along with such stats? Overpowered in my opinion, and once again would make Bronzong an effective counter.
Brick Break - Just like with Stone Edge and Rock Slide, we want to tone it down but we don't want to make it hopeless.
Just my two cents on how these movepool changes would be effective competitively from someone who deals with Syclant very regularly on the CaP server.
Tail Glow - Very rare that a Tail Glow sweep actually occurs, although if it does then it must be because the opponent couldn't take advantage of Syclants paper defenses or because the user was efficient. Nothing wrong with this competitively.
Stone Edge - With this kind of movepool? This extremely powerful attack will almost never makes its way to a movepool, so there is no point in letting it pack a great move that no one uses.
Rock Slide - Even if we take away Stone Edge, Syclant has almost no way of dealing with Fire types effectively outside of Hidden Power, Earth Power and Water Pulse, and this is why Rock Slide is here in order to make sure it has sufficient options.
Swords Dance - Same as Tail Glow
Superpower - Very effective on a mixed sweeper set but how many Pokemon outside of Deoxys has this along with such stats? Overpowered in my opinion, and once again would make Bronzong an effective counter.
Brick Break - Just like with Stone Edge and Rock Slide, we want to tone it down but we don't want to make it hopeless.
Just my two cents on how these movepool changes would be effective competitively from someone who deals with Syclant very regularly on the CaP server.
Yes.
This is a voting thread, not a general discussion about revision policy. Post a vote, or don't post at all.
Ok this has gone on long enough.
Next thread will be up shortly.
All votes were counted.
Voters: 35
Votes needed to remove: 18
Focus Blast: 28
Tail Glow: 10
Stone Edge: 20
Rock Slide: 14
Swords Dance: 15
Superpower: 18
Brick Break: 3
Focus Blast, Stone Edge and Superpower will not be on Syclant's revised movepool.
The flavour changes and complete movepool will be discussed in the next thread.
Next thread will be up shortly.
All votes were counted.
Voters: 35
Votes needed to remove: 18
Focus Blast: 28
Tail Glow: 10
Stone Edge: 20
Rock Slide: 14
Swords Dance: 15
Superpower: 18
Brick Break: 3
Focus Blast, Stone Edge and Superpower will not be on Syclant's revised movepool.
The flavour changes and complete movepool will be discussed in the next thread.
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