CAP Updates: Revenankh Discussion (Complete)

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KrazyCake

KrazyCake


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Oh, Great Revenakh I summon thee!​
Why hath thou awoken me from my slumber?
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I've summoned you because your people need to be updated, and only you, their pharaoh can allow it!

Why would I, the most wondrous Revenakh needeth an update? Me and mine own people art perfect the way we are!
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Are you sure about that? Because your people are but mere peasants in the eyes of many people, they're constantly threatened by many of the new Pokemon, your people may have been great a long time ago but times have changed a new elite has risen and they rule with an iron fist. Your English is also very outdated.
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Hmm, I'll allow it, but on one condition, make my people most wondrous again!​

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OUT THE TOMB!

Hello and welcome to the Update and Discussion thread for everyone's favorite mummy Revenakh, screw you Cofagrigus! So pack your bags and read your books as we're taking a flight to ancient Egypt! But first, some history...

Revenakh was the 2nd CAP to ever be created meaning it was one of the few CAPs that didn't actually have a concept, so they ended up making it a bulky bulk up user, try to say that three times fast Revenakh was really good for its time running a multitude of different sets, one of them even utilised the move Nasty Plot, now that really is nasty. But alas, poor Revenankh was heavily damaged by the Gen 5 power creep and the introduction of Tomohawk, but it managed to stay a fairly strong Pokemon. The thing that really hurt it was Gen 6 and the introduction of the dreaded Fairy Types the dragon slayers and bringers of death, things like Clefable became S rank and Revenakh now had an extra weakness with no way to defend against it. And if that wasn't enough in came Gen 7 to seal the deal with its new Pokemon, things like Tapu Lele, Celesteela, Toxapex and Magearna rose up through the ranks knocking down Revenakh ever further not to mention the old Pokemon who could now counter rev with Z moves.
Did you know that our lovely Revenakh was almost an evolution of an existing Pokemon, we really dodged a bullet there!

Revenakh was almost a grass type, if it was we might not have had the amazing beast that is Pyroak.
Ok with all that gloom n doom out of the way let's talk about what it can do well right now!

AN OVERVIEW!

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Revenakh
Shed Skin/Air Lock

HP: 90
Atk: 105
Def: 95
SpA: 65
SpD: 110
Spe: 65

Complete Movepool

Gen 7 Pros:
  • Excellent STAB coverage
  • Decent bulk
  • Nice attack stat
  • Has an amazing design
  • Good meme fuel
  • cbrevan cbrevan

Gen 7 Cons:
  • Low speed
  • Can't fight back against fairies
  • Walled by most top tier Pokemon
  • Killed by most top tier Pokemon
  • Somewhat disappointing abilities
  • Underwhelming offenses after boosting with Bulk Up and sad offenses with Choice Band
  • Can't make use of its amazing typing due to not having that many good STAB moves
  • Extra toilet paper

Ok so with that out of the way I'm going to ask you guys a few questions:
  1. What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?
  2. What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?
  3. What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.
  4. In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?

Also something I'd like but no one needs to actually do, is to post battle replay in your responses k thx
 
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1.) What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?I think that revenankh is struggling greatly in our meta due to not having any speed and being weak to fairy and psychic. It's typing just doesn't encourage a bulky attacker especially in a meta that doesn't encourage slow attackers as well. Right now it doesn't really have a role, it can use choice band or bulk up but struggles do pull off either set due to aforementioned reasons.

2.) What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?
We have to give revenankh something to make up for being piss slow in this fast paced meta. While I was reading the revenankh process thread it looks like people wanted reven to be a "Slow Bulky Attacker" however, being slow isn't exactly a good trait to work with in this meta.

3.) What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.
No matter what we do, Tapu Lele will always counter us and we have to kinda just deal with that. There is also no remedying revenankh's speed, especially if we want to continue with what it was originally intended to actually be. Another problem revenankh has is damage output, which is something we actually can fix. This can be done through abilities such as Adaptability or Technician, I'm not really sure if I support these abilities 100% if at all.

4.) In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?
I'm not sure, it really depends on where we want to take Revenankh.
 
What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?

It's...not great. Revenankh is truly struggling in the Generation 7 metagame. It can't run its past sets, like Bulk Up + Rest, nearly as well and is failing to establish itself within the metagame. It doesn't hit very hard, it has decent bulk but doesn't have the strength to combat top attackers, and it's weak to a lot of common attacking types (Fairy, Flying, Psychic). Currently, its best sets are its Choice Band set (boosting its Attack) and its Glare set (because Glare is a good move). There's a ton of reasons to not use Revenankh right now, which can be fixed through these updates.

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What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?

It's a good question. Unlike some other CAPs getting updates, I don't think it's possible to drop its past conceptual framework and apply its current role to the direction we should take. Rather, I think we should stick with the most basic principle of Revenankh: attacker who uses (near) unresisted coverage. It lets us keep Revenankh's role in the metagame open while giving us a direction of what to improve. With that in place, we should figure out the best ways of improving and supporting its good offensive typing through its ability and movepool.

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What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.

It struggles with a lot. I don't think we can do anything about things like Tapu Lele, who shuts down Shadow Sneak and hits for a OHKO. Tomohawk can't really be dealt with, especially HazeHawk. STAB Flying moves hurt a lot, especially Z-moves. Intimidate really limits its offensive capabilities. I could go on, but suffice it to say, there's a lot.

That said, I wouldn't be overly concerned with having a good deal of things beat Revenankh. That's a result of its typing and naturally slow Speed. What I'd focus on is on what it /can/ beat (Pheromosa, Buzzwole, Fighting-weak Special Attackers like Heatran, etc.), and giving it tools to make it more threatening to switch into overall.

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In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?

Revenankh is one of the few, if not the only, CAP Pokemon I can see getting an ability that would boost its offensive damage output outright. It heavily relies on its unresisted coverage, so either an ability that boosts those attacks or an ability that can help compliment its coverage would be ideal.

Adaptability comes to mind. This lets Revenankh focus on its STAB moves while giving it a much needed power boost. It's very pro-concept that way, and builds upon an intended strength.
 
What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?

Revenankh is a slow set-up sweeper with great priority. So Rev is basically reliant on the same basic traits that make Mega-Scizor, Azumarill, and Crawdaunt good Pokemon. Now I hear you asking "But Mr. Cruncher, if Rev is like Mega-Scizor, Azumarill, and Crawduant, why are they so good while Rev is so ridiculously awful?". Well, those three mons all have incredible damage output pre-boost thanks to their abilities (Technician, Huge Power, and Adaptability, respectively), while our man Rev has basically no ability to speak of. In addition, while Sciz and Daunt are getting +2s off Swords Dance and Azu is getting +maxes on Belly Drum, Rev has to get its boosts one at a time from Bulk Up. To add insult to injury, the buff to Defense it gets from Bulk Up doesn't really keep it from getting decimated by Physical beaters. Azumarill and Mega-Scizor also benefit from not having to run a boosting set thanks to all-around good stats and movepools, whereas Revenankh and Crawdaunt have bad movepools and insufficient stats. That being said, Revenankh wants to be CAPs Crawdaunt, but with nothing to make it worth using as a Crawdaunt.

What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?

Firstly, Revenankh needs an actual ability. Air Lock is simply not competitively viable and Shed Skin is only an asset when you have stats that are through the roof, which Revenahnk simply doesn't have. Secondly, it needs an improvement to its boosting capabilities. Swords Dance is simply more where Rev wants to be, given that his typing makes him bad at taking physical attacks anyway, and he really does need to get good faster. Finally, he needs some coverage to punch through insanely bulky mons that could try to wall him, like Toxapex. Also, I believe Revenankh has some set illegalities that need to be removed.

What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.

Basically the entire concept of Psychic Terrain completely shuts this mon down. Shadow Sneak is its main Ghost STAB, which means that Rev won't be useful for 5 turns after Lele comes in, even if it switches out immediately afterwards. Rev probably should get one of Shadow Bone or Spirit Shackles to remedy this situation, probably the former. Rev can't touch Hawk at all, which isn't a bad thing, but I think it should at least have a super-effective move to hit it with so that it can get at least some chip before its forced out.

In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?

Any of Technician, Adaptability, Analytic, or Sheer Force could patch up Rev's terrible damage output, which is basically the problem with the mon. Technician and Adaptability seem the most appealing, but any of the four will do the job.
 
NumberCruncher Revenankh doesn't really benefit from Sheer Force due to its STABs' lack of secondary effects; Shadow Sneak and Drain Punch are used for their primary effects, such as additional priority or semi-reliable recovery, respectively.

I'm for either Adaptability or Technician because Air Lock is useless (why wasn't it Cloud Nine, which does the exact same thing?), and Shed Skin is quite situational. Shadow Bone would help it become more powerful after the updates, since priority attacks are blocked by the mere presence of Tapu Lele's automatic Psychic Terrain.

Also, Revenankh has access to Ice Punch, which hits Tomohawk super effectively.
 
While Revenankh loses badly to numerous major threats in the metagame, especially the many Fairy types and Tomohawk, it does still have very good matchups against a few notable threats that can be hard to counter, like Pheromosa. But for most teams, Revenankh will be far too much of a momentum-suck to ever use.

I think the only way to remotely salvage Revenankh is to make it useful to a playstyle that doesn't care about losing momentum as much - stall. It'll be hard to make Revenankh useful even there, since it's going to be worse than Mega Sab in pretty much every future imaginable, and you're not gonna run 2 Fairy weak mons on the same stall team too often... But I think that's still the right way to go.

Cofagrigus stall has been seen before in OU metagames, so I don't see why versions couldn't work out with Revenankh with the right modifications.

Like for example, the mon most generally used to counter Pheromosa on most stall teams is Toxapex. Toxapex has the slight drawback of being trappable by Dugtrio (might be irrelevant at some point lol... it did just barely survive a ban). If Revenankh could serve the role of Pheromosa counter + some other useful things, then versions of Stall with Revenankh + X (maybe mega venu?) over Toxapex + Mega Sab might exist.

So I don't think the way to go with Ability is offensive. It would take A LOT to fix Revenankh's momentum suck in that regard. I think it would be to go with a very strong and beneficial to stall ability.
 
What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?

Right now Revenankh is outclassed in its role as a bulky attacker because it simply does not have enough offensive presence. This is mostly due to the restraints we put on Revenankh way back in Gen 4, where its strongest repeatable Fighting STAB is Hammer Arm and it doesn't even have Shadow Claw for Ghost STAB. Right now Bulky Attacker is sort of all Rev can do, even with a somewhat unique movepool.

(Fun fact: Guess what +1 Adamant Close Combat, Never-Ending Nightmare (Phantom Force), and Ice Punch OHKO in OU: Everything except Buzzwole, Unaware Clefable, Mandibuzz, Physically Defensive Skarm, Multiscale DNite, and Alolan Muk.)

What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?

I've got a different take on this than most people. In addition to the aforementioned offensive Bulk Up set, Revenankh has always fared extremely well on Sand teams. It's Ghost typing without being weak to Pursuit allowed it to take Fighting attacks for Tyranitar and Excadrill all day long, its Shed Skin and high SpD allowed it to tank Scalds with little fear of burns, it could ShedRest damage away anyway, and Power Whip gave Revenankh a way to go on the offensive aginst Bulky Waters.

Gen VII introduced some tools that would make a Sand support Revenankh even more effective, though they are a bit unorthodox. Shore Up for example is currently learned only by the Sandygast line, but it heals 2/3rds HP in Sandstorm and 50% HP under other conditions. Revenankh would indeed like healing a little more reliable than ShedRest or Moonlight. Additionally, since all the Tapus are Fairy types every single one of them bar Tapu Fini despises Excadrill, which is an excellent Rev partner. With no investment at all, Rev takes 52-63% from Tapu Fini's Moonblast. Standard BU Rev (252/252 Careful) only takes 34.8-41.1% from MB. Long story short Rev can easily be EV's to laugh at Fini.


What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.

Damage output. This can mostly be addressed through move updates.

In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?

So I'll be the odd one here again and say Sand Rush. Tapu Lele is a pretty big problem for Rev, but it's also weak to Ghost moves. It does take a Jolly Rev at the moment to hit the 238 Spe necessary to outrun Scarf Lele, but once there LO Shadow Punch handily OHKOs Lele. (Stronger Ghost STABs like Shadow Bone would give Rev more leeway to up its bulk.) Oh, and 252 Atk +1 Jolly LO Power Whip OHKO's Fini 96% of the time too. Yeah, Rev's pretty good on Sand.
 
What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?
Revenankh struggle to find a place is the current meta, because it's outclassed as a bulky setupper by Tapu Bulu, but even without it,
Also its best ability, Shed Skin, is luck based and this doesn't help it.

What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?
A more useful ability and/or Sword Dance can help him to setup more easily or to threat more pokèmon.

What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.
Revenankh can't setup easily even because:
- it's slow, and being slow in a very fast meta is a problem
- its typing is not good defensively talking, because there are faires and Knock Off

In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?
If we want to support it offensively, Analytic can be a good idea because it can do a good damage even if the opponent switch out.
Defensively, Filter can help it to boost itself more easily.
 
What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?
At the moment, it is fair to say that Revenankh is not excelling. The two sets that have been used in the past are a slow-boosting Bulk Up set or a wallbreaking Choice Band set. Though its typing grants it good neutral coverage with it's STABs, it also leaves it vulnerable to some of the most common attacking types - one of which, the Fairy-type, didn't even exist during Revenankh's project. In addition, it has a lacklustre offensive presence due to a sub-par attack stat for an offensive Pokemon and poor STAB moves (either through low BP or counter-productive side-effects). As other have rightly said, this leaves it unable to function as either a slow set-up sweeper or a bulky attacker.

What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?
The first thing that comes to mind is giving Revenankh a tool to deal with Fairy-types. Perhaps giving Revenankh a move such as Poison Jab or Gunk Shot would mean that slower Fairy-Types at least are no longer hard stops to almost any Revenankh set. The main question here, I think, is what role Revenankh should fill. Since it was built without a concept, there is less to go on here. Taking the two main set from previous generations, I think that the choice is between improving Revenankh's defensive capabilities so it can set up more easily or improving it's immediate damage output so it functions better as a bulky attacker. Since its typing is the main factor holding Revenankh back in terms of set-up opportunities, I think it would be fruitless to try and improve this aspect through move and ability updates. A bulky attacker is still a role used by many teams - this aspect of Revenankh is comparable to Pokemon like Choice Band Tyranitar, which itself has weaknesses to common attacking types like Fighting, Fairy and Ground. The one thing that Revenankh lacks to become a Tyranitar-like attacker is power. Giving Revenankh improved STAB options like Shadow Bone and Close Combat would help to increase its damage output, but I think that the main area for improvement is its abilities.

In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenankh the boost that it needs?
As others have mentioned and as I have explained, giving Revenankh more offensive abilities is certainly a way to increase its viability. I really like DarkSlay's idea of Adaptability carrying through with Revenankh's theme of STAB unresisted coverage, but I could see Technician or even Tough Claws working here too. These abilities would 'fix' Revenankh's somewhat poor base 105 attack whilst simultaneously being held in check by it. This would hopefully help Revenankh compete with powerhouses like Tyranitar that rely on their high base attack to deal big damage.

Another, completely different, option that I would like to bring up is Contrary. I'm really just throwing this out there; I wasn't confident enough to make a whole post about it so I'll just explain it briefly here. Contrary in conjunction with Superpower would allow Revenankh to retain its Bulk Up roots whilst becoming more effective and efficient in setting up - we all know how Contrary works. This is more of a mid-ground ability that focuses somewhere in between Revenankh's two current(ish) roles. Saying that, it would discourage Choice sets as being forced to switch often and loose your boosts is somewhat counter-productive. Theoretically, Contrary could also be run with Hammer Arm to give Revenankh boosts to its speed. Is Contrary broken on Revenankh? Personally, I'm not sure. It would still be still forced out by Pokemon like Tapu Lele, Tomohawk and Unaware Clefable (depending on coverage), loosing its boosts. However, it is an extremely potent ability and may be going too far for what Revenankh needs.
 
What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?

Revenankh falls into the same category as Voodoom, being it is either out performed by something else, or there is generally no reason to use it. As a whole, Revenankh does not perform well in the current meta either, as it just does not have the speed, or the power to deal with anything.

What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?

Revenankh will be best helped by several small tools to help remedy it's lack of speed, and low power due to the generations of power creep that it has gone through. What those tools are really depend on where Revenankh goes in terms of discussion, but I think a good enough start would be a 2nd competitive ability.

What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.

He currently struggles with fairies, as he has no way to deal with him due to A. being made before they were even a twinkle in Game Freak's eye, and B. Being built for a specific type of play that has not been favorable since their addition. The way the metagame has changed since his inception has also not been kind to him, the meta has gotten faster and stronger, with more and more powerful threats that overshadow/completely negate his role on a team. This could possibly be remedied with a new role, or new, more powerful stab moves and coverage. We will no matter what, however, have to find a way to work around Revenankh's base 65 speed.

In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?

Honestly in terms of abilities, I am going to be open minded about what people have to discuss. I have not personally decided on something I like just yet.
 
In this current meta, Rev is faring really poorly. It checks Phero... and that seems to be about it. It's severly outclassed as an attacker just by being weak in movepool and ability, as others have made clear. It's fairy bait, it's psychic bait- terrible weaknesses in gen 7 especially- it struggles setting up well, it struggles hitting hard, boost or no boost, there just isn't much to Rev that makes it particularly appealing or all that usable over any other bulky attacker. I can see a few different ways to go with Rev, however. The idea of a full stall mon as Bughouse suggested is interesting, although I don't imagine it'd see much use regardless due to Sableye being the single best mega for stall over any other. Going more defensive with Rev is an interesting possibility, focusing much more on the bulky aspect, or the opposite and take it far more offensive. Ability wise, it needs something to really benefit whatever direction we go in- Shed Skin and Air Lock do not cut it in the gen 7 meta.
 
What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?

I dont see it filling any roles whatsoever, and thanks to fairies everywhere and Lele being CAP's chief Psychic type, it generally struggles ALOT in the current metagame. However, its typing allows it have a glimmer of hope.

What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?

Easy. New abilities and better STAB moves. Shadow Punch being the strongest Ghost STAB available os simply unacceptable in this metagame, and its overreliance on BU boosts to deal damage can be easily exploited. Air Lock hasnt been good since Gen 6 and even during weather wars it was a bit underwhelming. Shed Skin is tooo situational for functional competitive use. What I believe we should do is examine fully just how potent Ghost/Fighting typing is - both offensively AND defensively - to unlock the full potencial of Rev.

What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.

As stated, it struggles heavily in the fast powerful metagame. A few common and amazing hard checks and counters include -

Fairy types - They hit it supereffectively and Rev has no options for damaging them. Clefable and Tapu Lele gets special mentions due to Unaware making Bulk Up boosts mute and Psychic Terrain + typing makes Lele the most effective counter to it.

Mega Metagross - Meta just runs through it tbh, no questions asked.

Strong Physical attackers - with only modest Physical bulk with usually no investment, Any strong supereffective physical hit brings instadeath to Rev, escially since it will most likely not move first.

Has to how to remedy it? Access to more power or suppereffective coverage could allow Rev to break pass Fairies, thpugh Lele still remains its worst foe. Megagross actually doesnt want to come in on a Banded EQ, but it still outspeeds, and nails it with super effective STAB. Meta even beats the BU set with correct prediction. For physical attackers, the addition of Will o Wisp could help it handle them, but I am not sure where it would fit. But a cheeky way to handle them would be defensive abilities, more below.

In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?

This is where embracing both sides of Rev's typing can come into play. While Adaptability is to me the best option for its new ability; I'd like to bring up a couple better defensive abilities that could let more bulky sets not be overshadowed.

Mummy - Yes. It was bound to be brought up, but Mummy actually gets Rev to set up on a good amount of physical attackers that rely on abilities to increase their damage output. Also, come on, its literally a mummy.

Filter - I saw someone bring up Filter earlier, and I also agree with it. Filter reduces the damage it could receive from mons seeking to eliminate it via super effective hits, and can eadily turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs, which can turn the tide of the match.

Poison Heal - We want Rev to be the ultimate BU abuser. I dont think any other ability better reflects this than Poison Heal. It alone solves issues that successful BU users must overcome in

A) It allows the BU user a way around harmful status aliments - Burn and Toxic are very harmful for BU users, as they permanently halve damage and put them on a short timer respectively. Poison Heal gives Rev an effective immunity to such status effects.

B) Allows the BU user to recover lost health til sweeping range is met - Thanks to being slow in nature, most BU users have to have a way to revover lost HP from taking attacks from faster opponents til its finished seetting up. Poison Heal allows for the easy regain of plenty of HP, as shown by Gliscor, who utilizes it effectively.
 
  1. What do you think of Revenankh in our current meta and what role does it fill right now?
Revenankh has basically no role to fill at the moment, unless perhaps you're using it to block Spin. You could probably block Mollux, and if you went full physical defense, blocking AV Colossoil isn't impossible. You aren't beating Tomohawk, but you block Spin better than Necturna. Pretty much anything else Rev tries to do will be tough. Glare is the best thing Revenankh does right now, but even then Malaconda does Glare spam way better.

People have mentioned Fairies as an issue, but Landorus-T and Tomohawk are actually just as nasty to Revenankh. To a lesser extent, the Psychic Mafia presents problems as well. Tapu Lele specifically obsoletes entirely the old BU Rev set. Your best bet right at the moment is probably something like Fighting move/Ice Punch/Glare/Moonlight. It's still wrecked by Tapu Fini, but at least you can hurt Flying types.
  1. What'll help Revenankh to do better this gen and what role should it fill?
Ghost is an awesome offensive type, and Revenankh has two of the better priority moves in Shadow Sneak and Mach Punch. I don't agree with NumberCruncher's conclusions, but I do agree that Revenankh resembles Scizor in some ways. Making Rev a priority specialist that can actually hurt Lele would be a good way to go.
  1. What does Revenankh currently struggle with and how could we remedy it.
Revenankh can't boost fast enough to do real damage, and lacks a good non-priority Ghost attack. That really hurts it against Lele. It's slow, but it's priority moves are weak unboosted. Swords Dance would help Revenankh a ton.
  1. In terms of abilities, what do you believe would give Revenakh the boost that it needs?
Technician would be the perfect fit for everything Revenankh needs. It would boost both priority attacks, Shadow Punch and Force Palm, instantly solving a bunch of different problems. Technician and Swords Dance would mean the world to Revenankh.
 
Personally, I'm not sold on an offensive Rev. In my opinion, its best, and frankly only, usable set at the moment is a specially bulky Glare set. Its Attack simply won't cut it as an offensive Pokemon, and I think the comparison to Scizor is silly.

Scizor is so good because it has freaking strong priority, a fantastic typing that lets it get in all the time, and U-Turn to get out. Things like Swords Dance and Roost and Defog also help, but it is the first three things that have allowed Scizor to be one of, if not the defining force in every metagame since Platinum. While it is true that Rev also has a solid typing, its typing is more inclined to threatening things, not switching in. Now, that is certainly not a bad thing, but it does make the Scizor comparison less relevant. More importantly though, Revenankh lacks both the other core things that make Scizor work. It doesn't pivot, and it is not strong. And Technician is not going to change that. Yeah, its priority would be 50% more powerful, but you are still looking at only 105 attack. Scizor is working with 130. That a big difference. Now, it is also important to take moves into account, and Rev, as a Fighting type, does have the potential for a much stronger reliable STAB, which can somewhat make up the difference. However, in the main niche people are talking about, priority spam, it will always find itself way behind. And lets not forget that the coverage it has is not that strong either.

Sure, we could give it Swords Dance. We could give it Technician. We could give it stronger STAB move. And we could give it stronger coverage moves for Tomohawk and others. But at that point the Pokemon we are looking at will fail to at all resemble Revenankh as it exists today. And that is not something that is desirable in the slightest.

So, rather than that, I think what we should be looking to do is expand on the thing it actually can do nowadays. Nothing likes switching into Glare, especially guys like Tapu Lele and Mega Metagross, and being one of the few Pokemon with access to reliable paralysis that hits everything, I think we should focus on expanding on its ability to use this from a defensive standpoint. An ability that helps make it fill that role better would could turn it from a passable check to a few key Pokemon to actually being a decent tank. Loathe as I am to support such a strong ability, I think that G-Luke's suggestion of Poison Heal is actually one of the best abilities suggested in this thread as it would actually allow Rev to be a solid Pokemon without completely changing who it is.
 
A much more generic ability to improve Revenankh's longevity without making it totally immune to burns and sleeps (which is a pretty exaggerated version of Shed Skin's goal) would be Regenerator.

Not sure which is "stronger" in an overall sense, but both are very good and would be good specifically on Revenankh.

Maybe Poison Heal is more in line with the "status absorber" side of Revenankh though.
 
I guess my issue with Poison Heal is this: It still takes the turn to activate Toxic Orb and therefore doesn't really fix Rev's chief problem, which is that it seems to be very RE-active for a mon with such great offensive typing. Now, Tapu Lele can't just go about switching into Rev, in fact in the Poison Heal example if Rev clicks Phantom Force, Tapu Lele now has to switch out because PF OHKOs it and Rev is protected that turn. But PF obviously has its own drawbacks, which are limited but since a strong Normal type that can wreck Rev just got reintroduced (Mega Pidgeot) it's probably wise not to be relying on PF too much.

Of course, any time you mention Poison Heal you have to mention that Sub+Protect stalling is going to happen with it, and Rev having STAB Focus Punch (and possibly Phantom Force) is going to make it INFURIATING to fight because of damage output and stalling options. EDIT: Yeah, we had a few custom gaves on the server. Poison Heal's issue isn't that it's non-viable, it's that it makes Rev a Spinblocking Gliscor without an exploitable 4x weakness. Also, STAB Focus Punch hurts.

Back when Rev was originally created, it was really, really hard to break BU + ShedRest. That metagame has been annihilated though, replaced by a metagame with 8 (UBs + Magearna) Pokemon that literally have a specialized Moxie style ability for any momentum they gain. Z-Moves have also permanently put to bed the idea you can just stall through opposing threats. Even Tomohawk can't deal with the fact Lando can wipe it out in an instant now if it switches in on Swords Dance.

So defensive play is really out of the running for Revenankh when it comes to Generation 7. However, I'll repeat an argument I actually used when I submitted Krilowatt's stat spread: Speed IS Defense. Especially when you're Revenankh and the game's premier special threat cannot tank your Ghost STAB. Now, it'd be better if Rev at +2 could outspeed Scarf Lele without a Jolly nature, but that's an option we've precluded ourselves from for good reason. Z-Sandstorm Rev, while hilarious, is probably not the best use, as Smooth Rock would confer the 8 turns you really want sand for.

That said, I want to reiterate just how good Sand Rush Rev with the appropriate healing support would be in Sand for both offensive and bulky sets. Rev can very effortlessly set Sand up because its typing dictates more specialized sorts of counters to traditional Sand setters. Rev already has an esoteric movepool beneficial for supporting Sand, and arguably while Glare is good, Will-O-Wisp could also be added to Rev's arsenal is dissuade Pokemon like Azumarill from coming in and wrecking Sand's Day. Rev's weaknesses synergize incredibly well with Tyranitar vs Psychic and Flying and Excadrill vs Fairy and Flying. Rev's Bulk Up combined with its STABs and Power Whip which it already has make it very, very effective an neutralizing Bulky Waters. Additionally, Choice Band Revenankh in Sand can outrun the entire unboosted metagame while attacking, 224 Spe EVs allow it to outrun Pheremosa for an easy KO. You hardly even need to be that fast if you have some other means around Psychic terrain blocking your priority from finishing they threats off.

And as I stated previously, Revenankh is extremely scary with Ghostinium-Z (Phantom Force is better as Z, Shadow Bone may be more practical) after a single Bulk Up because it has such great neutral coverage.
 
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Would Sand Rush also provide Revenankh an immunity to sand damage? Sand teams don't have many Pokémon outside of Rock, Ground, and Steel because they're immune thanks to their typing. If that Ability is given to the mummy, then sand could become even better, even though weather wars aren't as frequent as in Gen 5. Shadow Bone would be beneficial to what Revenankh needs to (counter?) kick Tapu Lele into next generation due to its lack of priority and higher base power.
 
Since I lasted posted there has been a few things discussed that I'd like to comment on.

Poison Heal is an extremely defensive ability that would give revenankh status immunity and a lot of recovery while it tries to set up. However, this doesn't eliminate the problems that Bulk Up already faces and encourages defensive sets on Revenankh such as subtoxic for stalling out it's opponent, which in turn could become extremely effective and have a negative impact. I believe that this is anti concept as Revenankh was meant to be offensive and this is still achievable in the current metagame, not only this but I think this strips Revenankh of it's identity as a Bulk Up user.

Sand Rush is an ability I initially discussed with KrazyCake, however I think sand rush has a lot of complications that come with it. First of all, it turns Revenankh into a Sand Abuser which is completely straying from Revenankh's identity. Not only this but Revenankh was intended to be slow (Well it was considered "medium" speed back then). I also don't think that Sand Rush address Revenankh's problems personally, as it still has problems dishing out damage from it's base 105 attack which is a poor offensive stat right now. This means that it would still struggle offensively, and although we can give it SD that would just push it further away from it's identity currently.

Why I prefer Adaptability to other offensive abilities such as Technician and Tough Claws:

Technician is a nice ability and provides Revenankh with the ability to overcome the difficulties of having a low speed, which is useful for certain threats such as pheromosa. Unfortunately this makes us even more susceptible to Tapu Lele which already beats us as now it even allows it's team to beat us due to Psychic Terrain completely nullifying priority moves, which leaves Revenankh back in the same spot as before vs any Tapu Lele team. This links to my next point that it's only useful for Revenankh's priority moves and not all of it's moves as a whole meaning it's damage output is still the same as it was before. Due to this I don't support Technician as much as it's damage output overall will not improve and thus Revenankh will see little improvement.

Tough Claws is for the most part a weaker Adaptability, only having a real advantage over Adaptability due to being able to boost Revenankh's coverage. However I begin to prefer Adaptability over Tough Claws because it plays on one of Revenankh's biggest strengths; it's typing. Ghost/Fighting is an extremely powerful stab combination and Adaptability really does help Revenankh abuse that. Not only this similar to Technician it boosts your Priority whilst boosting your OTHER moves providing you with a way of combating Revenankh's Speed and Attack problems.

I'd also like to defeat the notion that Revenankh is offensively-incapable with a list of calcs for anyone that's interested.
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 176-208 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 124-146 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 168-198 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 118-140 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 214-254 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 196-232 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 164-194 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mollux: 176-208 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 248-292 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-Wash: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 230-272 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Scizor-Mega: 192-228 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 232 HP / 180+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 144-170 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 188-222 (49 - 57.9%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I definitely think Adaptability Reven will be more than capable in this metagame.
 
Drapionswing said:
Tough Claws is for the most part a weaker Adaptability, only having a real advantage over Adaptability due to being able to boost Revenankh's coverage. However I begin to prefer Adaptability over Tough Claws because it plays on one of Revenankh's biggest strengths; it's typing. Ghost/Fighting is an extremely powerful stab combination and Adaptability really does help Revenankh abuse that. Not only this similar to Technician it boosts your Priority whilst boosting your OTHER moves providing you with a way of combating Revenankh's Speed and Attack problems.
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Uh...

Tough Claws
This Pokemon's contact moves have their power multiplied by 1.3.

Adaptability
This Pokemon's same-type attack bonus (STAB) is 2 instead of 1.5.

Both of Revenankh's STAB moves (and any potential extra STAB moves) are contact moves, so Tough Claws basically powers up its STAB moves to 1.98x, honestly making it the superior ability.

0 Atk Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 150-178 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Tough Claws Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 145-172 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

Do you want 2% stronger STAB attacks, or do you want 30% stronger attacks on your coverage moves? Tough Claws > Adaptability if we go this route.



Sand Rush is a really interesting idea, considering all of the factors that allow Revenankh to partner well with Tyranitar and Sand Rush Excadrill. While it would be a very big change in identity, I wouldn't be opposed to it because a lot of existing traits would allow it to act as a neat user of this ability (access to Power Whip, good bulk, STAB combination, good defensive synergy with existing Sand abusers). However, I don't want this to be a repeat of DD Pyroak either, so if we go down this route, we need to be extremely careful.
 
Drapionswing said:
I'd also like to defeat the notion that Revenankh is offensively-incapable with a list of calcs for anyone that's interested.
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 176-208 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 124-146 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 168-198 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 118-140 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 214-254 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 196-232 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 164-194 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mollux: 176-208 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 248-292 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-Wash: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 230-272 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Scizor-Mega: 192-228 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 232 HP / 180+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 144-170 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 188-222 (49 - 57.9%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I definitely think Adaptability Reven will be more than capable in this metagame.
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The fact that these calcs are all done with a choice band, and it can't even 2hko many mons that have reliable recovery is depressing and kind of detracts from your argument. I'd also like to ask why you wouldn't opt for stronger STABs to use in these calcs such as shadow bone.
 
Agile Turtle said:
The fact that these calcs are all done with a choice band, and it can't even 2hko many mons that have reliable recovery is depressing and kind of detracts from your argument. I'd also like to ask why you wouldn't opt for stronger STABs to use in these calcs such as shadow bone.
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Thats because he wanted to base the power on what Rev currently has in its arsenal.

Though, even with Adaptability, I still think some sort of defensive ability would help its defensive Bulk Up sets. While I understand if Poison Heal may seem too strong (though I heartily disagree), Regenerator wouldnt solve the issue, only aggravate it. Regenerator rewards constant switching, and is useful for a pivot. For a bulky set up sweeper meant to come in only after its checks are weakened however, its mostly useless.
 
If anything, Calcs like what Drapionswing posted reinforce the fact that I think offensive abilities are a bad way to go. The calcs show are with a Choice Band, and even then they are not that impressive. See, here is what I am thinking: for these updates we are basing things on our Pokemon's concepts or their identities. Revenankh does not have a concept. It had an original identity of Bulk Up user, sure, but there simply was no real concept. If people want to take Bulk Up user as if it was its concept, that's cool with me though. On the other side of things, we have current identity, which for Rev is a Para spreading tank with Glare. Choice Band Revenankh is a meme, not an actual good set, and we should not be trying to make Rev a CB user. The calcs above showed Rev with CB, which are the same as calcs after a Bulk Up without a boosting item. I just don't think they are that impressive, which to me means that Rev, regardless of ability, is going to need multiple boosts if it wants to abuse Bulk Up.

And as we know, Rev struggles with this in the current meta. If we want Rev to be able to be a Bulk Up user, it absolutely needs defensive buffs to allow it to actually set up; not offensive ones. Coincidentally, defensive buffs would also help it out as a Para spreading tank. While I am not saying that Poison Heal is necessarily the best option out there, it is far better than Adaptability or Technician or Tough Claws or whatever, that does very little to actually address its issues, in my opinion.
 
Agile Turtle said:
If that were the case he'd use shadow punch and not shadow claw, rev does not get shadow claw.
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I calc'd shadow claw because it's almost definitely getting a better ghost move, however shadow bone is seeing some scepticism and I'm not sure if reven is actually allowed to get shadow strike. Therefore Shadow Claw was the safest move to base the calcs off of.
 
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