Tournament CAPPL XI: Format Discussion

[shnowshner]

Hey all, CAPPL is finally underway! At this point I think we've settled on a strong format consisting of 3 SV slots + every oldgen. I'm certain there's no real desire to change this in any large capacity, considering how difficult it was to navigate the support for each generation back in CAPCL IV. Here was last year's concluding post:

Tiers: SV1 / SV2 / SV3 / SS / SM / ORAS / BW / DPP

Teams: 8 total teams, no Retains

Auction: 120,000 points, Manager self-buys 15k each

The biggest change is going to be the reintroduction of retains, following-up on their removal in CAPPL X as we transitioned from 6 to 8 teams, so that's the main thing we'll want to sort out. Retain pricing is typically a player's price from last year + 3k, or 10k flat, whichever is higher. We (read: spoo) did want to try and establish proper franchises last year, but it didn't really pan out: I think a more "general" system of having retains placed into groups might work better for us, rather then tying them to a specific team you have to sign up for (I.E. instead of retain rights being credited to the Storming Saharajas specifically, their players are placed into "Team A" for any managerial duo to claim as their own), but you may not feel the same way.

I would like to wrap this thread up by May 11th so we can get to manager signups ASAP.

Oh, and one last thing: Murphy Lawden and Anchor9 have both graciously volunteered to join me in hosting CAPPL XI! This means you no longer have to deal with exclusively me throughout the tour (beneficial)!

 

[Gekokeso]

Don't see any reason why not keep format as it is. All 6 generations are solid and besides some kinks in like DPP or SV we haven't had much issues with either of them. Besides most side tiers aren't as appealing or developed, even with the developments that came in CAPCL. Only exceptions would probably CAP UU due to being the side tier with the most activity, and CAP Natdex, which is honestly just nearly identical to SV.

Think retain system of numbered letters instead of franchises looks the best. A single tour isn't enough to establish permanent franchises, I think after this one that could change, but for now, keep them as lettered systems. Plus, this allows new players to signups with new teams. I think the only thing to estaablish is some sort of priority system of the retain pools. Say for example, if a former player of a team and the manager of that same team ask for the retain pool, the manager gets it first, but if its two former players of the same team priority should go to the one who asks first. My proposal for the priority to the rights to a team retain should look something like this:

Lead Manager of former team
Co Manager of former team
Player of former team
Manager / Co Manager of another team
Player of another team
Newcomer

All with permision from the past manager of the pool of course.

 

[spoo]

instead of retain rights being credited to the Storming Saharajas specifically, their players are placed into "Team A" for any managerial duo to claim as their own

iirc this is pretty much how we did retains for CAPPL 2023, it just kinda happened behind closed doors instead of being specified in signups. I’m fine with the team A / team B / etc system though I’d still like to advocate for moving towards permanent franchises in some small way. This is legitimately a huge reason why tours like SPL are so exciting; over the years, the teams develop unique storylines and legacies and lore and personalities and you can keep rooting for them or cheering against them every single year. Permanent franchises are great for a tour’s branding and overall identity. I think introducing between one and four franchises would be really cool. Could pull from historic winners of previous CAPPLs, you could just take the Wu-Tang Clants and call it a day, idk but I think franchises are dope.

Keep tiers as-is. Maybe limit to one manager selfbuy, we used to want to incentivize selfbuys because our managers were also usually our best players and the tour was too small to function without them playing but I think CAPPL is big enough where that’s fine now

 

[Wulfanator]

you could just take the Wu-Tang Clants and call it a day

I am opposed to the idea of being able to take on the identity of a franchise you have not contributed to. I think it will only diminish the legacy of those teams. If we want to entertain franchises, there should be a minimum requirement that one of the users in the managing duo was a former member of that team. Otherwise, they should have to create their own identity.

instead of retain rights being credited to the Storming Saharajas specifically, their players are placed into "Team A"

As a manager, I dislike retains because it artificially creates barriers from being able to team with new people. It's really nice to be able to go into the draft and say "I really want to team with X. I'll dump whatever cash it takes to team with them this season." There are a lot of great users I'd love to be able to say I have teamed with that are just no-brainer retain candidates. Maybe I'm just pissed that Pannu has big tony 2014 retain rights.

Edit: remove argument misunderstanding retain confirmation process

 

[SHSP]

though I’d still like to advocate for moving towards permanent franchises in some small way. This is legitimately a huge reason why tours like SPL are so exciting; over the years, the teams develop unique storylines and legacies and lore and personalities and you can keep rooting for them or cheering against them every single year. Permanent franchises are great for a tour’s branding and overall identity. I think introducing between one and four franchises would be really cool. Could pull from historic winners of previous CAPPLs, you could just take the Wu-Tang Clants and call it a day, idk but I think franchises are dope.

Hugely in support of franchises, I think its really sick (guy who repeated team literately last year).
I was curious so I went looking for repeat teams in CAP team tours overall, here's what I found-

Back in ancient history, the dinosaurs repeated teams a lot. The Choice Band Revenankhs participated in five team tours, the Vicious Volkrakens four, and the Naughty Necturna's 3. After that we really haven't had many repeat teams, with one exception.

Teams to appear twice:
Sizzling Smokomodos
Surging Snaelstroms
Weathermen Whimsicotts
Asuka Langley Staryus
Storming Saharajas
Shoenice Squovets

The standout here is also the No Fucks Great Tusks, who went for three, the modern record.

There's also a few teams that are very close to being repeats-
Venomicon-inspired teams went from the Venomous Venomicons to the Vengeful Venomicons
Hemogoblin-inspired teams went from Heart Attack Hemos to the Heartbreaker Hemos
Caribolt-inspired teams are close- Thundering Caribolts, Caribolters
Of all things, there's actually similar Breezi teams- Breezing Breezis and Brazy Breezis

I think if we're going to introduce repeat franchises, even if they're not the whole number of rosters (and probably shouldn't be, considering it'd be nice to get more of our new CAPs in the field), we should focus on some of the more iconic teams. Having a third of the field be Rajas, Hemos, Snaels, etc year over year makes for really cool identities, and I think even stuff like former players becoming managers of the same/different long-term franchise makes for cool storylines- and you guys know I'm a sucker for storylines.

I do agree that retains should be reintroduced, and probably kept in that pool design that's been mentioned.