Carnivine (QC 3/3) [GP 2/2]

#28
Revisit Life Orb imo and add in substitute?
Can you explain your reasoning? Carnivine is so frail that it kind of needs Focus Sash to sleep something and set up, and Sub seems more likely to waste sleep turns than anything else. Life Orb simply means you have trouble doing more than sleeping something and dying. I would like to hear your thoughts about why they deserve mention anywhere but OO. :toast:
 
#29
If its already in oo then that's fine, it's just something i've enjoyed using in the past but i agree that sub is just more set up turns and wastes the sleep turns.
 
#31
LO is probably better in AC, idk it just fits better there imo.

Also in OO you say that Crunch hits Mushy but that's kind of moot since Power Whip hits it harder. I guess it hits Haunter??? tho a +2 Power Whip OHKOes anyway so I guess it smacks it on the switch or something.
 
#32
LO is probably better in AC, idk it just fits better there imo.

Also in OO you say that Crunch hits Mushy but that's kind of moot since Power Whip hits it harder. I guess it hits Haunter??? tho a +2 Power Whip OHKOes anyway so I guess it smacks it on the switch or something.
ill just say that crunch can be useful coverage for hitting ghost and psychic types, but power whip usually hits harder, so only use crunch if you really dont want to miss.

imo carnivine really needs the focus sash, otherwise it just dies too easily. this way it can get off a guaranteed sleep powder and at least hit something. ill probably leave LO in OO

edit: done
 
#33
Mostly nitpicking, I have some time to kill.

[Overview]
The positive mention of Levitate looks weird since it is surrounded by all of flytrap's negative aspects. Maybe you can move it to the end, and add in a mention of Sleep Powder so that there is a "light at the end of the dark tunnel" aspect that indicates what Carnivine's niche is.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
I would mention Focus Sash first, as it is an important part of the set. In fact, I would even venture to suggest that you mention that leading with Carnivine or else having a teammate to deter/remove Stealth Rock is critical to maintain the Sash and give it a chance to actually Sleep something.

[Checks and Counters]
Mention that Carnivine is mostly threatening because it can put something to sleep. I think Sap Sipper Miltank and Sawksbuck deserve a mention because they can switch in safely on Sleep Powder and Power Whip.

Can't stamp this anymore, but good job! :toast:
 

Minus

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#37
[Overview]

<p>Carnivine is one of many physical Grass-types in NU., but uUnfortunately, it is outclassed by the majority of these Grass-types, such as Sawsbuck and Leafeon. The combination of bad bulk and no access to reliable recovery reduces Carnivine's longevity severely, so it can't take many hits before falling. Carnivine is too slow to be effective as a sweeper, but its speed does allow it to barely outspeed a couple of key threats, such as Golurk and Golem. As it is so slow and frail, Carnivine rarely has time to accomplish anything of note. Its typing is bad, as pure Grass leaves it vulnerable to many top tier threats, including Charizard and Pinsir. Not only does it not have reliable recovery, the rest of Carnivine's movepool is also lackluster. It doesn't have access to any priority moves or useful coverage moves, which is a big blow for any usefulness Carnivine may have. However, Levitate is a useful ability, as it provides an immunity to Ground-types and lets Carnivine freely switch in while Spikes and Toxic Spikes are down without any drawbacks. Moreover/In addition/etc, Carnivine does have access to Sleep Powder, which differentiates it somewhat from the other physical Grass-types in the tier.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Return
item: Focus Sash
ability: Levitate
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With its Attack boosted, Carnivine can do a good amount of damage, but due to its low defenses and Speed, it often doesn't get a chance to set up. Therefore, this is the best and only remotely viable set Carnivine set can run. Swords Dance is used to boost Carnivine's mediocre Attack stat so that it can hit decently hard. Power Whip is the primary STAB option, as though although it's inaccurate, it is it's strong, which helps make up for Carnivine's low Attack. Sleep Powder can put an opposing Pokemon to sleep if it hits, which can give Carnivine an opportunity to set up a Swords Dance. Return provides good neutral coverage with Power Whip, but no super effective coverage unfortunately. It is still the best choice however, since Carnivine doesn't have access to any useful coverage options.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Focus Sash is the chosen item to ensure that Carnivine can take at least one hit from something, and the items use is made more effective by Carnivine's immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Leading with Carnivine, or having a Pokemon that can keep Stealth Rock off the field(AC) is the best way to keep Carnivine's sash intact. Good teammates for Carnivine include Pokemon that beat bulky Steel- and Poison-types, such as Seismitoad, Golurk and Golem. Grass-, Flying- and Fire-types are also a nuisance, so Pokemon such as Samurott and Ludicolo are useful teammates. Carnivine really likes to have a free switch due to its sub-par defenses. Slow pivots such as Probopass or Musharna can be very helpful for this, as they take damage before using Volt Switch or Baton Pass respectively, causing Carnivine to take no damage. While the EVs may seem simple and not thought out, having 252 EVs in Speed along with a Jolly nature lets you outspeed max speed Adamant Golurk so you can get in a Power Whip before it attacks you. Trick Room support could be used along Carnivine, as Carnivine is slow, so it can outslow the majority of Pokemon in NU. 0 Speed EVs and IVs with a Brave nature would also be used when with Trick Room. Bullet Seed can be ran run to beat Sturdy and Focus Sash users such as Kadabra and Golem respectively. Carnivine can also choose to run a bulkier spread without Focus Sash, which is equally as mediocre as Carnivine with Focus Sash.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Carnivine can choose to utilize utilise Sleep Powder in conjunction with Stun Spore to create a dual powder set, but this is largely outclassed by other Pokemon such as Butterfree, as it is faster and has access to U-Turn. A special set is an option for Carnivine, as it has a decent Special Attack stat, only slightly lower than its Attack stat. However, it has no way to boost its Special Attack outside of Growth, and no special coverage moves outside of Sludge Bomb, so it is not as effective as a physical set. Carnivine can opt for a mixed set to surprise its usual counters, and when used in the sun can get a free +2 in both Attack and Special Attack from Growth. The purely physical set is usually better because it doesn't rely on weather, and is more reliable as a whole. Life Orb can be used as the choice of item for extra power, but it is OHKOd by too much, so it requires a Focus Sash to work to its full potential. Carnivine also has the option of running a Substitute + Leech Seed set, like many other Grass-types. It is not very effective, however, as Carnivine has low speed and no way of dealing with opposing Grass-types that are immune to Leech Seed. Synthesis can be used to heal Carnivine, but it is too frail to make effective use of the extra health, and generally can't afford to waste a turn healing. Crunch is an interesting coverage move that can be used to hit Psychic- and Ghost-types, but usually Power Whip will usually hit harder, so only use Crunch if you really don't want to rely on Power Whip's accuracy.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Any decently powerful super-effective move will most likely OHKO Carnivine thanks to its low defenses, and that chance is further increased if the move is STAB. Any strong STAB move in general will do a lot of damage, such as any Fighting-type's Close Combat / Drain Punch, or a Psychic-type's Psychic. Steel-types resist both Power Whip and Return, so can deal with Carnivine easily, especially as they have high defense so can take a hit or two with ease. Charizard can OHKO Carnivine with either of its STAB attacks, though it is OHKOd by a +2 Return after Stealth Rock. Physically defensive Pokemon(AC) such as Misdreavus, Mandibuzz or Torkoal(AC) can take any hit Carnivine wants to throw at them,(RC) and burn Carnivine to put a full stop to its potential sweep, or simply wall it to death. Carnivine also relies on Sleep Powder to be even mildly threatening, so Sap Sipper Miltank and Sawsbuck do well as they can absorb both Sleep Powder and Power Whip, while Miltank doesn't take much damage from Return either.</p>
1/2 Lasagne
"Utilise" is not utilized in 'Murica, (same with other "ise" verbs) js. Good job.
 

Electrolyte

and at once I knew I was not magnificent
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#39
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(COMMENTS)

[Overview]

<p>Carnivine is one of many physical Grass-types in NU, but unfortunately, it is outclassed by the majority of these Grass-types, such as Sawsbuck and Leafeon. The combination of bad bulk and no access to lack of reliable recovery reduces Carnivine's longevity severely, so it can't take many hits before falling. Carnivine is too slow to be effective as a sweeper, but its Speed does allow it to barely outspeed a couple of key threats, such as Golurk and Golem. As it is so slow and frail, Carnivine rarely has time to accomplish anything of note. Its typing is bad, as pure Grass leaves it vulnerable to many top tier threats, including Charizard and Pinsir. Not only does it not have lack reliable recovery, the rest of Carnivine's movepool is also lackluster. but it also lacks coverage and has a generally lackluster movepool. It doesn't have access to any priority moves or useful coverage moves, which is a big blow for any usefulness Carnivine may have. However, Levitate is a useful ability, as it provides an immunity to Ground-types and lets Carnivine freely switch in while Spikes and Toxic Spikes are down without any drawbacks. Moreover, Carnivine does have access to Sleep Powder, which differentiates it somewhat from the other physical Grass-types in the tier.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Return
item: Focus Sash
ability: Levitate
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With its Attack boosted, Carnivine can do a good amount of damage, but due to its low defenses and Speed, it often doesn't get a chance to set up. Therefore, this is the best and only remotely viable set Carnivine can run. Swords Dance is used to boost Carnivine's mediocre Attack stat so that it can hit decently hard. Power Whip is the primary STAB option, as although it's inaccurate, it's strong, which helps make up for Carnivine's low Attack. Sleep Powder can put an opposing Pokemon to sleep if it hits, which can give Carnivine an opportunity to set up a Swords Dance. Return provides good neutral coverage with Power Whip, but no super effective coverage unfortunately. It is still the best choice however, since Carnivine doesn't have access to any useful coverage options.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Focus Sash is the chosen item to ensure that Carnivine can take at least one hit from something, and the item'(+Apos.)s use is made more effective by Carnivine's immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Leading with Carnivine,(RC) or having a Pokemon that can keep Stealth Rock off the field,(RC) is the best way to keep Carnivine's Focus Sash intact. Good teammates for Carnivine include Pokemon that beat bulky Steel- and Poison-types, such as Seismitoad, Golurk and Golem. Grass-, Flying-,(AC) and Fire-types are also a nuisance, so Pokemon such as Samurott and Ludicolo are useful teammates. Carnivine really likes to have a free switch due to its sub-par defenses. Slow pivots such as Probopass or and Musharna can be very helpful for this, as they take damage before using Volt Switch or Baton Pass respectively, causing Carnivine to take no damage. While the EVs may seem simple and not thought out, having 252 EVs in Speed along with a Jolly nature lets you outspeed max Speed Adamant Golurk so you can get in a Power Whip before it attacks you. Trick Room support could be used alongside Carnivine, as Carnivine is slow, so it can outslow "outspeed" the majority of Pokemon in NU. 0 Speed EVs and IVs with a Brave nature would should also be used when used with Trick Room. Bullet Seed can be run to beat Sturdy and Focus Sash users such as Kadabra and Golem,(AC) respectively. Carnivine can also choose to run a bulkier spread without Focus Sash, which is equally as mediocre as Carnivine with Focus Sash.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Carnivine can choose to utilize Sleep Powder in conjunction with Stun Spore to create a dual powder set, but this is largely outclassed by other Pokemon such as Butterfree, as it which is faster and has access to U-turn. A special set is an option for Carnivine, as it has a decent Special Attack stat, only slightly lower than its Attack stat. However, it has no way to boost its Special Attack outside of Growth, and no special coverage moves outside of Sludge Bomb, so it is not as effective as a physical set. Carnivine can opt for a mixed set to surprise its usual counters, and when used in the sun can get a free +2 in both Attack and Special Attack from Growth. The purely physical set is usually better because it doesn't rely on weather, and is more reliable as a whole. Life Orb can be used as the choice of item for extra power, but it Carnivine is OHKOed by too much, so and requires a Focus Sash to work to at its full potential. Carnivine also has the option of running a Substitute + Leech Seed set, like many other Grass-types. It is not very effective, however, as Carnivine has low Speed and no way of dealing with opposing Grass-types that are immune to Leech Seed. Synthesis can be used to heal Carnivine, but it is too frail to make effective use of the extra health, and generally can't afford to waste a turn healing. Crunch is an interesting coverage move that can be used to hit Psychic- and Ghost-types, but Power Whip will usually hit harder, so only use Crunch if you really don't want to rely on Power Whip's accuracy.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Any decently powerful super-(-Hyph.) effective move will most likely OHKO Carnivine thanks to its low defenses, and that chance is further increased if the move is boosted by STAB. Any strong STAB move in general will do a lot of damage, such as any Fighting-type's Close Combat / Drain Punch, or a Psychic-type's Psychic. Steel-types resist both Power Whip and Return, so and can deal with Carnivine easily, especially as considering the fact that they have high defense so and can take a hit or two with ease. Charizard can OHKO Carnivine with either of its STAB attacks, though it is OHKOed by a +2 Return after Stealth Rock. Physically defensive Pokemon,(RC) such as Misdreavus, Mandibuzz, or and Torkoal,(RC) can take any hit Carnivine wants to throw at them and burn Carnivine to put a full stop to its potential sweep,(RC) or simply wall it to death. Carnivine also relies on Sleep Powder to be even mildly threatening, so Sap Sipper Miltank and Sawsbuck do well as they can absorb both Sleep Powder and Power Whip, while Miltank doesn't take much damage from Return either.</p>


Lasagne


GP 2/2
 

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