Chandelure

[/B/utterfree]

Yeah agreed, your smart, but what you fail to realize is the stupidity of others... Butterfree is just Being Ignorant... and a stereotyped american(I'm also american just less stereotyped).

PS totally thought that objection clip was hilarious(but dont trust butterfree so now scanning computer for viruses)

[sarcasm]Yes, yes, how ignorant of me not to get antivirus.[/sarcasm]

Also, how coy of me to forget the growing popularity of Mold Breaker from other mons such as Ononokusu, Gastro Acid in mons that can learn it (i.e. Jaroda), and its friend TeraVoltage in Zekrom.

Sorry for leaving those details out.

ANYWAY, here's a Flash Fire Shan set.
Shanderaa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Timid / Modest
Moveset:
1. Shadow Ball [Ghost]
2. Energy Ball [Grass]
3. Flamethrower [Fire]
4. Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Bug

All this provides offensive coverage.

1 and 3 get STAB and help it deal with Ghost-types.
2 covers against Water, Rock, and Ground-types.
4 covers against Dark-types.

 

[Nanoswine]

Ironically, I think DD Tyranitar would be a good partner for shanderaa. They share a Water and Ground weakness, but other than those they cover all of eachother's weaknesses. The way I would play it is come in and set up a DD, then switch to Shanderaa to take out their counter. After that you are free to set up and sweep for the most part.

And unless Shadow Tag ends up banned, Flash Fire shand will see almost no use :(

 

[Elfam]

I think Tyranitar would work bettter though honestly despite the fire weak similarities(im bettin most people attampt revenge with a pursuit choice pokemon). He takes his ghost weakness beautifully... as for his fire weaknesses grass types work welll enough so id add in jaroda(i want to use leaf storm so badly)

slo note butterfree that mold breaker doesnt help you switch... mummy desukan could work though(and anti virus isnt perfect)
and i just dont see your set being very viable OU...heatran was usuallly scarfed higher up on the ladder and he had better defense to use flash fire. without shadow tag shanderaa could easily turn NU.(plus focus sash? defenses arent that bad and being a lead just isnt a good idea, plus stealth rock negates it)

 

[KokoaKiwi]

I think Tyranitar would work bettter though honestly despite the fire weak similarities(im bettin most people attampt revenge with a pursuit choice pokemon). He takes his ghost weakness beautifully... as for his fire weaknesses grass types work welll enough so id add in jaroda(i want to use leaf storm so badly)

slo note butterfree that mold breaker doesnt help you switch... mummy desukan could work though(and anti virus isnt perfect)
and i just dont see your set being very viable OU...heatran was usuallly scarfed higher up on the ladder and he had better defense to use flash fire. without shadow tag shanderaa could easily turn NU.(plus focus sash? defenses arent that bad and being a lead just isnt a good idea, plus stealth rock negates it)

Flash Fire Shanderaa NU?
Yeah, I remember those Dustox giving Heatran a hard time.
Dude seriously, 145 SpA will NEVER be NU. Especially with so much opportunities to switch in with 3 immunities and a decent movepool. Shanderaa's other stats may not be too good, but they aren't half bad, either.

 

[Elfam]

Flash Fire Shanderaa NU?
Yeah, I remember those Dustox giving Heatran a hard time.
Dude seriously, 145 SpA will NEVER be NU. Especially with so much opportunities to switch in with 3 immunities and a decent movepool. Shanderaa's other stats may not be too good, but they aren't half bad, either.

yeah i may be a little over dramatic with that statement but i seee so much rhyperior in him. But dustox can be very viscious... never know when a dedicated counter(shanderaa) will save you. OK... UU sound better cause i think heatran fulfils role better

 

[KokoaKiwi]

yeah i may be a little over dramatic with that statement but i seee so much rhyperior in him. But dustox can be very viscious... never know when a dedicated counter(shanderaa) will save you. OK... UU sound better cause i think heatran fulfils role better

No offense, but I don't know what you're talking about and it seems neither do you.
Shanderaa can perform Heatran's job arguably better. It's been stated a crapload of times in this thread. Sure, it may be mere speculation, but hits harder than Tran, comes in abusing its immunities and resistances, can abuse choice scarf, sub, taunt, or just sweep. Heatran can set up some SR, and Shanderaa can just block the rapid spin.
Both Shanderaa's SpA AND Speed are higher than heatran's and can run mildly similar movesets, bar Earth Power.
Tran has much more Def and SpD whereas Shandy has more Spe and SpA.

 

[Elfam]

No offense, but I don't know what you're talking about and it seems neither do you.
Shanderaa can perform Heatran's job arguably better. It's been stated a crapload of times in this thread. Sure, it may be mere speculation, but hits harder than Tran, comes in abusing its immunities and resistances, can abuse choice scarf, sub, taunt, or just sweep. Heatran can set up some SR, and Shanderaa can just block the rapid spin.
Both Shanderaa's SpA AND Speed are higher than heatran's and can run mildly similar movesets, bar Earth Power.

first i feel i do know what im talking about. First shanderaa cant sweep well without the aid of a shadow tag set up(again imo), 2nd stealth rock and no recovery moves hurts massively. You have exactly 4 turns of switch ins with shanderaa and with the medicroe speed it wont be doing well to sweep and fails to really get a niche. even neutral hits will be doing a whole lot to shaqnderaa and without its speed being higher than others it is easily forced to switch often and sr kill 1/4 hp.

The SR thing is the biggest deal because sr weakness isnt ideal for a revenger/counter when you need to switch a lot in every battle. especially choice sets. there is a reason there isnt a choiced gyrados running around

 

[KokoaKiwi]

first i feel i feel i do know what im talking about. First shanderaa cant sweep well without the aid of a shadow tag set up(again imo), 2nd stealth rock and no recovery moves hurts massively. You have exactly 4 turns of switch ins with shanderaa and with the medicroe speed it wont be doing well to sweep and fails to really get a niche. even neutral hits will be doing a whole lot to shaqnderaa and without its speed being higher than others it is easily forced to switch often

Shanderaa gets Pain Split, which is mediocre at best, but Heatran gets nothing bar Rest.
Shanderaa can 2KO a lot of stuff with 427SpA and STAB fire blast. Heck, if you manage to get at least one Calm Mind, Fire Blast is a 2KO on Blissey. (See Blissey's thread for damage calcs).
As for faster pokemon, earthquake and water moves pretty much screw over both Shandy and Heatran, so no argument there. Heatran may only have 3 weaknesses, but Shanderaa has the ever useful Fighting-type immunity, making switching in somewhat easier. Stealth Rock weakness hurts, but still workable, especially if you manage to nail Blissey or some common switch in with Pain Split.

 

[Elfam]

Shanderaa gets Pain Split, which is mediocre at best, but Heatran gets nothing bar Rest.
Shanderaa can 2KO a lot of stuff with 427SpA and STAB fire blast. Heck, if you manage to get at least one Calm Mind, Fire Blast is a 2KO on Blissey. (See Blissey's thread for damage calcs).
As for faster pokemon, earthquake and water moves pretty much screw over both Shandy and Heatran, so no argument there. Heatran may only have 3 weaknesses, but Shanderaa has the ever useful Fighting-type immunity, making switch in somewhat easier. Stealth Rock weakness hurts, but still workable, especially if you manage to nail Blissey or some common switch in with Pain Split.

First I will concede a little bit but i want you to do the same. I'm going to say that shanderaa and heatran are very similar and fulfill eachothers roles adequately enouch, however when you want a revenger/ scarfed pokemon consider pursuit... TTar easily owns with pursuit losing 65%+25%sr leaving shanderaadead after 2 sandstorm waves. plus bothe shanderaa's stabs are absorbed by another pokemon and since heatran usually only runs 1 stab its moves are less automatic(IMO). losing a revenger is bad and pursuit weak on a choiced type is asking for trouble.

 

[Morm]

you know I personally like the idea of flash fire on Shanderaa- you don't even need to set up really, just come in on the predict. If you mispredict and take a different hit, whatever, most players won't even bother trying to switch against something with autotrapping capabilities.

 

[Lucindril]

Some people are treating this thing as if it's Rampardos. An extremely high offense stat does not automatically mean it's got huge drawbacks. People tend to push a Pokemon aside for having too many weak points, but Heatran does fine with EQ everywhere, as does Celebi with U-turns flying all over. Plus, Shanderaa's cry is enough to scare off just about anything. Not that that's relevant or anything, I just felt like I needed to point out yet another awesome aspect of this Pokemon.

 

[Elfam]

yes flash fire is nice but keep in mind that shanderaa cant take many mis predict... SR alone takes 25% on a switch and if it is a super effective mispredict you probabky get KOed

also @kokoakiwi pain split can bite you in the ass too if you over use and they predict

 

[KokoaKiwi]

First I will concede a little bit but i want you to do the same. I'm going to say that shanderaa and heatran are very similar and fulfill eachothers roles adequately enouch, however when you want a revenger/ scarfed pokemon consider pursuit... TTar easily owns with pursuit losing shanderaa after a little residual damage, plus bothe shanderaa's stabs are absorbed by another pokemon and since heatran usually only runs 1 stab its moves are less automatic(IMO). losing a revenger is bad and puruit weak on a choiced typ is asking for trrouble.

T-Tar screws all ghosts with STAB Pursuit or Crunch. It's all about mindgames.
You could stay in cripple T-Tar with HP fighting or Will o' Wisp. Shanderaa won't get past Tyranitar any time soon, but will still get the job done by crippling in.
Even if Shan goes for HP fighting, I'm pretty sure T-Tay can survive it and just OHKO in return.
Alternatively, you could just Sub to scout for Crunch, Pursuit, or even Dragon Dance.

@Lucindril
Shanderaa's cry is an orgasm for my ears. Along with Milotic and (lol) Dragonite it's my favourite cry. °3°

 

[Elfam]

T-Tar screws all ghosts with STAB Pursuit or Crunch. It's all about mindgames.
You could stay in cripple T-Tar with HP fighting or Will o' Wisp. Shanderaa can't get past Tyranitar any time soon, but will still get the job done by crippling in.
Even if Shan goes for HP fighting, I pretty sure T-Tay can survive it and just OHKO in return.
Alternatively, you could just Sub to scout for Crunch, Pursuit, or even Dragon Dance.

ok yes subbing is always an option(but if u sub then he pursuits u lost any advantage you had).... on heatran too but imagine shanderaa with 75% subbing to 50%.... not a pleasant thought.... can you agree that shanderaa losing a turn of switching in isnt good? there are always tons of switches in battles shanderaa doesnt have nearly the staying power of heatran despite it having a 4x weak because that kills shanderaa just as easily

also arguement about ttar is mute... he could just as easily use crunch guessing your predict point being that ttar gives you a small chance to live.... Heatran doesnt have thatproblem

(fun fact i always lum my ttar)

 

[PorygonZ2]

Gamefreak have created a monster.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Without Shadow Tag, Shanderaa would be largely outclassed; they have different resistances, but Heatran's are better and more numerous, and it's not weak to SR. It's also a lot bulkier, even if it's negligibly slower and hits a little less hard (about 6% less damage).

 

[T.D.]

She's... beautiful...

Are there any vids of her in action? In fact is there a tier for bw yet?

 

[Thorhammer]

In fact is there a tier for bw yet?

No. That would be absurd.

 

[Zam42]

I think he can be a great Memento user in Uber battles(except for the nem Psychic attack)

Candle Jack uses Memen-

Shanderaa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shadow Tag / Flame Body( Just depends on which way you like him to use)
Nature: Timid
Moveset:
1 - Will-o-Wisp
2 - Shadow Ball/Flamethrower
3 - Memento
4 - Flamethrower/Ernegy Ball

This set focus on 1 thing: Annoy Mewtwo, Ho-Oh or any Special Sweeper. His speed can outspeed some of his threats(I think), but, in most cases, he would just use Memento after the activation of FS. Will-o-Wisp is to annoy and the two other attacks, is your choose:If you uses Shadow Ball as STAB, uses Flamethrower for the same. If you choose the flamethrower, choose Ernegy Ball to cause some damage to your main enemies:Kyogre, Palkia and Lugia.

Maybe I made a mistake, but the m ain point is out:Could he be a good Memento user?

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Without Shadow Tag, Shanderaa would be largely outclassed; they have different resistances, but Heatran's are better and more numerous, and it's not weak to SR. It's also a lot bulkier, even if it's negligibly slower and hits a little less hard (about 6% less damage).

Shanderaa has a couple of points over Heatran, tho. Close Combat (Fighting) Immunity, higher SpA and higher SpD.
Stealth Rock weakness is a big letdown (I loathe those rocks, seriously), but can still see Shandy as a great OU option with Flash Fire. Even UU, whatever. I just do NOT want to see her banned to Ubers whatsoever.

 

[Anthony Von Hertzon]

Shanderaa has a couple of points over Heatran, tho. Close Combat (Fighting) Immunity, higher SpA and higher SpD.
Stealth Rock weakness is a big letdown (I loathe those rocks, seriously), but can still see Shandy as a great OU option with Flash Fire. Even UU, whatever. I just do NOT want to see her banned to Ubers whatsoever.

I agree completely. This thing sports some things heatran doesn't and because of that, since SR will most likely fall due to it no longer being a TM (thank goodness for that!), I think it will be in OU. Its to powerful for UU or below IMO and I wouldn't want to see it go to ubers. If they're going to ban anything, ban shadow tag, Shanderaa doesn't deserve ubers. Let wobbles and all the others (who probably aren't broken compared to the monsters that have been introduced) come back, they dont deserve their punishment anymore IMO.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

I agree completely. This thing sports some things heatran doesn't and because of that, since SR will most likely fall due to it no longer being a TM (thank goodness for that!), I think it will be in OU. Its to powerful for UU or below IMO and I wouldn't want to see it go to ubers. If they're going to ban anything, ban shadow tag, Shanderaa doesn't deserve ubers. Let wobbles and all the others (who probably aren't broken compared to the monsters that have been introduced) come back, they dont deserve their punishment anymore IMO.

Well, Rampardos, Slaking, and Regigigas were all NU and and Rhyperior was UU, and they all had massive Atk stats. Other than that, my thoughts exactly.
I can actually see an Ubers set for Shandera with Shadow Tag, whilst Flash Fire and lol Flame Body can still be used in OU.
Another advantage Shandy has over heatran, she doesn't lose to Blissey, now that 'tran's explosion was nerfed. +1 SpA Life Orb Fire Blast is a sure 2KO on Bliss. :3

 

[SJCrew]

Don't forget the speed. Timid Heatran loses to Adamant Lucario by 1 point. Needless to say, Shandy does not have this problem. :P

 

[SharKing]

Who knows? Shadow Tag really spreads around this generation. Smogon may make a "Shadow Tag Clause", meaning that everyone's favorite onibi-chandelier will not be the only victim.

I would love to use this thing in OU. Scizor beware.

 

[KokoaKiwi]

Who knows? Shadow Tag really spreads around this generation. Smogon may make a "Shadow Tag Clause", meaning that everyone's favorite onibi-chandelier will not be the only victim.

I would love to use this thing in OU. Scizor beware.

I'm pretty sure only Wobuffet, Why not, Shandy, and GothLoliTower get Shadow Tag.