I'd like to point out you don't have to start with a weather changer on a team and I said the moveset is gimmicky sounding.
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Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
I'd like to point out you don't have to start with a weather changer on a team and I said the moveset is gimmicky sounding.
Would someone clarify something for me quickly? im under the impression that shadow tag traps the opponent until it dies or you force it out. If this is untrue then i would understand the lack of suggestions for this idea but i feel like a trapped pokemon provides ideal set up and if you manage to memento the opponent and then they are forcibly stuck you could then send in a set up pokemon or possibly an entire team to take advantage of a pokemon doing half damage. im not disapproving of the set up version but the thing desperately needs speed before it would dream of a sweep, and a berry or nitro charge are its only viable options and without sstorm resistance a salac version just doesnt seem superior.
willowisp + curse + memento is still very potent in order to offer the _PERFECT_ set up to your boosting sweeper.
anyway substitute + calm mind + shadow ball + hp fighting is probably the way to go; it'll always kill at least two pokémon on the opponent's side of the field if your opponent as any set-up field for it (which implies total decline for blissey and cb fighting pokés, possibly for choice band scizor as well).
or choice scarf for totally revenge killing shit. her stab moves are extremely potent, and shadow tag means she doesn't give a shit about being walled by special sponges (as she's trapkilling her target anyway).
anyway substitute + calm mind + shadow ball + hp fighting is probably the way to go; it'll always kill at least two pokémon on the opponent's side of the field if your opponent as any set-up field for it (which implies total decline for blissey and cb fighting pokés, possibly for choice band scizor as well).
or choice scarf for totally revenge killing shit. her stab moves are extremely potent, and shadow tag means she doesn't give a shit about being walled by special sponges (as she's trapkilling her target anyway).
If shadow tag is too broken with Shandera after a while, they could also just not allow you to use Shandera with the ability Shadow tag. Similar with Latias and soul dew.
Hopefully this isn't overstepping the "this is not a tiering discussion" header of this thread, but I find it tough to imagine a metagame in which Shadow Tag Shanderaa is balanced. Dugtrio is able to see moderate use with below average stats solely because of its ability, which isn't even as good as Shadow Tag. Shanderaa is a fantastic pokemon in its own right, so the fact that it has Shadow Tag seems like it would push it absolutely over the top.
The most troubling part of this imo is that Shanderaa basically makes steel types without Shed Shell absolutely obsolete. Forretress, Scizor, Skarmory, knight bug/steel, grass/steel, Bronzong, and Metagross are all outsped, can't swith out, and are instantly KOed by any fire attack. This is a serious problem because these pokemon seem like the only answer to the megapowered dragons in gen V like Ononkusu, Sazando, chomp, mence etc. With Shanderaa able to easily do away with these pokemon, the dragons are going to rampage through teams.
Honestly the only thing I see keeping this thing remotely in check is the fact that Tyranitar for the most part spells instant death for it.
The most troubling part of this imo is that Shanderaa basically makes steel types without Shed Shell absolutely obsolete. Forretress, Scizor, Skarmory, knight bug/steel, grass/steel, Bronzong, and Metagross are all outsped, can't swith out, and are instantly KOed by any fire attack. This is a serious problem because these pokemon seem like the only answer to the megapowered dragons in gen V like Ononkusu, Sazando, chomp, mence etc. With Shanderaa able to easily do away with these pokemon, the dragons are going to rampage through teams.
Honestly the only thing I see keeping this thing remotely in check is the fact that Tyranitar for the most part spells instant death for it.
A Choice Scarf can be used with Shadow Tag to prevent any pokemons who Shanderaa from escaping death. This is a great trapper, and with its strong Sp. Attack, it can easily trap physical walls like Skarmory, and allow physical sweepers to sweep easier. I'm definitely using this guy.
I suspect Shanderaa is likely going to shape the metagame, but might not be uber.
If you are so worried about Sub Calm Mind Shanderra sweeping you don't run a fucking team full of things it can set up on. Since when was running Scarfed Fighting and Normal moves a good idea anyway? Shanderra isn't terribly bulky. SR weakness and vulnerability to all forms of residual damage keeps him from setting up to +6 unless its opponent is something like Flamethrower Toxic Blissey.
Scarf Shanderaa is dangerous, but not going to revenge any fast Dragon Dancers, nor will it like taking a boosted priority hit, even if its resisted. If its such a big deal run something like a Dugtrio (Sucker Punch), Scizor, Tyranitar or one of the other ways to revenge it. Use its locked move to set up something of your own.
Its not going to Sub to +6 every time nor will it execute half a team on its own. Not if you adapt your team to it, as you do for every other threat. I'm not saying its not going to turn out broken, but its not a 100% guaranteed killer any more than Dugtrio is.
If you are so worried about Sub Calm Mind Shanderra sweeping you don't run a fucking team full of things it can set up on. Since when was running Scarfed Fighting and Normal moves a good idea anyway? Shanderra isn't terribly bulky. SR weakness and vulnerability to all forms of residual damage keeps him from setting up to +6 unless its opponent is something like Flamethrower Toxic Blissey.
Scarf Shanderaa is dangerous, but not going to revenge any fast Dragon Dancers, nor will it like taking a boosted priority hit, even if its resisted. If its such a big deal run something like a Dugtrio (Sucker Punch), Scizor, Tyranitar or one of the other ways to revenge it. Use its locked move to set up something of your own.
Its not going to Sub to +6 every time nor will it execute half a team on its own. Not if you adapt your team to it, as you do for every other threat. I'm not saying its not going to turn out broken, but its not a 100% guaranteed killer any more than Dugtrio is.
Ya, if thing stays OU, I don't see how CB Scizor can possibly be popular. Spiker Steels will probably need shed shell, which isn't too much of an issue, considering many already had it due to Magnezone. The most significant change, however, is that Blissey will need Shed Shell, which SUCKS since she needs the extra leftovers recovery.
ScarfTar w/ Pursuit doesn't have too much of an issue with disposing of this.
ScarfTar w/ Pursuit doesn't have too much of an issue with disposing of this.
Blissey doesn't need Shed Shell, she just needs Shadow Ball.
Scizor kills Scarf Shanderaa if it gets locked into any move that isn't Flamethrower.
Scizor kills Scarf Shanderaa if it gets locked into any move that isn't Flamethrower.
I always wanted to make a serene grace blissey with twave and shadow ball xD
Bah, I always feel like I need all 4 moveslots for different things, so Shadow Ball wouldn't work for me. Seismic Toss, Shadow Ball, Toxic, Softboiled COULD work, but then it loses Aromatherapy/Wish. :\
this looks like something that you could use to make a mono-dragon team extremely viable. scarf versions can trap and kill all steel types and starmie/mamo/weavile/most other revenge killers, (too bad it cant get flygon) then you just spam the shit out of Banded Outrage or Specs Meteor with something like SD garchomp in there just for the lulz.
Tyranitar makes Shanderaa a 1 for 1 trade.. at worst.
The metagame isn't developed at all, so fuck it I'll guess. I say Shanderaa will be OU. Come back to me when I'm wrong!
The metagame isn't developed at all, so fuck it I'll guess. I say Shanderaa will be OU. Come back to me when I'm wrong!
Actually it has been confirmed that choice Items are in the games via the Battle Subway w/ BP points as usual.
Do you guys not get that this thread is meant to discuss the pokemon itself as opposed to whether it should be banned or not? There were calls to ban Rhyperior before we actually got playing so let's just wait and see how Shanderaa goes before jumping to conclusions. One conclusion I can safely jump to is that Shanderaa is pretty much a full stop to every grass type in existence and will have quite possibly the biggest impact on the metagame of any new pokemon. I believe its existence will make Tyranitar the number one most use pokemon in the whole metagame (once it settles and people aren't enamoured only with Gen 5 mons) and will give Hydragon even more of a reason to be used, whom I've already explained in another thread as a top tier choice item user to begin with. I can't wait till I get my hands on these games, so many interesting mons and you can't deny the cuteness of Shanderaa ^_^.
I predict the rise of choice scarf shadow tag shanderaa on stall/balance, hell even offensive teams to trap and kill any spinners, so that SR is there forever.
For the non-choice set I personally think maxing speed is useful because Shanderaa can then function as a revenge killer to Lucario along with stuff like Heatran and Dragonite. Bold isn't making use of its potential well enough. For the CM set I would also use a coverage Hidden Power to prevent myself from getting walled by Tyranitar/Heatran/Sazando, over Substitute. I also think Delta's Nitro Charge proposal makes a lot of sense.
honestly i feel like the game needs a pokemon like shadow tag shanderaa. steel types have run rampart being the greatest defensive typing and are ungodly annoying when trying to deal with all the variations. i feel like everyone will agree when i say that gamefreak obviously want this generation to be heavy offense and shanderaa will destroy anyone who has the guts to attempt using skarm or forretress.... honestly even blissy doesnt like attempting to combat this thing. speed and move options are simply going to become more standard. shanderaa is simply an epic game changer who will probably dial down choice users (unless dark or ghost or etc). pluss i feel like there needs to be a good counter for a perversity jaroda(i dont know why this thing isnt getting much love because with leaf storm it adds 2 spec att bumps each turn on a stabbed move with already high base attack)
also im firmly in love with the idea to baton pass a little speed to this thing but smart trainers usually send in a phazer... hmm if blaziken can get speed boost and baton pass id love him for the combination except a horric aquatic weakness that shanderaa cant switch into so im thinking a combination of scizors agility baton passed to this thing would be ungodly(im thinking a calm mind set with dual stab hp fight) if scizor manages to lure out the right opponent it becomes instant victory... unless aqua jetted or hit by crazy fast scarfer.
also feel like weaville will get more action combined with his new ability to steal opponents item everytime he attacks so no major worries on the shanderaa is too overpowered front.if he starts sashed and is hit by shanderaa he loses the sash then steals whatever shanderaa is packing eliminating the the scarf fear in my opinion. plus the fact that dragons will be bowing down to this ungodly steel killer means that weaville will have more varied niches in groups
note: if you can think of a more advantageous and un obvious speed basser please tell me because as an avid scizor user i know he lures out waters fairly often also to soak up his bullet punchs
also feel like weaville will get more action combined with his new ability to steal opponents item everytime he attacks so no major worries on the shanderaa is too overpowered front.if he starts sashed and is hit by shanderaa he loses the sash then steals whatever shanderaa is packing eliminating the the scarf fear in my opinion. plus the fact that dragons will be bowing down to this ungodly steel killer means that weaville will have more varied niches in groups
note: if you can think of a more advantageous and un obvious speed basser please tell me because as an avid scizor user i know he lures out waters fairly often also to soak up his bullet punchs
I hate to call Uber so early, but i just don't feel like anything usable with shadowtag is balanced. The argument that it can be checked after it KOs something could be used for wobbuffet as well, but he's still banned to ubers. I mean, wobb only guarantees you 1 kill per battle, shanderaa is likely to get more, as it doesn't have to give away a huge chunk of its health to kill anything weak to fire/ghost.
Aside from the subCM trap set, scarftag ensures a kill on any ice, steel, bug, or grass pokemon. As mentioned earlier, this makes sweeping for dragons extremely easy. If it DOESNT get banned, its going to make an awesome partner for mence, assuming it comes back down to OU.
Aside from the subCM trap set, scarftag ensures a kill on any ice, steel, bug, or grass pokemon. As mentioned earlier, this makes sweeping for dragons extremely easy. If it DOESNT get banned, its going to make an awesome partner for mence, assuming it comes back down to OU.