OU Chansey

[NVT_Sart]

QC by p2 Nedor Finchinator, GP by P Squared

[OVERVIEW]
* Chansey not only functions as a premium special wall (outclassing its evolution Blissey thanks to Eviolite), but also can set entry hazards, act as a cleric, pass Wishes, spread status and be an emergency check to mixed attackers.
* Since role compression is immensely important, having a Pokemon that does so many things in one slot is a godsend.
* Its abysmal offensive stats will still leave it passive, which is why Chansey is mostly used on stall teams.* Despite its qualities, its typing is suboptimal for a wall, giving it only one immunity against Ghost, no resistances, and a weakness to common Fighting moves.
* It is also very vulnerable to its Eviolite being Knocked Off, and it can be both Taunt and setup bait.

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Soft-Boiled
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Thunder Wave
move 4: Aromatherapy
item: Eviolite
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Soft-Boiled is its most reliable recovery, and unlike similar moves, such as Morning Sun, it is not affected by weather.
* Seismic Toss is used over other offensive moves because it needs no investment to do acceptable damage (for a wall).
* Stealth Rock is a great asset because Chansey finds a lot of opportunities to set it up, which is very important for the stall teams it finds herself on.
* Toxic is also viable if you already have a dedicated Stealth Rock setter, and it can wear down defensive Pokemon, as well as limit the turns offensive Pokemon can stay in against Chansey.
* Thunder Wave is another status option over Toxic to cripple fast and hard-hitting physical attackers that often switch into Chansey. This is especially useful if you are using an offensive sweeper on your team, since the chance of it being revenge killed by those Pokemon decreases drastically.
* Aromatherapy enables Chansey to act as a cleric on top of other roles, clearing every status condition on your team all at once.

Set Details
========
* The EVs let Chansey wall almost every special attacker in the game to a point that they can't touch it, at the cost of being physically fragile.
* Chansey's naturally high HP stat removes the necessity of investing many EVs into it, but an optional 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD spread can be used to increase its physical bulk too; enabling Chansey to take on mixed attackers and pursuit trappers too, while still avoiding the 2HKO from the threats it is supposed to check.
* Natural Cure is used to sponge status and get rid of it by simply switching out again.
* Eviolite helps Chansey round out both its physical and special bulk, allowing it to take many hits it otherwise couldn't.

Usage Tips
=========
* Chansey's primary roles are that of a special wall and status sponge, so switch it into special attackers or status moves.
* Depending on the moveset, it can also act as a cleric, hazard setter, or status spreader.
* Always be on the lookout for potential Knock Off users. Chansey should avoid losing its Eviolite at all costs, since its bulk massively depends on it being intact.
* Try to keep Chansey as healthy as possible throughout the game. Since it has no passive recovery and is forced to use a turn to heal up, often after the foe moves due to Chansey's bad Speed, switching it in weakened could suddenly turn Pokemon that it normally walls into potent threats.

Team Options
===========
* This set is almost exclusively used on stall and defensive teams.
* Hazard control from Pokemon like Mega Sableye, Skarmory, Zapdos, and Mantine is needed because stall teams naturally switch a lot.
* Skarmory should be highlighted because it is most commonly a physical wall, complementing Chansey nicely. It is also able to run either Stealth Rock to free up a slot for Chansey or Spikes for more entry hazards.
* Other physical walls like Toxapex make for equally good teammates.
* Unaware users like Clefable and Quagsire are a necessity, since Chansey's passivity and physical frailty will often result in free turns for the opponent, which they can use to set up.
* Offensive sweepers, such as bulky Coil Zygarde, can close the game for your team.
* Trappers like Dugtrio and Choice Band Weavile can get rid of Pokemon that threaten the rest of your team.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
===========
* Counter is an option over Seismic Toss to mess with physical attackers in situations that Chansey has to stay in against them, or if you know Chansey can tank a hit and OHKO them back with it. It is a lot more situational than Seismic Toss, though.
* A Wish passer set is possible, making good use of Chansey's natural bulk and high HP stat, but it will usually miss out on important utility moves if it runs Wish and Protect, which are necessary for a Wish passer set.
* Healing Wish on the Wish passing set is an option for offensive teams, but usually Wish is enough to heal partners to full HP again, and you are also able to clear status without it.

Checks and Counters
================

**Knock Off Users**: Since Chansey's bulk is very dependent on its Eviolite being intact, you should be on the watch for common Knock Off users. Mega Sableye specifically completely shuts down Chansey because not only can she not touch it with Seismic Toss, but it also bounces back both hazards and status moves, leaving Chansey with nothing to do.
**Setup Sweepers**: Chansey's passivity, especially if lacking Toxic, can leave it setup fodder for many Pokemon that it might wall inherently but cannot harm either.
**Physical Attackers**: Even with a Bold nature and maximum HP and Defense investment, Chansey should still not be switched into strong physical attackers, unless there is really no other option.
**Taunt Users**: Taunt can leave Chansey completely helpless against a lot of Pokemon, which is especially dangerous if it is used by a Pokemon that can also use boosting moves.
**Strong Fighting-type Attacks**: Ones that target Chansey's Defense like Keldeo's Secret Sword or attacks in general from physically oriented Pokemon like Pheromosa and Buzzwole are one way of outright breaking through Chansey.

 

[dk]

This is supposed to be in skeleton/bullet point format. Full write-ups are happening way further down the line, so you won't have to write it up before upload.

 

[NVT_Sart]

This is supposed to be in skeleton/bullet point format. Full write-ups are happening way further down the line, so you won't have to write it up before upload.

I'm not a native English speaker, my apologies :/ I assumed "skeleton" just means that it should follow the guidelines posted in the explanation thread.

Should I deleted it again and reupload it in another format?

 

[Hootie]

I'm not a native English speaker, my apologies :/ I assumed "skeleton" just means that it should follow the guidelines posted in the explanation thread.

Should I deleted it again and reupload it in another format?

No just edit your original post and convert it to bullet point form.

 

[NVT_Sart]

Hootie
and
daddy's kisses

I updated the thread in the new format, I hope this works now? (I still have the fully written analysis saved to my PC, so I can send it/edit it any time)

http://www.smogon.com/forums/members/hootie.137027/

 

[Martin]

Max HP is extremely inefficient due to just how disgustingly high Chansey's HP stat is proportional to it's defenses. A spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD bold is more efficient. Overall there is a ~9.2% drop in physical bulk, but this is in exchange for a ~14.1% increase in special bulk (both after factoring Eviolite) and just generally putting better emphasis on Chansey's primary role by making it a better special sponge.

I'm also not that keen on the slashing of the sets personally. I think that they should look like this (QC get the final say ofc, but I think it should be like this):

Utility:
move 1: Softboiled
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Stealth Rock / Heal Bell
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave / Heal Bell
Moves mentions: Protect

It isn't uncommon for Chansey to be used as a stall team's rocker, and I personally think that it is the best option in the third slot. In addition to this, Imprison is literally nonexistent whereas Sap Sipper--which blocks Aromatherapy--at least sees some use (albeit v. rare/niche) on Drampa and Goodra, and it is generally preferable to hide whether you are running Wish or not as well. Even with the nerf Thunder Wave is still very viable to help put a check on some of the special attackers that you're using Chansey to check.

Wish:
move 1: Wish
move 2: Softboiled
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave
Moves mentions: Heal Bell, Stealth Rock, Protect
Set details: Mention 100 HP / 252 Def / 156 SpD (always heals Skarmory to full from Sturdy, but don't make the main spread 'cause it's mega situational and max SpD is usually better)

It's generally preferable to run Softboiled over Protect because it gives you an immediate form of recovery rather than a two-turn thing, which is much more useful for checking stuff throughout the match. I've slashed TWave in the last slot for the same reasons as on utility, and generally speaking Wish+Heal Bell/Stealth Rock is trying to compress way more into a set than is practical if you are running Wish and just generally reduces the overall consistency of the set. That spread is generally not as good as standard, but it can come in useful very, very rarely if you use Sturdy to take a hit and PHaze a sweeper or smth.

 

[NVT_Sart]

Max HP is extremely inefficient due to just how disgustingly high Chansey's HP stat is proportional to it's defenses. A spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD bold is more efficient. Overall there is a ~9.2% drop in physical bulk, but this is in exchange for a ~14.1% increase in special bulk (both after factoring Eviolite) and just generally putting better emphasis on Chansey's primary role by making it a better special sponge.

I can only quote myself again here: You risk not a single important 2hko which was a 3hko or 3hko which was a 4hko (not like THAT mattered) with that spread, all while improving your matchup vs Pursuit trappers and mixed attackers. The max SpD spread is fine if you want to be literally untouchable on the special side, so it's propably worth mentioning, but it should not be the main spread and is overall inferior.

A prominent example of a (more than) common team using the spread I mention here was ABR's Weavile Stall. Chansey was the main (in fact, only) special wall in this team and ran with this spread. And I don't think anyone would want to doubt that team's efficiency.

I'm also not that keen on the slashing of the sets personally. I think that they should look like this (QC get the final say ofc, but I think it should be like this):

Utility:
move 1: Softboiled
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Stealth Rock / Heal Bell
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave / Heal Bell
Moves mentions: Protect

It isn't uncommon for Chansey to be used as a stall team's rocker, and I personally think that it is the best option in the third slot.

Not quite sure what your point is, I have SR as the main move in the 3rd slot already? Thunder Wave is indeed still an option, I wanted to include it in "Other Options" because of how uncommon it is, but forgot it later. Will add it back in, thanks!

In addition to this, Imprison is literally nonexistent whereas Sap Sipper--which blocks Aromatherapy--at least sees some use (albeit v. rare/niche) on Drampa and Goodra, and it is generally preferable to hide whether you are running Wish or not as well.

This is plain wrong, sorry mate. Sap Sipper only activates on FRIENDLY pokemon, not on enemy ones. And since this is a Singles analysis, the points I listed still stand.

Wish:
move 1: Wish
move 2: Softboiled
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Wave
Moves mentions: Heal Bell, Stealth Rock, Protect
Set details: Mention 100 HP / 252 Def / 156 SpD (always heals Skarmory to full from Sturdy, but don't make the main spread 'cause it's mega situational and max SpD is usually better)

It's generally preferable to run Softboiled over Protect because it gives you an immediate form of recovery rather than a two-turn thing, which is much more useful for checking stuff throughout the match. I've slashed TWave in the last slot for the same reasons as on utility, and generally speaking Wish+Heal Bell/Stealth Rock is trying to compress way more into a set than is practical if you are running Wish and just generally reduces the overall consistency of the set. That spread is generally not as good as standard, but it can come in useful very, very rarely if you use Sturdy to take a hit and PHaze a sweeper or smth.

I'm not sure about Soft-Boiled tbh. I'll leave this decision to QC, but Protect should AT LEAST be slashed, since running double recovery can often result in a wasted moveslot. About the spread, as I stated above, the conception that max SpD is better is untrue, but I can see the point in varying your HP EVs on this set so it always tops of all of your pokemon to 100% again.

Chansey without Stealth Rock is a lot more passive than even the set we're all used to, so I generally advice against it and would leave SR as the main option in the last slot with everything else slashed.

---

Thanks a lot for your input though!

Edit: I actually had TWave slashed in the second set, no idea why I forgot to add it in the first one... it's done now

 

[NVT_Sart]

I added several small notes to the OP in RED after Martin's post

 

[Lemonade]

don't use wincon, you are going for "sweeper"

wrote this elsewhere but still mostly relevant here

Why wincon / win condition and not sweeper? This isn't a battle commentary where you are explaining how to create a specific situation for Bisharp to sweep (ex weakening check to x% so Bisharp KOes them without taking damage and thus can survive another attack and KO that mon etc.). Basically what I'm getting at is calling a Pokemon itself a "win condition" is a misuse of the word "condition", and I know you guys are considering your position in the match or all the factors involved in actually winning with the given Pokemon, but newer players tend to pick up this terminology without considering "winning" (ie using it interchangeably with sweeper).

(Examples: Fire Emblem, FF Tactics victory conditions: defeat all enemies, defeat the leader, survive for x turns--all these are based on the state of the game. YGO: reducing opp to 0 LP, having Exodia in your hand, drawing any number of cards that enables you to get Magical Scientist and Catapult Turtle out on the first turn, etc. Basically any game that has defined "winning").

Edit: Here's something else I thought of about why you should care regarding new players and such. Since we're all competitive players, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say we would rather have good discussion. So let's say there's a game on stours and peeps are in the lobby. Someone says "What's player X's wincon?" From a rando, would you rather hear "Clefable because it has good defense and can set up Calm Mind" or "Clefable completely wrecks this team cuz all X needs to do is get Pokemon A down to 60% and it can't stop Clef anymore". Definitely the second right? It shows they have at least grasped the basics of each team, and this type of thinking gives them a tool to improve on their own--good for competitive environment.

Problem is right now new players are going to answer the first because that is the most prevalent way people use "wincon". Bad cuz it offers nothing to the battle discussion. ex from OU forum

it starts using Bulk Up to patch its low atk and makes it have a good amount of def and spD, being a dangerous win condition late game

A new player reading this will probably say "Talonflame cuz Bulk Up boosts its attack and defense" instead of "Talonflame cuz if it gets a Bulk Up vs Clef lategame, nothing can stop it", when talking about an actual match.

Ideally people start only using "wincon" in regards to battles, so that when anyone hears the term, they also hear how people assess both sides (teams and position) in regards to actually winning.

 

[NVT_Sart]

don't use wincon, you are going for "sweeper"

wrote this elsewhere but still mostly relevant here

Why wincon / win condition and not sweeper? This isn't a battle commentary where you are explaining how to create a specific situation for Bisharp to sweep (ex weakening check to x% so Bisharp KOes them without taking damage and thus can survive another attack and KO that mon etc.). Basically what I'm getting at is calling a Pokemon itself a "win condition" is a misuse of the word "condition", and I know you guys are considering your position in the match or all the factors involved in actually winning with the given Pokemon, but newer players tend to pick up this terminology without considering "winning" (ie using it interchangeably with sweeper).

(Examples: Fire Emblem, FF Tactics victory conditions: defeat all enemies, defeat the leader, survive for x turns--all these are based on the state of the game. YGO: reducing opp to 0 LP, having Exodia in your hand, drawing any number of cards that enables you to get Magical Scientist and Catapult Turtle out on the first turn, etc. Basically any game that has defined "winning").

Edit: Here's something else I thought of about why you should care regarding new players and such. Since we're all competitive players, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say we would rather have good discussion. So let's say there's a game on stours and peeps are in the lobby. Someone says "What's player X's wincon?" From a rando, would you rather hear "Clefable because it has good defense and can set up Calm Mind" or "Clefable completely wrecks this team cuz all X needs to do is get Pokemon A down to 60% and it can't stop Clef anymore". Definitely the second right? It shows they have at least grasped the basics of each team, and this type of thinking gives them a tool to improve on their own--good for competitive environment.

Problem is right now new players are going to answer the first because that is the most prevalent way people use "wincon". Bad cuz it offers nothing to the battle discussion. ex from OU forum
A new player reading this will probably say "Talonflame cuz Bulk Up boosts its attack and defense" instead of "Talonflame cuz if it gets a Bulk Up vs Clef lategame, nothing can stop it", when talking about an actual match.

Ideally people start only using "wincon" in regards to battles, so that when anyone hears the term, they also hear how people assess both sides (teams and position) in regards to actually winning.

Hey, yeah I know, this is just for the bullet point format so people from the QC can give their go :) Don't worry, I still have a fully written version with "correct" terms saved, but thank you! :D

Edit: Changed it already anyways, just so this is not a bad example for others

 

[NVT_Sart]

Replaced the word "wincon" with "sweeper" in BLUE after lemonade's post

 

[UltiMario]

+3 252+ SpA Xurkitree Gigavolt Havoc vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 616-726 (87.6 - 103.2%)
+3 252+ SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 318-375 (45.1 - 53.2%)
vs
+3 252+ SpA Xurkitree Gigavolt Havoc vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 495-583 (77.1 - 90.8%)
+3 252+ SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 255-301 (39.7 - 46.8%)

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 257-304 (36.5 - 43.2%)
4+ Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 161-190 (22.9 - 27%)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Chansey: 385-455 (54.7 - 64.7%)
vs
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 208-247 (32.3 - 38.4%)
4+ Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 161-190 (25 - 29.5%)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 309-367 (48.1 - 57.1%)

4HP/252Def/252SpD Chansey isn't about miles, it's about inches. Chansey is not some absolute wall that is totally immune to all special threats, and can very realistically be broken by attackers like Landorus as it's a lot easier to score kills on the special side vs phys def Chansey. If you're running Chansey, it's on Stall to begin with, where you're running physical walls to give Chansey the breathing room to not need her physical side numbers to be as good. Chansey, on the other hand, IS your Special breathing room. Stall simply benefits more from having a Pokemon with greater overall bulk, and greatly enjoys Chansey being a counter to most Lando-I sets.

I don't object to mentioning the other set in the analysis, but 4HP/252Def/252SpD is absolutely the main spread. You can for the most part play around mixed attackers and trappers in ways that are more overall effective than running max def Chansey, so simply slotting those roles elsewhere in your team will usually be superior to lowering Chansey's overall bulk in an attempt to combat it.

 

[NVT_Sart]

Calcs

4HP/252Def/252SpD Chansey isn't about miles, it's about inches. Chansey is not some absolute wall that is totally immune to all special threats, and can very realistically be broken by attackers like Landorus as it's a lot easier to score kills on the special side vs phys def Chansey. If you're running Chansey, it's on Stall to begin with, where you're running physical walls to give Chansey the breathing room to not need her physical side numbers to be as good. Chansey, on the other hand, IS your Special breathing room. Stall simply benefits more from having a Pokemon with greater overall bulk, and greatly enjoys Chansey being a counter to most Lando-I sets.

I don't object to mentioning the other set in the analysis, but 4HP/252Def/252SpD is absolutely the main spread. You can for the most part play around mixed attackers and trappers in ways that are more overall effective than running max def Chansey, so simply slotting those roles elsewhere in your team will usually be superior to lowering Chansey's overall bulk in an attempt to combat it.

I know those calcs, but they don't matter, since with Knock Off available to Lando, and Tail Glow to Xurkitree, there is no way I'm using Chansey as my main counter to those 2 anyways

 

[UltiMario]

I know those calcs, but they don't matter, since with Knock Off available to Lando, and Tail Glow to Xurkitree, there is no way I'm using Chansey as my main counter to those 2 anyways

Please do note these are already threats where you have an extremely limited pool available to keep them in check for stall and you're passing up one of your easiest opportunities to do so by using 248 HP Chansey. Yes, you can use 248 HP Chansey with like Mantine + Duggy, and that's fine, but I believe the flexibility created by 252 SpD Chansey is overall more important.

How about this, let's look at it the other way. Can you back up your statement? What Pokemon that are currently large threats to stall are easier to keep in check with 248 HP Chansey? You argued Pursuit, but we have a lot less Pursuit going around than in ORAS where people preferred the 252 SpD spread. Which mixed attackers would stall prefer Chansey to be able to beat that it can only keep in check with 248 HP? What teamslots can you save by running 248 HP Chansey?

"It gives Chansey better physical bulk" isn't an argument, this isn't about Chansey. This is about the stall team. There's a reason 252 SpD has been the standard for a while, and if something changed in SM to not make that the case, I'd like to see calcs to prove it, because with the added threatlist from SM the only thing I see are more and more reasons to run 252 SpD. The only thing I can even think of off the top of my head is Lele Psyshock, and even that only buffers you against the set that's the least threat to stall anyways (Scarf) since LO and Specs blast through 248 HP Chansey regardless.

Again, feel free to prove me wrong, but have calcs of relevant mons in that meta that Chansey should be used to counter to back it up.

 

[NVT_Sart]

Please do note these are already threats where you have an extremely limited pool available to keep them in check for stall and you're passing up one of your easiest opportunities to do so by using 248 HP Chansey. Yes, you can use 248 HP Chansey with like Mantine + Duggy, and that's fine, but I believe the flexibility created by 252 SpD Chansey is overall more important.

How about this, let's look at it the other way. Can you back up your statement? What Pokemon that are currently large threats to stall are easier to keep in check with 248 HP Chansey? You argued Pursuit, but we have a lot less Pursuit going around than in ORAS where people preferred the 252 SpD spread. Which mixed attackers would stall prefer Chansey to be able to beat that it can only keep in check with 248 HP? What teamslots can you save by running 248 HP Chansey?

"It gives Chansey better physical bulk" isn't an argument, this isn't about Chansey. This is about the stall team. There's a reason 252 SpD has been the standard for a while, and if something changed in SM to not make that the case, I'd like to see calcs to prove it, because with the added threatlist from SM the only thing I see are more and more reasons to run 252 SpD. The only thing I can even think of off the top of my head is Lele Psyshock, and even that only buffers you against the set that's the least threat to stall anyways (Scarf) since LO and Specs blast through 248 HP Chansey regardless.

Again, feel free to prove me wrong, but have calcs of relevant mons in that meta that Chansey should be used to counter to back it up.

That's the point: I don't have to. None of the Pokemon Chansey is used to check/counter, force Chansey to run 252 SpD to check/counter them. So why would it be on me to look for Pokemon that ABRs/my spread is better against? Open the pokedex, pick a random Pokemon. Is it one Chansey is supposed to check? Then this spread will be enough to do so. Sure, more special def lets it take even less damage... but why? It does what it is supposed to do with 8 SpD, why waste more EVs on it? You don't run 252 Spe on a CB TTar either, when 156 is enough.

Also the "argument" of "[...] has been standard for a while" is a pretty... desperate... one:

- something being "standard", or an opinion being shared by many, doesn't automatically validate it.
- top player=/=top theorycrafter and vice versa. While you could turn this around, saying just because ABR kept using a spread doesn't make it right, I gave you logical reasons backing it up, while your statement is based on Pokemon that are not on the list of threats Chansey needs to handle.
- just because something has been used throughout gen 6 doesn't validate it either, we are talking about a metagame and generation that only near the end understood the strength of RD Manaphy, ScoliPass and suspect-banned M-Sab what... 2 weeks before gen 7?

I'm not here to start any arguments, but before calling someone out, have the arguments and proof to give it any form of ground to base your accusations on.

 

[PK Gaming]

HmmmMmmmmmmmmMmmmmrghhhhh

On the one hand, 252 HP / 252 Def is definitely less efficient than 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD. We're looking at a pretty small drop in Pursuit damage (41.4 - 49%) vs (45.4 - 53.7%)

On the other hand, the drop in physical damage via the first spread is more relevant than the drop in special damage via the 2nd. Every little bit damage of extra damage against Chansey on the physical side is important because the fastest and most efficient way of KOing is by targeting its physical defense. If it's taking less damage from Pursuit on the switch, that means it can come in check things easier.

It also avoids some key 2HKOes with the first spread.

For example, Tyranitar struggles to 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Def Chansey without rocks (252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-345 (41.4 - 49%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage)

But it has a much higher chance of doing so against 4 HP / 252 Def Chansey (252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-345 (45.4 - 53.7%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm)

Same idea with Specs Latios. The former spread always lets it avoid the 2HKO from Specs Psyshock after Stealth Rock damage (252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 261-307 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock) while the latter set does not (252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 261-307 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)

Considering that most of the time, stall games are literally decided when Chansey goes down, I think ensuring its as powerful on the physical (ie vulnerable) side is more important than running a spread that's technically more efficient. I'm inclined to agree with NVT_Start on this one.

 

[NVT_Sart]

How about we find a middle way?

I'll leave the spread I used in the sets for now, unless the QC team tells me not to, BUT I'm going to add PK Gaming 's argumentation coupled with the mention of running 4 HP/252 SpD to the set details as an option?

I'd still leave the max HP version as the only set for Wish passing though, because of the massive Wishes you are actually passing with it.

Is that fine for you UltiMario Martin ?

 

[UltiMario]

So I actually decided to go back into old Chansey threads and see how this decision was made before.

To my surprise, it wasn't. Turns out it's been maybe 5 years since someone seriously analyzed Chansey's spread for an analysis. There was only some talk of a spread that might be more "efficient" than max HP or SpD, but nobody actually put in the effort to do calcs. So I decided to do some. I don't like using Psyshock as a means to measure Chansey's bulk, but since apparently this is what everyone else prefers, I decided to do calcs on this. The results are in, I was able to find a spread that avoids 2HKOs from major Psyshocks while maximizing SpD.

And that spread is....

244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD

This looks asinine but you actually reduce the amount of damage you take from Xurkitree by like 2 with the extra point of SpD without impacting other calcs. 702 HP isn't divisible by 8/16 so you don't lose anything as far as rocks/poison/burn goes, and you don't lose a point of healing on Softboiled. It's actually just better.

 

[NVT_Sart]

post

Now won't you look at that oO

This is actually a fair point, I just went through all the calcs for Hazards + the matchups we talked about in this thread (minus Lando, because still, Knock Off), and THESE are the results:

show

703/8=87,875
703-87=616
616-(703/8)=528,125

702/8=87,75
702-87=615
615-(702/8)=527,25

703/16=43,9375
703-43=660
660-(703/16)=616,0625

702/16=43,875
702-43=659
659-(702/16)=615,125

Specs Latios (Soul Dew and Life Orb result in less damage)

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 261-307 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Scarf Lele (Specs rips Chansey apart no matter what)

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 286-337 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Lefties/Timid Xurkitree with 1 TG boost (assuming that's the go-to set?)

+3 252 SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 288-340 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Lefties/Modest Xurkitree with 1 TG boost (in case people take the speed drop?)

+3 252+ SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 316-373 (45 - 53.1%) -- 31.6% chance to 2HKO

CB TTar

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-345 (41.5 - 49.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 584-688 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Out of all those the only potentially dangerous one is +3 Modest Xurkitree (apart from specs lele, but yeah if that runs Psyshock over Psychic you want to click X anyways), and I'm not even sure if Modest over Timid is the go-to set for it.

So you're 100% right, the 244/252/12 spread you mentioned is indeed the most optimized one. Thanks a lot for taking your time to go through the old threads to find it! Will edit the OP now

 

[NVT_Sart]

Alright, replaced my EV spread with the EVEN MORE OPTIMIZED one we worked out here, in GREEN . Thanks again for the help everyone, and I think this analysis is finally completed and ready for the QC team (if they ever start looking into the low priority mons ;D )

 

[NVT_Sart]

Re-wrote every bullet, removed my changelog and the colors. Thread is now 100% QC-ready Hootie

 

[p2]

- Chansey has been an OU staple since her introduction

should clarify that its eviolites introduction that made chansey good and knocked blissey down from being the best special wall in the game

[SET] <this tag just needs to say SET, it's not named after anything

name: Utility
move 1: Soft-Boiled
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Thunder Wave
move 4: Heal Bell
item: Eviolite
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD

This is what I think the set move order should look like, I can't imagine using chansey without heal bell/aroma and also just mention 1 of them since the difference between them is almost nothing

toxic and thunder wave should have their own bullets, just quickly outline their advantages/disadvantages

in usage tips throw in a mention of avoiding knock off at all costs because chansey struggles so much without its evio

i am also not fond of chansey as a wish user, i don't think its particularly good and would rather use alomomola if i wanted something to pass big wishes

chanseys other options are really limited too, i don't recommend using offensive moves at all because chansey just won't deal enough damage to make it worth considering. throw in counter in oo because its nice option that messes with physical attackers

1/3 after this is implemented

 

[NVT_Sart]

- Chansey has been an OU staple since her introduction

should clarify that its eviolites introduction that made chansey good and knocked blissey down from being the best special wall in the game

[SET] <this tag just needs to say SET, it's not named after anything

name: Utility
move 1: Soft-Boiled
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Thunder Wave
move 4: Heal Bell
item: Eviolite
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD

This is what I think the set move order should look like, I can't imagine using chansey without heal bell/aroma and also just mention 1 of them since the difference between them is almost nothing

toxic and thunder wave should have their own bullets, just quickly outline their advantages/disadvantages

in usage tips throw in a mention of avoiding knock off at all costs because chansey struggles so much without its evio

i am also not fond of chansey as a wish user, i don't think its particularly good and would rather use alomomola if i wanted something to pass big wishes

chanseys other options are really limited too, i don't recommend using offensive moves at all because chansey just won't deal enough damage to make it worth considering. throw in counter in oo because its nice option that messes with physical attackers

1/3 after this is implemented

Done and thank you!

Edit: According to our conversation on Discord, I left the Wish set in the analysis for now, will only remove it if other QC members demand it to

 

[Nedor]

moves (utility)

small nitpick; instead of saying stealth rock are a great asset because a lot of stuff is forced out, you can say that it finds many opportunities to set up stealth rock in a game, which is useful for the stall teams chansey finds herself on.
set details (utility)

albeit obvious, mention that eviolite helps chansey round out its bulk and take hits well on both sides of the spectrum. you can fit in one of the points that a bold nature helps chansey out w/ physical attackers considering its already massive special bulk.

usage tips (utility)

pretty obvious but mention that a player should make an effort to keep chansey healthy throughout the match in order to be capable of coming into threats, especially if some sets on the opponent's team aren't revealed.

team options (utility)

when you say offensive sweeper or revenge killer, give a specific example. band weavile is capable of pursuit trapping certain threats to stall teams.

set (wishpasser)

as a slot is taken through wish, i'm not too confident in slashing stealth rock first considering the importance of status (not saying hazards aren't important), it just seems like a very restricted moveset to me. if anything, i'd just make a mention of rocks in the moves section.

moves (wishpasser)

wish isn't always used over soft-boiled necessarily as they can be used together, just mention that wish is utilized to restore teammate's hp greatly considering chansey's hp stat. protect has the added bonus of punishing high jump kick's from pheromosa which can be useful. i disagree that soft-boiled is matchup dependent considering that it does not take 2 turns like wish + tect to heal up which the opponent can take advantage of. please mention the usefulness of the moves you have slashed in slot 4, it is important in this section.

set details (wishpasser)

you still have to go through all of the set details (but possibly with different wording, gp can help you with that) even though you did it in the utility variant. if someone is looking through this chansey analysis and needs this specific set, they will need to read set details as well.

usage tips / team options (wishpasser)

^^^

checks / counters

mega sableye should be clearly mentioned cause it completely shuts chansey down.

========

the third qc can decide on the final analysis spread because different people have different opinions on it. fuk chansey but good overall work, NVT_Sart

2/3 when done

 

[NVT_Sart]

moves (utility)

small nitpick; instead of saying stealth rock are a great asset because a lot of stuff is forced out, you can say that it finds many opportunities to set up stealth rock in a game, which is useful for the stall teams chansey finds herself on.
set details (utility)

albeit obvious, mention that eviolite helps chansey round out its bulk and take hits well on both sides of the spectrum. you can fit in one of the points that a bold nature helps chansey out w/ physical attackers considering its already massive special bulk.

usage tips (utility)

pretty obvious but mention that a player should make an effort to keep chansey healthy throughout the match in order to be capable of coming into threats, especially if some sets on the opponent's team aren't revealed.

team options (utility)

when you say offensive sweeper or revenge killer, give a specific example. band weavile is capable of pursuit trapping certain threats to stall teams.

set (wishpasser)

as a slot is taken through wish, i'm not too confident in slashing stealth rock first considering the importance of status (not saying hazards aren't important), it just seems like a very restricted moveset to me. if anything, i'd just make a mention of rocks in the moves section.

moves (wishpasser)

wish isn't always used over soft-boiled necessarily as they can be used together, just mention that wish is utilized to restore teammate's hp greatly considering chansey's hp stat. protect has the added bonus of punishing high jump kick's from pheromosa which can be useful. i disagree that soft-boiled is matchup dependent considering that it does not take 2 turns like wish + tect to heal up which the opponent can take advantage of. please mention the usefulness of the moves you have slashed in slot 4, it is important in this section.

set details (wishpasser)

you still have to go through all of the set details (but possibly with different wording, gp can help you with that) even though you did it in the utility variant. if someone is looking through this chansey analysis and needs this specific set, they will need to read set details as well.

usage tips / team options (wishpasser)

^^^

checks / counters

mega sableye should be clearly mentioned cause it completely shuts chansey down.

========

the third qc can decide on the final analysis spread because different people have different opinions on it. fuk chansey but good overall work, NVT_Sart

2/3 when done

Edited in all of the changes except for one: Instead of just mentioning Stealth Rock in the moves section, I moved it from the first Slash to the third (only before TWave now), to show it is less important/useful/easy to abuse on this set.

Also edited out the paragraph where I compared Aromatherapy and Heal Bell, since I forgot to do that after P2 asked me to decide on ONE for the set.

Thanks a lot for the QC, and I'm now ready for the third and last one :)