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Charizard Y
- Thread starter Subject 18
- Start date
added.
Expand on your overview a bit:
1st set
Dragon Pulse's main targets are Lati@s, Garchomp, and Mega Char X, so mention all of those
Mention that SolarBeam also covers Rock-types such as Terrakion and Tyranitar (only when you MEvolve)
Put more stuff in set details, such as OHKO/2HKOes granted by the Mild / Modest nature and opponents outspeed with Hasty / Timid
In the usgae tips, obviously mention that its main role is this of a wallbreaker. Also, mention that when MEvolving, you have the option of heating Ttar switch-ins with SolarBeam, as MEvolving happens after switching, and so Drought will prevail over Sand Stream.
Add offensive Pokemon that enjoy its wallbreaking support, aka good cleaners.
Checks and Counters
All Goodra sets are good checks to Mega Char Y, not just AV.
SpD Ttar in general is also a good check to it, not just AV sets.
Terrakion doesn't need Scarf to be a check, nor does Garchomp.
Add Mega Char X, especially those with Roost.
Add Snorlax.
Also, SpD Talonflame and SpD Moltres.
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Not so sure about the second set, so i would like some opinions from the QC team about it. Is it good or is it outclassed by the first set? Does Flare Blitz deserve a main set instead or just an AC mention for the last slot of the first set?
- Drought provides great team support
- Relatively physically frail with lots of common weaknesses, so everything faster and most priority users fuck it up
- Can go mixed
1st set
Dragon Pulse's main targets are Lati@s, Garchomp, and Mega Char X, so mention all of those
Mention that SolarBeam also covers Rock-types such as Terrakion and Tyranitar (only when you MEvolve)
Put more stuff in set details, such as OHKO/2HKOes granted by the Mild / Modest nature and opponents outspeed with Hasty / Timid
In the usgae tips, obviously mention that its main role is this of a wallbreaker. Also, mention that when MEvolving, you have the option of heating Ttar switch-ins with SolarBeam, as MEvolving happens after switching, and so Drought will prevail over Sand Stream.
Add offensive Pokemon that enjoy its wallbreaking support, aka good cleaners.
Checks and Counters
All Goodra sets are good checks to Mega Char Y, not just AV.
SpD Ttar in general is also a good check to it, not just AV sets.
Terrakion doesn't need Scarf to be a check, nor does Garchomp.
Add Mega Char X, especially those with Roost.
Add Snorlax.
Also, SpD Talonflame and SpD Moltres.
-----------------------------
Not so sure about the second set, so i would like some opinions from the QC team about it. Is it good or is it outclassed by the first set? Does Flare Blitz deserve a main set instead or just an AC mention for the last slot of the first set?
I talked things over with PK Gaming, and we would like the first set to look like this:
name: Mega Charizard-Y
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Earthquake / Focus Blast
move 4: Dragon Pulse / Roost
ability: Blaze
item: Charizadite-Y
nature: Hasty / Timid
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Set Details mention: Flamethrower in the first slot -- even with its lower base power, it still hits very hard in the sun, and has perfect accuracy. However, Fire Blast is still mostly superior due to its ability to nearly always OHKO Landorus-T.
Earthquake is slashed first in the third slot in order to give Charizard-Y the option of hitting Heatran for roughly three fourths of his health with perfect accuracy. Focus Blast compromises accuracy in order to hit Tyranitar for significantly more damage, and also allows him to immediately hit Balloon Heatran hard. Dragon Pulse is listed as the first slash in the fourth slot because it gives Charizard-Y a method of hitting Dragon-types, who would resist his other moves, super effectively. Roost, on the other hand, gives Charizard-Y reliable recovery, and can be effective on teams that have a method of trapping Lati@s and Goodra. A Hasty nature should be used with Earthquake and a Timid nature should be used with Focus Blast.
Additionally, I spoke with some other QC members, and we believe the second set compromises Charizard-Y's sheer damage output in order to lure in and defeat two seldom seen Special walls - Chansey and Blissey. Even in the scenario that he does kill them with Flare Blitz, he also effectively kills himself, because Flare Blitz inflicts an enormous amount of recoil. As a result, we would like to see it removed unless anyone has a really good reason for keeping it.
name: Mega Charizard-Y
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Earthquake / Focus Blast
move 4: Dragon Pulse / Roost
ability: Blaze
item: Charizadite-Y
nature: Hasty / Timid
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Set Details mention: Flamethrower in the first slot -- even with its lower base power, it still hits very hard in the sun, and has perfect accuracy. However, Fire Blast is still mostly superior due to its ability to nearly always OHKO Landorus-T.
Earthquake is slashed first in the third slot in order to give Charizard-Y the option of hitting Heatran for roughly three fourths of his health with perfect accuracy. Focus Blast compromises accuracy in order to hit Tyranitar for significantly more damage, and also allows him to immediately hit Balloon Heatran hard. Dragon Pulse is listed as the first slash in the fourth slot because it gives Charizard-Y a method of hitting Dragon-types, who would resist his other moves, super effectively. Roost, on the other hand, gives Charizard-Y reliable recovery, and can be effective on teams that have a method of trapping Lati@s and Goodra. A Hasty nature should be used with Earthquake and a Timid nature should be used with Focus Blast.
Additionally, I spoke with some other QC members, and we believe the second set compromises Charizard-Y's sheer damage output in order to lure in and defeat two seldom seen Special walls - Chansey and Blissey. Even in the scenario that he does kill them with Flare Blitz, he also effectively kills himself, because Flare Blitz inflicts an enormous amount of recoil. As a result, we would like to see it removed unless anyone has a really good reason for keeping it.
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No, it's not. Currently, Earthquake is slashed with Roost and Focus Blast is slashed with Dragon Pulse.
It's not a huge change, but still worth mentioning. :P
Half-assed?
I don't see how a Flame Charge set is any different than a boosting set on any other set up sweeper. The only difference is that most sweepers don't set up their own sun and attack with a base 159 stat.
That's the last post i will dedicate to this argument. You want to know why Mega Zard Y is a medicore sweeper atm? Because far better sweepers exist. Mega Lucario, Mega Pinsir, SD Talonflame, DD Mega Zard X, Shift Gear Genesect, DD Dragonite, DD Mega Gyarados, take your pick. Those Pokemon have a combination of power, Speed (not only after setting up, but initial too), and priority, that Mega Zard Y lacks, and is the reason why it's not good at a sweeping role. It's physical bulk is lacking and it doesn't have priority on its own, not to mention that it can't OHKO a lot of offensive Pokemon, so even if it manages to get a Flame Charge boost it's still relatively easy to stop compared to those monsters. It can work if your team really needs a combo of a wallbreaker and sweeper, but 90% of the time you are better off not compromising Mega Char Y's wallbreaking prowess just to get a slim chance of sweeping, which is why it will get a mention in OO, or AC if other QC people think it deserves to be there.
Still disagree, but I agree it doesn't make sense to discuss further in this thread.
Kinda irrelevant but I've been using this specific set a bit lately for some immense wallbreaking purposes:
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 SAtk / 252 Spd / 192 Atk
Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flare Blitz
- Solar Beam
- Earthquake
It's not really all too special but the EV spread is mainly emphasized to have enough SpA to OHKO Landorus-T after Stealth Rock, with the rest being put into physical Attack in order to hit Chansey/Blissey as hard as possible as well as most walls in general with its physical attacks. At the least I think the EV Spread could be mentioned in set options for the mixed set. Solar Beam is for Rotom-W, Jellicent, etc. Just basically set to deal with most dedicated walls in OU that aren't Dragon-types (or Rotom-H).
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 SAtk / 252 Spd / 192 Atk
Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flare Blitz
- Solar Beam
- Earthquake
It's not really all too special but the EV spread is mainly emphasized to have enough SpA to OHKO Landorus-T after Stealth Rock, with the rest being put into physical Attack in order to hit Chansey/Blissey as hard as possible as well as most walls in general with its physical attacks. At the least I think the EV Spread could be mentioned in set options for the mixed set. Solar Beam is for Rotom-W, Jellicent, etc. Just basically set to deal with most dedicated walls in OU that aren't Dragon-types (or Rotom-H).
Curious to how Charizard X with Roost beats Charizard Y considering X can guarantee ohko with Flare Blitz (without rocks and +1 from DD) Which would damage X heavily by recoil. As well as if X is sent after something dies if Y has Dragon Pulse its gonna leave a pretty heavy dent on it.
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 272-320 (91.5 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 272-320 (91.5 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Since it has not been done yet, I would like to remind you to remove the Mixed set for the following reasons:
Pain split after 2 fire blast brings rotom back up from ~11% to 70+%, the next one hits for ~44% at max, leaving you with above 30%, or more if you managed to fish for that miss. After a pain split, you also cut charizard's hp to a little more than 55%, which nets you the ko with volt switch with a bit of satk investment
Would you not want to run solar power as the ability rather than blaze? Mega zard will always outdamage ordinary charizard even with blaze active, unless sun is already up. But in that case, you are better off having the boost from solar power, which activates at all levels of health and on all attacks. Who knows; it might occasionally make a difference.
Problem with Solar Power is that if the sun is already up before you Mega Evolved (i.e. opponent has Sunny Day-ed or Drought-ed), then Solar Power Charizard will have to lose 12% of its health to Solar Power without doing anything, before being able to Mega Evolve next turn.
After I ran a bit of calculations using an arbitrary target, Solar Power Charizard is only 13% stronger than Mega Charizard Y, with the additional 12% recoil. Comparing that to Life Orb's 30% damage and 10% recoil, I'd say that even if the sun is already up, it is still more ideal to MEvo right away, so there is no point to Solar Power.
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I'm surprised Politoed isn't mentioned in Checks & Counters with it neutering Charizard Y's sun.
Well, you can't switch politoed straight in because switching has a higher priority than mega evolving, so rain gets set up before sun. Probably should still be mentioned though.
The thing with sun already being up is that you sometimes won't want to mega evolve immediately, in order to use drought when it runs out. The question is sometimes whether you would rather have 50% power and 12% recoil or nothing. Still, I do see that switching in with sun up could cost you 12% health, so I don't think it's an obvious choice at all.
The thing with sun already being up is that you sometimes won't want to mega evolve immediately, in order to use drought when it runs out. The question is sometimes whether you would rather have 50% power and 12% recoil or nothing. Still, I do see that switching in with sun up could cost you 12% health, so I don't think it's an obvious choice at all.
Why not use Timid / Modest in the 1st set? EQ still does like ~70% to Heatran, and even if you run Hasty / Mild, you can't OHKO him with SR. Also, running Hasty / Mild nature, +1 CB Gene can OHKO you with ES at full health, and Mega-Pinsir can 2HKO you with Quick Attack (in the case it hasn't mega evolved) So I don't think there's a reason to run Hasty / Mild.
Roost + focus blast is so much better than eq/ d pulse on Zard y.
It's bulk is really impressive, and this allows it to switch into scalds and such all day, while also not being basically dead if rocks are up. Also, what is the point of of dragon pulse and eq (Ik they hit dragons and heatran). Latias can stall you out of dragon pulse with decent hp investment (which you should be doing if your using latias) and latios is 2hkoed by fire blast and most lack recovery. Av goodra gives no fucks about d pulse really, while chomp can only switch in once. Meanwhile, eq is literally just for heatran, while focus blast 2hkoes like eq does albeit less reliably, while also hitting rotom outside of sun, ttar (which is huge), terrakion on the switch outside of sun, garchomp outside of sun, and probably some other shit that I'm forgetting. So coverage for like a few mons kinda with d pulse and eq, or coverage on a few mons and recovery and a more beneficial nature. Ezzzz choice IMO.
It's bulk is really impressive, and this allows it to switch into scalds and such all day, while also not being basically dead if rocks are up. Also, what is the point of of dragon pulse and eq (Ik they hit dragons and heatran). Latias can stall you out of dragon pulse with decent hp investment (which you should be doing if your using latias) and latios is 2hkoed by fire blast and most lack recovery. Av goodra gives no fucks about d pulse really, while chomp can only switch in once. Meanwhile, eq is literally just for heatran, while focus blast 2hkoes like eq does albeit less reliably, while also hitting rotom outside of sun, ttar (which is huge), terrakion on the switch outside of sun, garchomp outside of sun, and probably some other shit that I'm forgetting. So coverage for like a few mons kinda with d pulse and eq, or coverage on a few mons and recovery and a more beneficial nature. Ezzzz choice IMO.
I think it should be mentioned somewhere that he makes a pretty decent anti-lead.
He solarbeams rotom-w, fire blasts lando-t (but must scout for scarf), he gives attack boost to genesect so that Thunderbolt only does 55%-65%~ and he can kill genesect, while roosting off the damage later.
I've also seen people run Hp ground for heatran instead. I don't think it's a great idea, but does anyone else want to address that?
He solarbeams rotom-w, fire blasts lando-t (but must scout for scarf), he gives attack boost to genesect so that Thunderbolt only does 55%-65%~ and he can kill genesect, while roosting off the damage later.
I've also seen people run Hp ground for heatran instead. I don't think it's a great idea, but does anyone else want to address that?