Charizard Y is able to easily go mixed with 104 base attack and Earthquake also hits opposing fire types super effectively, which is especially useful when the sun runs out.
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Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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I know zard Y has a decent attack stat but my one has virtually no attack EVs (and 252 special attack Evs) plus you can easily run much more effective earthquake user which I normally do.
Even with only 4 EVs in Attack it still does what it needs to do. It is an equally viable option on Charizard Y as Focus Blast and has 100% accuracy as well.
Eh, I'm not sure I'd say that. The analysis doesn't even have it slashed anymore, and if you read the discussion, you can't really disagree. The mixed set is only listed in "other options," because keeping that special firepower without sacrificing speed or bulk is pretty significant.
I don't think speed is all that important if the sole purpose of your Zard Y is to wall-break, so sacrificing speed wouldn't be so bad in that scenario. Other than that, you'll want to have full access to that base 100 speed if you plan to do anything else.
I'll add that it's sole purpose isn't wallbreaking, it's popular because it's a great mid game wall breaker, AND a late game cleaner that can be used against just about anything but HO. That's why so many people were running timid instead of modest
Bulk is always important for wall breakers. Not deal breaking, but besides raw power, arguably the most important thing (you can argue all day about speed or bulk, but the place for that is in that new speed tier thread, not here). There's a whole bunch of walls that Char can't OHKO, and will probably take a hit from, and being able to take that hit from the typically lower powered walls is important, and perhaps more significant is the ability to survive hits from the faster threats late in the game and OHKO them. Going mixed is an option, but it has a price
I prefer Jolly over Adamant on Charizard X, I find the ability to outspeed/speed tie other base 100s to be very important. Speed is extremely important for a Offensive Dragon Dancer like Charizard X, which is his best and most successful set. But recently, I've been running Adamant with Outrage, the ability to 2 shot a supposed "Hard Counter" like Quagsire to be a unique asset.
Also, the Smash Bros Nintendo Direct guys :)
Also, the Smash Bros Nintendo Direct guys :)
As of late, people have been saying that nothing is able to come in on +1 charizard x and deal with it. I made it my goal to figure that out, and I have found a pretty niche pokemon: rhyperior. A 252 HP / 252+ Def set is viable. At +2, adamant dragon claw fails to 2HKO. Solid rock lowers EQ's power so much that dragon claw actually does more, and rhyperior resists flare blitz. But wait, there's more! Not only is rhyperior able to tank him like a boss, but an Eq against 4 HP / 0 def with 4 Atk investment deals a massive 88%-106%. Just my 2 cents.
I would still say something like ScarfChomp or Scarf Lando/Lando-T are better at dealing with these guys provided they don't get too many boosts...if that CharX turns out to be a CharY, gg Solarbeam. Ofc if HP Ice is being used you'll still have trouble...these guys are too good haha
Well, rhyperior isn't coming in against an unmarked charizard... Once you find out its char x, then you send it out. Also, I'm willing to bet that rhyperior takes less than 40% from HP Ice. And scarf chomp/lando can't come in safely, and also can't beat char x if its at +2. Another thing, unless you're using earth power lando, you can't kill with any other move.
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Rhyperior and Hippowdon really are some of the only Pokemon that can handle a +1 (note: not +2) CharX. And even then, adamant Outrage does huge amounts of damage.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 258-304 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 276-325 (65.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
No, it's not. You already miss the speedtie vs. Landorus and Garchomp, so running Jolly won't help with that. Most other base 100s can't really hurt CharX, and Pokemon like Kyurem, Hydreigon, and other base 90-99s usually don't run a +Speed nature. The only thing that hurts is being outsped by Excadrill at +1, but that's it.
In return, Adamant can make you get kills like this which a Jolly nature can't do:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 295-348 (97 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 397-468 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
And as you said, it 2HKO's Quag.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 258-304 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 276-325 (65.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
No, it's not. You already miss the speedtie vs. Landorus and Garchomp, so running Jolly won't help with that. Most other base 100s can't really hurt CharX, and Pokemon like Kyurem, Hydreigon, and other base 90-99s usually don't run a +Speed nature. The only thing that hurts is being outsped by Excadrill at +1, but that's it.
In return, Adamant can make you get kills like this which a Jolly nature can't do:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 295-348 (97 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 397-468 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
And as you said, it 2HKO's Quag.
You also outspeed Landorus-T at +1 with Jolly.
Kyurem and Hydreigon often run Scarf sets and will outspeed Adamant CharX even at +1. Other pokemon you're risking being outsped by that could pose a threat against you are Mega Gardevoir, offensive Mew (not common but still there), Entei, Salamence (which can also boost its speed with Dragon Dance or use a Scarf, other Charizard, Manaphy, Staraptor, Mega Medicham, Krookodile, Scarfed Lando-T Porygon-Z, and Scarftom. Running Jolly lets you outspeed some important Pokemon and that cannot be ignored. However, like you and others have mentioned, the power from an Adamant nature allows you to get some kills that you would not get otherwise. Either nature is acceptable.
Scarf Kyu-B is certainly not common, and from my experience neither is Hydreigon. Offensive Mew is extremely irrelevant. Gardevoir is outsped before she Mega Evolves, and same goes to Medicham. Entei can't really do much and is set-up bait, especially if it's locked into a weak move against ZardX like Sacred Fire or ESpeed. Porygon-Z.. well, irrelevant, and I'm assuming that should be running Modest anyway. I know the ones in UU do. Scarf Rotom can't hurt ZardX for much if its Timid and not Modest.
Scarf Lando-T however, is sadly a Pokemon that you lose against if its jolly. Scarf Staraptor also hurts, and always outslowing Timid Manaphy is pretty big too.
Scarf Kyurem and Hydreigon are in fact well-known sets. The Megas are assuming that they are already Mega Evolved and just saying that they MAY pose a threat (same goes for all the others I listed). Entei always runs Stone Edge and is a huge threat to an Adamant Charizard without a Dragon Dance up, Porygon-Z is not as irrelevant as you make it and Choice Specs Porygon-Z will often run a Timid nature. Rotom will hurt Charizard X with Hydro Pump (252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard X: 195-229 (65.6 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and only Outrage will OHKO a Rotom-W uninvested in Defense. I will agree with you about offensive Mew however, as I have only seen two people other than myself using it.
http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-03/moveset/ou-1760.0.txt
Kyurem-B uses Choice Scarf over 11% of the time and Kyurem uses Choice Scarf over 26% of the time.
Choice Scarf Hydreigon is its second-most popular set at over 23% usage.
Modest Porygon-Z is more common than Timid, but Timid still takes up a large amount of the sets and Choice Scarf Porygon-Z is its most common set.
From my experience with Mega Houndoom, it can ohko many Pokemons with its Fire Blast under the Sun. Sun + Solar Power is the same boost as Sun + Helping hand and Zard got about 20 points over Houndoom in Special attack, so yes it should 1hko shitload of Pokemons.
But you won't be able to 1hko Chansey or Blissey.
in the hell fire set for Charizard Y, Dragon Pulse is slashed next to EQ and Roost in the 4th moveslot but is suggested as an alternate for Focus Blast in the description. Should Dragon Pulse be slashed in both movepots 4 and 3. Anyway just looking for an explanation. Personally I run Charizard Y alot and notice that i very rarely actually use Focus Miss because I have other things to deal with Heatran and T Tar and Blobs and because if i miss the first two they can OHKO me with Ancient Power and Stone Edge respectively and you risk getting t waved if you miss vs the blobs. Having Dragon Pulse is nice for taking out Dragonite with SR up and just predicting dragon switches in general but Roost is pretty helpful for getting rid of SR damage but not having either Focus Blast or EQ seems risky. Basically I am trying to decide which two moves out of Focus Blast, Dragon Pulse and Roost to run and want some input, thanks
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You definitely need roost. In case your defogger/spinner was lost Roost helps you regain the health lost to SR.
Personally I've rarely seen Dragon Pulse on Zard Y.
yeah dragon pulse is just there to avoid being setup fodder for dragons, it can be useful but the loss of roost is a big deal so i'm not sure ive been wavering on the decision
Do we have to go over this again?
Let's see.
Entei's only reason to ever be used is to spam Sacred Fire. It being locked (I'm assuming Entei is using it's most viable and only set other than the not-common AV set, which is CB) onto Stone Edge then that's bad for Entei, otherwise, it's extreme set-up bait for CharX. And either way, they'll always tie because Entei is always adamant. Porygon-Z is actually irrelevant so I'll skip it, but I'll give you points for this one, Timid does outspeed. Rotom-W won't outspeed CharX if it's running Modest, and it won't outspeed CharX at +1 if it's a scarf with modest. And no, Outrage at +1 does indeed OHKO all variants of Rotom-W, while only missing a guaranteed OHKO on physically defensive.. which still has a high chance of being OHKO'd:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 295-348 (97 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
(and js: rotom-w normally doesn't have 252/252+, it takes some of both EVs to invest into speed to outrun Jolly Azumarill, so, taking that into account, this is the most absolute relevant calc:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 304-358 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
But I posted the one above for worst case scenarios where rotom-w could be running 252/252+)
Kyurem-B's most common and relevant set rn is mixed, and as you said Scarf is only 11%, so I don't see how that's an issue. It's easy to figure out what set Kyurem is running purely by seeing how much damage the first attack it did made. If it was Outrage/D.Claw and it did a lot then it's band. If it's Substitute, then it's mixed. If you see 10% HP reduction after using a move, it's obviously LO. If it's too weak however, then it's Scarf. And regular Kyurem isn't relevant, but yeah I guess Scarf is its most common set in OU, props to that.
Yeah. Keep in mind that you'll be completely walled by Heatran though.
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