Pokémon Charizard

[dkkc19]

Care to discuss the pros and cons?
As a favor to me, and as yourself as a team builder, please give Char-Y a shot, he's a gem to play with if you give him what he needs

Indeed, Fire Blast makes him a fierce wallbreaker, but Max Speed base 100 is so crowded that his use of that speed is situational. If I ran timid, It would only be to outspeed things like Jolly Max+ Excadrill, which has become mostly obsolete with the popularity spike of adamant Sand Rush variants.

The fact that Zard-Y can derail the standard SandCore (even with a Modest nature) and function as a decently fast wallbreaker/cleaner makes him very valuable these days, you may want to try him out, experience some scathing Fire Blast misses, and let me know if your opinion changes.

While I don't have a certain play style, I never found Zard Y to fit any of my styles. I always preferred Keldeo, Hydreigon (Who sucks this gen in OU) or Gengar (I love the Timid Specs and Life Orb sets) as a hard hitting special attacker. While neither of them hits as hard as Charizad's Fireblast/flamethrower and Solar Beam in the sun, I prefer their coverage and their typing. Zard Y requires a very good support to remove the hazards and doesn't like constant switching in and out. And the other reason, is that I love X so much, that almost everytime I make a new with a Mega Charizard in mind, I forget about Y and pick X. I tried using Y for a Sun team, but Y is a selfish Sun summoner and the likes of Shiftry can't take advantage of it.

Why Timid? X can afford to run Adamant, because it has a way to boost its own speed with Dragon Dance. While both X and Y play different rolls and X needs its speed to sweep, an extra speed is always welcomed. Timid outspeeds non-scarfed Adamant Garchomp. Outspeeds Jolly Mega Garchomp, Modest Keldeo/ Most 100-110 running Modest/Adamant, outruns max Speed Deo-D (Though not sure if anyone uses speed evs on it) Jolly Lucario (Who can 1ohko with Stone Edge/Rock slide if it caries it. And if it was Sword Danced, it can 1hko Zard with Thunder Punch)

Not all of these threats are relevant in OU, and many (if not most) 101-110 Pokemons run Jolly/Timid. Timid is just a safer option. and in reality, when you have 100+BP power attacks and the Sun to boost your fire attacks,you don't really need that 10% of extra power and you can afford to run the safer option of being faster.

I think I should give Y a try. I currently have 4 new teams that I'm playing with, but I should give Zard Y a try when I make new teams.

 

[Yanga]

I don't know weather to run hp ice or dragon pulse on charizard y

 

[RotomPoison]

I don't know weather to run hp ice or dragon pulse on charizard y

HP Ice doesn't do much for it (like Fire Blast actually outdamaging 4x effective HP Ice when it's useful) so stick with Dragon Pulse if you want a reliable way to beat Latios/Larias/Garchomp and the rest, or Roost otherwise

 

[BCE]

am i the only that runs modest 252 hp, 252 sp. atak, 6 sp. def flamethrower/ancient power/ solar beam/ roost ?

 

[GlassGlaceon]

am i the only that runs modest 252 hp, 252 sp. atak, 6 sp. def flamethrower/ancient power/ solar beam/ roost ?

yes

 

[BCE]

rock type is way more easier to hurt neutral/super effective/4x damage than a simple dragon pulse, megazard Y 252 hp is really bulky, he can survive a choice band brave bird from talonflame and ohko back with ancient power and you will see the adversary crying when you gain +1 in all atts =p

 

[GlassGlaceon]

rock type is way more easier to hurt neutral/super effective/4x damage than a simple dragon pulse, megazard Y 252 hp is really bulky, he can survive a choice band brave bird from talonflame and ohko back with ancient power and you will see the adversary crying when you gain +1 in all atts =p

And you'll be crying when you don't get the boosts and have wasted a moveslot on megazard y

 

[BCE]

good luck be walled by heatran while i can kill and get boosts with ancient power =]

 

[GlassGlaceon]

good luck be walled by heatran while i can kill and get boosts with ancient power =]

That doesn't kill tran, it is a minor annoyance to tran, and i'd rather run focus blast or even EQ to hit tran harder than a non-STAB, non-Super Effective move

 

[Tressed]

BCE
Your set really isn't very good. You need Speed if you plan on dealing with most of OU, you're being outrun by +Speed base 60s and neutral base 70s, for crying out loud, and the bulk, while nice, is still messed by SR and that all these things you can't outspeed anymore. Ancientpower is only hitting Talonflame and other Zards harder than sun boosted Fire Blast would, and Talonflame takes enough damage from Fire Blast to 2HKO anyways, you need 20% off of it to start potentially OHKOing. Ancientpower is really gimmicky and I'd only consider it only Heatran because Heatran actually wants Rock coverage. Ancientpower does a solid 15% against Heatran, it'd kill you with Lava Plume before you could do anything slightly significant. Run Earthquake or Focus Blast if you want to kill Heatran.

 

[FuckSeven]

good luck be walled by heatran while i can kill and get boosts with ancient power =]

Oh wow. So much wrong with this post. First of all, even the most standard Zard Y's are not walled by Heatran. You bring up Ancinet Power as if it is actually super effective against Heatran. (Heatran will simply toxic you, set up rocks, roar you out, have a field day really.) and honestly, 252 HP Zard is not viable. It is outsped by things it should never be outsped by (Excadrill is a major one just so you know) and will die before it can do anything. (Rock slide is a guaranteed OHKO.)

 

[SoulRed12]

good luck be walled by heatran while i can kill and get boosts with ancient power =]

Ancient Power is not 100% useless, but as a means of killing heatran, you're MUCH better off running Focus Blast or EQ. As for 252 HP, it means Zard is outsped by things that can OHKO it but that otherwise wouldn't be able to do anything against it, such as Excadrill (with Rock Slide) and Landorus-T (with Stone Edge). The 252 HP doesn't help ZardY survive those moves.

 

[Lolme]

I've got a question that perhaps has already been asked, why isn't Heat Wave ever considered as an option? given that Fire Blast has been nerfed and now you only get +10 bp for -10 accuracy

 

[qsns]

I've got a question that perhaps has already been asked, why isn't Heat Wave ever considered as an option? given that Fire Blast has been nerfed and now you only get +10 bp for -10 accuracy

Heat Wave gets 5 more power for 10 less accuracy than Flamethrower. Not the best option.

 

[Immortal]

When Charizard Y fights heatran the only one that should be afraid of ancient power is the Charizard

 

[BCE]

dear guys, my commentary was about between ancient power x dragon pulse, i personally have 0 interest to make a mixed megazard y to use earthquake and i will never use focus blast with that ridiculous 70% accuracy, i use flamethrower exactly because i lost many fights because fireblast missed, no, never more -90% acc attacks for me.

 

[SoulRed12]

dear guys, my commentary was about between ancient power x dragon pulse, i personally have 0 interest to make a mixed megazard y to use earthquake and i will never use focus blast with that ridiculous 70% accuracy, i use flamethrower exactly because i lost many fights because fireblast missed, no, never more -90% acc attacks for me.

You were talking in the context of using Ancient Power to combat Heatran. We were saying that Ancient Power does nothing to help with Heatran. On the other hand, Earthquake does, even if you give it zero investment:

0- Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 256-304 (66.3 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

No need to run "mixed," you can even keep it Timid and just slap Earthquake on there and you can 2HKO Heatran. Focus blast is also useful though it does miss all the time but even so it actually lets you deal damage to Tyranitar switch ins which people love to do to tank a fire move and change the weather:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 348-412 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If you run Ancient Power instead:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 53-63 (13.7 - 16.3%)

Basically Heatran sets up all over you. Stealth Rocks, Toxic, Substitute, etc. It does whatever it wants. Ancient Power doesn't even break Heatran's sub until you get two boosts, which will probably never happen (getting 2 boosts in 8 attempts is less than 20% chance). In the meantime Heatran is getting leftovers recovery. Not to mention Toxic kills in six turns anyway, or it could just decide to roar you out after you get one boost.

Ancient Power is fine for Talonflame and other Charizards, but leaves you 100% walled by Heatran and Tyranitar. That's not to say Dragon Pulse does any better, but both Dragon Pulse and Ancient Power are only good to deal with very specific threats if your team can already handle things like Heatran and Tyranitar and needs more help with things like Latios and Garchomp.

 

[dkkc19]

Ancient Power is fine for Talonflame and other Charizards, but leaves you 100% walled by Heatran and Tyranitar. That's not to say Dragon Pulse does any better, but both Dragon Pulse and Ancient Power are only good to deal with very specific threats if your team can already handle things like Heatran and Tyranitar and needs more help with things like Latios and Garchomp.

I'm not a fan of Dragon Pulse on Zard Y, Fire Blast in the sun is almost as effective as Dragon Pulse against Garchomp and Latios.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 248-292 (69.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Sun: 180-212 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 200-236 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios in Sun: 144-171 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

Fire Blast, Solar Beam and Roost are a necessity for any Mega Y, and I believe that Focus Blast is a much better as a 3rd coverage option, allowing you to get past Heatran and T-tar who otherwise would wall Charizard Y.

The only real use of Dragon Pulse imo is against Charizard X and Latias.

 

[RotomPoison]

I'm not a fan of Dragon Pulse on Zard Y, Fire Blast in the sun is almost as effective as Dragon Pulse against Garchomp and Latios.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 248-292 (69.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Sun: 180-212 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 200-236 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios in Sun: 144-171 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

Fire Blast, Solar Beam and Roost are a necessity for any Mega Y, and I believe that Focus Blast is a much better as a 3rd coverage option, allowing you to get past Heatran and T-tar who otherwise would wall Charizard Y.

The only real use of Dragon Pulse imo is against Charizard X and Latias.

Technically, it helps a lot against:

- Charizard X
- Latios
- Latias
- Garchomp (yes this is relevant as Dragon Pulse KOs while Fire Blast doesn't)

So it's not total garbage like lolflashcannon Xerneas

 

[SoulRed12]

Dragon Pulse can KO from higher HP (or after some hazards) and has the added bonus of perfect accuracy, which is significant. After all, we all complain about Stone Edge but Fire Blast has the same accuracy now.

 

[RotomPoison]

Dragon Pulse can KO from higher HP (or after some hazards) and has the added bonus of perfect accuracy, which is significant. After all, we all complain about Stone Edge but Fire Blast has the same accuracy now.

No?

Fire Blast = 85
Stone Edge = 80

 

[Salemance]

Dragon Pulse can KO from higher HP (or after some hazards) and has the added bonus of perfect accuracy, which is significant. After all, we all complain about Stone Edge but Fire Blast has the same accuracy now.

5% more, as its better hitting 70% of the time twice in a row compared to 64% of the time twice in a row.

 

[SoulRed12]

No?

Fire Blast = 85
Stone Edge = 80

Weird, could've sworn they reduced the accuracy along with the BP. But still, 5% is hardly much of a difference (people complain when icy wind misses because it's "only 5% chance"), and 15% is still significant, or at least significant enough to present a trade-off.

 

[dkkc19]

Technically, it helps a lot against:

- Charizard X
- Latios
- Latias
- Garchomp (yes this is relevant as Dragon Pulse KOs while Fire Blast doesn't)

So it's not total garbage like lolflashcannon Xerneas

Both attacks are 2hkos against Garchomp and Latios. Focus Blast is a much better option for coverage. If you have someone in your team that can comfortably deal with Heatran and T-tar then you can run Dragon Pulse.

One other thing, you don't really wanna stay against any of those Dragons, and I prefer the chance to burn Garchomp on the switch with Fire Blast/Heat Wave.

 

[dinotrek27]

Hey guys I noticed that Charizard has defog in its movepool do you think it could be a good offensive Defogger, especially Char-X since it takes only X2 from rocks